So I'm either buying the Thrustmaster T500 or the Fanatec GT2 - but which one?

[RC45]

Really, you missing the bit that the largest profit margins go to the retailers. Whatever Fanatec would sell at to wholesalers they will want their cut then the retailer also theirs. So the Fanatec wholesale price would easily be half of the retail price point. Oh and thats roughly around the 800 - 900 amount he stated.

I wast aware the T500 was a big box walk up to store item?
Currently their own website has not been updated to where it will be available and you seem to not realise production of this may also be restricted to initial batches to see how it fares in sales.

While I cannot relate this to everwhere the information for the UK press release states it is only available via HMV and Amazon.co.uk

So far it is avaiilable to pre order on Amazon UK but not yet on HMV's systems nor their website and hasnt been confirmed if available online only or also at select stores.

If anything it looks like they are carefully selecting where to sell these and that more than likely allows those etailers / retailers to avoid any pricing wars meaning high discounts are unlikely unless coming direct from the Manufacturer.

The product would not need to go through a wholesaler, it go directly from Fanatec to the retailer. And with regard to "profit margins" that is the part where Fanatec forego the "big profit" up front and go for volume over time.

Just because they sell to use end users at $300 doesnt mean that they are required to sell them to the retailer for that - infact it would make no sense what so ever - and if the unit costs are $200 atmthe moment they would leverage the vloume orders from a big box store to bring the unit cost down.

Anyway, discussing the virtues of a retail marketing strategy with a reasonable retail price is a moot point because Logitech have proven it can be done. Could they have launched their wheel at $500 back in the day, probably, considering the global economy was stronger, people had screeds more disposable income and "consumption" was the in thing. They chose to go with $300 and sold many 10's of thousands of units through the big box stores.

If Fanatec and Thrustmaster choose to go the path of the ECCI's more power to them.

And speaking of the direct-sales models, Fanatec was quick to process my PayPal for the GT2 wheel, CS pedals and shifter - only shipped the wheel and I have not heard a peep from them with regard to expected delivery for the shifter and pedals.

And this long into their product lifecycle the pathetic cusomer service has no place or no excuse even if the "CEO" does visit forums.. we need service, not pandering.

While I believe Thrustmaster will have the "service" their product is going to severly lack quality. You can take that to the bank - if it is being assembled/manufactured in China that is a given these days.

 

[markydjay]

It's the same in everything.. seeing the specs doesn't mean it will deliver really good...

Just like seeing a price doesn't mean it will be overpriced.

I'm not saying the 500 will be the daddy I just wish people would hang on for reviews before they jump the gun and say it's overpriced or even that it's fantastic. No one is qualified to comment on the 500 until they get behind one.

 

[greekbull]

@RC45 it's pretty clear on the Fanatec website when your shifters and pedals will be shipping. Pull up their page and it clearly states "out of stock" "preorders will ship January 2011" for both the Shifters and Pedals. I myself am waiting on a set of shifters that I preordered a couple of weeks ago but I'm not worried about updates since we're not into January yet! The Fanatec website seems to be very good about letting you know when your product will ship and it was dead on accurate with the ship date of the GT2s.

 

[RC45]

@RC45 it's pretty clear on the Fanatec website when your shifters and pedals will be shipping. Pull up their page and it clearly states "out of stock" "preorders will ship January 2011" for both the Shifters and Pedals. I myself am waiting on a set of shifters that I preordered a couple of weeks ago but I'm not worried about updates since we're not into January yet! The Fanatec website seems to be very good about letting you know when your product will ship and it was dead on accurate with the ship date of the GT2s.

Nope, on Fanatecs US Webshop, the page from which you oder their pedals, there is no indication that they are "out of stock".

None what so ever.

Porsche wheel Shifter set
[PW SS] $49.95



For more Pictures
klick here!!

Currently not available! New pre-orders will be shipped in January 2011

Set of 2 external shifters with authentic look and size and a strong haptic feedback.

This is the blurb on their shifter page - and even so they should be reqpying and CONFIRMING that a persons prePAYMENT has been accepted and that a preORDER has been created.

