Skid Recovery Force - Time lap - What it is?

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SRF is fine for the beginner players, but when you see the top times in the seasonal events all done with it, then you have a problem.

IMO using SRF should disqualify your time from rankings. Hey, if you're not a super skilled GT player, it's there for you to use to get gold, but if you want to see where you rank against the rest of the world, you should have to disable it or your time doesn't count -- or at least have two separate time boards. It makes no sense that they're mixed.

It's not like traction control which is a realistic and available driving "aid," and even things like ASM or steering assist slow down experienced players more than it helps them. But skid recovery force is an artificial aid that makes too much of a difference. It's annoying when I would start a seasonal event and a ghost line from an online friend shows up, and I just can't keep up with it. He's got all the grip in the world and incredible acceleration from corners. Then I check his info and he has SRF on... Just annoying. I don't want to have to turn it on myself just to beat him. And on the other end if I do the event first and he does it after, he sees my ghost line and laughs as he easily beats me, unknowing that I'm not using SRF.

Seriously. Address it, PD.
 
My take on SRF is that yes, it is not realistic but at the same time, you don't have any sense of pitch or lateral acceleration when you are playing the game, so the SRF is to help those who don't have virtual 'butts' to sense when especially the rear end is breaking loose.

I started playing the game with the DS3 and the RWD cars are quite hard to drive compared to previous GT versions. I turned SRF on and I quit spinning out. I am going to try after I get more familiar with the game using my G27 and turning off SRF and stability control and see how I do. For me, playing with the DS3 controller, SRF was a big help. And I have been playing the GT games since GT3.

But I agree, one should not be faster with the SRF on, because its basically manipulating the tire model and adding grip to the rubber as a compensation for not having the feedback of a real car. That's not realistic.
 
Vagabond
2nd only in arrogant superiority to the ABS=0 clan. I can drive with either view, with ABS 0, TCS off blah blah blah.... Let's face it, none of the views are realistic are they? We'd need a driving simulator to achieve realism.... or at very least a 50" TV right in front of you. I have a 24" monitor - pretty sure my car windscreen is a bit bigger than that.

We make do with what we've got, the choices we have. Fine, make your choice, If you want to restrict your lobbies to cockpit view only, I agree, you should be able to do that 👍 But don't make it a crusade.... "We are better than you because we can do it like this. You are obviously a heathen because you do it a different way."
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Actually, you started with the nonsense trying to suggest that the cockpit view is not realistic. It is. It does not 100% mimic actually being there, but that is not possible due to limitations of the interface (ie, the system used to do the simulating). Perhaps racers are not simmers like flight sim guys are. I'm a flight sim guy first, race sim second (distant second). The biggest sin imaginable in a combat flight sim is to remove the immersion factor purely for the sake of better visibility, which grants a marked advantage over those who do not do the same. And it's just as arcade here as it is there. Sorry, it just is. That's why cockpit locking is not only an option, but one of the most commonly used options in lobbies. There are still ways to "game the game" even then, but it's a start.

I agree that the the ABS/TCS hysteria is nonsense. Modern road cars have ABS. That should be present, unless you choose to mod the vehicle by removing it. Otherwise, to accurately simulate the car (as accurately as possible on the interface available) it must be present. Thus, I use ABS on cars that have it. But not on cars that didn't - and my new fave is my 78 Trans Am (because we have yet to get a 2002 WS6... that avatar isn't just because it looks cool, it's a 4th Gen Phoenix, like on the front plate cover of my car), but an old favorite is the Cobra. What kills me about those anti-ABS/TCS guys is that they swear up and down that it slows one down, but then clearly are deathly afraid of it (which means they know it lets people be faster but don't want to say that).

Unfortunately, your reaction is an example of why it is not an option (at least not that I've seen yet). People love their wonder woman view, they love the advantage it gives, they do flips and twists to justify it when they feel challenged, and so it hasn't been bothered with yet. Shame. All it really comes down to is allowing a host to ensure a level playing field, those who don't like it can go elsewhere. So perhaps there really needs to be a crusade. Not that it'd work or actually change anything, but, it's nice to dream

BTW - you mentioned your 24" screen. I've used 17 and 19" CRTs for flight sims for years. And visibility is more of an issue there - "lose sight, lose the fight". For GT, I have a 55" plasma. But I also have a crappy rundown old Logitech Momo FFB wheel that changes center on it's own, and sometimes use a DS3. I can't afford one of those nice $600 wheels. Yes, equipment can give an advantage, but not on the level of wonder woman view or SRF.
 
