So who's guilty?

  • Thread starter Carl.
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Who should be sued?

  • Total voters
    57
Carl.

Carl.

2,767
So who should be sued for sunday's fiasco?

- The FIA for not being able to finding a solution
- Michelin for bringing faulty tires
- The Michelin teams for not running and playing political games.
- Ferrari for not accepting a compromise
- IMS for the track surface
- Bridgestone for keeping quiet about similar issues they there had weeks ago.

Multiple choices allowed.


For me, the term FIAsco is rather appropriate. :D [/bad humour]
 
jpmontoya
So who's guilty?

- The FIA for not being able to finding a solution
- Michelin for bringing faulty tires
- The Michelin teams for not running
- Ferrari for not accepting a compromise
- IMS for the track surface
- Bridgestone for keeping quiet about similar issues they there had weeks ago.

Multiple choices allowed.
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I voted for Michelin + FIA.
I voted for FIA because they are a bunch of c**ksuckers
and Michelin because they knew on Friday afternoon.
Why could'nt they just get new pairs of tires for the Michelin teams and resolve
the problem after the race?
 
jpmontoya
So who should be sued for sunday's fiasco?

- The FIA for not being able to finding a solution
- Michelin for bringing faulty tires
- The Michelin teams for not running
- Ferrari for not accepting a compromise
- IMS for the track surface
- Bridgestone for keeping quiet about similar issues they there had weeks ago.

Multiple choices allowed.


For me, the term FIAsco is rather appropriate. :D [/bad humour]
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How many people do you think would vote for the FIA?
 
Michelin and IMS. Michelin should have brought a 'safe' compound, but IMS should have made the track available for testing because of the change in track surface (not the resurface but the cutting).
 
ExigeExcel
Michelin and IMS. Michelin should have brought a 'safe' compound, but IMS should have made the track available for testing because of the change in track surface (not the resurface but the cutting).
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👍 👍 👍 totally agree with you
 
I voted for Michelin ,and The Michelin teams .The company should have known better,and the so should the teams.They knew they had a problem,yet no one acted upon it,as if they wanted someone else to save their as*es,or worse .........they just didn't give a damn :scared:
 
I think, like others have posted, we have seen the first move by the 'rebel teams,' because their indifference to the FIA and the Formula Championships may have given them the courage to commit an act that they otherwise might not do. This situation reeks of the political issues rather than the simple issue of tires not functioning.
 
LoudMusic
I voted for all of them - they're all a bunch of whiney little *****es.
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What I'm about to say isn't just directed towards you, but anyone who feels this way.
Yeah, I mean, Bridgestone coming prepared with a tire that can handle the banking, and Ferrari at least trying to put on a show for the fans, yeah, damn whiney *****es :rolleyes:
Whoever voted that it was Ferrari and/or Bridgestone's fault is a moron and doesn't have an ounce of competence. Do you honestly think if the situation had been reversed that the Michelin teams would have made any compromises for the Bridgestone teams? If you answered yes, then you're a bigger moron than I had originally thought. The only reason this was such a big deal is that the majority of the grid is on Michelin. Had it been Bridgestone, nobody would have cared, because it would have made the anti-Ferrari crowd happy because they were "getting what they deserve" - which is apparently a by-product of success, determination, and innovation - and we all know that is something that you should automatically hate because you don't have it yourself, right guys?
Forget the fact that Bridgestone and Ferrari have struggled all year long, and had tires failing at Spain. Nobody cares about that because everyone has an agenda against Ferrari because they, and partner Bridgestone, have been successful in the past. Also, don't give me this bull**** about the fact that Bridgestone's sister company, Firestone, produces tires for the IRL who ran their 3 weeks ago, so they had data. This would obviously be true, but wouldn't have helped them an ounce in regards to tire construction, due to the drastic differences in the cars, and obviously, the tires themselves.
It was no secret that the track was resurfaced, and Michelin should have been better prepared. Also, Michelin even said themselves it wasn't so much the fact that the oval section was resurfaced, but it was that the tires couldn't handle the banking. The problem with this is, Michelin isn't stupid. They didn't just start producing racing tires last night. That banked corner didn't just pop up over night. And this wasn't Michelin's first race on this circuit layout, either.
The plain and simple fact is that this season, while Bridgestone has been slower, they have produced tires (for the most part) that have been built with durability as number one priority, whereas Michelin has had speed as their number one priority. This finally caught up with Michelin this weekend, as they tried to extract too much grip with a too-soft-tire, and they weren't strong enough to withstand the massive g-loading that turn-13 had to offer.
You may hate Ferrari, you may be enjoying their sub-par season this year, and you may be bitter because of what happened on Sunday, but what you cannot do is blame Bridgestone for bringing a tire that was equipped to handle the track layout, for Michelin's deficiencies. You also cannot blame Ferrari for wanting to race.
Let me remind you that, it wasn't Ferrari's fault that Michelin brought a marginal tire.
It wasn't Ferrari's fault that Michelin wouldn't allow their teams to race.
It wasn't Ferrari's fault that the FIA vetoed the options Michelin put forth to change a track to suit their problem.
It wasn't Ferrari's fault that the teams didn't chose an option to race for 0 points, or go through pitlane.
And finally, despite what many have read and heard, Ferrari did not veto the option for a chicane, because they were not consulted about it. This has been verified by Jean Todt, Ross Brawn, and even Frank Williams said Ferrari was not a factor in the decision, as they were not part of the decision making process. The origin of which this rumor gained speed was from Paul Stoddart, and we all know his feelings about Ferrari.

