Should we have to tune a car to win?

[j8mie]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I did do a search beforehand.

As it says in the title. Should we have to tune a car just to win a race/race series? Should you not have to rely on talent to win races. Or maybe tuning should only be aloud for certain cars i.e. LM or JGTC. I'm not against tuning of cars, in fact I've used it many times myself, but I feel it's too easy to over tune a car to win a race. Would people like to see tuning limits per race on top of the other limts you have for races i.e. type of tyres, age of car etc.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this/these question(s). I'm just interested what others think on the matter.

With so much anti Need For Speed tuning/modding, it seems strange that people are very quick to tune a car to win a race series. I know most people are against body kits, spoilers & NOS, and not race engine mods. But at the end of the day, it comes under the same umbrella.

I'm guessing that the amount you tune a car, is dependant on two things 1) how good you are and 2) how easy you want to make the racing for you.

Not wishing to pick a fight with anyone, I'm just interested it what you think.

 

[Sureboss]

mazda endurance?

 

[My Left Yarble]

I usually try to tune my car so that it's levelled with the competition. Sometimes it's hard to tell though. And sometimes I think, screw it, and make a really fast car.

But I find so much fun in tuning. When you have a car and you perfect it to the way you want it. You test it, and think that there's something that's just not right, go back to settings and try again. In GT3 I spent most of my time tuning the car and testing it.

And when you get it right it feels like such an achievement

 

[cjrciadt]

I usually try to tune my car so that it's levelled with the competition. Sometimes it's hard to tell though. And sometimes I think, screw it, and make a really fast car.

But I find so much fun in tuning. When you have a car and you perfect it to the way you want it. You test it, and think that there's something that's just not right, go back to settings and try again. In GT3 I spent most of my time tuning the car and testing it.

And when you get it right it feels like such an achievement

Agreed, I own every MB SL (54' till 65AMG). My favorite is my fully tuned every mod SL500. Its more fun to drive than the heavier more powerful AMG's and love its looks.

 

[gsavill90]

I usually try to tune my car so that it's levelled with the competition. Sometimes it's hard to tell though....

I think doing this, and making life hard for yourself makes the game more rewarding. It involves more skill and patience.

 

[jrudd]

Should we have to tune a car just to win a race/race series? Should you not have to rely on talent to win races.

Tuning is a talent. I think, if anything, it should play a bigger part of the game. That is why I buy GT4 instead of arcade-style racers. I'm a little upset about how easy it is to win races without tuning, actually.

 

[Kremithefrog]

Depends on car + your skills. I tend to make winning races as easy as possible, some of them are still going to be hard and I still have super license and missions to do, so it's not like I'm not getting any challenging stuff. And if I tune a car to do good in a series, then I've just made that car that much more useful in other races (assuming the tune is a good tune for any course). I also enjoy tuning, and since my friend's don't do it, I always have cars that can beat them in arcade that they think won't beat them.

 

[Hãt©h]

I like tunning the suspension and tranny the most. It takes a while sometimes to find the balance in the transmission lots of testing usually middelfield.

 

[CrackHoor]

In some places you'll just have to. Best of luck getting your first Suzuki GSX R/4 without some tuning!

Most of my cars have upgraded suspension and a few other non-power mods (LSD, Race Xmission, VCD for 4WD's) and are built up from there to compete in the event I'm entering. Sometimes I'm already too quick, and sometimes I decide to throw on some mild power. My full-tuned cars are mainly used for track meets and free runs.

mazda endurance?

Tuned MX-5's are allowed in GT4, I'm afraid. 👎

 

[Sjenk]

After 55% and more than 100 cars, I only have 1 tuned car in my garage. That car is the Clio Phase II, because I wasn't able to win the Clio cup against all those Clio Race cars... All other races are done with stock cars and when I race, I always try to get cars which are slower and then try to win is much more fun imo.

 

[j8mie]

Some good feed back there. Maybe I'm missing the point of tuning cars.

