So I can drive race car now ? ( in real life )

[BigYoSpeck]

It's a bit like driving different cars. I learned in a Pug 206 HDI, then my first car was a Metro GTI and the feel and muscle memory I'd developed in the Pug didn't just transfer. Biting point, throttle, steering and brake response was all different. It's only after a few years driving different cars that you learn how to adapt to a new car quickly.

If you learn to race in GT and then think that you've learned to race a real car you will be worse off than some one first learning in a real car who knows they don't know how to drive it. If you learn to race in GT but you are still conscious that you need to become accustomed to the real car before those skills will be any use then you will have a head start.

 

[danjama]

Top Gear did a great film about this. Clarkson's challenge was to take an NSX around Laguna Seca as fast as he could in GT4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-vPhbgGBlw

I won't spoil it for you. Enjoy!

Beat me to it!

PS. I fly flight sims (Mostly FS9 and IL2). When I had my first flying lesson a few years ago, my instructor praised me so highly, and allowed me to land completely solo, first time up in the air. That was in a C152.

However, that's different from driving/racing, as i had the whole sky to myself. The landing was the scariest part, even though i'd done thousands in a simulated environment. Nothing can beat the actual excitement of descending to the runway.

 

[Cavalryblood]

TG Mag did put the worlds best iRacer in a car he was familiar simming with. I think he did fairly well, but needed the physical fitness to perform well.

What season and episode was that?

 

[StogyBear]

I'm more curious about controlling the car when the car steps out. How accurate is GT5 to real life? In GT5 i can control the slide just fine but I'm scared shiitless to try it in real life. Don't wanna crash my car lol

 

[TakeshiSkunk]

Hah that TG segment was great, hadn't seen it before

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I'm more curious about controlling the car when the car steps out. How accurate is GT5 to real life? In GT5 i can control the slide just fine but I'm scared shiitless to try it in real life. Don't wanna crash my car lol

What's your car in real life? If it's a FWD or AWD don't even consider trying to get it to step out on public roads, it takes force to make them and if you get it wrong you're unlikely to bring them back in line. If it's RWD find an empty car park next time you get a wet Sunday and experiment a bit with using power to slip the back end slightly. Knowing how to handle a car doing that is useful in case it ever happens unintentionally on the road.

 

[danben7]

As someone who visits the track regularly, I'll tell you. No, it won't help you're driving. It WILL help you memorise a track if the track is modelled correctly, but it won't help you drive. Driving a simulator, even the ultra high tech ones where they have hydraulics trying to replicate the g-forces, are not the same as driving, they're getting better, but most people don't have access to this.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

As someone who visits the track regularly, I'll tell you. No, it won't help you're driving. It WILL help you memorise a track if the track is modelled correctly, but it won't help you drive. Driving a simulator, even the ultra high tech ones where they have hydraulics trying to replicate the g-forces, are not the same as driving, they're getting better, but most people don't have access to this.

GT Academy seems to be doing well at getting top virtual drivers do well in real life racing .

 

[scruffygreysei]

Biggest difference between racing on the track and Gt5 is that on the track you are reacting to physical movement, to the car sliding and moving on the track, I know that when racing my car will slide to a point then grip something that does take a bit of getting used to especially at 200k's. Under braking you have to modulate the brake pedal, race spec pads will heat up and generate more friction to the point of wheel locking if you just hit the brakes, you have to feel the brakes through your feet and let off the brakes just enough to prevent lock up yet keep the car slowing. In the game I struggle as its visual and there is no real feedback.
That said as others have said, its a good way of learning tracks and the way they go, go to your local Kart track and give it a go, you may be surprised.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

GT Academy seems to be doing well at getting top virtual drivers do well in real life racing .

That's more to do with the fact that those people are able to learn a skill to an exceptional degree, be it console racing or real racing.

