Some call it bitching, I call it passionate feedback.

[Johnnypenso]

I posted this in another thread:

Absolutely correct:tup:👍 Some call it bitching but I would call it "passionate feedback" because that's what it is for the most part. The vast majority of the critical feedback to PD from GTP was truthful and honest and from the heart. 99% of people complained because they loved the series, not for any nefarious purpose, something those that are continually apologizing on PD's behalf never accepted.

After months of massive negative feedback from GTP members, in spite of attempts to be shouted down by those that felt all the complaining was unnecessary and the game was generally fine or that the complaining wouldn't work for whatever reason. First we had the Ask Kaz Forum a few weeks ago and now we have this: Official GT Blog: "Pit Stop" by KAZ Completely unprecedented in PD/Kaz's history, communication lines to the fans opening. An apology from Kaz regarding sounds. Unheard of.

IMO, the massive negative feedback from GTP and other fansites and critics of course, combined with reduced sales, is the only reason for these lines of communication to be open. It takes months and years to change corporate culture sometimes, but this is a big first step. Had we just sat back and said wonderful things about the graphics and number of cars none of this would have happened. What say you?

 

[vasiliflame]

Stuck it to the man! But only with the best intention we love u really kaz , but your silence was deafening

 

[Greycap]

What say you?

I say that while many things have been worth criticizing it still is annoying as hell to see the very same people with the very same complaints in every thread, no matter if the original subject of discussion was sunset at Matterhorn or the first corner of Silverstone. Somebody will bring up the sounds, somebody picks the dumb AI and somebody will mention the lack of a livery editor. After that the thread is lost in the sea of people patting each others' backs because they agree on those points. Well, good for them but I'm sure everybody knew about those problems already and the original subject might have been quite a bit more interesting but no, it became another whining thread. In my eyes that's the main problem, not the actual criticism.

 

[NUNOpt]

willing to answer fans questions its not a world premier but its positive since there wasnt enough communication.
now we better wait for the answers to know what, if anything, will change at GT. answering questions is not
a "game changing" for itself!

 

[vasiliflame]

I say that while many things have been worth criticizing it still is annoying as hell to see the very same people with the very same complaints in every thread, no matter if the original subject of discussion was sunset at Matterhorn or the first corner of Silverstone. Somebody will bring up the sounds, somebody picks the dumb AI and somebody will mention the lack of a livery editor. After that the thread is lost in the sea of people patting each others' backs because they agree on those points. Well, good for them but I'm sure everybody knew about those problems already and the original subject might have been quite a bit more interesting but no, it became another whining thread. In my eyes that's the main problem, not the actual criticism.

How's this post different , pats grey cap on the back . Only jokes but least it did make a difference it split the community but it will also reunite us

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

I say that while many things have been worth criticizing it still is annoying as hell to see the very same people with the very same complaints in every thread, no matter if the original subject of discussion was sunset at Matterhorn or the first corner of Silverstone. Somebody will bring up the sounds, somebody picks the dumb AI and somebody will mention the lack of a livery editor. After that the thread is lost in the sea of people patting each others' backs because they agree on those points. Well, good for them but I'm sure everybody knew about those problems already and the original subject might have been quite a bit more interesting but no, it became another whining thread. In my eyes that's the main problem, not the actual criticism.

Spot on! This is a forum for organised discussion, not repetitive and ritual complaints and rioting.

 

[Akira AC]

While I totally agree about the feedback, I can relate that about 70% to 80% is actually valid feedback.



The rest is variations of "PD didn't put x car in game" to "PD didn't create this x thing in game" and so on a so forth. Criticism is good as long as is properly founded, otherwise is not bitching, is just noise. That said, I'm glad that PD is publicly addressing the issues that the game has rather than keeping everything behind curtains, it shows an open sign of communication between westerners and Japanese developers, which is one hell of a thing to archive and I have only saw with Project Aces (who also got a huge backslash of a previous game they released, and addressed all these issues in the instalment they release recently).

 

[Le_Manuz]

this is probably the major update of GT series
considering it also comes from a Japanese company and if you know how their culture behavior is,
it's bigger than a major update
i look forward for more interactivity with the company maker of our beloved Game

Things are improving and like said, those last 6 months have something to do with what's going on now

 

[Morphisor]

Sadly, I think you are right. Most of the regular arguments and lengthy, well-made posts get ignored by the majority and thus by any influentials who don't have time to read every single piece.