This is how I normally tackle the problem of tuning a car. I select a car for a race. I'll try the race and see how I get on. If I'm up front and/or winning is no problem, I'll leave well alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it

If however I'm getting thrashed, then I'll quit the race and start tuning. Normally I'll stick a turbo on, then a air filter & zorst, a ECU chip and maybe lighten it. Is this the normal approach, or do most people add a couple of smaller things, and then re-race but tweak the settings of the suspension, and gearing, to help the car handle/accelerate better with the extra power. Or like me, do people just increase the power as much as possible to win?

I fear I've missed the point of tuning, and I'm just bolting on every power mod, and I'm over looking thngs like gearing, suspension, weight & braking balance etc.

 

[194GVan]

I'm a little upset about how easy it is to win races without tuning, actually.

I met someone this weekend that never tuned any of his cars, just bought the parts and didnt change a single setting. He wasnt even aware that you could have different tires on the front or the rear of the car. Needless to say I reccomended this site to him 👍

 

[Sjenk]

If however I'm getting thrashed, then I'll quit the race and start tuning. Normally I'll stick a turbo on, then a air filter & zorst, a ECU chip and maybe lighten it. Is this the normal approach, or do most people add a couple of smaller things, and then re-race but tweak the settings of the suspension, and gearing, to help the car handle/accelerate better with the extra power. Or like me, do people just increase the power as much as possible to win?

Well, I added a NA stage 3 to my Clio. I also bought race tyres and better brakes. Result: Overkill...oops! That was not what I had in mind by tuning the Clio... After one race I thought 'Hmm, maybe go back and buy NA 1 or 2?', but I was lazy and wanted to get rid of this race, since I had other races to do which were more fun.

 

[slomo]

Tuning a car is another way of making a car unique to you.... all the cars are out there for you to buy with fake money, you could spend days saving up to buy a certain car, and your friend could do the same and you guys would just end up with the same car... no fun. however, when you tune it up to your super secret specs, in your super secret method, then smoke your friend by a couple seconds with the same car he's got which forces him to go back to the tuning garage and fiddle with the ratio sliders for a couple hours.... then your car is all of the sudden more special.

To me making each of your cars to run the fastest times WHEN DRIVEN BY YOU is like 50% of the game, and where I spend almost 50% of my time in the game. I guess I'm weird, but I really enjoy testing my cars on the max speed track (which also clocks your 400 and 1000m) to set gear ratios, then taking it on to Nurburgrinburgurgring (or however you spell it!) and setting suspension from there. I could spend hours on each car like this. These tuning settings change as i become a better driver (as i realize most of the tuning changes i make are to make up for lack of skill) but i can't imagine driving them completely stock at any point... i have too much fun customizing them.

 

[smellysocks12]

Tuning is a talent. I think, if anything, it should play a bigger part of the game. That is why I buy GT4 instead of arcade-style racers. I'm a little upset about how easy it is to win races without tuning, actually.

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't like how the computer uses stock cars in most races. Why even spend money on a new transmission or suspension when you can already win anyway?

 

[PatsBard]

Some good feed back there. Maybe I'm missing the point of tuning cars.

This is how I normally tackle the problem of tuning a car. I select a car for a race. I'll try the race and see how I get on. If I'm up front and/or winning is no problem, I'll leave well alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it

If however I'm getting thrashed, then I'll quit the race and start tuning. Normally I'll stick a turbo on, then a air filter & zorst, a ECU chip and maybe lighten it. Is this the normal approach, or do most people add a couple of smaller things, and then re-race but tweak the settings of the suspension, and gearing, to help the car handle/accelerate better with the extra power. Or like me, do people just increase the power as much as possible to win?

I fear I've missed the point of tuning, and I'm just bolting on every power mod, and I'm over looking thngs like gearing, suspension, weight & braking balance etc.

