Should Polyphony Digital and Sony Start Banning Consistently Dirty Drivers From F.I.A. Events?

mirial
It doesn't make sense to try and roll everyone together. It would just be better to break it into the four categories from beginner to elite with the corresponding difficulty of the car category to match which is the usual format in real motorsport.
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That is exactly the same thing I said in different words. It's a game for everyone and everyone will play it so the more serious players should be ranked and separated from the everyday, for fun players. Maybe factoring in total distance driven could be a slightly better way to group newer players in a lobby leaving the people who have driven over 500 miles or 750 kilometers safe from being paired with brand new accounts. (Or whatever distance would be accepted to acknowledge that the user has driven enough to be put in lobbies full of player's who have played for months or even since the games release in some cases). A sort of requirement as a learning curve for new players.

Can we keep the aggressive nouns to a minimum please? I used the word "cheaters" once, sorry, and I've seen some other nouns and don't wish this thread to be deleted. There are a lot of good ideas on here from everyone and if we keep at it, maybe we'll come up with a system the entire community could get behind and possibly get in game. One of the many reasons I joined GT Planet but mainly for clean endurance racing. =) Please and thank you.
 
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The way i see it sony and pd have dropped the ball on this game because of the lack of enforcment of people bending the rules and bending the glitiches for a unfair advantage.

There is huge room for other games to be way better at it and if pd / sony does not get their act together , they will be left behind .
 
The exact reason why I‘m starting on iracing and possibly transitioning to it completely is the lack of consequence against dirty drivers as well as the non-optimal approach to enforce clean driving in the first place in GT Sport. (And then there‘s always the strange penalty system, but no game is perfect...)

I think an additional value that determines overall driving experience should be added when pairing players. Sheer distance driven would be easiest as this value is monitored already. Several categories could be made like 0-1000 km (complete noob), 1001-5000 km (freshman), 5001-15000 km (junior), 150001-40000 km (senior), over 40000 km (graduate). (divide by 1.609 to get the corresponding mileages...)

Would that guarantee cleaner races for the more experiences and possibly sincere drivers? A little bit, I think. Then again, racing in two leagues with guys mainly between 60k and 150k km experience I can say: pigs you‘ll find everywhere...
 
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I have read all these suggestions with a personal interest.
I have had to rebuild my SR at least 8/9 times, I am sick of trying to race not only against unfair drivers, but also against the rediculous penalty system that punishes me for being hit by those same selfish idiots and trying to race with flair and skill, i appreciate this is a games, but some of us take racing seriously, and let's face it GTS is about the best console Racing game out there. With that said PD need to respect the fact that many of us are racers, and deserve to race in fair conditions, otherwise the The Real Driving Simulator might just as well be Super Mario Karts.

So how to fix it.....
1, maybe there should be real performance restricting damage, that only effects the shunter not the shunted, this could be achieved by monitoring braking zonez, you hit someone you stuffed for a lap, if you're hit, your given a time advantage, unless that puts you ahead of another car . Thoughts anyone.

2, make race C, only for those of a high enough DR, and SR combined total, so SR + DR must equal a numeric value, to get in you must race a heat to qualify to race in the actual race C, if you get heavaly penalised, as set out in point 1, you dont get to race in C, unless you race clean in the heat for a set number of times.

The above would weed out the loons, they'll most likely get bored with the hassle of the heat etc, so leaving the decent race to those that want to race not punt.

Finally with out exception they need to stop the SR downgraded, it does nothing to stop the punters so just get rid of it all together

My 2 cents
 
nojgib
@K3Tuning I believe the problem is when you drop back a bit farther because of whatever reason, it is far more difficult to have clean races.
If you are S sportsmanship rating you have a cushion of 20 points. if you are B it is 10. I'd imagine always racing in the S lobby there is minimal contact and you can actually play the game in most cases. Easy to stay in that 20 point window even if you do encounter the occasional incident.
New drivers are EB. 5 races or so earns you D driver rating. When you are a B rating or even a lower A, you start getting matched with the "new drivers" very regularly. Most incidents you receive a sportsmanship reduction for contact even if you did not initiate it so it's near impossible to run a clean race. When you don't qualify to start in the rear of the field and try to work up they block / ram or whatever it takes to keep you behind them. If they do let you pass, it's normally because they want to dive bomb you in the next corner to take you out. Granted there are some new on the track and you just wait for a few turns for them to leave the track on their own. Passing is near impossible on a lot of tracks so you lose DR for finishing toward the back of the pack, on top of losing the SR. Doesn't take long to get matched with more of them because your DR drops even if you are gaining back SR. Then, if you qualify and start up front, you have corner X that you are being punted from behind so you still have to try to work through the field AND it causes SR reduction because - who knows. There are few races I will run because of the problems.