I just hope this does not motivate those who complain just for the sake of complaining, because there's been far too much of that as well.

 

[Danny]

I think the problem isn't so much people complaining, I think it's more a severe underestimation of how much time and work things require.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I agree. It does work, even for mega corporations like EA, even they have come out this week and said they need to change the way they operate because their standards were below acceptable. Without this type of feedback, some things won't be changed or improved.

Sometimes the responses from gamers can be a bit over the top. I believe in saying exactly how things are and will make positive points on things well done and negative points on things that need to be looked at. Without it, developers or companies won't know what we want, what needs to be addressed and what will make them a bigger profit at the end of the day.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

Constructive criticism cannot be, or at least should not be shouted down. Kaz even says on pit stop about the "accurate" observations made by the fan base. This in itself shows it's listened to and noted and respected. I'll admit I'm one of those who never complains, not because everything is perfect, because I believe kaz and pd know what they're doing. It may take lots of time but I don't mind. It also appears, certainly on the sounds front this "breakthrough" was discovered as far back as 2003. Keep the criticism and suggestions coming but the people who start throwing "lazy"and "incompetent"around willy nilly and screaming that kaz should be chained to his desk not out enjoying himself racing etc. That's what pisses me off most. People on both sides get carried away, but I guess it's all just passion

 

[SSQES]

I say that while many things have been worth criticizing it still is annoying as hell to see the very same people with the very same complaints in every thread, no matter if the original subject of discussion was sunset at Matterhorn or the first corner of Silverstone. Somebody will bring up the sounds, somebody picks the dumb AI and somebody will mention the lack of a livery editor. After that the thread is lost in the sea of people patting each others' backs because they agree on those points. Well, good for them but I'm sure everybody knew about those problems already and the original subject might have been quite a bit more interesting but no, it became another whining thread. In my eyes that's the main problem, not the actual criticism.

Give that man a cookie!

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

I think the problem isn't so much people complaining, I think it's more a severe underestimation of how much time and work things require.

Haha, because PD hasn't had much time to fix issues..

 

[Divinus]

I think @Johnnypenso has a fair assumption in the OP. If it be true, then this will be the correct behaviour:

In the other hand, it works both ways and it's important to let them now what they do well. Feedback is important both ways. (Or you create a bunch of depressed people) That's why some people feel the need to also talk about the good stuff.

^
It will be easy to distinguish those who bitch from those who give constructive criticism, by how they handle this new approach by PD.

 

[VBR]

Like I've said before, if we make enough noise perhaps they will listen. Looks like they've started to listen. Now, if they start responding as well by implementing fan suggestions...

 

[stuff1138]

@Johnnypenso makes a good point and I agree with what @Divinus is saying too that the criticism should go both ways.

I've said this before. Kazunori Yamauchi is a man with a dream and a passion for auto racing and the future of racing/driving simulators. He is already part of their history and he wants to be part of their future. So much so that he's willing to take time out of his days to respond to a bunch of chumps on an internet forum and actually listen to the constructive and sometimes rather harsh feedback we dole out. A lot of very negative comments are made about him and about something he clearly loves and pours his heart into. It takes a big man to come out and admit to the world that you made a mistake or something you created isn't up to standards. He just did that for us and it seems like he will continue to do that over...wait for it...the next few weeks.

 

[lazywolfe]

Jun 19 2014

 

[John_Marsten]

Nothing but good can come from what Kaz and PD have done. Opening up a line of communication to the fans is fantastic.

Not only does Kaz get valuable feedback, (after sifting through the crap) but it also makes us feel 'listened to'.

I know I have whinged in the past, alot of it ridiculous whining out of pure frustration with Kaz and PD. This new blog however, makes me damn happy.

Good stuff Kaz, keep pushing that virtual divide. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

Nothing but good can come from what Kaz and PD have done. Opening up a line of communication to the fans is fantastic.

Not only does Kaz get valuable feedback, (after sifting through the crap) but it also makes us feel 'listened to'.

I know I have whinged in the past, alot of it ridiculous whining out of pure frustration with Kaz and PD. This new blog however, makes me damn happy.