You may hate Ferrari, you may wish they lose the championship this season, and that is fine by me. But don't blame them, or Bridgestone, for a problem that was originated by someone else, and none other - Michelin.
 
Majarvis
Forget the fact that Bridgestone and Ferrari have struggled all year long, and had tires failing at Spain. Nobody cares about that because everyone has an agenda against Ferrari because they, and partner Bridgestone, have been successful in the past. Also, don't give me this bull**** about the fact that Bridgestone's sister company, Firestone, produces tires for the IRL who ran their 3 weeks ago, so they had data. This would obviously be true, but wouldn't have helped them an ounce in regards to tire construction, due to the drastic differences in the cars, and obviously, the tires themselves.
It was no secret that the track was resurfaced, and Michelin should have been better prepared.
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Let me quote another time the key sentence in the article, in case this wasn't already obvious enough.

"they experienced something they (Firestone Tire) had never seen before and unexpected"

And so on the first morning they're forced to abort their test session, originally scheduled to last two days. We were at that point two months before the USGP, with IMS, NASCAR, IRL and the Michelin team schedules already filled. Had Bridgestone run for the first time on the new track surface last friday, they would have had the same issue.

I don't know who doesn't get it really, but currently on both CBC and TSN websites, in sports sections (in french for now), the headlines are currently about this article. (perhaps because of some e-mail someone may have sent to them yesterday evening... at about 17:51pm)

I guess they did publish this because they're a bunch of morons and don't have an ounce of competence about F1??
 
jpmontoya
Let me quote another time the key sentence in the article, in case this wasn't already obvious enough.

"they experienced something they (Firestone Tire) had never seen before and unexpected"

And so on the first morning they're forced to abort their test session, originally scheduled to last two days. We were at that point two months before the USGP, with IMS, NASCAR, IRL and the Michelin team schedules already filled. Had Bridgestone run for the first time on the new track surface last friday, they would have had the same issue.