Look at Top Gears reasonably price car score board. The people at the top of it are people who excel at what ever they do, be it sports people, actors, musicians or Simon Cowell.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Biggest difference between racing on the track and Gt5 is that on the track you are reacting to physical movement, to the car sliding and moving on the track, I know that when racing my car will slide to a point then grip something that does take a bit of getting used to especially at 200k's! Under braking you have to modulate the brake pedal, race spec pads will heat up and generate more friction to the point of wheel locking if you just hit the brakes, you have to feel the brakes through your feet and let off the brakes just enough to prevent lock up yet keep the car slowing.
That said as others have said, its a good way of learning tracks and the way they go, go to your local Kart track and give it a go, you may be surprised.

I have only driven a Kart once in real life and was my first time racing. I don't think it was a good idea though to jump into the deep end. My first session was a 10 minute qualifying session in 70MPH+ karts. I qualified 33 out of 35 lol. After looking at the time I did rolling up to my grid slot, I decided to go a lot faster. On the start I made at least 4 places and on Lap 4 I did a time about 5 seconds faster than my qualifying time. However I found it very easy to lock up the brakes and spin, did that a maximum of 2 times. I tried testing the braking limit but smoke from tyres came and locked up and span. Someone then hit me and then I decided it is not a good idea to practice braking in a 45 minute race as a newbie with 35 karts going around at speeds of close to 80mph. I think my top speed was around 76mph. I was wearing ordinary shoes so I had not much feel of the brakes though.

Next time I go I will get some racing boots. However I found playing racing games helped me as I found the speed was not an issue and I could look around the kart a lot better than some people. There was quite a few crashes and the fast guys didn't slow down so I had to move out the way quite a few times (They even apologised to me lol) but other slow people like myself got crashed into quite badly and off the track.

I did this before GT5 came out though and I found the kart in the game is a lot easier to drive fast, and braking is a lot easier. Maybe because it is a different kart and less of a fear factor.

 

[MLDoom]

I think the biggest thing the game doesn't teach you is fear. It's easy to go pedal to the metal around the corners without worrying about the real feel of crashing. Try that in real life - a certain level of fear really holds you back from really diving into the corners.

Secondly, in my opinion, the game cannot teach you about the weight of the car, which plays a huge factor in how someone tackles the corners as well. The feel in real life is just so different.

 

[StogyBear]

What's your car in real life? If it's a FWD or AWD don't even consider trying to get it to step out on public roads, it takes force to make them and if you get it wrong you're unlikely to bring them back in line. If it's RWD find an empty car park next time you get a wet Sunday and experiment a bit with using power to slip the back end slightly. Knowing how to handle a car doing that is useful in case it ever happens unintentionally on the road.

RWD 335i. I'm not a total noob a few times the back has stepped out and I saved it, im talking about the controlled drifts, where you want the back end to go out and control it through a curve.

 

[Wolfe]

I remember a guy who crashed at the nordschleife (first ever real world lap for him) and told the marshals: "It had worked on GT"

What really helps is to learn a new track (NOT Braking points etc)

As someone who visits the track regularly, I'll tell you. No, it won't help you're driving. It WILL help you memorise a track if the track is modelled correctly, but it won't help you drive.

Bingo.

I actually went to the Nürburgring in 2005 with my father. We opted to skip the 'Ring Taxi experience and I drove laps in a rental car, having never actually been on the track before. It was all perfectly fine for two reasons:

1. Even though GT4 only released in February of that year (I went to the 'Ring in June) I had actually been lapping a virtual Nordschleife for many more months before that, on Project Gotham Racing 2. Inaccurate as that version was, it taught me all the corners, and it only took a small amount of time with GT4 to adjust to the "real" layout of the track.
2. My father -- no doubt wondering why he ever agreed to not only let his 18-year-old son take a rental car on laps around a racetrack he had never seen before, but also ride along -- squawked "SLOW DOWN!" uncontrollably any time I began brushing 90mph, regardless of the straightness/curviness of the road ahead. He wasn't angry at all, but he was certainly a reluctant passenger.