Conquerer
SRF is fine for the beginner players, but when you see the top times in the seasonal events all done with it, then you have a problem.

IMO using SRF should disqualify your time from rankings. Hey, if you're not a super skilled GT player, it's there for you to use to get gold, but if you want to see where you rank against the rest of the world, you should have to disable it or your time doesn't count -- or at least have two separate time boards. It makes no sense that they're mixed.

It's not like traction control which is a realistic and available driving "aid," and even things like ASM or steering assist slow down experienced players more than it helps them. But skid recovery force is an artificial aid that makes too much of a difference. It's annoying when I would start a seasonal event and a ghost line from an online friend shows up, and I just can't keep up with it. He's got all the grip in the world and incredible acceleration from corners. Then I check his info and he has SRF on... Just annoying. I don't want to have to turn it on myself just to beat him. And on the other end if I do the event first and he does it after, he sees my ghost line and laughs as he easily beats me, unknowing that I'm not using SRF.

Seriously. Address it, PD.
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Like I said in my other post leave it and option SRF ON/OFF in GT6. But when GT7 comes out on PS4 and SRF is not there I am ok with that but if the SRF is there in GT7 you just have to live with it.
 
alexownz
That's literally the only place it's forced on you. People just blow it up and make it a big deal.
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No, making it an option in seasonal TTs means that's what everyone uses, otherwise you stand no chance of setting a top time.
 
I didn't know SRF made that much of a difference to times. I personally never use it unless it is forced on me to use it. I do however use traction control. Like a poster above, I use it when it's appropriate, it's nonsense not using it for something like an Enzo because those cars definitely 100% have them. whereas if I was using an old car I would forego the abs and traction control. I will however admit I commit the cardinal sin of not using cockpit view :crazy: I use the looking at the back of the car view. Mostly because I like to see my own car because it's purdy :p

EDIT: I only ever use MAX 1 abs and 1 traction control when playing.
 
partyboy690
I didn't know SRF made that much of a difference to times. I personally never use it unless it is forced on me to use it. I do however use traction control. Like a poster above, I use it when it's appropriate, it's nonsense not using it for something like an Enzo because those cars definitely 100% have them. whereas if I was using an old car I would forego the abs and traction control. I will however admit I commit the cardinal sin of not using cockpit view :crazy: I use the looking at the back of the car view. Mostly because I like to see my own car because it's purdy :p

EDIT: I only ever use MAX 1 abs and 1 traction control when playing.
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Exactly the same as me and the way I think too with the small exception that for some cars, usually higher powered one's I will go with ABS 3. Can just help that bit more to prevent fishtailing and side to side pull when braking at high speed, prevents that initial bite!
 
XPOWER180
Exactly the same as me and the way I think too with the small exception that for some cars, usually higher powered one's I will go with ABS 3. Can just help that bit more to prevent fishtailing and side to side pull when braking at high speed, prevents that initial bite!
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I think some people have a pretty crappy attitude when it comes to this game. Not saying anyone on this thread in particular but there are those people who just can't let people enjoy Gran Turismo how they want to enjoy it. If you played with SRF, ASM, loads of traction control, loads of abs in the bumper cam then I couldn't care less. Let people play how they want to play, it's like when the 20M credit glitch happened, some people were coming as close as calling the people who did it scumbags. I did it originally because of the microtransactions but when the economy was sorted out I started a new game because I wanted the enjoyment of earning my cars. Do I care that some did it and kept going as is? no I do not, not even slightly.
 
I think SRF is okay for new players and casual players that want to jump into a seasonal with just a DS3. Cockpit view is rubbish unless you have multle monitors. But hey, this is a PS3 game and the majority of us are using DS3s with one monitor which inherently make throttle control a more difficult task and bumper view aoften a good option, so I say keep SRF but differentiate the times for online/seasonals...hell, differentiate times for driving views, who really cares, the large majority of GT players wouldn't care because they use what they have and what works best for them.

If people want to consider themselves better for using one driving aid/view then keep to yourself and the people that agree with your views. The majority of us realize it's a driving sim and making it more "realistic" possibly makes it more of a "driving sim" but it doesn't make it more like driving a real race car.
 
