Why is GT7 so boring?

  • Thread starter Sinisalo81
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Anything that "simulates" a race of any kind, can be described as a racing simulator, but you wouldn't call timed Crash Bandicoot stages a racing simulator, you have to set the bar somewhere. Ridge Racer was a racing simulator, it simulated cars racing, as was running wild, it simulated cartoon animals racing. Where is the line?
That is finally a point that contributes to the discussion at hands.
To me the line would be drawn to make the easy distinguish between games that dont aim to replicate real world physics and those that at least try to some degree.
Cartoonish things are not a simulation usually, but an exaggeration generally, they are meant to break the borders and I think everyone will agree it would be wild to call this "racing simulator".
Not what I said, so please cut the straw man argument.
Yes, that is what you said.
No turning back there.

"It is possible to be 3 laps faster than the lead car in a chase the rabbit but still lose".
"A driver in any real world racing league that is starting from behind is chasing the rabbit, propably faster in every single lap than the lead car but can still be behind".
 
Yes, that is what you said.
No turning back there.

"It is possible to be 3 laps faster than the lead car in a chase the rabbit but still lose".
"A driver in any real world racing league that is starting from behind is chasing the rabbit, propably faster in every single lap than the lead car but can still be behind".
Not in the manner that Chase the rabbit in GT7 works, which is the context I'm using. As such ignoring that context is very much creating a straw man.

Nor does my post come close to claiming that MV starting from the pit lane mean he's not been in a race. That's a claim my post doesn't make, yet you attempt to attribute it to me (ergo a strawman). Pit lane starts in F1 are a punishment for an infraction, not the norm for race starts.

All you need to do to disprove the above is list the real world racing series that conduct rolling starts in the manner GT7 does.
 
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While the format of the races is not as per definition of 99% of race series you can enter, Handicap races exist in the real world that follow a very similar format to GT chase the rabbit:

Bentley Drivers Club Handicap races

&




The definition of a Race is not just what you see in popular race series, the end goal is to race to the finish line regardless of where you start really & chase the rabbit style fits this.
Whether you dislike this style or not it doesn't detract it from being a race.
 
My mistake again. If Verstappen starts from the pitlane in an F1 "event", manages to get the fastest lap but unfortunately fails to win, I now recognise that he has not been involved in a race at all, he has been knitting. Got it!
John Watson - Long Beach - 1983

Jenson Button - Circuit de Gilles Villeneuve - 2011

Sergio Perez - Sakhir outer loop - 2020

These are classic examples of a "burn from the stern" victory. All three are correctly heralded amongst the greatest of all time. However, they are exceptions, not the rule.

Much like Kimi Raikonnen at Suzuka in 2005 or Olivier Panis at Monaco in 1996, they are outliers, not the norm.

Thus, returning to a key point, there is no motorsport to my knowledge where one driver is dictated by the rules to start at the back up to half a lap behind the leader. Which racing is being simulated? Please answer.
 
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While the format of the races is not as per definition of 99% of race series you can enter, Handicap races exist in the real world that follow a very similar format to GT chase the rabbit:

Bentley Drivers Club Handicap races

&




The definition of a Race is not just what you see in popular race series, the end goal is to race to the finish line regardless of where you start really & chase the rabbit style fits this.
Whether you dislike this style or not it doesn't detract it from being a race.

Similar, but once again not the same as GT7. GT7 doesn't handicap you based on performance. If you take a car with the lowest PP rating on the grid in GT7 you don't start at the front, as you would in handicap racing.

To be clear, I'm not saying what happens in GT7 isn't a 'race', it is in very loose terms. I'm saying that it's not a simulation of any form of real world racing.
 
That is finally a point that contributes to the discussion at hands.
To me the line would be drawn to make the easy distinguish between games that dont aim to replicate real world physics and those that at least try to some degree.
Cartoonish things are not a simulation usually, but an exaggeration generally, they are meant to break the borders and I think everyone will agree it would be wild to call this "racing simulator"
But Ridge Racer is simulating a race, you are racing against other cars/the clock. Running Wild simulates hypotheitcal hybrid animals racing one another. They're racing simulations.

Or do we draw the line where you want to draw it? Or whose to argue that a racing simulation needs to simualte realistic damage, simulate real racing conditions, pit stops, have tyre pressure etc. Or do we drop this whole "racing simulation" nonsense and actually address points as they are intended in the context in which they are intended?
Yes, that is what you said.
No turning back there.

"It is possible to be 3 laps faster than the lead car in a chase the rabbit but still lose".
"A driver in any real world racing league that is starting from behind is chasing the rabbit, propably faster in every single lap than the lead car but can still be behind".
No, he very much didn't say that.
 