The funny thing is that I hate GT4, but while we toured the museums before doing our laps, they had a room with a whole bunch of PS2s and GT4 set up; my father jokingly suggested I "practice" first on the wheel-and-pedal sim rig. Nervous that the hyper-sensitive snap-overcorrection in the game's physics would catch me up and turn him off from our plans, and knowing I wouldn't really enjoy the lap, I reluctantly agreed. Fortunately, I was able to casually demonstrate my knowledge of the corners in a lap with the BMW M3 GTR (race version), with no crashes or offs. My dad admitted he felt better about the whole thing after that.

Even with the "paternal brake" firmly engaged, we (roughly) timed my lap to be about 12 minutes, which I was content with, all things considered. I was mainly hampered on the straighter sections; though I only engaged ABS once on the damp track, I was pushing that 525i touring pretty hard. I only wish they'd had a smaller BMW available (we chose the 5er to avoid a ForTwo or VW Polo), or that the car had a manual transmission. Next time...

If anyone's interested, the original GTPlanet thread where I detailed my experience can be found here. (Warning: Teenaged emoticon overload. Boy, did I write differently back then...)

----------------------------

Getting back to the point of the thread, I didn't have a great time at the Nürburgring because Gran Turismo taught me how to drive there (in fact, it helped that I despised GT4's physics and didn't trust them one bit). I had a great time at the Nürburgring because Gran Turismo taught me what all of the corners looked like.

The only racing simulator I've tried that has "made" any tangible improvement upon my driving skill (and the only one I think could really help anyone else) is Live for Speed for the PC. Everything else is too grippy, too vague, too "sterile," and often just plain inaccurate. Yet even in LFS, you don't "learn how to drive" because you can drive in the game. It merely helps you practice what you already know or can learn elsewhere.

At its very best, a proper, realistic sim is a tool. Not a "teacher."

I feel I should also note that while Gran Turismo 5 is a pretty good sim, it's still pretty far from the level of "properly realistic." Don't try this at home, kids. If you must, do what I suggest below:

RWD 335i. I'm not a total noob a few times the back has stepped out and I saved it, im talking about the controlled drifts, where you want the back end to go out and control it through a curve.

Like BigYoSpeck told you, a well-worn tradition among RWD drivers is to take the car to an empty parking lot on a wet or snowy day and have at it. The reduced traction makes it easier to get what you want, and at much slower (safer) speeds. As a bonus, at least in my area, the most hassle you'll get from any authorities is a "hey, you can't do that. Move along." Maybe not so much on a rainy day, but certainly in snow. As long as you comply and leave, there won't be any trouble. 👍

 

[crisco_21]

That's more to do with the fact that those people are able to learn a skill to an exceptional degree, be it console racing or real racing.

Look at Top Gears reasonably price car score board. The people at the top of it are people who excel at what ever they do, be it sports people, actors, musicians or Simon Cowell.

Thats a bit much... You can act well or sing well so that makes you a better driver? All pro hockey players are great singers and actors as well.

All the people on the show are exeptional people that is why they are at the top and bottom of that score board, when has aveage Joe nobody taken a lap on the show??

 

[7HO]

I learnt the fundamentals of driving from an arcade game called Hard Drivin. Then one day a friend who had his license drove me and my motorbike to a spot we thought we wouldn't get hassled riding at. He went for a ride and was gone a long time and I was worried he broke the bike or injured himself so I decided to get in the van and go look for him. It was a long wheelbase Toyota Hi-ace van with manual column shift and it was parked right next to the river in a difficult position that required me to reverse out carefully with little room for error, I managed fine due to the basics I learnt in that arcade game.

Not long after that we moved onto a large property and I had a Ford Escort to thrash around in, even though that arcade game was primitive the fundamentals I learned translated to real life very well and I was able to build upon them. I never had a real driving lesson, I am totally self taught and in real life the best talent I am considered to have among my friends is my driving skill.

