Sony Bars Class Action Suits in New terms and conditions..

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Yeah I noticed this, they have already told me I basically don't own the hardware and now I can't sue them if they steal from me further...:ouch:
 
The problem is that gamers are using class action suits as a panacea for every ill that befalls them. These suits are so easy to file now, and they clog up the already backlogged civil court system. I've often said that the worst thing that could have happened is geeks discovering the legal system. "We're gamers and we're smart! We'll sue! We know how!!". There's also no shortage of lawyers who now think of this as their new "growth field".

The other thing is that if you agree to this, you still have legal recourse. Instead of filing a class action suit, you will have a federally appointed arbitrator to settle the case. You also have the option to "opt out" within thirty days of agreeing to the terms of service. Really though, if you have a problem that can be settled by an arbitrator, why the need to file a class action suit? The only ones who win are the lawyers!
 
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Yeah I agree with that, half the suits brought forward are stupid and devalue the whole point of the legal system. If people are going to sue for something let it be something with a reasonable argument like the removal of Other OS or the PSN breech.

Especially with all these 'no win no fee firms' these days everyone takes a stab at suing and it becomes a joke. Having said that I do not want to be forced to give up all legal challenge just to play a damn games console, gosh the whole gaming industry got real serious real quick :yuck:

But its good to know there are other ways to get justice if needed even after the changes.
 
Saw this now too, in here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14948701

I can understand why they're doing this but I think "irresponsible suing" (sorry, not an English native, my tentative wording will have to suffice) should be dealt with penalties on those who do it, and not by forcing all the people to give up (contractualy) a legal right.

In my case I'm not worried. This clause is illegal in my country so my agreement to those new T&C will be worthless (for Sony) in a portuguese court.
 
In my case I'm not worried. This clause is illegal in my country so my agreement to those new T&C will be worthless (for Sony) in a portuguese court.
Same here, a company's T&C can never void your legal rights, ever.
 
The new terms and conditions say that you agree not to file a class action suit. It is not a ban on legal recourse completely. You still have legal recourse, such as federally appointed arbitration. You can also opt out of the agreement within thirty days.

See here's the thing guys. Those of you who aren't from the United States might not know this, but it's become entirely too easy to file these class action lawsuits in many states. There are lawyers who specialize in this type of litigation, who salivate at the thought of a corporation with deep pockets, and who will want to settle these cases quickly and with as little press as possible. There's been lawsuits over coffee being too hot, McDonald's french fries and those claiming they've made them obese as a result (nobody forced you to eat them), and a cleaning service in California was sued for over thirty million dollars because they lost a customers pants. I'm not making that one up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/25/AR2007062500443.html

There's far too many lawyers who are eager to cash on on these suits, and they see "gamers" as their new growth field. Gamers are using these lawsuits as a cure all for EVERYTHING. I recently received an email regarding a class action suit against Electronic Arts, claiming they used their position to unfairly secure an exclusive deal with the NFL, wanting to know if I wanted to join the class. I deleted the email. Why? Because I don't want my name associated with such a frivolous lawsuit, and I will not endorse the further abuse of the United States civil court system. Unfortunately, not many choose to view it that way, and they'll find a lawyer will agree with them, and promise a big settlement to boot.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't instances where lawsuits are justified. Such as in the 1970's when the Ford Motor Company was sued because the Pinto was dangerous. Ford was paying off the families of those who had been killed to avoid a recall, and attempting to sweep the incident under the rug. Many people died because of Ford's negligence. That's an instance where a lawsuit is justified, and is valid.

The civil court in the United States was intended to render equity when the criminal courts could not. It wasn't designed so that gamers could abuse the system, and attempt to squeeze a freebie out multinational corporations.
 
Saw this now too, in here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14948701

I can understand why they're doing this but I think "irresponsible suing" (sorry, not an English native, my tentative wording will have to suffice) should be dealt with penalties on those who do it, and not by forcing all the people to give up (contractualy) a legal right.