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GT7 does a lot of core things better than any previous GT game, graphics, physics, sounds, dynamic weather, AI which is actually really good in some races.

But then it drops the ball massively in other areas. I get why some people like it, but I just cannot get into it. The game lacks a decent structure and as a single player experience feels a lot shallower to me than it should.

I feel like GT7 as a whole, feels like a lot less than the sum of its individual parts. And thats down to game design decisions.

There's a major lack of imagination in the single player career mode, especially when it comes to the World Circuits events. The custom race feature is oddly limited so you can't use it to the games full potential and regardless is not an excuse for the lack of imagination in the pre-made events.
Lacks structure? Hello GT cafe , take menu after menu and there you have your structured single player.

If it was called instead “GT paddock” in a motorhome in a paddock and the menus was “road book” to GT world champion, people surely wouldn’t complain and say it is a great “career mode” with lot of information of cars and so on.

I don’t think GT7 has a bad or non structured single player
 
I don’t think GT7 has a bad or non structured single player
Meanwhile, other GTs:

Feel free to roam the single player and do any events you wish! Make sure you also acquire the licenses as necessary.

But in all seriousness, the problem with the structure is it's too good. Very limited on what cars you can drive, and you literally
take menu after menu
and it ends up making the game super linear and unimaginative. Sure, after you complete the Café portion, you have the freedom of choice.

But by then, the game feels really empty. Not to mention the licenses are still not utilized, and we're lacking our endurances, which should always be the hardest races to complete due to length, and not these 30 minute races that PD loves to toss around.

Wherever are the endurances we were promised?
 
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Please name all the other sim racing titles that use the chase-the-rabbit format as a mainstay of their career mode.
To a lesser extent (edit: and pending definition of "sim" :lol: ), FM does this now too. Or did at launch; I don't know if they changed it in response to fan reaction like they have started to do with other things.

Of course you can qualify (which you can't in GT), and the events I recall trying were all grid starts (very, very rare in GT, except at CdBC Rallycross) but ultimately you decide your starting position from 3rd to 24th and you cannot start in positions 1-2. The clearly boosted lead AI then sods off until it gives up at a point appropriate to your AI difficulty setting (the higher the setting, the further into the race they throw in the towel) after you've worked your way through all the cars between you.

It's definitely waaaaay more extra in GT though.
 
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Lacks structure? Hello GT cafe , take menu after menu and there you have your structured single player.

If it was called instead “GT paddock” in a motorhome in a paddock and the menus was “road book” to GT world champion, people surely wouldn’t complain and say it is a great “career mode” with lot of information of cars and so on.

I don’t think GT7 has a bad or non structured single player
Lacks a decent structure. If you want to quote me, quote me, don't write something I didn't, and respond to that. That's wasting your time and mine. The game could have one track and two races, win the first to access the second, that's a structure, it's not a decent one though.

The GT Cafe menu structure is very poor, especially when compared to previous numbered Gran Turismo titles. Not only is the structure poor, but the format of the races that make up that structure are also poor.

None of that is to say there there's absolutely no enjoyment to be had from it, but GT7's single player is less than the sum of it's parts and it could have been excellent.
 
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And yet the races are presented without context as to how they differ from the motorsports they attempt to simulate. At least back in GT4 when the chase-the-rabbit format was introduced they actually explained how it works.
Sorry, Scaff. I don't talk to mods.
 
I can understand why threads like these keep being made, people want to rant and they want people to hear it. I also can sympathize these now as I made my opinions on GT7 more on the negative side. At least for the career mode, which is one of the big reasons why I play a GT game.

I understand that Sport was a low spec titel...but GT7!!!

1. Where are this good old Cars like Opel, Volvo and all this DTM and STW cars?

2. License and missions, with stupid Cars total boring with this "dont hit a wall or come of the track" also in missions. Only little Cr. for Silver
Yeah, GT7 didn't quite turn out to be the true return to form that Polyphony Digital had advertised. It feels more like GTSport, though at least the customization is more in-depth and there's better custom race features (still needs a lot of work)

With that said, PD just hasn't choosen to license and model the cars you seem to want yet. I do miss the DTM and STW cars from the past games. We got the Alfa 155 back and PD even added a newer DTM with the 2019 Audi RS5 DTM. We still have a long way to go before DTM is better represented in GT again.

