Something that holds a car from being great.

  • Thread starter Thread starter RocZX
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motortrend
Thing is, wouldn't you get confused downshifting from 7 to 6 and accidentally hit 4? I mean, on a six speed you go left up and down, right up and down and up and down in the center but the 7 speed would add another gate to the right and up. Wouldn't that be sort of confusing or cause some mistakes?
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Not really. You get used to more gears pretty quickly and as long as the 'box is well engineered - and we're talking about a Porsche - it'll be no more difficult changing gears when you have 7 to play with than if you had 6, 5 or 4.

My Fiat has six gears. My Beetle has 4. There's less stick movement between all six in the Fiat than there is going across half of the Beetle's gate. Guess which one is easier to use... ;)

Also, the use of "beening" in the title of this thread is a constant irritation. There's no such word. It's "being".
 
White & Nerdy
Chevy Volt - That body looks amazing, too bad there's an electric motor lurking under it.
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I think the downside is the gas engine. If you are going to make a electric car don't put a gas engine in it because that will make it a hybrid.
 
White & Nerdy
Chevy Volt - That body looks amazing, too bad there's an electric motor lurking under it.
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RocZX
I think the downside is the gas engine. If you are going to make a electric car don't put a gas engine in it because that will make it a hybrid.
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I think by arguing that either unit shouldn't be there you're both missing the point of the Volt.

Electric motor: Clean running, lots of torque, quiet, smoother than the smoothest luxury car, pennies to "fill up". Enough range to handle many peoples' daily commute.

Engine: No need to worry about range, allows you to do longer journeys.

Take one or the other away and the car becomes pointless. If the Volt has any real failings it's that it's too expensive for most people.
 
High-Test
Agreed.

Autoblog once described Subaru's 4 speed auto as having been carried by Moses down from Sinai. As I never learned how to drive a standard transmission on a real car, (they were all GM products with clutches made of cheese) I have this unfortunate autotragic in my 2009 Legacy.

Not the worst transmission by any means, but it's really underwhelming on an otherwise fantastic car.
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I've got the same autotragic 4-speed in my 08, it is an absolute abomination. Shifting with it isn't bad though (in the "sport shift"), but it is by far the biggest let down of the entire car.
 
Anyone else think the new Lincolns and their grilles look like a blue whale?

The Camaro and its huge Blind spot.
The Scion Tc and its blind spot.
Used Mercedes and their huge depreciation.
(You can get a used S-class from '06 with 45K km on it for $25k)
 
RocZX
I think the downside is the gas engine. If you are going to make a electric car don't put a gas engine in it because that will make it a hybrid.
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The gas engine in the Volt is used to extend the range of the electric motor, and doesn't actually propel the car. I'm not 100% sure if that would classify it as a hybrid in the traditional sense.

Also, cars that don't belong within the bounds of their badges will never be great. A Hyundai Equus will never be 'great' because it is a Hyundai and that is not the kind of car people associate with that brand. Same thing goes for the Aston-Martin Cygnet - that will flop as well for the same reason. Cars in those situations will always either come up short, or at the very least, be perceived as coming up short.
 
White & Nerdy
Chrysler Prowler - V6 + Automatic
Pontiac Aztek - Too expensive, built on FWD minivan platform (thus ruining original styling).
Yugo - They were well built, until...
All the new Lincolns - Very competent cars, but most of them make me want to throw up.
Chevy Volt - That body looks amazing, too bad there's an electric motor lurking under it.
Saturn compacts - Very light, but used a completely bespoke, not-very-powerful, extremely unreliable engine. Also, most of them are criminally ugly.
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I'm a little curious what platform would you've have built the Aztek on then? It's a crossover so it needed something a bit more than a car's platform could offer. And why did it need to be anything other then FWD/AWD?

As pointed out if you think the electric motor is holding the Volt back then you've missed the point of the car.

And Saturn compacts? They didn't need power as they were built for one purpose, cheap commuting. While they did have their reliability issues I can't imagine they were all that bad judging how many are still on the road.

I think you're just jelly these cars are pony related :lol:
 
White & Nerdy
Chevy Volt - That body looks amazing, too bad there's an electric motor lurking under it.
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You're right, all they'd have to do is remove the electric bits and it'd be far better.