In my case I'm not worried. This clause is illegal in my country so my agreement to those new T&C will be worthless (for Sony) in a portuguese court.

How exactly do you deal with those who file lawsuits irresponsibly? In the U.S. the judge can order you to pay the court fees if you lose. Sometimes those run into the thousands of dollars, and many of these lawyers promise that you don't have to pay them unless you get a settlement. So you have a system where lawsuits are filed for free, and there's no consequences if you lose the case.
 
It's not a good thing, but it doesn't really matter to me. Besides, they're always getting sued for stupid reasons,
 
FYI ..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/16/sony_bars_class_action_suits/

could be the first of Many, i suspect that this may be the way all online services try and protect themselves going forward.

some may never read these conditions ..

So, people in the US are kind of trigger happy when it comes to lawsuits and stuff, if I'm not mistaken. Don't get me wrong, please. :)

But well, I doubt that their terms of use could really prohibit someone from starting a class action lawsuit. The court would most likely declare that part of the TOU illegal and allow the lawsuit to proceed, wouldn't it be like that, somehow?
 
So, people in the US are kind of trigger happy when it comes to lawsuits and stuff, if I'm not mistaken.

You are not mistaken, Weird Al even wrote a song about it.


There have even been laws passed trying to cut down on frivolous lawsuits.
 
How exactly do you deal with those who file lawsuits irresponsibly? In the U.S. the judge can order you to pay the court fees if you lose. Sometimes those run into the thousands of dollars, and many of these lawyers promise that you don't have to pay them unless you get a settlement. So you have a system where lawsuits are filed for free, and there's no consequences if you lose the case.


In Portugal you ALWAYS pay the court fees if you lose the case (civil courts). It usually amounts to a few thousand euros. It's not even a fine, it's just how the system is designed to work.

What I meant is - and this happens in Portugal also - The judge can fine you if your litigation is deemed irresponsible, or malevolent (tentative English again ... what I mean is a situation when the court finds that you lied in the defense of your case, or that you didn't tell all you should, and also in cases where the court decides that you filed a lawsuit without any valid reason to do so, and that you knew that in advance but anyway decided to use up the court system anyway). Lately, we have seen a slow but steady progression in these fines value. Judges are getting harsher with people that "play" with the courts.
 
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Whatever the cause (and I agree... class action is usually a simple way for lawyers to make big bucks... hello, Toyota SUA)... that clause is illegal and non-binding in almost any court on the planet.

It's simply a way for them to dissuade the less committed, but it's still very questonable from an ethical standpoint.

But then again, we are talking about Sony...
 
Whatever the cause (and I agree... class action is usually a simple way for lawyers to make big bucks... hello, Toyota SUA)... that clause is illegal and non-binding in almost any court on the planet.

It's simply a way for them to dissuade the less committed, but it's still very questonable from an ethical standpoint.

But then again, we are talking about Sony...

Don't fall into the whole "SONY BAD!!" trap. Sony isn't doing anything so insidious, as so many gamers WANT to believe. They aren't running guns to terrorists. They aren't hunting elephants for ivory. And they aren't spilling oil into the ocean, contaminating the environment. Granted the company isn't run by those who'd I would nominate for sainthood, but they aren't as vile as some want to believe they are.

Also like I said before, you are agreeing to not file a class action suit. That is not the only type of legal recourse open to you. You can agree to have a federally appointed arbitration to hear your case. You can also opt out of hte agreement, which you would do if you really disagree with the new terms of service. And you don't think that Sony also has lawyers who wrote this agreement? If you don't believe they do, then there's a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
 
Don't fall into the whole "SONY BAD!!" trap. Sony isn't doing anything so insidious, as so many gamers WANT to believe. They aren't running guns to terrorists. They aren't hunting elephants for ivory. And they aren't spilling oil into the ocean, contaminating the environment. Granted the company isn't run by those who'd I would nominate for sainthood, but they aren't as vile as some want to believe they are.