Though I'm confused on why you're complaining about the license tests. It sounds like you have played the older GTs before and the licenses haven't really changed much.
3. AI in races is a joke, in every difficulty, i drive 150 races at same track and every time the other cars in every round at same position on track. it make no sence if i break them out or crash them, always the same. Like Spawning in every round at exactly this position. Time penalty always for me, never see a NPC must break, the most drive his line always the same, blue flag...doesn't matter! No Gas, no problem...they drive 10 rounds slow around...dont use pit lane...realy bad programming.
The A.I. has been an honest joke since GT5, I can't really explain why PD continues to make them this easy. The only bright side is that there are some events with chili peppers attached that provide good racing, so we know that they can make good A.I.. There's also the sophy A.I. quick races, though they only exist in limited capacity. That brand of AI is still too new and needs more time to be refined.

Based on one interview I recall from Kaz himself, he said he wanted to cater the A.I. to casual players rather than the hardcore drivers. I'm guessing he expects us to rely on online racing only if we want a challenge, which heavily annoys me.
4. Race from last position...where are the real start on stand...Qualification. Real Racing!
There are standing start races, they're the chili pepper events I mentioned before with the better A.I. You also can do standing start races in custom race mode. Sadly, they're not including qualification, probably because it would take away whatever challenge the chase-the-rabbit races have.

6. Statistics...Racing with no Stats...only best Place and fastes Lap...with witch Car??? How many races.
7. Dirt Races...think frozen lake fits better to this physics. Anyone of them always drive Offroad race????
I skipped number 5 as it's already been explained that customization is part of GT. For number 6, there is a status screen for things like that. Though I'll admit things are a bit all over the place, the menu organization in GT7 has been blah.

For 7, are you asking if there's dirt races. There are a few dirt tracks with races, though I wouldn't say they're the best. Offroad racing in GT7 isn't that great.

8. Drag Mode (Missions) why they dont part of races?
I have no idea why PD won't add a proper drag race mode to be honest, I agree that it's absolutely dumb that the only drag events are just driving missions. It's another case of having the ability to add something, but they choose not to do it for some reason.

Basically, Polyphony Digital has not cared for the single player career much at all and make it so they're adding events in slow incrementions for a dumb live-service model.

Basically, if you wanted to play Gran Turismo 7 for a fun, single-player racing experience that matches the old GT games (GT1-4). It's going to be a major dissappointment for some players. For any challenge, you have to play either in online lobbies or sport mode.
 
The real reason why GT7 is boring is because all the cars in the game aren't available as rental cars.

Whether it's the game modes of World Circuits (Quick Race, Time Trial, Drift Trial and Custom Race) or Split-Screen Race, the fact that Polyphony haven't even bothered to make every car available as a rental car may have also contributed to the game's design of excessive grinding.
 
@Sinisalo81 look what you've started!

Just kidding, in all seriousness though... Wading into the Championship debate, in my personal opinion a Championship isn't a Championship if the game allows you to quit a race and start it again without sending you back to Race 1 to start again. I'm surprised with all the rebuttals here in this thread, nobody has mentioned this yet.

PS: I think GT7 is great, in general.
sry :)
 
I drive 200 races in GT-R GT500 08 at Sardegna - Road Track - A to grind money for legend cars.

Setup at 800pp and i can drive 8 rounds on fuelset 5, rest of 15 laps at 4. Easy.

Now i drive NationCup...with BoP Setings 804,xx PP, look i can drive 30+ rounds with the same fuel!!! Funny.
Speed is to low for catch this RS5 DTM or CLK-LM98...dont can Set anything on this Races to make this car faster, buy GT500 16, same ****. So for what are this BoP settings when i finisch 4th...and have 25sec to the leader.

Take position 2 with no Pitstop...wait 1min time penalty for dont go switching tyres!!!! WTF
Online its more difficult...but also pointless...when yo dont use the Top Car in the game for this Event...also no fun.
No option to switch settings on car that have nothing to do with performance or weight!
 
Well, the single-player can be considered boring in some cases. I can't say that chase-the-rabbit A.I. and time trial challenges tickle everyone's funnybone for fun gameplay experiences.
 
6. We all want more stats... but there is still a lot given depending on where you look.

9. Delta times between you, first place, the car ahead and car behind are available in every race unless you're in VR. What more do you need? The time between you and 17th place?
6. all, a game based on XY cordinates it is so simple...Telemetri tools show it that it can be showed. Mean i have more infos on my Dirtbike LOL. CAR, Track, Time full Race, Fastes Lap, Setting PP or BoP and show other players fastest turn on same conditions.