I don't know who doesn't get it really, but currently on CBC and TSN websites, in sports sections (in french for now), the headlines are currently about this article. (perhaps because of some e-mail someone may have sent to them yesterday evening... at about 17:51pm)

I guess they did publish this because they're a bunch of morons and don't have an ounce of competence about F1??
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Thank you for just proving my point. Michelin isn't stupid, do you think they sit in a corner and twiddle their thumbs all by themselves? They read motosports news, and would have known about this. They are a very intelligent company, and should have come prepared with a harder, tougher tire as a backup (which they didn't even have - a backup that is).
Either understand what my point is and have a post worth contributing, or never mind. If Bridgestone did it, Michelin could have. The fact of the matter is that they have been pushing the envelope all season long, and it finally caught up with them.
And as far as your attempt at a whitty comeback, my reference to being a moron and having competence were about blaming Ferrari and Bridgestone for what happened on Sunday, I never said anything of the sorts towards Michelin.
As a side note, that link your provided has little relevance, as the track was diamond-ground after that test, which yielded far better results.
 
Majarvis
Thank you for just proving my point. Michelin isn't stupid, do you think they sit in a corner and twiddle their thumbs all by themselves? They read motosports news, and would have known about this. They are a very intelligent company, and should have come prepared with a harder, tougher tire as a backup (which they didn't even have - a backup that is).
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Read again my post, search the dictionary for the word "unexpected".

Either understand what my point is
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I understand the point you're trying to make, I just don't agree with it.

and have a post worth contributing, or never mind.
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I know, I'm just an imcompetent moron who likes to post nonsense and who should shut up. (did I get your point right there?)


If Bridgestone did it, Michelin could have.
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An I am the one who don't understand your point...

The fact of the matter is that they have been pushing the envelope all season long, and it finally caught up with them.
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there's a HUGE difference between tires who worns too fast and tires who don't last 10 laps. It caught up with Firestone too in April...

And as far as your attempt at a whitty comeback
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Thanks. Being belittled is my favorite passtime.

my reference to being a moron and having competence were about blaming Ferrari and Bridgestone for what happened on Sunday, I never said anything of the sorts towards Michelin.
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Here, I don't get what you're saying.
 
I voted for Michelin and the FIA. Michelin, because as the rules state, they should have had a backup tire even if it was a slower tire and the FIA because they could & should have found a compromise that would have allowed the Michelin tired teams to race.

Majarvis
...and Ferrari at least trying to put on a show for the fans...
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Yeah real good show 2 Ferrari's racing round the track against, no opposition. As Martin said during the race, there was very few laps that they were actually at full race speed and 3/4 of the race over they are told by team radio to stay in their current positions, so once again Schumaker makes sure he finishes first by fair or fowl means. At least this time he didn't take anybody out of the race completely!!!! Maybe he is growing up after all...

And the US fans really appreciated the display from Ferrari didn't they, leaving in droves after the race start...
 
TMM
And the US fans really appreciated the display from Ferrari didn't they, leaving in droves after the race start...
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LOL, I wouldnt be suprised if they were dumb rednecks thinking they were going to see some "bad-AZZ-circle-racing-action"

The United States doesnt appreciate the Formula 1 series. If you look at NASCAR now it is really just beginning to become popular with larger amounts of people with the changing of the Series name to Nextel. All NASCAR drivers do it whine and ***** about something that happened earlier in the race. I think its really funny when they try and drive the rally-esque cars to determine the best racer. :dunce: That seems to be all rednecks like though, bad drivers crashing into eachother. Putting a NASCAR driver in an F1 car would be dangerous

Anyways, back to the topic. I really dont feel like pointing fingers at any particular culprit but Michelin should have had another set of tires at the race. I dont believe IMS should have slowed the corner to account for a faulty tire. FIA, did the right thing in continuing the race.

Overall, I believe Michelin should be to blame.
 
Id sat it was 25% Michelins fault, because the problem with their tyres seems to be in how they are designed and/or constucted. Admittedly they cant really just pop over and test at Indy due to using a much different version of the circut and all the testing for the 500.
I'd say 5% Ferrari just cos Jean Todts an ar$ehole and doesnt care about the sport, just about winning.
70% Max Mosley cos he's the biggest ar$ehole in the sport and he seems to be trying to wreck f1 as we know it and has been for years. 9 teams, plus Bernie apparenrly spent a long time trying to find a compromise, yet Mosley threatened to stop FIA support for all US races. Usually I dont like anything Bernie does cos he's almost as bad as Max, but I think its time every F1 fan in the world was given a sack of brass doorknobs and allowed to hit Max twice each. Then we can tar and feather whats left.
 