Also like I said before, you are agreeing to not file a class action suit. That is not the only type of legal recourse open to you. You can agree to have a federally appointed arbitration to hear your case. You can also opt out of hte agreement, which you would do if you really disagree with the new terms of service. And you don't think that Sony also has lawyers who wrote this agreement? If you don't believe they do, then there's a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.

That's all well and good but why don't I see the other console manufacturers putting the same clauses in its terms and agreements?

Why is there one law for Sony and another for everybody else? They are particularly heavy handed with users compared to others.
 
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XBOX Live Terms of Use
16. LIABILITY LIMITATION.

You can recover from us for all successful claims only direct damages up to a total amount equal to your Service fee for one month. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, special, indirect, incidental, or punitive damages and lost profits.
Link


Isn't that more or less saying the same thing?(basically that you can't sue)
 
Basically it says that if you suffer problems with XBox live, they will refund it, but you can't claim that it ruined your marriage, caused you psychological distress and a nervous breakdown, or that not being able to sell in-game products to other gamers has hurt your livelihood. It doesn't say you can't sue, but that they won't feel obliged to pay you anything above and beyond what you paid them.

You can still sue, though. And if you sue successfully, they'll have to pay whatever the court tells them to pay.


Don't fall into the whole "SONY BAD!!" trap. Sony isn't doing anything so insidious, as so many gamers WANT to believe. They aren't running guns to terrorists. They aren't hunting elephants for ivory. And they aren't spilling oil into the ocean, contaminating the environment. Granted the company isn't run by those who'd I would nominate for sainthood, but they aren't as vile as some want to believe they are.

Also like I said before, you are agreeing to not file a class action suit. That is not the only type of legal recourse open to you. You can agree to have a federally appointed arbitration to hear your case. You can also opt out of hte agreement, which you would do if you really disagree with the new terms of service. And you don't think that Sony also has lawyers who wrote this agreement? If you don't believe they do, then there's a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.

You can't agree not to sue. As such agreements to sign away your rights to legal recourse are against the laws of almost every country with a working legal system, including mine. No contract that causes either of the parties to lose their inherent legal rights is binding. Period.

And I'm not on the OMG SONY BAD! bandwagon. I think the Anonymous and LulzSec attacks on Sony were ridiculous as Sony had every right to sue George Holtz for trying to give away its trade secrets for free. I personally think the whole "Sony products break right after the warranty" meme is ridiculous, as I own a whole lot of Sony products and not one has broken until at least twice past warranty age. (Except one of our PS1s)

But in terms of corporate responsibility and customer relations? Sony sucks. Their obsessive-compulsive need to be in total control of all content... the whole OtherOS brouhaha was horrible, from end-to-end, that's why I can't use my PS3 as a mediacenter and why I have to buy myself a cheap WD Movie player to actually play my personal files. (Though that's a minor quibble, I got the PS3 to play PS3 games first and foremost)

Let's not forget to mention Sony's attempts at DRM, which basically involved infecting your computer with a virus (a rootkit to be more precise) which exploited a security loophole in Windows... which is outright illegal. This made Sony BMG one of the first companies ever to be sued by an entire state. They're still reeling from that.

Sony aren't the worst company in the world, yes, but in terms of how they treat their customers? They're pretty darn cruddy.
 
The thing is, even if you can in theory still sue them as an individual its nigh impossible for you to realistically be able to do so. The reason being that most would not be wealthy enough to sue Sony individually and also they would not take you seriously as one person. This is why class actions are so popular.

Giant Bomb has explained it really well and have even included a template document to mail to Sony to opt out of the terms (in the US).

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/sonys-asking-you-to-waive-your-rights-but-you-have-options/3674/

I am so glad that its been confirmed that Europe and Australia are not affected by these terms because luckily we have strong consumer rights laws which make such a clause illegal. I didn't see any terms changes come up when logging into PSN yesterday.

Sony have been a total disaster with this console generation stealing functionality away, punishing people for tinkering with their own property and now stopping you from blaming them for anything. They are just bitter that the PS3 sucked for nearly half its lifespan and is unlikely to ever be profitable.
 
