So... I'm going to ask!

[MistaX]

Here's a hint: My dad did it once in his Neon for a full day just to test out his new exhaust and he had to order a new clutch the next day.

Dare I say your father can't drive?

Have to let the RPMs fall to where they need to be before letting the clutch out in the next gear.

Then again it's a Neon, so it's bound to break anyway.

 

[YSSMAN]

My issue is, aside from the ridiculously idiotic button on the side of the transmission lever: the transmission displays the gear you select regardless of whether it is actually in that gear or not.

I don't recall that happening when I was driving the Malibu around, so it may have been an error in the particular vehicle. This being said, the last Malibu I drove was a pre-updates (engine, transmission, interior) Malibu LT, the first of the Epsilon models here in the US. It may have used slightly different stuff.

...Although, if you're keeping track of the gears in your head, I'm uncertain why it would be a problem. Then again, driving a manual, you're more likely to do that than someone who had or has always driven an automatic...

Really though - why should having a clutchless tranny in a F-car be a crime? The F1 tranny is faster dammit! Unless you mean any non-manual or SMG in which case I somewhat agree though the grand touring models (456) should probably be available with an automatic in order to suit the driver's needs. I'm not sure, though, that we'll ever see another fully automatic Ferrari (now that the F1 transmission has an automatic mode).

While I don't completely detest the idea of the F1 transmission, as it has done wonderful things for Ferrari, I still have somewhat of a negative view of the cars without the gated boxes. Quite honestly, its much the same story with Lamborghini as well... IMO, the gated boxes are the perfect way of expressing that Italian attitude on the inside of the car, and the snick-snick action is sorely missed by comparison to the baw-baw sound/motion that the new gearboxes have replaced it with.

Call me old-fashioned, a purist, whatever, I still prefer the old way. I seem to remember a sat in Motor Trend a few years back that said, upon arrival of the 575M, that fewer than 20% were going to be outfitted with true manuals worldwide. My soul almost died on that day...

But hey, the good news is that until Porsche gets their DSG program sorted out, the only reasonable option is the true manual, as God intended!

 

[1X83Z]

I don't recall that happening when I was driving the Malibu around, so it may have been an error in the particular vehicle. This being said, the last Malibu I drove was a pre-updates (engine, transmission, interior) Malibu LT, the first of the Epsilon models here in the US. It may have used slightly different stuff.

No, it's the way it's designed and it's the same in all of them. Trust me - drive another and you'll agree it's absolutely ridiculous. Don't even get me started on the fact that in order to work the system at all you have to shift into 'Low'. UGH!!!!!!!! It's so so so so so stupid and the thing about displaying the gear it's not in is just horribly frustrating. I hope I never own an American car built as shoddily as the ones I drive so frequently.

Call me old-fashioned, a purist, whatever, I still prefer the old way. I seem to remember a sat in Motor Trend a few years back that said, upon arrival of the 575M, that fewer than 20% were going to be outfitted with true manuals worldwide. My soul almost died on that day...

Well remember the theory there was that since the vast majority of 550s got manuals, Ferrari decided the 575 would mostly be F1 trannys.

But hey, the good news is that until Porsche gets their DSG program sorted out, the only reasonable option is the true manual, as God intended!

33% of 911 Turbo buyers choose Tiptronic.

 

[YSSMAN]

No, it's the way it's designed and it's the same in all of them. Trust me - drive another and you'll agree it's absolutely ridiculous. Don't even get me started on the fact that in order to work the system at all you have to shift into 'Low'. UGH!!!!!!!! It's so so so so so stupid and the thing about displaying the gear it's not in is just horribly frustrating. I hope I never own an American car built as shoddily as the ones I drive so frequently.

I do recall having to shift into low, and furthermore, if I recall correctly, in the earlier models it wouldn't allow you to shift into fourth gear that way... But, it has been about three or so years since I last drove an Epsilon I Malibu, so the finer points are a bit fuzzy. I do seem to recall it displaying the correct gear in the cluster though, but I could be mistaken...

Good news is that GM, for the most part, is fixing it. The new Epsilon I.V models look to be quite good, and the Epsilon II models hold quite a bit of promise. They're moving forward, unlike Chrysler and in some cases Ford, so its a start... And with Toyota and Honda, IMO, falling back, things continue to look better...

33% of 911 Turbo buyers choose Tiptronic.

Those folks should be taken around back and shot in the head... But they get a free pass. If I recall, the team at Porsche said the slushbox models were purpose built, and if I recall were supposed to be quicker, but I'm uncertain of what the final draw was there.

...But, this is why Porsche builds cars like the GT2 and GT3...