Yes it's a video game, but I guess my point is if they are going to promote this as a real driving experience they should take the idiots out of the mix. I would guess it's near impossible to have a fool proof penalty or matching system no matter how much you tweak it. Easiest solution is give them their own "dirty" lobby. That would probably get rid of half the problem.
I still like the second lobby idea though, when I choose "Race A" I go to another screen asking me if I want Race 1A with no damage or Race 2A with heavy damage, or simply have both selections on the first screen. Leave the latter locked for new drivers. After you reach - enter whatever achievement here - the second selection becomes available. They already do this with the "Top 24" in Sport mode, and in the Driving School section also. Driving school would be a great way to earn the right to race with damage. The coding needed to make that happen should be minimal, and not many are going to spend an hour or whatever in driving school every time a new account is created just to enter a few races before being kicked again.
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No words needed 👍
 
QTip8329Wags
Thank you for reading everyone's ideas.
Thank you! I recently uploaded mine. I've seen people use numbers but never knew how they got them. This explains a lot! I lost 20,000+ DR in a single race... D=
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You should click the ? below your SR Profile History on Kudosprime.
A low SR score can limit the DR Class, and even reset the DR score to predefined values (7000 pts if SR dive below 5, 20,000 pts below 15 and 50,000 pts below 30.
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So I think your DR was reset to the 20,000 pts when your SR dropped to D.
 
So it's worth that small DR hit you get by backing out of a race than putting up with constant contact for the length of an F.I.A. race and losing SR beyond belief. I'll start doing that in extreme situations cause I really miss running in the top 100 against competitive but always clean players.
 
Imari
On PS2? That was a long time ago, before online console gaming was really a thing. I'd hesitate before taking hints from an online game that old.

It's an option, but a fairly drastic one. It's in the same boat as banning by console or PS Plus, but if anything less effective. I think before you started doing any of those options you'd want to communicate first what was a bannable offense quite clearly. Perhaps establish a range of warnings and temporary bans before perma-banning their disc.

People get instant perma-banned for hacking in stuff like Overwatch, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about "dirty" driving, which has a pretty large range depending on who you talk to. Some of these players may legitimately think that what they're doing is legit, and some may simply lack the car control to do better.

I was playing a little Forza online tonight, and while there were a few taps that I thought were probably intentional, I'd say that the vast majority of contact was not. Most people just aren't really that good at driving games. Should they get a ban for that? I'd say probably not, but you may disagree.



Shadow banning means what exactly in this particular circumstance? They can race but they're a permanent ghost?

People are going to notice if they can't interact fairly quickly. Shadow bans work on social media because it's not immediately apparent to the user that they're not visible to other people. It's going to be pretty obvious in a game.



You can push the "reply" button in the bottom right corner of the post, and it will quote it for you to reply to. It will also notify the person you quoted that you've replied to their post.



I've observed that people new to iRacing tend to have the same problems. You start in Rookie, and to get out of Rookie you have to gain a certain amount of Safety Rating. And you have to gain that Safety Rating in what is probably the worst environment possible, new drivers and other people who haven't been able to get out of Rookie.

Some people will assert till they're blue in the face that it's impossible or needlessly difficult to get out, despite there being adequate evidence that if you put a driver with a high Safety Rating in Rookie they will be out in no time flat. It's about mindset. If you have a low Safety Rating, then getting that up is your number one goal. Winning races is not. The people stuck in Rookie are inevitably those who focus on racing and winning, rather than simply boosting their Safety Rating.

Winning races in low Safety Rating rooms is all about luck and nothing to do with skill, so really you want to be out of there quick smart to a place where your skill can actually matter. So if you have to sacrifice some places during the race to do so, then that's ultimately to your benefit. If you need trundle around in last for a couple of races to get back in the clean rooms, then do that. Yes, it feels bad, but the reality is that even if you're driving at the back there's enough morons out there that they'll spin off and trash themselves. You likely finish mid-pack even if you never pass anyone in anger on track.

It's about learning to play the long game, rather than expecting to be able to get back all your ratings as well as win the race. Pick what you want, and drive accordingly.

Some people find this difficult. Others find it impossible. Some people simply cannot deal with the idea of not trying their utmost to win every single race, every single second they're on the track. While it makes for great movies, it does not make for great race drivers. Great race drivers know when to plan and drive for future success.
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I just want to thank you again for posting this, after reading it I was back to SR S and having fun again in just 4 races. Thanks very much for the kick in the butt. :)
 
Knightsabre13
I have read all these suggestions with a personal interest.
I have had to rebuild my SR at least 8/9 times, I am sick of trying to race not only against unfair drivers, but also against the rediculous penalty system that punishes me for being hit by those same selfish idiots and trying to race with flair and skill, i appreciate this is a games, but some of us take racing seriously, and let's face it GTS is about the best console Racing game out there. With that said PD need to respect the fact that many of us are racers, and deserve to race in fair conditions, otherwise the The Real Driving Simulator might just as well be Super Mario Karts.

So how to fix it.....
1, maybe there should be real performance restricting damage, that only effects the shunter not the shunted, this could be achieved by monitoring braking zonez, you hit someone you stuffed for a lap, if you're hit, your given a time advantage, unless that puts you ahead of another car . Thoughts anyone.