DrkPhnyx
Just to play devil's advocate - while you are not incorrect in what you say, and I wouldn't argue that, I think what he meant was something like this -

In that video, same vehicle, same wet track, with the systems on it ran through the course more quickly and with more apparent grip than with them off. So, from a certain perspective, it can be interpreted as them "giving more grip", even though they can't actually do that as it defies physics, but it can enable things that would otherwise be impossible without computer control, so the end result is sort of the same (as if they did magically give more grip).
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Correct me if i'm wrong but the video you showed was for stability control. It should be equated to ASM not SRF in the game.

ABS, TC and ASM are real. SRF and AS are not.

 
partyboy690
I think some people have a pretty crappy attitude when it comes to this game. Not saying anyone on this thread in particular but there are those people who just can't let people enjoy Gran Turismo how they want to enjoy it. If you played with SRF, ASM, loads of traction control, loads of abs in the bumper cam then I couldn't care less. Let people play how they want to play, it's like when the 20M credit glitch happened, some people were coming as close as calling the people who did it scumbags. I did it originally because of the microtransactions but when the economy was sorted out I started a new game because I wanted the enjoyment of earning my cars. Do I care that some did it and kept going as is? no I do not, not even slightly.
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When you said Let people play how they want to play is 100% right. Look what happen in GT5 How many people hack that to have a lot of fun with the game.
 
Vagabond
No, making it an option in seasonal TTs means that's what everyone uses, otherwise you stand no chance of setting a top time.
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Yeah, I'd never used SRF before (aside from where it was forced), and never even really knew what it did. I just saw it in the menu as a driver assist and always had it off where I could. After reading all the drama about it here, I went and did the Matterhorn seasonal, whacked in a time, and then did it again with SRF on. Knocked I think a couple of seconds off the time straight away. That was with my first real attempt with SRF, not really knowing just how much more it would let me push. I was already a car length or two ahead of my ghost going into turn 1 because I could hold it dead flat all the way around the corner leading on to the straight, whereas without SRF I'd have been in the wall well before full throttle.

While I think it's a bit rubbish, I dunno what the solution is. Not everyone has a nice wheel to play with, not everyone (myself included) can afford to put so many hours into the game, etc. I guess they don't want to restrict people from being able to take part in something just because they use assists. But then again, I can't take part in some of the seasonals because I didn't buy their anniversary crap. :boggled:
 
Some people say if you don't use srf in the seasonal tt you don't have a shot to get a top time. That is true for most people. That makes them angry. But what they don't tell you is, even if srf was forced off, they still wouldn't be able to get a top time. If srf wasn't on the times would be slower, but the overall placement wouldn't change much. Fast guys are fast with or without driving aids.
 
I don't use it in the seasonals even where it appeared to be forced I looked at my time and when I look at the details it says SRF Off

I have no problem with them allowing it to be used or forcing it off. I do not think they should force it on but if they do then so be it.

I do think that they should make it optional and that they should also tie it to the TCS and ASM in such a way that you can only use SRF when TCS and ASM are both enabled. So basically setting SRF on would lock ASM On and TCS 5. This I think would counter act the added speed attained with SRF and stop the top drivers from using it while still allowing the beginers a better chance at a decent lap time
 
It's a PITA when you do times (for the Seasonals) and you scroll around and everyone has ASM etc on, never mind SRF. It's like auto-aim in a FPS!

I hope that's not used in GT Academy!
 
devildog666
Some people say if you don't use srf in the seasonal tt you don't have a shot to get a top time. That is true for most people. That makes them angry. But what they don't tell you is, even if srf was forced off, they still wouldn't be able to get a top time. If srf wasn't on the times would be slower, but the overall placement wouldn't change much. Fast guys are fast with or without driving aids.
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Sorry but I disagree with this.. on a level playing field (with no SRF) I always finish in the top 1000, with everyone using SRF this is now not the case, on the Lancia Delta TT round Tsukuba for example, I'm currently sat at 4000th (last time I looked) with a 1.06.1xx, no aids including 0 abs, I then turned SRF on, made sure I red lapped, then set a time of 1.04.1xx ( would have got into 1'03's if I'd not purposely driven onto grass to red lap it ) which is probably a time good enough for top 1000 ( I tried to check, but couldn't be bothered scrolling through leaderboard ) . 2 secs is a lot to gain from just flipping an aid on in my opinion, so I don't believe you have a shot at a top time without using it,
defiantly don't get angry over it though, its just a game!:lol:
Not got a problem with people using it, if it lets you then its not cheating, your just using every resource given to you (which is a smart idea).
A great improvement would be if the times could be filtered, so you know how you compare to other peeps using same settings.
 