I am so glad that its been confirmed that Europe and Australia are not affected by these terms because luckily we have strong consumer rights laws which make such a clause illegal. I didn't see any terms changes come up when logging into PSN yesterday.
It being in the US ToS doesn't make it anymore binding than it does if it wasn't there in the first place. As niky said, you cannot be forced to give up your legal rights, and if anyone seriously said screw it and sued Sony over something anyways than the clause would almost certainly be found no less illegal.


Sony only put it in their because it gives them a bit more cannon fodder to use in court if it comes to that, but that doesn't mean that it is actually valid or if challenged that it wouldn't fall to pieces.
 
Sony and AT-T are not the only ones who do this........ Pioneer Credit has the same clause that you must agree to use their services, nothing is forced. I'm not opting out because I just don't care. I don't need a false sense of sue happy security.

Pretty sure there are hundred of companies that do this in the US, you just don't hear about it. By the way you can opt out which makes disputing it a waste of time. Or if you just like to make things seems worse than they are (Kotaku).....
 
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SCEA is not associated with any Internet service providers, including hotspot operators (collectively, “ISPs”). SCEA is not responsible for any damages or injury arising from or related to your use of ISP services. When you access the Internet, you are providing information directly to the ISP and not to SCEA. This information is collected by the ISP and is not shared with SCEA. Before accessing the Internet, you should carefully read the ISP’s user agreement, terms and conditions and privacy policy carefully.

10. LINKING POLICY
If you link to these Sites from another web site: (i) the link must not damage, dilute or tarnish the goodwill associated with any SCEA name or entity; (2) the link must not create the false appearance that the other website is sponsored by, endorsed by, affiliated with or associated with SCEA; (3) the website may not “frame” or alter these Sites in any way; and (4) the linked website may not be unlawful, abusive, indecent or obscene, promote violence or illegal acts, be libelous, defamatory or otherwise deemed inappropriate, as determined by us in our sole discretion; and (iv) the linked website may not display our Content, including any of our logos, to create a link, without our prior written consent.

Our Sites may allow you to link to third-party websites. Just because third-party website links exists on our Sites does not mean that we have thoroughly evaluated the third-party websites. Those third-party websites do not belong to us, and we have no control over and assume no responsibility for the content, accuracy, usefulness, safety, privacy policies or practices of these websites. By using our Sites, you expressly relieve SCEA of any and all liability arising from your use of any third-party websites linked to our Sites. Enjoy the links, but do so at your own risk.


11. SWEEPSTAKES, CONTESTS AND PROMOTIONS
From time to time, these Sites may provide information about sweepstakes, contests or promotions that may be governed by a separate set of rules and may also have eligibility requirements. You must read those rules to determine whether or not your participation, registration or entry will be valid and to determine all other applicable requirements.

12. WARRANTY DISCLAIMER
We really hope you enjoy the Sites, and we also hope the Sites will function properly. Your use of the Sites, however, is at your sole risk. To the fullest extent permitted by law, SCEA, its officers, directors, shareholders, employees representatives, and agents disclaim all warranties, express or implied, including the implied warranties and conditions of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement, in connection with the Sites and your use of them. SCEA makes no warranties or representations about the accuracy or completeness of the Sites, and assumes to the maximum extent permitted by law no liability or responsibility for any (a) errors, mistakes or inaccuracies on the Sites; (b) personal injury or property damage of any nature whatsoever resulting from your access to and use of the Sites; (c) unauthorized access to or use of our secure servers or any and all Personal Information that is not submitted using a secured transmission; (d) interruption or the cessation of transmission to or from our Sites; (e) bugs, viruses, trojan horses or the like that may be transmitted to or through our Sites by any third-party; or (f) errors or omissions on our Sites or for any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of your use of any content available via the Sites. SCEA does not warrant, endorse, guarantee, or assume responsibility for any product or service advertised or offered by a third-party through the SCEA or any hyperlinked website or feature in any banner or other advertising, and SCEA will not be a party to or in any way be responsible for monitoring any transaction between you and third-party providers of products or services. As with the purchase of a product or service through any medium or in any environment, you should use your best judgment and exercise caution where appropriate.