Racing exhaust...racing brakes...racing chip...lightening 1 & 2. The exhaust and chip will add a bit of HP, brakes will help your cornering speeds, lightening will help your acceleration. Full transmission helps on different courses...lower number for city courses (more acceleration for tight turns), higher number for the other courses (higher top speed for broader turns and straights). Don't overlook the tires when you're trying to race with minimum modifications: S3's for restricted races and R3's for unrestricted races. Staying on the asphalt does wonders for your lap times.

I tend to go top of the line for everything and then add either Stage 2 NA or Stage 2 Turbo if I'm still being out-powered.

 

[jake11375]

Here's the route I like to take on tuning my cars for general racing...

Full racing suspension
Racing brakes and controller
Lighten Stage 3
Tires
Drivetrain, Full racing transmission, clutch, flywheel, 1.5 Limited Slip, etc.

You'd be surprised at how well a car performs with improved handling characteristics without more power. I find cars with a good setup and 300-400 hp to be the most enjoyable. Unless its the test course :-)

I always buy every single upgrade for every car I buy, but I just don't install it. I save all the installs for fun later. 👍

 

[Alfetta]

I usually buy all the possbible updates for the car and tune the car as much as I can then if I need/want I switch back and forth with different modification...

 

[Flerbizky]

If however I'm getting thrashed, then I'll quit the race and start tuning. Normally I'll stick a turbo on, then a air filter & zorst, a ECU chip and maybe lighten it. Is this the normal approach, or do most people add a couple of smaller things, and then re-race but tweak the settings of the suspension, and gearing, to help the car handle/accelerate better with the extra power.

I always approach the tuning part like I would in real life.. Start with balancing (which I assume would include what would be a "blueprint" in real life).. Then a head job (porting).. Then intake and exhaust would be next.. Let the engine do it's best without adding stuff.. That can be done later

 

[FRST]

I did the DTM B-spec trick one day and got myself 18millions half of them where used to buy the black used cars and the rest was used to buy 10km only used cars and all the other used cars I wanted.

Thing I do now that I'm "rich" and have got the choice... is try one with car and if it's too hard for me I just try another model and if I really can't win without a stock car I change the brakes then the transmission thingies until I'm bored and tune the engin/turbo but only 1 step at a time until I win....

only got 45% wins like this but at least I tried each and every Skyline model from R30 to R34 in the Nissan "R" challenge !!! so I think I'm getting "more out of the game" than just having 1 nitro-powered über-powerful car to win all the challenges like some people do. Ther'es 700+ cars why not use them ?
Tuning will come later first I want to ejoy the many models available

 

[Alfetta]

Ther'es 700+ cars why not use them ?

This is the reason why I buy a car for each single race! 👍

 

[Iceman]

It all depends upon what you are trying to do. If you want to win a car or race quickly and easily, then why not upgrade it? If you want a challenge, nothing is stopping you from not modding the car.

 

[GBB]

I find that the AI is usually quite easy to beat with an equal untuned car so I prefer not to tune. But I find my B-Spec driver needs a bit more of an advantage so I need to tune up the cars a bit.

It just depends whether you want to walk all over the AI or have a competitive race.

 

[RenesisEvo]

oh the joys of tuning... sticking all sorts of upgrades to your big, expensive merc, reducing the A-spec points to a measly 3, and then watching an SLR utterly kill you.

For most of my races, my tuning consists of flywheel/propshaft, plus suspension, gearbox and S3 tyres where needed. I rarely add power unless I need it. If i go to a race, and win by a fair margin, I up the ballast to 100 and try again, and keep going until either im on 200kg and minumum power, or I'm losing. Completely unlike GT3, where anycar got every item chucked at it straight away.

I think you should be able to win with a stock car - but its not always easy. With some races, the range in power is big. e.g. Mini racing - 88bhp to 140-odd... so you might take the 88bhp for A-spec points, but you will find the higher powered cars making a killing on the straights. I couldnt keep up with a similarly powered car once but then I've only been driving GT4 for a week, after 3 years of GT3. 70's racing - a Celica can just about win, but the 240ZG and the Nissan 240ZL-G (i think) are too quick as standard (which means if you face one, you are in for a tough race).