TMM
Yeah real good show 2 Ferrari's racing round the track against, no opposition. As Martin said during the race, there was very few laps that they were actually at full race speed and 3/4 of the race over they are told by team radio to stay in their current positions, so once again Schumaker makes sure he finishes first by fair or fowl means. At least this time he didn't take anybody out of the race completely!!!! Maybe he is growing up after all...

And the US fans really appreciated the display from Ferrari didn't they, leaving in droves after the race start...
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Would you have rather had no cars race on Sunday? My point is that at least Ferrari, Jordan, and Minardi had something for the fans to watch, something other than 14 cars sitting in their garages.
Do I think that what happened Sunday is acceptable, no, I certainly do not, but stop blaming Bridgestone, Ferrari, Jordan, and Minardi for racing, which they had every right to do. It was Michelin's fault, blame them and their teams, not those who showed up prepared.
 
Majarvis
Would you have rather had no cars race on Sunday? My point is that at least Ferrari, Jordan, and Minardi had something for the fans to watch, something other than 14 cars sitting in their garages.
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Yes, a Bridgestone practice... nice solution. WOOOT!!


Do I think that what happened Sunday is acceptable, no, I certainly do not, but stop blaming Bridgestone, Ferrari, Jordan, and Minardi for racing, which they had every right to do. It was Michelin's fault, blame them and their teams, not those who showed up prepared.
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Once again they COULD NOT be prepared for this the way Bridgestone was. I don't blame Jordan and Minardi, and never did. Ferrari, on the other hand, COULD have agreed to the chicane, and we would have had a race. But they didn't.

I guess I can't expect a lot from a Montoya fan... :)
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Thanks for showing my what constitutes a reply worth posting instead of an attempt at a witty comeback. :)
 
Michelin goofed, but the FIA turned a drama into a crisis... Michelin made a mistake that forced their teams out of the race, but it was the FIA who turned the whole event into a very public farce... they have no respect for the very people who make the sport what it is, the drivers, the teams, and the suppliers... they need to get their heads out of their @rses if you ask me... :sly:
 
jpmontoya
Ferrari, on the other hand, COULD have agreed to the chicane, and we would have had a race. But they didn't.:)
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They were never asked anything, and if they were asked anything why should they agree it's not there fault that Michelin has crappy tyres.
When the Bridgestones where going bad nobody said well let's put a chicane somewhere to get them on pase again.

You're just a frustrated Montoya fan:tdown:
 
Gerco
You're just a frustrated Montoya fan:tdown:
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to quote you in another thread.

Gerco
I hope the michelins aren't going to start. It could give Schumacher the chance to win his sixt championship:D
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But I am the clueless (and dumb) fanboy here. 👍

Oh, for the record, I have this username because jpm was the one that kept me interested in F1 the year I joined (2003), which was otherwise very boring. There's many other drivers I currently like as much as him, if not more.

I see you've studied my opinion forum guide thoroughly. :)
 
chinny
I'd say 5% Ferrari just cos Jean Todts an ar$ehole and doesnt care about the sport, just about winning.
.
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Ok, explain to me how being a team manger and wanting to win is bad. :dunce:
i laugh when people say 0mg 1t mus7 b3 f3rr@r1s f@ul7 b3c@us# tH3y W2nn@ W1n. idiosy at its greatest.
 
I heard that the Michelin tires traditionally have weak 'cheeks' (sides), and together with the stiff competition between Bridgestone and Michelin, they were running it so close to the edge with ever thinner tires that they goofed up here and couldn't provide a good solution on short notice, because quite simply, they didn't have one - their weak 'side' is generally somewhat less of a problem on the other tracks. Still, that does show that the track team not having provided sufficient testing facilities would have factored in a lot more heavily than otherwise, and so if that's true, they are definitely also to blame.
 

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