13.LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
We have to throw in some more legal language we need to protect us so that we can provide you the benefits of the Sites. In no event will SCEA, its officers, directors, employees, shareholders, representatives or agents be liable to you for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, punitive or consequential damages whatsoever resulting from any (a) mistakes or inaccuracies of content on the Sites, (b) personal injury or property damage of any nature whatsoever resulting from your access to and use of the Sites, (c) any unauthorized access to or use of our secure servers or any and all non-secured personal information (d) any interruption or the cessation of transmission to or from the Sites, (e) any bugs, viruses, trojan horses or the like that may be transmitted to or through the Sites; or (f) any errors or omissions in any content or for any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of your use of any content posted, emailed, transmitted or made available via the Sites, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory and whether or not the company is advised of the possibility of such damages. This limitation of liability applies to the fullest extent permitted by law in the applicable jurisdiction.

14. INDEMNITY
You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless SCEA, its affiliates, subsidiaries, officers and directors, shareholders, agents, employees and partners, and any other parties with whom SCEA may contract to provide the Sites, from and against any and all claims, actions, suits, costs, liabilities, judgments, obligations, losses, penalties, fines or forfeitures, expenses or damages (including reasonable legal fees and expenses) of whatsoever kind and nature imposed on, incurred by or asserted against SCEA arising out of

your User Generated Content; or
your breach or alleged breach of any representation, warranty, covenant or obligation pursuant to these Terms of Service, the Privacy Policy or the PSN ToSUA.
We reserve the right to take over the exclusive defense of any claim for which we are entitled to indemnification from you. In such event, you shall provide us with cooperation reasonably requested by us.


15. MODIFICATION
SCEA at its sole discretion may modify the provisions of these Terms of Service at any time. You are responsible for reviewing these Terms of Service each time you use these Sites. By using the Sites, you agree to be bound by all current Terms of Service. To print out a current copy of these Terms of Service using your computer, go to http://www.us.playstation.com/termsofuse.

16. INDEPENDENT PARTIES
You and SCEA are independent parties, and nothing in these Terms of Service constitutes a partnership between or joint venture of you and SCEA or to make either party the agent of the other. You are not allowed to hold yourself out contrary to the terms of this paragraph (so please don’t), and SCEA is not liable for any representation, act or omission by you contrary to the provisions of these Terms of Service.

17. TERMINATION
SCEA has the right to terminate your access to use the Sites for any reason, including for violation of these Terms of Service. If we ever terminate your access to the Sites, sections 3-9, 12, 13, 15 – 19, 21 and 22 of these Terms of Service will still apply to you.

18. STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS
You agree that regardless of any statute or law to the contrary, any claim or cause of action arising out of or related to your use of the Sites or these Terms of Service must be filed within one (1) year after the claim or cause of action arose or be forever barred.

19. GOVERNING LAW AND JURISDICTION.
These Terms of Service and all questions relating to the performance, interpretation, breach or enforcement of these Terms of Service, or the rights, obligations and liabilities of you and us under them are governed by the laws of the State of California. You agree that all disputes, claims or litigation arising from or related in any way to these Terms of Service and our relationship with you will be litigated only in a court of competent jurisdiction located in San Mateo County, State of California. You agree to be subject to personal jurisdiction and venue in that location.

THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ ALL THAT LEGAL LANGUAGE. NOW GO ENJOY OUR SITES!
“PlayStation”, the “PS” Family logo, and “PSP” are registered trademarks of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. The Sony Computer Entertainment logo is a registered trademark of Sony Corporation. All other games and properties shown on this site are trademarked and copyrighted properties of their respective owners or licensors.

© 2011 Sony Computer Entertainment America LLC.
 
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