After I got my license I decided to have a go at Karts, the local club had a day where you able to try Kart racing in a Kart with an unrestricted J motor, while I was having a go two club members who raced in the senior national class came out for practice and we had a great 3 way battle going. I felt pretty good about myself considering it was my first time in a Kart and I was able to compete with guys who did it every week. I have never been able to afford to race in a real racing class but I have taken my own car out on track days and had a blast.

Gran Turismo isn't going to teach you clutch control but it will lay down the foundation of what to expect when you start driving a car fast and you can build on that in a real car. I don't know about where you live but in Australia they hold track days where you can have a go and some have instructors and provide a car and you can have a go even if you have never driven a car before. Considering kids can race here before they are allowed to legally drive a car on the road I'd say you can go race and I'd say your experience playing GT5 will no doubt make you a better driver than you would be if you had no experience at all. Of course if you went racing with no experience other than playing GT it is unlikely you will be competitive at first.

 

[Sohvakettu]

The GT academy winners have all had atleast some karting experience outside of sim racing.

 

[Nielsen]

I think it helps a little when it comes to predicting how your car will react in critical situations. I came into a bad spin on an icy road a few weeks ago because I had to avoid another car which didn't see me coming. Luckily I saved it without any real life experience in how to do so and many times since I have thanked GT5.

But driving a race car is much different but I think we all have a good feeling when it comes to how it will handle.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Thats a bit much... You can act well or sing well so that makes you a better driver? All pro hockey players are great singers and actors as well.

All the people on the show are exeptional people that is why they are at the top and bottom of that score board, when has aveage Joe nobody taken a lap on the show??

Acting and singing isn't a straight forward learned talent, they're pretty much things you either can or can't do but I'd be willing to wager if you took 10 top hockey players who are hugely competitive and skilled, they would as a group be able to learn to drive faster than say 10 office administrators as a group.

Most people who are exceptionally skilled at something are usually multi talented because the same obsessive behaviour that drove them in their speciality drives them in anything they do.

 

[RikkiGT-R]

Top Gear did a great film about this. Clarkson's challenge was to take an NSX around Laguna Seca as fast as he could in GT4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-vPhbgGBlw

I won't spoil it for you. Enjoy!

Awesome. I'd heard about that but never seen it before. 👍

.....................................

Once my warranty is up on my car (2 and a half years time), I'm going to take it to the Nürburgring. But first I'm going to do some weight reduction on it (remove the seats etc), upgrade the suspension (lower, stiffer); stuff like that.

Then we'll see if GT has taught me anything. Or maybe I'll just end up killing myself

 

[Tommy_861]

Acting and singing isn't a straight forward learned talent, they're pretty much things you either can or can't do but I'd be willing to wager if you took 10 top hockey players who are hugely competitive and skilled, they would as a group be able to learn to drive faster than say 10 office administrators as a group.

Most people who are exceptionally skilled at something are usually multi talented because the same obsessive behaviour that drove them in their speciality drives them in anything they do.

This is true, recall in the past guys who played 2 pro sports like Bo Jackson.

In regard to this thread, the only track in this game I've been on in real life is the Daytona 24 Hour course, and let me tell you its WAY more terrifying in real life (although there is no retaining wall on the backstretch and frontstretch, just cones which makes that a little less scary.) I can say for sure it is modeled almost EXACTLY and the braking points are fairly exact (I was driving a formula car on there IRL and theres nothing really in the game thats similar aside from the FGT which is far faster than what I drove). The only minor difference is in real life the infield pavement is a little slippery compared to the rest of the track (although I was on there in 2004, they may have repaved since), which the game does not show.

That all said its just not the same, the game can teach the basics of racecraft, and definitely teach you the tracks very well and how a car can behave on different types of corners. But racing is a talent that you are born with, and as well, something that you can only hone on the track in real life. Theres just so much more that goes on than what you can see and what you feel through the steering wheel.