jonjig
Sorry but I disagree with this.. on a level playing field (with no SRF) I always finish in the top 1000, with everyone using SRF this is now not the case, on the Lancia Delta TT round Tsukuba for example, I'm currently sat at 4000th (last time I looked) with a 1.06.1xx, no aids including 0 abs, I then turned SRF on, made sure I red lapped, then set a time of 1.04.1xx ( would have got into 1'03's if I'd not purposely driven onto grass to red lap it ) which is probably a time good enough for top 1000 ( I tried to check, but couldn't be bothered scrolling through leaderboard ) . 2 secs is a lot to gain from just flipping an aid on in my opinion, so I don't believe you have a shot at a top time without using it,
defiantly don't get angry over it though, its just a game!:lol:
Not got a problem with people using it, if it lets you then its not cheating, your just using every resource given to you (which is a smart idea).
A great improvement would be if the times could be filtered, so you know how you compare to other peeps using same settings.
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You disagreed with him, but your post pretty much just completely supported his post.
 
VBR
SRF is a good thing because it makes the game more accessible to beginners, making PD & Sony more money from sales, so they can keep the series going for our enjoyment.

The big issue is forcing a "beginners aid" on all drivers regardless of whether they're beginners or not, which is something that should not be done. We should be allowed to turn it off for all events if we wish to do so.
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I agree SRF is a good thing for GT players on the grounds of keeping beginners around/using them because it makes more profit to keep PD funded. But SRF is a bad thing for the beginners themselves if they ever want to get better.

SRF trains bad driving habits and rewards people for overshooting braking points and panic grabbing the steering. The worse you drive, the more SRF kicks in and pushes your car back to the inside of the track. While running the racing line you'll feel (or at least this is how 'I' feel it) a light-switch on/off effect of grip/no-grip. It's easily exploitable to your benefit but at the long-run cost of training and rewarding bad driving habits imo.

And you're right, SRF shouldn't be forced on but rather an option. But I do think using SRF should void any official ranking in online/friend list leaderboards. I'd still like to see the SRF times posted, but have some sort of asterick, red-font or something to indicate SRF usage and thus not register them in the competitive ranking sense.

devildog666
Some people say if you don't use srf in the seasonal tt you don't have a shot to get a top time. That is true for most people. That makes them angry. But what they don't tell you is, even if srf was forced off, they still wouldn't be able to get a top time. If srf wasn't on the times would be slower, but the overall placement wouldn't change much. Fast guys are fast with or without driving aids.
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True. But the gap would become smaller if SRF wasn't allowed. I know I'll never rank at the top, so I just care about my friend list ranking because I know how good they all are relative to me. I've gained a substantial margin of time on the seasonals when I've switched SRF from off to on. I've surpassed drivers on my friend list who are far superior drivers than me because of SRF. And in the same regard, I've had lesser drivers use SRF and surpass me when I haven't used it. A compromise would be to make SRF a choice for those who just want to obtain gold but at the cost of your time not being officially ranked on the leaderboard. Although, I'd still like to see the SRF times listed for the sake of curiosity.

And I know all too well about fast drivers who are fast with or without aids. One of my friends currently ranks 3rd (last time I checked at least) on the M4 seasonal. We join each others rooms often and I must say, even on my favorite tracks, it's just best if I get out of his way! Crazy fast! :crazy:
 
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Yes, SRF sucks even for controller users like myself, and like many others I too wish there would be time trials and online events that would require that you it to be turned off, but unfortunately there is not, at least not yet. It would be nice if we could "sort by" on the Time Trial leaderboards so we could sort out people who use it, among other things. So in this post I'm pretty much just parroting what 80% of these forums have already said.
 
Wait? So does having SRF on give you better lap times? I was always under the impression that you got the quickest times with ALL aids turned OFF, that the driving aids were there for inexperienced drivers and that the people at the top of of the online leaderboards would also have them turned off.

I always drive with all aids off for 2 reasons A) it gives you more of a challenge to keep the car under control and B) up untill now i thought it was the only way to achieve quick times. Surley this makes the online leaderboards a bit of a joke if all the quickest times have been achieved through using an unreaslistic driving aid?
 
couttsy21
Wait? So does having SRF on give you better lap times? I was always under the impression that you got the quickest times with ALL aids turned OFF, that the driving aids were there for inexperienced drivers and that the people at the top of of the online leaderboards would also have them turned off.