One problem is money -everytime I save some up, I see something rare and unusal in the used car markets (Honda S500/600 and N360 all got now.. plus goodness knows what other slow rubbish). So not much for tuning all the cars I have (60-odd). Oh the headaches.. ah well. No GT4 for 2 months now

 

[Phil McCavity]

over modding a car can be a bad thing (as i found out with the lotus carlton and minolta, prob others in my garage too)

many cars can be too powerful for the majority of the circuits and, therefore, arent as competitive as they could be

i now try not to stick the best turbo/na on.... seems to work better for me

Gord

 

[Oddball_E8]

i think it would be great if the AI tuned its cars too...

since we only have 5 opponents anyway, why couldnt they all have unique ai personalitys... and tuning opportunitys...
some would tune for speed, some for traction others for control and so on...
give them a budget... that would spice things up a bit... most of us tune our cars (at least a little) anyway so why not?

 

[Phil McCavity]

thats a very cool idea Oddball!! love it!! maybe when GT5 hits the PS3?? (i hope the AI is a tad better than GT4.... artificial intelligence??? there aint any, the opponents just follow a fixed route... if u are in the way, they go thru u)

Gord

ps mind u, it is fun (payback?) when u dump an AI car into the gravel trap.... makes me laugh MUAHAHAHA

 

[mangadrive]

Certain cars glue to certain people's styles right off the bat. Some people can drive almost any given FR/AWD whatever it may be thats thrown at them just because it feels natural to them. A lot of the reason you can just HP tune a car and win is due to poor/slow AI. IF we were ever to get smarter opponents on the track, that could change.

The idea was suggested that AI should tune thier cars too. When you spend years making a game as high tech as this and offer such tuning solutions it wouldnt be hard to create a few sets of higher tuned settings that are invisible to the user but allowed to be used by the AI. Its just a no brainer to any tuner that a shorter/curvier track needs to be set around acceleration and handling and the long fast tracks are built for speed. It seems the AI always finds a medium in between these and its on an algoryhtmic 'rail' so to speak, so when you do tune your car right it becomes a blowout. So it IS rewarding to tune your car, but it isnt nessicary. It just depends how much challenge you really want. I personally spend hours just trying to find the right settings for my car.

The main reason I was excited about Online play (that was much better executed) was because it becomes a tuning war. It would be possible to beat the amatuer that just speed tunes his car and bounces off the rails in an attempt to win. The best drivers and tuners would have somethign to show for it. If you want better AI, then in reality you want better Online because playing other PEOPLE will always be better than a computer scripted enemy. Anything thats coded has a pattern and a weakness. People can adapt quicker. The AI 'driver' has never thought for itself in GT games .. ever.

Personally I think it should be imperative to tune at least towards the 'end game'. Should be a better option of what difficulty you would really like out of Sim mode. Easy, Medium, Hard.. even NFSU can do that..

 

[sideslider]

I met someone this weekend that never tuned any of his cars, just bought the parts and didnt change a single setting. He wasnt even aware that you could have different tires on the front or the rear of the car. Needless to say I reccomended this site to him 👍

lol ...i know a person just like this...he doesnt have a clue about tunning or cars at all...he just got gt4 because he buys all the new games when they come out so he can beat them in a week....but the worse thing is he's killing me in completion % but ...all he does is buy a car add all the tunning and mods doesnt even adjust much besides putting the suspension all the way down.....but i always win when we race ....

 

[MoZqUiTo]

there are races where u want a good challenge cause either you are in a car you really like and really want to get a feel for it, or you're just up for the challenge, and so you go ahead and drive stock or wit "minor" tuning (exhaust+brakes+chip). Then there are the races you learn to hate (Endurance races and World GT Championship OMG!!!) and you just want to max out the car and/or b-spec just to get them over with. (At least that is the way it works for me. too bad you can't B-Spec the Super Liscence test cause that **** is really pissin me off..... )