One more example, I've done rally driving and when I'm on a tight course i usually use up all of the vacuum assist on the brakes in the first few corners and and don't really get it back till a straightaway, the game doesn't model that but basically the pedal has no feedback at that point and you just have to know how much pressure to give it to make the car turn.

 

[Mike712]

A game can not prepare you in any way for the sheer brutal acceleration and G-forces you will experience while driving a really quick car on a track.

However good the force-feedback is, it can not accurately portray all the forces you are feeling while driving a real car at high speed, or even simulate realistically the "feel" you get through the steering wheel about what the tyres are actually doing and grip levels.

I've driven a 599 and 911 turbo on a track in Surrey and the only thing I could bring in from my virtual racing experience was knowledge of racing lines.

Being pinned in you're seat as you accelerate from 2nd gear, unleashing the full 611 BHP potential of a ferrari V12, overtaking a 360 modena at over 150mph then breaking hard into a chicane is a visceral experience that can never be fully experienced in a game.

 

[JayJonesJunior]

are you an athlete?

 

[Mike712]

are you an athlete?

Well while it is true that you need to be an athlete to be an F1 driver, there are plenty of out of shape, fat old guys that perform very well in many of the other higher categories of racing such as GT and LMP. I know a retired 60 year old that used to rally competitively in his Subaru impreza and classic Mk1 escort.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Top Gear did a great film about this. Clarkson's challenge was to take an NSX around Laguna Seca as fast as he could in GT4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-vPhbgGBlw

I won't spoil it for you. Enjoy!

Yea... Your way, way, way off there man. I actually couldn't think of a worse example to show your point.

You call a 50yr man, whos probbaly barely played a game of any sort in his life, let alone even a hint of a fair go or dedication on a real racing sim, who gave gt4 a whirl in a few minutes with a controller a "great film about this"?

On top of this, he was using a ps2 controller with the d-pad for steering and x and box buttons for brake and accelerate, and he was playing on gt4s massively flawed physics, but like that even mattered with all the other things that made that segment for entertainment value than any kind of actual insight into what is being discussed in this thread.

Heck even a kid born and raised in the woods by a pack of ps2 controllers and gt4 doing nothing but playing gt4 all his life wouldnt even get 1% of the game to real life benefit your regular gaming and car enthusiats indivudial would with a proper sim setip and something like gt5 or i-racing.

 

[Mike712]

Clarkson is actually a bit of a dab hand on GT, his NSX Leguna Seca lap was pretty damn good.

 

[masmullin]

GT Academy seems to be doing well at getting top virtual drivers do well in real life racing .

Are they? I've only seen the '08 episodes, and the guy who won (Lucas Ordonez or something like that) was a former kart racer (he is a good driver and thus could translate his skill to GT5 rather than being good at GT5 and translating his skill to the road).

The second place guy... the taxi driver... wasn't allowed to compete in the race.

 

[AlexGTV]

Clarkson is actually a bit of a dab hand on GT, his NSX Leguna Seca lap was pretty damn good.

Don't believe what you see on TV. He pretended to be running that clean lap. GT needs practice to drive clean, let alone competitively, so I question he did put the hours.

 

[Patrocles]

I remember a guy who crashed at the nordschleife (first ever real world lap for him) and told the marshals: "It had worked on GT"

What really helps is to learn a new track (NOT Braking points etc)

haha

I think the game is too forgiving for my Laguna Seca corkscrew runs, too! There is no way I could getting away with some GT5 physics in RL.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

Don't believe what you see on TV. He pretended to be running that clean lap. GT needs practice to drive clean, let alone competitively, so I question he did put the hours.

To be honest the lap time he put in was a good few seconds off pace (1:42?) which would be about right with the driver aids left on so I could quite believe it was his lap.

Who says he didn't put the hours in anyway? Other than a few hours of filming and a few paragraphs in a paper he's not exactly burdened with work leaving plenty of time for research which is what most journalist/columnist do with their down time so they have something to report.