I always drive with all aids off for 2 reasons A) it gives you more of a challenge to keep the car under control and B) up untill now i thought it was the only way to achieve quick times. Surley this makes the online leaderboards a bit of a joke if all the quickest times have been achieved through using an unreaslistic driving aid?
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That's true for aids like TCS and ASM - they just interfere with what you want to make the car do ie, taking away drive when traction is lost, applying the brakes when you try to slide. If you have the skill and feel, you are always sliding the tyres a little so those aids lilterally stop you doing that, hence slow you down. But SRF gives the tyres more grip, so its always going to be faster with it on.
 
Bottom line is whether SRF is on or off the same people are going to be at the top. People love to use whatever assist they can as a crutch to explain why they are not as fast as they think they should be. "Well, that guy is cheating me out of my spot because he uses TCS" or "real men don't use ABS" or some other nugget of arrogant elitism like that. For years on Forza I read people moan about how the top guys were somehow cheats because they used TCS. Or even worse, they used the racing line, which in their minds was some kind of magnetic magic line that when on automatically made someone faster. Yet, every time there was a competition or event that required no assists it was the exact same set of drivers that were at the top of every other LB. No different here, the top drivers with SRF on would be the exact same if it were forced off.

And lol @ the always funny cockpit view debate. No, it's no where near realistic and they're not even being included for "sim" purposes to begin with. It's eye candy for the casuals. They don't work well at all for actual door to door racing. The dashboards are all too prominent in every one and very few even give you a view of the rear view mirror, much less side mirrors. I swear, if you go back to PGR3 (the first major online console game to include cockpit view) and you were to give me a dollar for every time I got hit by some guy in cockpit view who would then in turn use his use of cockpit view as the excuse as to why he hit me because he couldn't see me I could literally retire. Literally.
 
GNR1987
And you're right, SRF shouldn't be forced on but rather an option. But I do think using SRF should void any official ranking in online/friend list leaderboards. I'd still like to see the SRF times posted, but have some sort of asterick, red-font or something to indicate SRF usage and thus not register them in the competitive ranking sense.
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I don't have any issue with SRF being optional,. WRT to your suggestion regarding the leaderboards, I suppose that's fair, as long as the same is done to anyone who takes an R18 or similar car and strips off 290 or more horsepower so they can squeeze into 450-550PP time trials in which the car wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be allowed in real life, since using the power limiter on an event-overmatched car like the R18 effectively grants them a free turbo and a TCS assist that naturally qualifying cars can't possibly match. Ah, but we're not supposed to recognize that little bit of gaming trickery, are we?
 
Vagabond
That's true for aids like TCS and ASM - they just interfere with what you want to make the car do ie, taking away drive when traction is lost, applying the brakes when you try to slide. If you have the skill and feel, you are always sliding the tyres a little so those aids lilterally stop you doing that, hence slow you down. But SRF gives the tyres more grip, so its always going to be faster with it on.
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Ahh i see. You mention that you can achieve quicker time with TCS & ASM off but what about ABS?? I always switch this off aswell, although Ive seen a lot of people on here saying they always have it set to 1? It does make controling hard braking much more challenging, but could it contribute to quicker times? Going back to the SRF, I dont think ive ever actually switched it on. Might try it tonight to see what the difference is like but wont revert to using this competitively. I want the driving experience to be as challenging and as close to real life as possible, and for me thats all aids off.
 
I would be happy if they give us filters in the leader boards...
SRF at least...
ABS,TCS, would be a bonus..
Also i would not mind if i could filter the wheel users...

I know, i never will be in the top 100, but at least i could compare my times with people who use similar set ups...
 
I set ABS=1 to accommodate more realistic brake bias settings. When ABS is set to off, I find that no car behaves like the ~ 4 dozen various cars I've driven in real life over the past 40+ years, from Honda Coupes to Cadillacs and everywhere in between. No simulation is perfect, even moreso on a game console using the computational power of a circa 1999 PC. ABS=1 allows me to set brake bias in such a way as to more accurately mirror real world brake bias ratios, instead of driving as if the brakes were "Skid-on" "Skid-off".

ABS=1 is close to real life. ABS off isn't.
 

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