At this stage I hav no idea of knowing if I am in fact a preORDER or just an order.

Clubsport Pedals USB
[CSP-USB] $199.95



For more Pictures
klick here!!

A Masterpiece of engineering made of Aluminium and with the use of contactless sensors and a load cell sensor for the brake. With ForceFeedback actuator on the brake and fully adjustable.
Works like a separate USB input device and you can connect it directly to several Porsche Wheels.

This is the blurb on the CS Pedal page. No indication of an "back order" status.

There is no doubt that for the nearly $580 spent with the company, they are the poorest communicators I have ever had to do business with.

I have been waiting to hear something - the one time i did email them I got some garabage generic response asking for a video upload and soem other tripe.

I seriously hope it wont take the threat of legal action to at least get some communcation bak from these folks.

I always vow to never again do business with mom and pop establishments, then I always breakdown and regret giving them yet another chance.

Seriously, how hard woudl it be to have a standard response for orders, a periodic update for standing orders to confirm your real status and then some indication that you are inline to receive the product on the next shiping cycle?

 

[advan031]

I ordered anyways knowing that they are backordered all the way back to china. You can always ask for ur money back if u r that unhappy with a company.

Speak with ur wallet.

 

[RC45]

I ordered anyways knowing that they are backordered all the way back to china. You can always ask for ur money back if u r that unhappy with a company.

Speak with ur wallet.

But that isnt the point really is it though. The only leverage one has is if you have paid and they now need to honour your payment with some level of service - it really is a sad state of affairs if a companies first line of defence is "Well, you could always cancel and get your money back". What about just conduct decent business in the first place - communicate, communicate, communciate.

We are all subject to delays, unforseen circumstance, suppliers whims, product issues etc - but what differentiates the alsorans from the truely good, is communication. And none of us mind odering backordered items, but some type of acknowledgement of priority would be nice.

My only real issue is that even after ordering a backordered item, customers receive no order confirmation that they are in fact "on the list" to receive the product at the next shipping cycle. At the current time, they have no obligation to ship product to anyone who preordered and did not receive any type of confirmation. You as the customer essentially have nothing to backup your claim to product on the next shipment, other than your PayPal invoice. And this in no way shows you are "on the list".

If they are doing all their US business by way of this Endor distributer and this poor communciaiton is all theirs, perhaps Fanatec needs to step up to the plate and hold their US distributor more accountable - better communications would be nicer, that is all.

 

[advan031]

I understand what u mean...hope they get better down the road.

 

[Gunstar]

I ordered, changed my mind and was refunded in a flash. I'll order from them again one day, but I just didn't need to wait... good things can be worth waiting for tho!

 

[RC45]

I ordered, changed my mind and was refunded in a flash. I'll order from them again one day, but I just didn't need to wait... good things can be worth waiting for tho!

One hopes so

 

[Fanatec...]

I agree that we still need to improve our service and we are still working to implement a CRM system because it is impossible to us to manually inform all customers about shipping dates. The advantage of our system to be able to select only the components you need has the disadvantage that logistics are much more complicated. It is more simple to just sell one complete wheel/pedal/shifter package.
So in 2011 you will get improved service because this is on top of my to do list. Promised.

 

[ahmedvortex]

Mr Fanatec , finally I've found a way to contact you , I have e-mailed you in all the sites related to fanatec with no answer lol , I want to pre-order the "499" gt2 cs pack , and I have a little problem with paypal , please help me to fix it .

Thank you and sorry for bothering .

 

[Shecki]

I agree that we still need to improve our service and we are still working to implement a CRM system because it is impossible to us to manually inform all customers about shipping dates. The advantage of our system to be able to select only the components you need has the disadvantage that logistics are much more complicated. It is more simple to just sell one complete wheel/pedal/shifter package.
So in 2011 you will get improved service because this is on top of my to do list. Promised.

👍

 

[Mr Latte]

I look forward to seeing Fanatec get on top of things better. It is a shame such products are marred by the companys operations at times.
I know Stega here and some online friends have also spent a lot of money with multiple purchases facing the same customer service issues. It doesnt inspire confidence for possible future orders. Particulary when on various forums you read the same thing over and over with people having issues even getting a response or action being taken.