2, make race C, only for those of a high enough DR, and SR combined total, so SR + DR must equal a numeric value, to get in you must race a heat to qualify to race in the actual race C, if you get heavaly penalised, as set out in point 1, you dont get to race in C, unless you race clean in the heat for a set number of times.

The above would weed out the loons, they'll most likely get bored with the hassle of the heat etc, so leaving the decent race to those that want to race not punt.

Finally with out exception they need to stop the SR downgraded, it does nothing to stop the punters so just get rid of it all together

My 2 cents
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Suggestion #1 is a great idea but I think if PD could accurately determine who is at fault they could fix the penalty system. I agree something needs to be done to those dirty drivers who will tank their SR and destroy your race and SR. PD has to find something that will hurt them more than just an SR and possible DR reset because we can see this clearly does not work. I think the report function could work if selected higher classed drivers could review replays and maybe pass on obvious situations to someone at PD or someone on the behalf of PD where there was a cheater or intentional dirty driver who could ban a PS4 deck from participating in sport mode races for a certain amount of time. Each subsequent incident could call for a longer suspension. Some people put far too much effort into trying to race properly to have their SR/DR destroyed by someone who thinks its fun to cause havoc. It also keeps a lot of racers away from the daily races, I think it hurts sport mode participation dramatically.
 
I read this the other day , and thought it could go here because i suggested consoles should get banned.

Heres proof the devs and countries are taking cheating serious .



Thinking about a video game console mod or possibly altering save files? It’s now illegal in Japan and both are punishable by up to five years in prison as well as fines up to 5 million yen ($46,000). Japan’s Association of Copyright for Computer Software states that modding games and consoles violate the country’s Unfair Competition Prevention Law. Peripheral maker Cyber Gadget immediately stopped selling its Save Editor data tool, which enabled gamers to use cheats and patch codes, immediately on its Japanese website. Read morefor another video and additional information.


https://www.techeblog.com/video-game-console-mod-japan-law/


Cheating makes games worthless when it goes unpunished is my opinion
 
Er... It depends. I think They should base it on how many reportings the driver has against them. They should also watch some of the races to make sure that the driver is actually driving dirty
 
Yes sony/pd should begin with forcing all replays to be shown . If a person trys to hide a replay sony should auto flag it for review.

It shouldnt be hard to bring down the ban hammer on folks who refuse to play fair. Start doing like other devs and ban the rule breakers from any contests
Then no matter how many names they make up they still wont be able to play in any tournys .


Pd/sony just need to ask themselves a simple question which is

Why would anyone want to join our esports when other esport titles do a way better job of keeping things fair ?
 
Majorwolf72
The exact reason why I‘m starting on iracing and possibly transitioning to it completely is the lack of consequence against dirty drivers as well as the non-optimal approach to enforce clean driving in the first place in GT Sport. (And then there‘s always the strange penalty system, but no game is perfect...)

I think an additional value that determines overall driving experience should be added when pairing players. Sheer distance driven would be easiest as this value is monitored already. Several categories could be made like 0-1000 km (complete noob), 1001-5000 km (freshman), 5001-15000 km (junior), 150001-40000 km (senior), over 40000 km (graduate). (divide by 1.609 to get the corresponding mileages...)

Would that guarantee cleaner races for the more experiences and possibly sincere drivers? A little bit, I think. Then again, racing in two leagues with guys mainly between 60k and 150k km experience I can say: pigs you‘ll find everywhere...
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The game has tons of information, check your course stats on your official profile and it knows how many races you've completed on each track. When Jason Guernsey's site was still up he extracted data from the PD servers that would tell you for each race how much SR you gained or lost, irrespective of being at the maximum or minimum value. The server can build an SR profile for each player per track / car combo, weighted for the number positions gained or lost (indicating interaction with other cars on track) to give you a better SR rating per track. It can track your DR per track as well, next to the overall value.

With a better SR and DR rating weighted for the race you enter and your experience on that track, matchmaking will be a lot better. Now we have weekly races it makes sense to track DR/SR per track. It would remove people from SR.S races that farmed SR elsewhere, while adding people with experience that had a few bad races on another track.

SR should also be averaged to smooth out sudden spikes in SR, either up or down. SR is far too volatile to be useful for accurate matching.
 
Sven Jurgens
SR should also be averaged to smooth out sudden spikes in SR, either up or down. SR is far too volatile to be useful for accurate matching.
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I agree completely. One bad race and you drop to B DR almost guaranteed. Suffering a huge SR/DR loss is what caused me to start this thread. Went from being in competitive points brackets to lower points brackets and that put me out of the Manufacturer's Championship. I need 1700 points minimum tomorrow at Suzuka Circuit. I can see how it's volatility can also be a deterrent though causing more cautious driving. If all of the little side swiping bugs, brake check penalty bugs and the contact/car spin penalty bugs, that gives you 10 seconds every time, were fixed, it'd be a pretty solid system as is. There is room for improvement since someone can slam into you at full speed, put you off, then they spin and face the opposite direction which leaves you with a 10 second penalty because the game thinks you are responsible for their spinout when it was their recklessness in the first place.
 

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