Should the time be taken to update every track with weather and time progression?
- Thread starter JTB10000
- 56 comments
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 1,489
- Texas
- JoshsoJB
K.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
If GT5 is the upper track as it appears to be, the trees looked far better in the older game.Yes, we don't just wanna see re-textured tracks but we need higher poly and more detailed environments. In GT5, many tracks lacked detail such as Laguna Seca, Autumn Ring etc. But were improved in GT6.
GT5 V GT6 (Autumn Ring)
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 8,725
Looking at the difference between GT5 and GT6 with Autumn Ring alone, it should be clear that PD are well equipped to add these features to all tracks.
The limitation with the PS3 editions was the hardware, Kaz mentioned the difficulty with the way each track was different in its needs (probably to do with the real time shadows), and that some were more marginal than others.
This difficulty should disappear on PS4.
Then it's just a case of tweaking the assets to suit (mainly textures). Again, Autumn Ring is our signpost here: the pre-baked lighting was changed for the dynamic method, and yet most of the textures are the same. This implies PD kept the textures in "unbaked" (unlit) form ready for this conversion, and if the same is true of all the other tracks, then there is no issue. The tracks have tended to undergo changes in time-of-day from game to game, or between forward and reverse versions in the same game, so this is highly likely.
The new tree textures at Autumn Ring are probably 2D ("billboard") aliases of 3D versions intended for the next console; Goodwood has some "proper 3D" trees already, but just imagine them flattened to 2D and applied to a billboard, vs. a modified photograph on a billboard. Working in 3D to make 2D art has historically been full of compromises.
The limitation with the PS3 editions was the hardware, Kaz mentioned the difficulty with the way each track was different in its needs (probably to do with the real time shadows), and that some were more marginal than others.
This difficulty should disappear on PS4.
Then it's just a case of tweaking the assets to suit (mainly textures). Again, Autumn Ring is our signpost here: the pre-baked lighting was changed for the dynamic method, and yet most of the textures are the same. This implies PD kept the textures in "unbaked" (unlit) form ready for this conversion, and if the same is true of all the other tracks, then there is no issue. The tracks have tended to undergo changes in time-of-day from game to game, or between forward and reverse versions in the same game, so this is highly likely.
The new tree textures at Autumn Ring are probably 2D ("billboard") aliases of 3D versions intended for the next console; Goodwood has some "proper 3D" trees already, but just imagine them flattened to 2D and applied to a billboard, vs. a modified photograph on a billboard. Working in 3D to make 2D art has historically been full of compromises.
- 5,161
- Massachusetts
I have absolutely no problem with PD saving resources with things like "trees" or far away objects like "ferris wheels". There are ways that you can model some objects in 3D that save resources, like eliminating polygons except for where edges are seen. That way you still have the sharpness, physically and visually, of the object but keep the asset at a much lower poly count. Of course true 3D trees are going to look much better. Again, there are ways to make "billboard" style trees look better with high resolution textures and alpha maps, but they still won't look as good as 3D. I don't look at the trees while I'm driving. I'm sure I do see the trees out of peripheral vision, but zero attention is given to them while my car is in motion.
Gran Turismo is MORE than just racing though. There is an entire community who isn't interested in racing at all, but rather driving for fun and visually documenting their experiences with Photo Mode. Those people DO want as much detail as possible in ALL assets that are on screen and I don't blame them at all. From time to time I will venture into the GT Photo forum here on GTPlanet and there are times that I am blown away by the gorgeous snapshots users are able to capture. I'm talking about the photos that have no post-processing done to them. Of course they can always be enhanced in Photoshop afterward, but many people don't want to take that additional step.
My opinion about the tracks is simple: Any circuits that are going to be used in Career Mode and used in Seasonal Events, GT Academy or any other PD sanctioned event must be of the highest quality possible or they should be excluded from those modes. Actually, tracks made for GT5 & GT6 should be good enough. I know that thousands of people who having been playing GT since GT1 would lose their minds if tracks like Trial Mountain or Deep Forest were excluded, but frankly they will not be up to snuff on the PS4 without some serious reworking, or complete remaking. Those tracks could still be a part of GT7, but they should be considered "classic" or "standard" tracks like we call the older vehicles and excluded from Career Mode and the like. Gran Turismo modelers have had since December 2013 to work on new tracks or vastly update older tracks. I would bet that Fall 2016 would be the soonest we see Gran Turismo 7, so that's roughly 4 years to get the tracks "PS4-Ready".
I'm positive that this is all wishful thinking on my part. My relationship with PD is only 18 months old, but I have already lost faith in a lot of areas with them.
- 8,725
I'd wager a lot of the work done on remaking tracks for PS3 has accompanied work done for PS4, too. Those 3D trees at Autumn Ring, for instance.
- 11,468
- Sweden
- eran0004
I don't need compressed videos to tell me that the trees in the upper half of this picture look better than the trees in the lower half.
The trees on the upper picture looks better because it's a static time / weather track so they could use textures with shadows.