9. ahead and behind available till 2min in lead of second...than you see nothing. Yes i need time between me and the next car, and car behind...so simple

On my dirtbike i see

1.
time to leader
time next in front
time next in back
fastes lap
my fastes lap
2.
complete track on Google-Maps
every breakingpoint
every cornerspeed
jump wight (airtime)
jump high (airtime)
corner outline, corner inline, which line is faster over all rounds
speed on all points on track
G-forces on all points on track
and i only have a for 1. a transponder and for 2. a GPS-Sensor

can all see between or after race, and compare with others they use also the GPS
 
The real reason why GT7 is boring is because all the cars in the game aren't available as rental cars.

Whether it's the game modes of World Circuits (Quick Race, Time Trial, Drift Trial and Custom Race) or Split-Screen Race, the fact that Polyphony haven't even bothered to make every car available as a rental car may have also contributed to the game's design of excessive grinding.
I really would have liked this as a feature, but it should not hurt the progression of the game — as little as it is.

Doesn't have to be the entire car list either. It could just be only "key" machines for each class or car type. Polyphony can choose to make the car too expensive to rent long-term, add a cooldown, lock settings, etc. Lots of ways to implement it.

In fact, you could just have it be a modified form of the recommended car page from back in the day. With Sophy as a test driver, selecting suitable cars for this task could be a cakewalk.
i1JvBv2NLm4ySEc.jpg
 
I really would have liked this as a feature, but it should not hurt the progression of the game — as little as it is.

Doesn't have to be the entire car list either. It could just be only "key" machines for each class or car type. Polyphony can choose to make the car too expensive to rent long-term, add a cooldown, lock settings, etc. Lots of ways to implement it.

In fact, you could just have it be a modified form of the recommended car page from back in the day. With Sophy as a test driver, selecting suitable cars for this task could be a cakewalk.
i1JvBv2NLm4ySEc.jpg
It won't hurt progression in any way, as such a feature could be structured similarly to Forza where, if GT7 were to have all the cars in the game available as rental cars in World Circuits and Split-Screen Race, there will be some restrictions in place, such as the following:

  • They can only be raced in Quick Race, Time Trial, Drift Trial and Custom Race in World Circuits, and cannot be used in career mode events, the Paddock or other game modes outside of World Circuits or Split-Screen Race. Players will return to their currently-selected car from the Garage once they end their World Circuits session with a rental car.
  • Custom liveries cannot be used with these cars; only car-specific default colors can be used. They also cannot be upgraded or customized in any way. You can, however, choose the tire compound for these cars.
  • Setup tuning on rental cars will only be based on the car's default setup, using whatever parameters are available.
  • Daily Workout progress will not be earned driving a rental car.
 
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Before GT7, I can recall playing only one GT game for 10 hours at the most way back during the PS2's life cycle. So for a mostly first-timer and an old-timer, this is the best VR game I've ever played. I have played some really good ones over the past 4 years. This has provided more enjoyable hours and never could I describe it as boring.

Humbling is a much better way to describe it.

There are days when I start to feel confident and accomplished in my journey with this game. Then there are moments like today when I counted how many vehicles are in my garage that have 0 miles on them. The count was 187. I'm over here with grandiose delusions that I am in a gaming equivalent of a loving and lasting relationship where knowledge, skill, and opportunity are starting to merge. But then my new love looks me dead in the eye like...

john_snow.gif
 
The things that made past GT games great are a bit lacking in GT7 (single player career is a shell of what it was in GT4 for example), then when you add microtransactions and... well you get the idea.... There's a lot of things that can be done to improve GT7 which are simply ignored. Take the rim selection. They've not added ANY new ones in the past couple of months, yet doing so would be so easy and everyone would love it! I'd like at least a hundred more of the more popular ones thanks, and I wouldn't care if they costed 20 grand a pop if they're that strapped for cash! but one can dream, most likely we won't get any since GT8 is going to try to be "bigger and better". Can't make GT7 look too good...

Another bothersome thing..Since we don't have drag tyres (odd), I'd much rather they increase the ballast in an update. It bothers me how you can't remove weight reductions. Fine. But I want to be able to add more ballast. 200kg is so easy IRL. Just throw in a few tyres and you're there.

The ballast should be increased to 500kg maximum. Just so I can put SOME weight back into the car I OWN! And also for realism... a full car can easily have 5-6 people in there.. of various ballasts.. This would allow players to make all sorts of funny handling cars too, wheelie cars that normally could not wheelie due to the limits or idiosyncrasies of the physics engine. IRL muscle cars can wheelie, in GT7 the tires and suspension design prohibits this in most cars. So we shove the ballast to the rear, then it finally pops a wheelie.. The whole "GT7 is the greatest GT yet we still can't do X Y and Z after so many years of buying GT games" is a sticky situation for a fan of the series, sum might say. It's daft.
 
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