One other thing perhaps for the New Year List that needs sorted is shipping charges for small items.
I cant speak for all regions but heres an example:

1x Shifter paddles to the UK. (Or orders upto 0.5kg)
Costing 17.00 Euro to ship

Seriously their has to be a cheaper solution Thomas.

 

[RC45]

I agree that we still need to improve our service and we are still working to implement a CRM system because it is impossible to us to manually inform all customers about shipping dates. The advantage of our system to be able to select only the components you need has the disadvantage that logistics are much more complicated. It is more simple to just sell one complete wheel/pedal/shifter package.
So in 2011 you will get improved service because this is on top of my to do list. Promised.

But surely accepting payment for an out of stock item OBLIGATES you to respond to EVERY order placed. Yes, MANUALLY if need be.

Does this take extra effort? Sure it does - so what? That is just another "cost of doing business" in a preorder/back order world.

The response could be a canned response - but it does need to take place. This gives the preorder customer some ground to stand on.

There are apparently many people who have preordered the shifters, if you are now claiming to have no way of responding to people to indicate whether they are "on the list" or "off the list" to receive the shifters, how do you even know then who needs to be shipped the shifters when they become available?

You dont need a new CRM system, you need a NEW business manager that is all. If you are accepting orders and accepting payment for items you do not have in stock, then you are obligated to have a system of managing those incoming payments and assigning them to orders and customers.

It is not only an accounting requirement, as a mailorder company operating in the United States selling across state lines you are obligated by a slew of Federal and Postal laws to keep track of your payments and orders.

This means you already have all the information you need.

Now all you need to do is respond to those that have ordered with confirmation that are either "on the list" or "off the list". You already offer the backordered customer a chance to for a refund or wait out the backorder time period, so youhave the pieces in place.

Running foul of these rules could prove very messy for your US operations. Accpting mail order payments for out of stock items is not to be taken lightly.

So again, who of the prepaid people are set to receive shifters in the next shipping run?

And if the Club Sport Pedals are out of stock, why are you still accepting orders and payments for said product without any clear indication of the "back order" status?

Seriously guys - the mail order business model is not new and many companies with far more products and many more customers and fewer employees have succesfully managed these issues (backorders, preorders and deliveries) long before every small business had access to powerful computer systems and cheap software.

It just takes organization.

 

[crox]

I think the point, that people have issues with Fanatec's customer service, has been made. Thomas has acknowledged some issues and says that he'll be working on them. At this time, it seems fair to more or less drop this subject or take it to private communication between the parties involved; Thomas would be foolish to engage in every criticism aired over the internet, and is as much a part of GTP as any of us.

I'm not a moderator, this is not an ultimatum, it's my opinion.

 

[RC45]

I think the point, that people have issues with Fanatec's customer service, has been made. Thomas has acknowledged some issues and says that he'll be working on them. At this time, it seems fair to more or less drop this subject or take it to private communication between the parties involved; Thomas would be foolish to engage in every criticism aired over the internet, and is as much a part of GTP as any of us.

I'm not a moderator, this is not an ultimatum, it's my opinion.

The fact is that many have spent a lot with Fanatec - and the issues are LEARNED after the fact. Not everyone spends every live moment online keepin gupto date on company business practices.

This is a thread about someone who needs to decide whether to spend money with company A or company B. The issues people have with either company is topical to the disussion.

He would not need to "engage in every criticism aired over the internet" - he should just get the job done correctly the first time, then there would be no need for "internet discussions" of any sort as all issues would be dealt with "between the private parties" long before they got public.

Notice how the number 1 complaint from everyone is communication (or lack thereof) - surely that says something, and really has no bearing on whether Thomas is as much a part of GTP as any of us.

 

[thedeester1]

I wont be buying the Thrustmaster....The last Thrustmaster product I had broke...It was a joystick for combat flight sims...Given the price of the wheel I will avoid it due to past experience....Not gonna shell out that much an something that will break....Will have to read some reviews for many a month before I even consider the Thrustmaster. IF Thrustmaster made a decent wheel then I might consider an upgrade from my g25....since theyre selling second hand more than I payed for it. I dont think GT5 is ever gonna support the Logitech G25/27.....a sponsorship deal has been done. They need to sell wheels....My advice is buy a G25 from E-bay....they work well and have great FFB....wont work on Xbox though....or wait a few weeks and monitor the complaints from the thrustmaster wheel...

