Some sounds GT6 should have.

[Tazz69]

and check out the gameplay..

 

[starknight97]

I think we all know what kind of sounds PD need to implement into gt6. Good ones.

 

[Bo]

Instead of saying individual cars, why not just say the ones that don't need them? Otherwise you're going to be listing about 1190 cars.

 

[Mustangmiha]

Don't you just love it when your fully modified Ford sounds like it had swapped engine with some Japanese sports car?

 

[Mulan]

Not GT fault, sounds are to realistic but for that you need hifiequipment worth a new nissan Leaf. So ive heard anyway.

 

[HuskyGT]

Not convinced. They sound horribly looped and more artificial than in GT. That Audi in particular sounded awful. The M3 sounded pretty, like you would expect from a racing flatplane V8, but... I've heard better sounds even in GT (not in the M3 GT2, that's for sure).

What PD needs is accuracy in matching the right sound to the right car, not fancy, loud, overdone artificial sounds.

 

[Griffith500]

I too believe that sample loops have had their day in top tier racing games. However, the depth and detail in PCARS at the moment, in terms of the number of layers of different sounds, is far greater than anything in GT. But then it is technically a next gen game now.

I don't like it's balance / mixing of sound (the rumble strips being the exception), and that gear wobble (as well as the gear whine sample itself) is deep in the uncanny valley. The gear changes and "throttle down" clanks are irritating also (headphones).

Overall, despite the depth and detail, it still lacks the expressiveness and responsiveness to player input of something like the RB X2014J, or even anything from Live For Speed.


I don't know how useful this thread is as its own thing, we have complaint / request threads already for sound.

 

[ChrisH]

I think it's a little overdone ... the mirror rattling in the M3 would be really annoying IMO.

 

[haythem09]

You know after playing GT6 so much and my standards being lowered by GT6 engine sounds, these seem absolutely mother******* amazing. But that's probably because I've gotten used to GT6.

But out of everything, the thing that stuck out to me most was the gear-shift sound. Listen to the M3's gear shift, this is what GT needs, gear changes that actually sound like a gear change, and not Fiat 500 shifting gears like an F1 car. It sometimes sounds a little better using clutch, but nothing good.

 

[Griffith500]

"Gear shift sounds" should be physics driven, not modulated using a hand-tweaked preset that can't convey enough detail without overblowing the modulation depth because the control speed is too slow to actually register any nuance.

iRacing has the absolute best representation of what a "gear-change-sound" should be. Their drivetrain simulation does more than just "gear change sounds", too, it does beautiful throttle transitions and interactions with the track surface, too.




It's not appropriate for all games, but damn is it effective, even with iRacing's sub-par sound design.

 

[Tazz69]

Yea that iRacing sound is GREAT!!! Need that sound in a PS3 or 4 or XBOX game...

 

[King1982]

Not GT fault, sounds are to realistic but for that you need hifiequipment worth a new nissan Leaf. So ive heard anyway.

Keep telling yourself that...lol too realistic....

True.

 

[Imari]

iRacing has the absolute best representation of what a "gear-change-sound" should be. Their drivetrain simulation does more than just "gear change sounds", too, it does beautiful throttle transitions and interactions with the track surface, too.

I was surprised when iRacing introduced the drivetrain flex thing how much of a difference it made to how much like real cars it sounded. Such a little thing (probably not a little thing to program, but seems little) and it makes gear changes and changing throttle sound so much less digital. Which turns out to be a significant amount of the time, when you're driving hard.

 

[Gran_Turismo]

For crying out loud. GTA 5 has more detail and features to car sound effects than GT. PD needs help when an action adventure game bests them at car sound designs.

 

[Mulan]

Keep telling yourself that...lol too realistic....

Read the post again.....

 

[Tazz69]

just some more I found..

 

[Tazz69]

Bump

 

[Chrix12]

just some more I found..

It is good... but not real IMHO. For some reason, I hear a too strong vacuum, just like in GT (Maybe Kaz is training us with the sounds too). I know turbo makes a vacuumish sound, but it is not that loud compared to exhaust or engine. You hear turbo on low rpm and when you accelerate or loosen the acceleration, but engine and exhaust takes over at high rpm.

Most of them time, problem with the turbo sound in games is that the volume is same all the time, it doesn't get lost in other sounds at all.




This is a genre of music. Or at east should be.

 

[PepeMickey]

IMHO PCars has good sounds in the same way as Forza and Shift 2 have them. They're not realistic, they just keep adding layers and layers and the sounds right now are extremely fake.

Listen how the car sounds when you change gears, yes, race cars with sequential trannys do this violent sound but it sounds so fake in PCars. I can't really explain why but it seems to me that they're just distorting it and it gets worse when every car in Pcars has this.

 

[ChrisH]

After seeing the Z4 video, I really think they are going too far. All of the shakes and bumps from the car are really overdone and look artificial...

 

[PepeMickey]

"Gear shift sounds" should be physics driven, not modulated using a hand-tweaked preset that can't convey enough detail without overblowing the modulation depth because the control speed is too slow to actually register any nuance.

iRacing has the absolute best representation of what a "gear-change-sound" should be. Their drivetrain simulation does more than just "gear change sounds", too, it does beautiful throttle transitions and interactions with the track surface, too.




It's not appropriate for all games, but damn is it effective, even with iRacing's sub-par sound design.

This is exactly how I feel about Pcars, I'm not a sound expert so I can't express this stuff with such clarity. The "gear change" sounds are really just a preset that plays on top of the engine sound, it has no depth to it, no matter the player's input, every gear change will sound exactly the same.

Even GT and Forza are more advanced in this regard if you use a clutch.