1.4 litre hatchbacks are cool in America, right?
 
Turbo Lag
I've got the same autotragic 4-speed in my 08, it is an absolute abomination. Shifting with it isn't bad though (in the "sport shift"), but it is by far the biggest let down of the entire car.
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Got it in an '06, and it's way better than the generation before it. Sometimes I wonder what the 3.0 and 5 speed would be like....
 
Cale
Got it in an '06, and it's way better than the generation before it. Sometimes I wonder what the 3.0 and 5 speed would be like....
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It's certainly not the worst automatic I've used. It was in my 07 and now my 09.

I ask myself this question on a very frequent basis. I'm really a wagon person. If I replace my legacy, I'm getting a 2009 outback. Preferably Newport blue/silver with leather and one of the engines that will yield a 5 speed. Not sure if I'd rather have the Turbo 4 or the 6. Though part of me really just wants to pay the car off and drive it until its wheels fall off. I've still got 5 years on the loan term :dopey:

Wouldn't be as long if I didn't wreck the 07. :dunce:

I can't narrow down the worst auto I've used. The Ford Freestyle gets honorable mention for its indecisiveness.

Wait - It has to be the auto from the 2002 Ford Ranger. Complete and utter garbage.
 
Jondot
You're right, all they'd have to do is remove the electric bits and it'd be far better.

1.4 litre hatchbacks are cool in America, right?
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Who says it has to have the 1.4? Put the Cobalt SS's engine in it, then it'd go as well as it looked.
 
I was lead here from another thread, so I figured I'd post here instead.

I have nothing against fwd cars but I wish cars like the Mazdaspeed 3 were offered in a rwd configuration or awd.
 
High-Test
I can't narrow down the worst auto I've used. The Ford Freestyle gets honorable mention for its indecisiveness.

Wait - It has to be the auto from the 2002 Ford Ranger. Complete and utter garbage.
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The early Autostick in the millennial Chryslers were pretty awful. I had a friend in high school who bought a 300M, and I fell in love with the car to the extent that I wanted my own; but the transmission was a complete mess. Put it in manual mode and shift, and it would wait around 2 seconds before it decided to shift or not. It was a real shame, because the thing was reasonably fun to drive otherwise; especially since Chrysler intentionally programmed it to work that way (you can get instant shifts with it with aftermarket stuff). Good power, decent body control, alright interior...



Not the worst automatic I've driven (in actual Auto mode it was pretty good, really); but certainly something that really hurt the car.
 
Don't know that this has been mentioned before but the lack of a six-speed in a SL Merc.
 
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AOS-
Cars that look sporty and have a FWD drivetrain..
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That's only if the suspension sucks IMO. My Cobalt looks sporty & is FWD. They made the suspension right because it doesn't have bad understeer like most FWD cars in fact it has a little oversteer.

AOS-
Silver Paint.
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The fact that most cars made don't have more than 1-2 bright colors besides white. You rarely see any yellows, bright reds, lime greens, oranges, bright blues etc on anything outside Lambo's & Porsche's. :indiff:

White & Nerdy
Who says it has to have the 1.4? Put the Cobalt SS's engine in it, then it'd go as well as it looked.
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The SS model only had a 2.0 which was smaller than the other models. Now if you are talking about the regular SS model than that had a 2.4. I wished they just called the super/turbocharged models Z/24.

Joey D
That would really defeat the point of the Volt.
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Agreed. The Volt has some spunk for a hybrid. Someone drives one around me & they really get on it when the light turns green & boy does it go. :lol:
 
I agree what's been said about the Challenger. I've been in them andeven just riding around in them they feel heavy. I'll be completely honest, my 2003 Escape feels MUCH lighter on it's feet then the Challenger does.
 
And on the subject of the Cobalt. I wish they made a supercharged V6 model & called it Z/24 or Z/insert #. That would of made it a beast & able to compete with those Japanese tuners. And I'm not talking about the Civic since the SS Turbo models already ***** all over Civics.
 