 

[Simmpa]

I have the GT2 wheel and I am so disappointed, the mounting mechanism is the worst I ever seen, it doesn´t hold to the table at all and it feels very sluggish. I have also got the 888 message of death on the lcd display when connecting it to the PC.

 

[rebla47]

To be fair: If we would have to sell the GT2 through normal distribution channels we would have to charge about 800 to 900 for it.

Lucky for you have not need to offer GT2 at this price; you would have had to eat all with potatoes...

We can only offer it at that price due to our direct sales strategy.

Fortunately, the big companies can better adjust their prices, because with a larger-scale production they get better prices per unit produced. And the same goes for the distribution, which does not happen in your case.

Reading the specs, I don't see that the Thrustmaster is overpriced if you compare it to the Logitech wheels.

If there are overpriced wheels, are just yours. GT3 v2 and GT2 wheels are just the same, and people is paying around 150 € more for the Xbox exclusive compatibility. Is insane...

Although nobody has yet to test it, the benefits advertised in the T500RS are well above any other commercial wheel (and near professional ones).

When knowledgeable people buy a racing component, want to spend money in robust parts and quality mechanical componentes with high performance, not a piece of plastic wrapped in alcantara with a high-end brand car logo.

 

[Patrocles]

I agree that we still need to improve our service and we are still working to implement a CRM system because it is impossible to us to manually inform all customers about shipping dates. The advantage of our system to be able to select only the components you need has the disadvantage that logistics are much more complicated. It is more simple to just sell one complete wheel/pedal/shifter package.
So in 2011 you will get improved service because this is on top of my to do list. Promised.

Excellent! 👍

After reading about the many customer relations problems, shipping concerns, and unit quality issues across the internet I have decided to not order a Fanatec wheel/pedal unit at this time.
Once you get the customer relations, shipping, and unit quality issues under control I will be placing an order with Fanatec. Hopefully, this will be in late January/early February.
cheers! please have a happy and safe new year!!

 

[qwertyuiop123]

Excellent! 👍

After reading about the many customer relations problems, shipping concerns, and unit quality issues across the internet I have decided to not order a Fanatec wheel/pedal unit at this time.
Once you get the customer relations, shipping, and unit quality issues under control I will be placing an order with Fanatec. Hopefully, this will be in late January/early February.
cheers! please have a happy and safe new year!!

I agree with you.

Once Fanatec has their quality control of their wheels and pedals under control, I would order one immediately.

 

[versapak]

If there are overpriced wheels, are just yours. GT3 v2 and GT2 wheels are just the same, and people is paying around 150 € more for the Xbox exclusive compatibility. Is insane...

How do you figure they are just the same?


Because they look alike?

The GT2 supports two completely different force feedback systems. It is wireless. Xbox 360 licensing is not free, especially for their wireless tech. It has system specific lighted buttons (not an expensive feature, but one that I definitely appreciate all the same).


If you do not have a 360, then it would be hard to justify the price difference, but that does not at all mean it is overpriced. 360 compatibility is huge, and I and thousands of others gladly paid the asking price to have it.

Heck... The only reason the GT2 even exists is because 10,000 PWTS wasn't enough to satisfy the demand for that 360 compatibility.



.

 

[Mr Latte]

I disagree to an extent because with the PWTS it helped fund the development costs and was a LTD Edition. Now the GT2 is here surely a small price drop on the X360 feature could happen. £150 / €180 is approximately 2x the price a MS wheel could of been bought for. While it's not insane as he labelled it. It is however a lot to pay for that technology in the same wheels.

EDIT
(Corrected pricing in below post)

The reason they charge what they do is they have the Market/Feature to themselves and can. It also lets Fanatec keep the Non X360 supported wheels at competitive prices by having such a premium on the ones that do.

In the end it is a big improvement over other X360 Wheels. You want that you have to pay for that luxury.