 

[LS Chiou]

I think two of the sound elements are the most important - engine (exhaust), and tire.

The former gives the sense of power and speed, while the latter gives much more, including all situations of contacts between car and ground. These two are the most important aspects of how a car is driven.

I remember back in GT5, there's massive tranny winning whenever the fully adjustable racing unit is in the car, be it OE in those race cars or modded road cars. Some road cars (especially older muscle cars) need this mod, but the straight cut gear box is just so noisy that it's enough to kill the nice V8 notes, and almost dominate the whole auditory senses. That sucks. I quit driving those cars because of that annoying noise. Is it realistic? Maybe. Is it good for my driving? No! Is it enjoyable? Absolutely not!

In GT6, noise of straight cut gears is still there but with a better proportion. As to other elements, I think they are about right, if not perfect. (The largely hated tire noises, I feel it rather helpful for my driving. OTOH, I really hope there'd be proper wind noise! )

IRL, in a car we are familiar with, we tend to ignore the noises which are not useful, be it squeaks of interior, or clunks from the messy trunk. For many of such minor imperfections, they're not affecting the performance and safety so we're not going to fix them immediately anyway. So we ignore them.

In a driving simulator game, do we really need those minor noises which we'd probably ignore when doing hard driving? We don't, actually. If some more details can be properly presented for a more complete experience, yes they are welcome. But if not done right, I'd rather keep it simple. More doesn't always better. (especially the hardware resource is running out)

About the two films in the OP, TBH I don't like their sounds. No experience on any real race car, so I can't tell if it's realistic. But anyway, to me, they sound unsmooth, badly lubricated, instead of what a powerful fast machine should be. And, are all those crackings helpful, usable, or enjoyable to me - the simulator driver? I'm afraid not. Sorry.

 

[Swagger897]

It is good... but not real IMHO. For some reason, I hear a too strong vacuum, just like in GT (Maybe Kaz is training us with the sounds too). I know turbo makes a vacuumish sound, but it is not that loud compared to exhaust or engine. You hear turbo on low rpm and when you accelerate or loosen the acceleration, but engine and exhaust takes over at high rpm.

Most of them time, problem with the turbo sound in games is that the volume is same all the time, it doesn't get lost in other sounds at all.




This is a genre of music. Or at east should be.

So... apparently you've never heard a Porsche 911 RSR...

 

[Griffith500]

I was surprised when iRacing introduced the drivetrain flex thing how much of a difference it made to how much like real cars it sounded. Such a little thing (probably not a little thing to program, but seems little) and it makes gear changes and changing throttle sound so much less digital. Which turns out to be a significant amount of the time, when you're driving hard.

As far as their general approach to drivetrain modeling, it's technically only a small extension to what they already had in GPL from 1999, in terms of the static equations. Their general approach uses industry-standard methods from mechanical engineering, rather than industry standards from games. This is ridiculously important.

Of course, changing the numerical solver to account for that change in the base equations has huge knock-on effects that they're still tweaking out - things like adjusting the friction between the bevel gears in the differential and the differential casing / cradle for open diffs. The numerical solver adds its own colour and foibles, too, because it is inexact and potentially unstable. You can design in the exact foibles you want (minimally disruptive for a given level of complexity, i.e. performance), if you know what you're doing.

It's all interactive with the other solvers and systems, though, which makes the task immense without the proper insight, again from industries other than games.

 

[thestig11]

After seeing the Z4 video, I really think they are going too far. All of the shakes and bumps from the car are really overdone and look artificial...

thats what racing is like

 

[ChrisH]

thats what racing is like

No, that's what it's like when they spend too much time trying to make it not look artificial like GT. But in my opinion it looks worse. That mirror on the M3 in the first video looks hideous.

 

[Swagger897]

No, that's what it's like when they spend too much time trying to make it not look artificial like GT. But in my opinion it looks worse. That mirror on the M3 in the first video looks hideous.

I don't understand if you mean that GT looks artificial, or GT is as real as it gets.... I dunno about you, but my a** normally jumps up and down in my car when I drive/race... And they head wobbling, well yeah that's spot on because you're looking at a tv screen and not the whole picture wrapped around you...

 

[ChrisH]

Yes GT looks more artificial, it seems like they are trying to add inconsistencies and shaking to make it look more realistic. I'm all for making things more realistic, but to me they are approaching Need for Speed screen shaking techniques...

 

[Swagger897]

Yes GT looks more artificial, it seems like they are trying to add inconsistencies and shaking to make it look more realistic. I'm all for making things more realistic, but to me they are approaching Need for Speed screen shaking techniques...

So are you going from an Onboard camera POV, say if you look up r18 Le Mans and you get the e-tron's on board lap, of course it's not going to move because it's fastened to the car. But I feel like when I drive the interior view, it represents it very well, only that it doesn't have that good of head lurch when the flywheel comes in (for some everyday cars). However, braking is much better than it was from 5... Much better....

And I don't think I'd use the word artificial, as the whole game is an artificial representation. I'd use something more along skewed if comparing to reality..

 

[LS Chiou]

Limited 'hardware' resources aside, our sensations and brain are doing their work by certain priority, mainly for surviving. So we see things and ignore some of them, we hear things and ignore some of them. We can never capture and remember all of the 'reality'.

That's why we always rediscover 'new' things in a taken photo, which is not in our memory. We also hear new sounds from a recorded media compared to the scene where/when we're there.

So, what is reality? The whole real reality is always beyond our comprehension to some extent. We can only perceive certain facets of the whole thing at any certain moment, no matter what.

The keypoint is, among all the real facts, what really matters to us. To me, this debate is actually circling around which sounds matter. And everyone has different priority and preference.

(Mine were written in post #22)