On a track with dynamic time and weather you can't do that, because the sun isn't always the same, so the shadows need to be toned down to a more ambient level. So when making the move from static time to dynamic time you win some and you lose some.
- 1,089
May be not all but classic GT tracks need that for sure. Real tracks are already good and they already have lots of data but could not do it on PS3 due to ram and gfx processor.
Time of day and variable weather is a must on all tracks
Time of day and variable weather is a must on all tracks
- 15,533
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Oh yes please, their updated tracks look incredible (heck they look better than Project CARS tracks)
- 7,829
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
And of course you understand why. It's not just that these are classic tracks. Cars may be the body of a racing game, but race courses are the life blood. Having very few of them makes a game tiresome. I experienced this in Forza 2, and grew to loathe the same tracks being recycled endlessly. Along with the lack of cars, this is why I passed up Forza 5 entirely. And I'm just not in the mood to spend upwards of $800-plus (including a supported wheel) to play it.
While I agree with everyone that wants high quality content in GT7, I'm one of those who would rather compromise to have more of it. Before anyone's blood vessels burst, we may well both get our wishes. It takes up to two years to make a real world track from scratch, but this is no doubt from the meticulous way PD builds the tracks to recreate them. I doubt building that Roman Colosseum virtually was a two week project. But the only requirements for the fantasy tracks are to match the vision of the team, so they're free to share trackside assets between them to save time. I want to see all the legacy tracks in GT7, and it could happen if PD hired enough modeling staff to handle them, complete with time of day transition and weather.
I'd love to see more real world locations like Yas Marina, Virginia International Raceway, Road Atlanta and Hockenheim in GT7, but if it would be easier to include the legacy guys like Seattle, Costa di Amalfi, Red Rock Valley, El Capitain, Swiss Alps, Paris, Citta di Aria and the rest, do it. In fact, just do it anyway.
Lain
Premium
- 7,094
- Pasadena, TX
- Yaywalter
Polyphony needs to strike a good level of quality and quantity for the tracks. If going overboard with revamping track quality equates to GT7 having fewer tracks than GT5/GT6, then I would probably find myself disliking GT7 quite a bit.
We don't need 3D trees or any of that jazz... I'd rather that time and processing power go to other areas. Besides, knowing Polyphony, they'd probably want to accurately model each tree to match its real-life counterpart (provided it's not a fictional track), so no thanks.
That said, would I like to see all the tracks with dynamic weather/time? Absolutely... a track under different conditions is almost like an entirely new track. And I think Polyphony could probably update the existing tracks for dynamic weather & time at the expense of maybe only a couple potential brand new tracks.
We don't need 3D trees or any of that jazz... I'd rather that time and processing power go to other areas. Besides, knowing Polyphony, they'd probably want to accurately model each tree to match its real-life counterpart (provided it's not a fictional track), so no thanks.
That said, would I like to see all the tracks with dynamic weather/time? Absolutely... a track under different conditions is almost like an entirely new track. And I think Polyphony could probably update the existing tracks for dynamic weather & time at the expense of maybe only a couple potential brand new tracks.
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
Yes. The very least they need to do is full time progression and dynamic weather. They also need to completely re do the tracks that look ps2 quality (trial mountain, deep forest, monaco, etc.) because they stand out like a sore thumb against the quality of the premium cars on ps3, let alone how bad they'd look in a ps4 game. They also need more realistic weather obviously. At least Project CARS level. Hopefully Driveclub level, but maybe that's just wishful thinking lol.
- 3,203
- Philippines
- skygrasper_550--
Weather and time progression would be nice for all tracks, but I think it's better if PD concentrated more on the track details (grass, trees, hill and mountain slopes, etc.). And if they decide to implement weather and time progression on all tracks, they should first implement it on real-life tracks, then work their way towards their own original courses.
Lain
Premium
- 7,094
- Pasadena, TX
- Yaywalter
^ really? I mean sure, I like tunnels and trees as much as Snoop Dogg... but PD fixing those purely aesthetic issues are more important to you than adding weather & time, which are both aesthetic AND gameplay enhancements?
For me, better gameplay > better graphics. And I'm not one of those hipsters who pretends they don't care at all about super-awesome HD photorealistic graphics, I truly do love me some graphics.
I do agree about making real-life locations the priority for adding weather & time, though.
For me, better gameplay > better graphics. And I'm not one of those hipsters who pretends they don't care at all about super-awesome HD photorealistic graphics, I truly do love me some graphics.
I do agree about making real-life locations the priority for adding weather & time, though.
syntex123
Staff Emeritus
- 5,081
- Tønsberg, Norway
- syntex123
- Syntex260Z
Funny. As I think that photo in particular looks like it has been re-textured and with uglier trees. Nothing new and fancy. Except time of day.Yes, we don't just wanna see re-textured tracks but we need higher poly and more detailed environments. In GT5, many tracks lacked detail such as Laguna Seca, Autumn Ring etc. But were improved in GT6.
GT5 V GT6 (Autumn Ring)
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