Some Ferrari F10 gameplay footage I just recorded

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wonderboy46
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Scotracer
Drag levels between 2007 and 2010 are very similar - in fact, drag levels are lower this year since the top speeds are higher than 2007 despite a little less power (probably 10-20BHP less).



The F2007 in the Prologue was very poorly modelled. You could get over 200mph with even max downforce which is ridiculous. It seems like they've messed up again with the F10. Gah! F1 cars are my all-time favourite racers and as an F1 fanatic (and an engineer) I'm very anal about them being right.

Can you tell me what the power for the F10 is in the tuning menu? Standard power? And torque?
Click to expand...

The tuning menu stats are:
Power: 680 BHP/17500RPM
Torque: 28 kgfm/ 16000RPM
Weight: 620 kg
Power to weight ratio: 0.89 kg/BHP
 
Wonderboy46
The tuning menu stats are:
Power: 680 BHP/17500RPM
Torque: 28 kgfm/ 16000RPM
Weight: 620 kg
Power to weight ratio: 0.89 kg/BHP
Click to expand...

Well that's simply wrong. I posted heavily about that fact after the Prologue had the wrong stats.

From a very reliable source I know the Mercedes F1 engine is over 750BHP @ 18,000rpm. The Ferrari is not down >70BHP from that. In fact, it is claimed that the Cosworth V8 produces 770BHP @ 18,000rpm but that's from the grapevine.

70BHP would account for over 1 second in lap time being lost and a certainly knock a few km/h off your top speed.
 
Scotracer
Well that's simply wrong. I posted heavily about that fact after the Prologue had the wrong stats.

From a very reliable source I know the Mercedes F1 engine is over 750BHP @ 18,000rpm. The Ferrari is not down >70BHP from that. In fact, it is claimed that the Cosworth V8 produces 770BHP @ 18,000rpm but that's from the grapevine.

Come on PD...
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised by this to be honest. The issue I've been having is basic top speed and the horse power figure looked a bit iffy as soon as I saw it the first time.

I'm going to implement the "restore body rigidity" feature in GT Auto for the F10 to see if that makes a difference. There was a 500,000 CR rigidity bill on the car before I'd even driven it. Needless to say, after spending 10 million to get the car I haven't been able to afford the rigidity fee yet!
 
Wonderboy46
I'm now convinced the F10 is too slow in GT5 compared to real life or even the F1 2010 game. Regardless of what setup changes I make the top speed isn't even close to the real life top speed for any circuit. I've tried a variety of setups at Monza, Nurburgring GP, Suzuka and Monaco. The handling feels exactly the same whether downforce is minimum or full and the top speed barely creeps over 200mph, again regardless of downforce or gear ratio.

I'm really disappointed with the lack of attention this car seems to have gotten during development. Surely if you're going to bother to include it at all you might as well make it capable of true to life lap times. I'm sure people will be able to do those times eventually with some crazy method, but as a seasonsed F1 sim player I know I should be capable of putting in those times already without screwing around with unrealistic setups.

I'll be interested to see what solutions other players find to get the proper speed out of this car once more people have unlocked it.
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I don't think you can get any more top speed out of that car. The top speed the F10 managed at Monza was 341.1 kph (http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2010/837/6782/speed_trap.html), and that was with a special low-downforce F-Duct wing, which GT5 probably doesn't have. The top speed you got was 329kph. That's exactly what Jenson Button's Mclaren got with a normal F-Duct wing, which is what I'd guess GT5 modeled.
 
Mr. Boy
I don't think you can get any more top speed out of that car. The top speed the F10 managed at Monza was 341.1 kph (http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2010/837/6782/speed_trap.html), and that was with a special low-downforce F-Duct wing, which GT5 probably doesn't have. The top speed you got was 329kph. That's exactly what Jenson Button's Mclaren got with a normal F-Duct wing, which is what I'd guess GT5 modeled.
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Remember that just because the 3D car model looks high downforce, it doesn't mean anything. What the game actually models in terms of physics is not what you see; it's algorithms and look-up tables that you cannot see. The F10 wont have an F-duct in this game (in fact it's not even in the 3D model at all) as there's no way for the player to control such a device.