 

[1X83Z]

Good news is that GM, for the most part, is fixing it. The new Epsilon I.V models look to be quite good, and the Epsilon II models hold quite a bit of promise. They're moving forward, unlike Chrysler and in some cases Ford, so its a start... And with Toyota and Honda, IMO, falling back, things continue to look better..

How hard is the inclusion of a simple manual shift gate - like every single Kia on the market (except the Rio)? Hell I've driven the new Kia Sedona and even it - this is a MINIVAN mind you - has a manual shift gate. But God forbid GM do this right.

 

[Gil]

On topic: A shift at low revs doesn't let the engine work too hard.
For the record a low revved V-8 will usually live one day short of forever, if it is properly maintained.
My mother had a 1971 Ford Galaxie 500 that never got "beat on" unless I was driving it. I shortly found that the 351W is a gutless wonder when equipped with a 2-bbl carb. That stopped my beating on it. But that damn car had about 380,000 miles on it when it finally gave up. It had never had the heads or oil pan off in all those miles. Yes, it was a dog performance wise, but it was like the proverbial anvil for reliability.

Most V-8's don't need to make a lot of revs to be in the meat of the powerband. And most newer cars will shift at lower RPMs unless they are driven at WOT. My Camry shifts well under 3000 RPM in "normal" driving.
If it WOT it won't shift under 5000 RPM.
It's all about throttle position.

 

[Tornado]

Have to let the RPMs fall to where they need to be before letting the clutch out in the next gear.

The car was 10 years old when the clutch went.

 

[MistaX]

The car was 10 years old when the clutch went.

So don't try and blame another cause.

You can drive at WOT all day shifting at redline and it's not going to do any damage to the car unless YOU do something wrong.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

No using clutch = you a wussie

^ I second to that!

No clutch = More boring

 

[JCE]

You can drive at WOT all day shifting at redline and it's not going to do any damage to the car unless YOU do something wrong.

Hahahahaha! That's the funniest thing I've read all week. You just do that and let us know how long it takes to blow something. You will most CERTAINLY do damage to something by "driving all day at WOT" much less shifting at redline all day. I hope you were being sarcastic...

 

[foamy_302]

for my input I LOVE driving a manual.
and you really don't need a clutch to drive one(lol try it someday)
and there is no way the volkswagen is a performance vehicle.
remember it's a poeples car

 

[1X83Z]

and there is no way the volkswagen is a performance vehicle.
remember it's a poeples car

Um. Your driving experience comes from a Mazda Protege and a Plymouth Reliant.

Drive the Volkswagen, then comment.

 

[foamy_302]

good point. but i don't have that liberty. do i. just read motor trend or car and driver everynow and then. check the data on the pages of those magazines. compare any VW ( except the Nardo) to most Performance cars.

 

[1X83Z]

good point. but i don't have that liberty. do i. just read motor trend or car and driver everynow and then. check the data on the pages of those magazines. compare any VW ( except the Nardo) to most Performance cars.

Well duh - compare them to competitors' cars and you'll find they have a LOT of performance. I'm not talking about comparing a Jetta to a 911 here but Christ, drive a Jetta and then drive a Sentra and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I've driven every small sedan on the market save the Civic and my comments echo everyone else's: if you want sportiness, you have to buy a Volkswagen.

 

[foamy_302]

or a buick(j/k) ok i know what ya mean. but traditionally VWs are generally plain family movers

 

[Eric.]

and you really don't need a clutch to drive one(lol try it someday)

How did you miss this part, Doug?

What is the life expectancy of that Protege?

 

[V1P3R]

Christ, drive a Jetta and then drive a Sentra and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

Pssft... that's a no brainer, I'd sooo take a Jetta (not the new ones, previous gen) over the Sentra but there's no way in hell I'd be seen in a Jetta.

 

[YSSMAN]

As a two-time Volkswagen owner, my stance on the issue is that while the models are far more "sporty" than that of your average Toyota or Chevrolet, they are by no means equipped in many forms for "exciting" driving. My Jetta (a '96 GL Wolfsburg), while several times more "sporty" than your average Corolla or Cavalier of the same era, Volkswagen still managed to equip the car with rather spongy springs/shocks, and furthermore some of the most inadequate anti-roll bars on a production vehicle.

Did I change them? In a word, no. Will I change them? No to that as well.

To Volkswagen's credit, in much the same way BMW strikes the balance between comfort and handling (leaning towards handling), Volkswagen has managed to turn most of their vehicles into well-balanced machines, that may in some cases lean a bit more towards comfort. But, like Doug pointed out, even the "comfortable" Volkswagens are still miles ahead of some of the competition.