AOS-
Cars that look sporty and have a FWD drivetrain.
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Honda Del Sol Si? Admittedly, I've got the SOHC 128-hp one in mine, rather than the DOHC 160-something HP one (VTEC in both), but horsepower doesn't matter. The thing's low to the ground, hugs corners like glue, and is a great pleasure to drive in, especially in the summer.

There is one issue with it, and it's the same issue that I think defines 'holding a car back from being great'... it's got a auto in it. :indiff:
 
Xavier2342
I was lead here from another thread, so I figured I'd post here instead.

I have nothing against fwd cars but I wish cars like the Mazdaspeed 3 were offered in a rwd configuration or awd.
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Having a MS3 in AWD or RWD would just make it heavier and have less room in it. FWD hot hatchbacks are fine as along as the auto maker puts a decent suspension under it and, depending on the power, a good diff. Also they'd be way more expensive since it would require additional engineering to convert it from FWD to RWD or AWD.

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As for what holds a car back from being great for me? The owners and the culture that surrounds the vehicle. The car can be excellent to drive and really well made, but if its a d-bag chariot then I think it takes away a bit from the overall package of the car.

Also with modern vehicles the lack of a double clutch transmission holds it back for me. You get all the benefits of a manual, but with all the performance of a computer that can think faster than I can. I refuse to buy a vehicle without a double clutch, unless it's an electric car then it goes into a different category. And before the stupid argument about manuals v. automatics start, I'm just giving my opinion on the matter, not looking to start some asinine debate.

Finally crap tires. I know automakers spend millions on tire research to find the perfect balance of grip, comfort and, noise, but it seems like that research ends up making really good cars have really awful tires. The OEM tires on my Focus were garbage and really subtracted from the car overall, swapping them with some better rubber improved the car exponentially.
 
I think on the topic of tires they look for what most of the owners will be doing and adjust according to the different parameters of a tire and how cost effective it is. Tires are a pretty personal matter and differ greatly with purpose which is why the best mod after upgrading your driving skills should generally be tires.
 
motortrend
I think on the topic of tires they look for what most of the owners will be doing and adjust according to the different parameters of a tire and how cost effective it is. Tires are a pretty personal matter and differ greatly with purpose which is why the best mod after upgrading your driving skills should generally be tires.
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I get that, but I feel like many of the tires I've experienced on new cars have just been awful even in everyday conditions. The OEM tires on the Focus hydroplaned when it was wet and refused to grip in light snow. I feel like OEM tires should at least be better at dealing with all-season conditions considering they are a safety item for the vehicle.
 
I think for me it's the lack of manual transmissions for certain cars. I really wanted a C63 AMG before buying my C6 but the lack of 3 pedal's really killed the idea.
 
Ford Focus RS (Rally Spec) = FWD, it should be a 4WD car. It's a cool car but it's seriously less awesome and basically another generic hot hatch FF car with too much power and a silly body kit, all of which would make perfect sense (to me atleast) if it was 4WD.
 
Doog
It's also more economical, more space efficient, more cost effective to produce, and better in snow.
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He was pointing up (to me?), and I was talking about 4WD. So no FWD is not better in snow, all the other things yes but I was talking a bout a Ford Focus RS. RS meaning Rally Sport. The 301/345 BHP road going version of their rally car and the car that essencially replaced the legendary 4WD Ford Escort RS Cosworth.

The sick thing is that they made it a FWD. Rally Sport my ass. If it was 4WD (like the Rally car) it might have been legendary. That said the 2009 and later model sold for £25k new and still sell for over 20k used so people must like them for them to hold value so much.
 
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I think the RS is FWD because making it AWD would've made it too heavy and it wouldn't have handled like a Focus with the weight. I guess Ford was confident in its engineering prowess to make up for the lack of the rear drive wheels.
 
Spoil-t
And on the subject of the Cobalt. I wish they made a supercharged V6 model & called it Z/24 or Z/insert #. That would of made it a beast & able to compete with those Japanese tuners. And I'm not talking about the Civic since the SS Turbo models already ***** all over Civics.
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Waitwaitwaitwaitwait...

Did this guy just say something that isn't making me rage?

GTP seems too good to be true suddenly. Murphy's law is about to hit HARD. I can feel it.
 

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