Also, F1 cars even at Monza don't run minimum possible downforce - they run at about 1/5 of what they have available so they COULD go faster in a straight line but it would be slower overall on a lap.

Wonderboy - take your F10 to Le Mans, no chicane, and see what you can get down the Mulsanne peak-speed wise. Try it with 0/5 downforce then 1/5 then 2/5 etc up to maximum and compare the top speed difference and how fast it gets there. A bit geeky but hey, I wouldn't be here otherwise.
 
Well, body rigidity improvement in GT Auto made no difference. Looks like I'll be sticking to the Codemasters game for my F1 action. Such a shame as all the other racing cars in GT5 drive absolutely as I would expect and I have no difficulty matching my lap times in them from other sims.
 
About the top speed, did you try changing the ride height? Maybe that's affecting the top speed. However if the car PD modeled really only has 680hp then something is very wrong.
 
Mr. Boy
About the top speed, did you try changing the ride height? Maybe that's affecting the top speed. However if the car PD modeled really only has 680hp then something is very wrong.
Click to expand...

I didn't tweak the ride height too much to be honest.

Frankly though there is a simple point to be made after all of this. It shouldn't take random trial and error setup tweaks to get this car to perform correctly. I've been playing F1 sims at a high level for about 10 years and I have never been this far from the real lap times before. The core of setting up an F1 car is the aerodynamics of the wings and max/min wing settings make almost no noticeable difference to handling or straight line speed with the F10 in GT5, regardless of the circuit.

Its a massive shame that the car under-performs so much, especially if its because its down on horse power - which it sounds like it might well be. Hopefully once more people buy it in the game and experiment with setup we'll eventually get to a level where the lap times are more realistic.
 
Those are probably just stated horsepower figures by Ferrari, and not the actual horsepower figures. The Figures of the Mercedes and Cosworth are probably actual measurements of the engines, or someone's estimates. so for all we know, PD is right.
 
What, the sound? Doubt it. They didn't fix the F2007's sound from Prologue.
 
Well, i think they might have given the F10 and f2007 LESS horsepower because they do not give the car's weight's correctly either. They use the weight of the car without the driver.

So i think they are trying to compensate for the fact that there is less weight on the cars by reducing the horsepower so the car's performance will be closer to reality.

Also, there is no weight ballast option in 'tuning' menu, and this SUCKS!! Even GT4 had this!!!!!
 
lucag120
Well, i think they might have given the F10 and f2007 LESS horsepower because they do not give the car's weight's correctly either. They use the weight of the car without the driver.

So i think they are trying to compensate for the fact that there is less weight on the cars by reducing the horsepower so the car's performance will be closer to reality.

Also, there is no weight ballast option in 'tuning' menu, and this SUCKS!! Even GT4 had this!!!!!
Click to expand...

Erm F1 cars are 605kg (2007) and 620kg (2010) including driver. That is the ready-to-race weight, as it were.
 
Or maybe, the GT figures are wrong. GT has gotten horsepower figures wrong before, a lot actually. Weight, too...



We've only seen 1 person lap the F10, at Monza, wit what seems to be a higher downforce setup than is used for the track, and shorter gears than is needed as well. Of course he's gonna be slower han in real life. The F2007 could, in Prologue be very close, almost identical to real life times.
 
Wonderboy46
The tuning menu stats are:
Power: 680 BHP/17500RPM
Torque: 28 kgfm/ 16000RPM
Weight: 620 kg
Power to weight ratio: 0.89 kg/BHP
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that is BOLLOCKS, the F10 engine is producing around the 785bhp mark, Mercedes engine is apparently weaker, and the Renault is almost laughable without the aid of an F-duct.

You guys are forgetting one VERY VERY IMPORTANT factor in this; the F10 in the game is from earlier in the season, it doesn't even have an f-duct which would suggest its from the very early stages of the season.