Simply put, Volkswagen fans are crazy. Myself being one, I wouldn't deny it. Look at the resale values on the 2004 R32 as a shining moment in how strange we really are, or for that matter, just how many Volkswagen models, no matter the trim level, are often optioned with the manual transmission. Volkswagen fans are dedicated to driving well-built, solid, and furthermore "connected" vehicles that offer a driving experience unlike any other. Built upon the success of the Beetle, we continue to see many of the same traits passed down in the Rabbits, Jettas, and even Touraeg 2s that are on our streets today.

...And even though I'm a die hard GM fan on the outside, cut me and I'd probably bleed VW. They are damn-good cars, and whats great is that even in Michigan, they are accepted as the awesome cars that they are...

Now, if I could ever find a reasonably priced Passat W8 4MOTION with the six-speed manual...

 

[MistaX]

Hahahahaha! That's the funniest thing I've read all week. You just do that and let us know how long it takes to blow something. You will most CERTAINLY do damage to something by "driving all day at WOT" much less shifting at redline all day. I hope you were being sarcastic...

No, you really won't. Unless you took that like I meant shifting WOT, which I didn't.


Anyway you can very easily go flat out all day assuming you had the room to do so, say an oval, and it will do nothing but run out of gas.

 

[Picc84]

Ah, I gots it now, thanks guys. after playing with both, I see what your saying on both ends.

Hey, Off Thread topic abit, but i'm changing now, at this post... lol.

My cousin just bought a 02? I THINK! BMW 325xi. They fast? He claims it is, never saw it over 120...

 

[foamy_302]

they would be DAMN FAST compared to what i drive.
and i'm not talking about the Protege when it comes to dry shifting and revmatching.
it's a fact that if you can match revs just right then you can drive without a clutch.
get a beater(i.e. my old Honda ) and try it someday.

 

[1X83Z]

but traditionally VWs are generally plain family movers

Um.

Okay I'm done with you.

My cousin just bought a 02? I THINK! BMW 325xi. They fast? He claims it is, never saw it over 120...

They're slow relative to competitive products. Only 184 horsepower and the all-wheel drive system slows them down a lot too. Regardless of transmission I'd say about 8.3sec 0-60 based on BMW's claim that a (rear-drive) 325i with an automatic did it in 8.1.

 

[YSSMAN]

That BMW would be "quick" compared to most "average" cars out there these days, but it isn't a sprinter. Actually, a similarly priced VW GLI (1.8T or VR6) wouldn't have too hard of a time beating it. Its just a shame they never sold the cars here with 4MOTION...

 

[1X83Z]

That BMW would be "quick" compared to most "average" cars out there these days, but it isn't a sprinter. Actually, a similarly priced VW GLI (1.8T or VR6) wouldn't have too hard of a time beating it. Its just a shame they never sold the cars here with 4MOTION...

Compared to most cars these days the BMW would be slow. Remember, the new Toyota Sienna does 0-60 in 6.8 seconds. However this is a lot different from when the BMW came out - back then it would've been considered decently quick.

 

[toyomatt84]

Why do they say you get better gas mileage in a stick then?

Because when you sit at idle, you can have the transmission disengaged on a manual car, where as you can't on an automatic. Plus, if you're good enough at it, shifting gears requires less fuel. Oh, and when you're doing highway driving, you can choose to stay in a single gear to pass someone, where as in an auto. you don't get a choice.

 

[1X83Z]

Because when you sit at idle, you can have the transmission disengaged on a manual car, where as you can't on an automatic. Plus, if you're good enough at it, shifting gears requires less fuel. Oh, and when you're doing highway driving, you can choose to stay in a single gear to pass someone, where as in an auto. you don't get a choice.

The third point is barely valid, because it happens so infrequently.

The second point was discussed.

The first point is invalid for three reasons. One, idle already uses almost no gasoline, so neither transmission has much advantage there. Two, who says automatic owners can't shift into neutral at stop lights? I used to do it all the time (to no gas savings - see 'one'). And three, many cars idle in neutral at the same engine speed - or even higher - than they idle in first gear. My dad's automatic Toyota idles about 200rpm higher in neutral that in 'drive.'

 

[bennyrrr]

Im gonna secong doug on this one. My Mom's 05 Toyota Sequoia sits near 500 RPM at idle, and about 1000 RPM in drive. Same with my sisters 06 Corolla S and my dad's 01 Tacomma V6 Prerunner.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Im gonna secong doug on this one. My Mom's 05 Toyota Sequoia sits near 500 RPM at idle, and about 1000 RPM in drive. Same with my sisters 06 Corolla S and my dad's 01 Tacomma V6 Prerunner.

Wouldn't that go against Doug's statement that many cars idle higher in the RPM range in neutral than drive?

 

[Thiele]

When we're driving our 1992 Magna, the redline's like 6000, but at an accelerator speed to reach 100, it shifts at like 2000-3000, but we were running late this morning and it changed at 4000. It also changes later when the engine's cold. (I'm not sure if that's true but it happens with ours)