 

[Fanatec...]

Why do you assume that we were able to get our return on investment on those 10.000 PWTS? In fact we still have to sell quite some wheels to just break even. It costs a fortune to develop this stuff. Guess why nobody else jumped into that market. The MS license is available to everyone unlike the very restricted and proprietary system on the PS3.

 

[Mr Latte]

Why do you assume that we were able to get our return on investment on those 10.000 PWTS? In fact we still have to sell quite some wheels to just break even. It costs a fortune to develop this stuff. Guess why nobody else jumped into that market. The MS license is available to everyone unlike the very restricted and proprietary system on the PS3.

I didnt assume you did cover development costs.
I said it "helped fund development costs" as each sale the company makes will go towards your initial dev costs and overheads?
Consoles get discounted as their sales increase but can take several years before being profitable to manufacture. You face the same thing with G27 now being available cheaper than it was a year ago so the difference in price between your or a competitors wheel increases.


Possibly as shown here part of the problem is your package prices are confusing as they differ in what they offer. One package called Clubsport is different to another wheel package also called Clubsport. Prices are also different if you buy pedals and wheels seperate but better promoting of savings made in buying as a package could be used to highlight this saving. In all I think some find it confusing Thomas and it could be simplified.


Example:

GT2 Wheel = 250
GT3 Wheel = 180

To correct the earlier mentioned price and my own earlier post. X360 feature then costs 70 extra between wheel prices.
(Thats much more like it)

GT2 Clubsport package includes Shifter, Logitech Adapter and Carbon Shifters costing 105 if bought seperate and thats what maybe gives the impression the X360 support costs so much at first glance looking between the two Clubsport GT2 / GT3 Wheel packages.

Just a thought though.

 

[Sele1981]

Yeah agreed completely! The difference from 70€ between both wheels is ok! But the Clubsport edition price is insane! 180€ more only for the shifter and the carbon paddle extra...

Would be awesome if the GT2 CE will cost ~380€ - 400€ without shifter and this carbon paddle... Would order it right now... Still waiting and hoping that Fanatec will bring an different CE set for the GT2...

 

[markydjay]

Just to add my two pence worth. I'm not really intending buying a Fanatec in the near future but when I was looking a little while back I was quite put off by how confusing it is that all the wheels offered look so similar and it isn't really clear what the differences are and what level each one is at. I figured out eventually but it's not very obvious without a lot of comparing on the website.

Also I know it's been said a whole bunch of times on other thread but, the Porsche branding on everything is a bit tiresome. Seems a bit like Fanatec are trying to hide behind a bigger name that will push the brand. You're Fanatec so BE Fanatec, not Porsche.

 

[crox]

Sele1981, I think you math is a bit off. Using US prices:

GT2: 250
GT3: 180

CSP: 200

GT2 CE: 500

So it's 50 extra for the shifter and paddles, not 180.

 

[Sele1981]

Don´t forget the CE prices!

GT3 CE = 320€
GT2 CE = 500€

In the GT3 CE you pay much less for the pedal or the wheel

Nevermind, just ordered the GT3 CE fpr 320€... Let´s see how it is...

 

[Patrocles]

Just to add my two pence worth. I'm not really intending buying a Fanatec in the near future but when I was looking a little while back I was quite put off by how confusing it is that all the wheels offered look so similar and it isn't really clear what the differences are and what level each one is at. I figured out eventually but it's not very obvious without a lot of comparing on the website.

Also I know it's been said a whole bunch of times on other thread but, the Porsche branding on everything is a bit tiresome. Seems a bit like Fanatec are trying to hide behind a bigger name that will push the brand. You're Fanatec so BE Fanatec, not Porsche.

FWIW, there is a PDF chart available for download at their site showing the differences/similarities between the wheels and pedals(?). They should make this file DL more pominent to help customers decide what wheel would work best for them.



edit...ok, it is at the bottom of the product page on each wheel. click on "feature comparison" and it will bring up the pdf. this info is very helpful. maybe it would be better suited if the link was also clearly marked on the HOME page for reading (at least it is not on my U.S. HOME page)?