Good stuff Kaz, keep pushing that virtual divide. 👍

I wouldn't be counting my chickens before they are hatched my friend. The doors have opened, now let's see who walks through. It's one thing to simply "communicate", it's another thing for that communication to be meaningful and on point. Kaz is now giving us some background on the sound issue and that's great, it's a good read too. But where this ends up is most important. It has to have substance, it has to be forward looking and it has to answer at least some of the direct inquiries from the Kaz Forum Sound thread.

It's far too early to pass any judgments of course it just started. But this can also turn ugly if we just get a bunch of stories that don't address our concerns directly.

 

[tankuroded]

It's called "circlejerk", people.

💡

 

[VBR]

The doors have opened, now let's see who walks through.

One thing I find strange about the blog is that it seems to be random people posting about random stuff. There's no introduction as to who they are, where they work, what job they do, why they're writing the piece. It's kind of like a stranger walking up to you in the street who starts talking to you assuming you know who he is!

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

One thing I find strange about the blog is that it seems to be random people posting about random stuff. There's no introduction as to who they are, where they work, what job they do, why they're writing the piece. It's kind of like a stranger walking up to you in the street who starts talking to you assuming you know who he is!

Fair enough, I'll try and clarify. Out of the authors so far we have:
Kazunori Yamauchi - Head of Polyphony Digital

Takamasa Shichisawa - Works at Gran Turismo Explore Studio, formerly Game Director, Movie Director, and Course Design Director of GT2->GTHD (also producer of Tourist Trophy) source

EXP - edit: All I can gather is that he seems to be a GT player, not somebody who works for Polyphony (well, besides being hired to write blog posts perhaps).

 

[VBR]

Fair enough, I'll try and clarify. Out of the authors so far we have:
Kazunori Yamauchi - Head of Polyphony Digital

WOW! Didn't know that! Very helpful, thanks.

Seriously though, having to Google their names to find out who they are isn't a good idea. PD should post up some information about who these people are on the blog, maybe a little biography about each writer.


👍

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

WOW! Didn't know that! Very helpful, thanks.

No problem, the post originally said "Kazunori Yamauchi - as if you didn't know " but I was feeling polite so I edited it.

Seriously though, having to Google their names to find out who they are isn't a good idea. PD should post up some information about who these people are on the blog, maybe a little biography about each writer.

Well, it's up to the writer to introduce themselves, I guess they were feeling shy or humble. Though I would like to see a little "meet the developers" video where we could find out who everyone at PD is and what they do/have done (if they're up to it). The little video I saw a few months ago (I think it was in KAZ) where we saw the great detail one person had put into modelling Rome, the interior of the Colosseum etc. was very interesting!

 

[liv4hardstyle]

I say that while many things have been worth criticizing it still is annoying as hell to see the very same people with the very same complaints in every thread, no matter if the original subject of discussion was sunset at Matterhorn or the first corner of Silverstone. Somebody will bring up the sounds, somebody picks the dumb AI and somebody will mention the lack of a livery editor. After that the thread is lost in the sea of people patting each others' backs because they agree on those points. Well, good for them but I'm sure everybody knew about those problems already and the original subject might have been quite a bit more interesting but no, it became another whining thread. In my eyes that's the main problem, not the actual criticism.

exactly right mate, well said.

 

[mister dog]

I remember issues like AI and sound being talked about for almost a decade now
Frankly i've never seen people have so much patience with a game to keep crying out over the same problems over and over, and have figurative orgasms as soon as there's a single phrase of communication about the game's flaws by it's developer years later (without the problems being fixed i might add).

I gave up already; all the energy spend in trying to get their attention and desperately waiting for it to be improved is better spend in enjoying yourself with other racing games that do provide the thrills that you are looking for.

I feel it's up to them to grab my attention back, not the other way around.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Thank you @Johnnypenso, I'll be using this.

Some call it bitching but I would call it "passionate feedback" because that's what it is for the most part.

 

[jlmcmillan1978]

If all anyone ever did was worship PD for everything they put out, there would be little in the way of improvement. It's those of who see & call out the fundamental mistakes, bugs, missing features and so forth, that will be most responsible for pushing this game in the right direction so that everyone will benefit. Why we so regularly must incur the wrath of the fanboys I don't know, because they would think everything with GT was glorious no matter what PD did with it ( the real pushbike simulator anyone? Fanboys everywhere rejoice.........)