The cars are evolved and changed from race to race, they may look the same from the outside but in the details and underneath they are completely different cars, so that laptime would suggest a high downforce level in the spec of the car which would indicate that this is probably the car from either pre-season testing or anytime before the Spanish GP(f-duct system introduction), but the most sensible guess is that this is infact the Monaco spec. (edit: according to the top speeds people are mentioning, this is indeed the spec that did the first few races, so this is either Alonso's repaired car from Monaco, or Massa's car from Monaco)

Also, in regards to being able to set comparable laptimes to real life, your forgetting that in GT5 your automatically on a full tank of fuel and with the no refuelling rules that is alot of added weight and trust me it does make that much of a difference to the cars performance, if you didn't think of this your simply not a true fan of F1. Another factor is the longer wheelbase because of the fuel tank does have an effect of the cars cornering.

F1 2010, yes, you are able to match the real life laptimes but (and this is not out of any bias or any attempt to discredit an outstanding job by Codemasters) very reliable sources within Codemasters and a certain ex-Super Aguri driver have confirmed that the cars have been adjusted from track to track to enable the laptimes or predicted laptimes to be matched by the players.
 
It's just a normal F10 from the start of the season. Whichever spec they modeled should only show differences on wings and whatever, which won't change your in-game performance at all, unless you were to tune the car.


And you've got your engine power wrong. The Mercedes engine is the most powerful, rumored to be over 20 or 30hp more than the Ferrari, the Renault is a bit lower than that, but definitely not laughable. The Cosworth may be the most powerful engine, I remember hearing somewhere that it had around 20 more than the Merc, but I may be wrong.
 
brainfade
Sorry, but that is BOLLOCKS, the F10 engine is producing around the 785bhp mark, Mercedes engine is apparently weaker, and the Renault is almost laughable without the aid of an F-duct.

You guys are forgetting one VERY VERY IMPORTANT factor in this; the F10 in the game is from earlier in the season, it doesn't even have an f-duct which would suggest its from the very early stages of the season.

The cars are evolved and changed from race to race, they may look the same from the outside but in the details and underneath they are completely different cars, so that laptime would suggest a high downforce level in the spec of the car which would indicate that this is probably the car from either pre-season testing or anytime before the Spanish GP(f-duct system introduction), but the most sensible guess is that this is infact the Monaco spec. (edit: according to the top speeds people are mentioning, this is indeed the spec that did the first few races, so this is either Alonso's repaired car from Monaco, or Massa's car from Monaco)

Also, in regards to being able to set comparable laptimes to real life, your forgetting that in GT5 your automatically on a full tank of fuel and with the no refuelling rules that is alot of added weight and trust me it does make that much of a difference to the cars performance, if you didn't think of this your simply not a true fan of F1. Another factor is the longer wheelbase because of the fuel tank does have an effect of the cars cornering.

F1 2010, yes, you are able to match the real life laptimes but (and this is not out of any bias or any attempt to discredit an outstanding job by Codemasters) very reliable sources within Codemasters and a certain ex-Super Aguri driver have confirmed that the cars have been adjusted from track to track to enable the laptimes or predicted laptimes to be matched by the players.
Click to expand...

Mercedes engine is most powerful in F1 for some years now. Ferrari is not bad but consume more fuel. Renault is weaker than both but efficient in fuel consumption and lighter than both Mercedes and Ferrari but still considered weak overall. No one knows exactly for sure but this is know for a while.

Probably there is potion of upgrade of engine
 
You try breaking it in yet? You try oil changing it yet? You try running a few races yet? Don't be fooled. This is not the latest iteration of the F10. They obviously had some time before the game was released to model this car. I don't think it was the last car to be modeled, nor the first. Be happy F1's Bernie 'Heckle-Stone' didn't take it away from Kaz or this game. The power and weight quoted is probably just Ferrari being modest. They don't state their actual HP figures to anyone during the season for reasons we all know. The rules were to have the cars engine's produce around 700hp, so understating that isn't uncommon. Toy with the settings somewhat maybe you've yet reached it's potential.
 
A lap of Top Gear Test track with the F10, with onboard. Not my video.


 

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