Sony Honda Mobility Afeela 1

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I don't think you can accuse Honda of going all-in on EVs...but they were definitely a victim of timing and a radically shifted business environment in this case. The butchering of the executive sedan market by Tesla probably sent a strong signal to the rest of the industry that was....misinterpreted, particularly by the Germans who seem to have made all the wrong moves on electrification. Very few of the Japanese automakers went down this route though, so I'm not sure who you're complaining about here. Where manufacturers did make sizeable investments, if a government administration creates incentives large enough to make the business decision "if I don't do this, I'm gonna get creamed by my opponents" and then the next administration blows up those incentives mid-product development cycle, you can't really blame the manufacturer. At some point you have to blame the government.
I do blame the government. My issue is that it seems most people are blaming the wrong one in my opinion.
 
Wanna take a guess as to why Chinese EVs are being sold like hotcakes in Asia? It’s because US auto makers make in a week what Chinese auto makers make in a month. That’s why they’re cheaper.
Citation needed.

In 2024 BYD (Chinese auto maker) had higher revenues than Tesla (US auto maker).

 
Citation needed.

In 2024 BYD (Chinese auto maker) had higher revenues than Tesla (US auto maker).


Citation provided.

In case you’re wondering, the average EV worker hourly rate in China is 49 yuan which is approximately $6.86. And according to Ziprecruiter, US EV workers make an average of $40.64.
If we assume that Chinese workers are on the job for 8 hours like US workers, this translates to Chinese workers making $1097.6 per month as US workers make $1624.4 per week.

Gee. I wonder why BYD makes more profit than Tesla…
 
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It's just that I thought it would be delayed again, and again, until they put it onto indefinite hiatus (AKA canceled), instead of outright canceling it.
There's really no reason to keep it on the back burner. The landscape that it was intended to inhabit vanished almost as soon as the joint agreement was made, Honda would have no benefit from stringing it along, and after a number of high profile dumpster fires Sony seems to have finally lost its taste for throwing money at projects with no obvious use case.
 
oh-no-top-gear.gif


Apologies. 🙏🏻 If I didn't post it, someone else would've!
 
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Being overweight, having massive polar inertia and lacking short gear ratios, they 're also dangerous as soon as you exit the city limits, especially if the road isn't dry
Over-powered ICE cars can achieve this just as much. Driver issue.
And an even greater danger is the autonomous systems the elites want to impose along with EVs.
They got cars backing themselves into spaces & parallel parking. ICE cars can be designed to be autonomous.
I do blame the government. My issue is that it seems most people are blaming the wrong one in my opinion.
You mean, the one that is currently, ironically, the central cause for high gas prices that an EV could actually take advantage of?

You voted for it though, so I'm sure you'll keep coping.
 
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Over-powered ICE cars can achieve this just as much. Driver issue.

They got cars backing themselves into spaces & parallel parking. ICE cars can be designed to be autonomous.

You mean, the one that is currently, ironically, the central cause for high gas prices that an EV could actually take advantage of?

You voted for it though, so I'm sure you'll keep coping.
Tell me you know nothing about Iran without telling me you know nothing about Iran.
But sure, keep pretending Captain Spray Tan is the problem.

(Btw, gas prices were higher under President Autopen and it was by design.)
 
Tell me you know nothing about Iran without telling me you know nothing about Iran.
But sure, keep pretending Captain Spray Tan is the problem.
I know we've won, we're negotiating, the strait's open, it's closed, you're as gullible as your vote.
(Btw, gas prices were higher under President Autopen and it was by design.)
The best thing about you goofs is your own guy has done everything the previous guy did/is accused of, but you're too far attached to the rear to let go now.
GIF by MOODMAN
 
I see this has devolved into a anti-EV/political mud-slinging fest. (I use mud-slinging, as I'm not sure what the policy is for swearing, even if censored.)

Anyway, the biggest problem with the Afeela One was... I just didn't get who it was for. It's not really explained.

I also found the gimmicks to be pretty stupid, IMO.
 
VXR
I don't even think I can turn the ESP off on my Model 3, and if you can, I'm not particularly fussed as its just my (very quick) daily driver. But I can't say terminal understeer has ever happened to me on the public road, certainly not to the extent that it can't be pulled back into line by coming off the throttle and I lean on all my cars through corners.
So you don't even care about turning the ESP off on the Tesla. You 're not convincing me you "lean on it" enough to even learn it. Sure it is quick on a straight line, but I 'm more of a momentum manager than a straight line speeder and I don't like the idea of having to do this on such a heavy car with all that polar inertia. The main masses of an ICE vehicle (if it 's designed properly) are all within the wheelbase and low enough to achieve a good centre of gravity, resulting in much smaller polar inertia than any EV. Now if an EV can achieve a marginally lower centre of gravity, that 's about it. And then there 's the gearing. Regardless how many claims may be made that "EV motors are super precise", the exclusively long gear ratios they 're attached to are a no-go. And, if despite all this the Model 3 is one of the best cars you 've ever driven on corners, well this goes to show what you should expect when most manufacturers focus so much on comfort even at the detriment of safety. Too much comfort is bad for health anyway.

@eran0004: Just the fact that you rely on "hearing about the lobbying" is enough for me to understand you 're not ready for this sort of matter yet. I suspect that, in the real world, you 're not even legally aged to drive. This is also apparent in how you think it 's so easy to "design cars to be autonomous". Well no, it 's been proved impossible. Autonomous vehicles rely on sensors, which are bound to have large blind angles, as well as do an awful job (or no job at all) in bad weather. And then there 's the issue of social hints (if this is the correct term in english). We humans will see a loose ball and predict a kid will carelessly run to pick it up - the machine cannot do that, so it will react too late or not at all, thus killing the kid. And then you won't be able to stop. The machine will keep going at all costs. But even if you were to disregard these safety concerns, why accept something that will over time make us lose yet another skill? Why rely on machines for literally everything? Why be so lazy?

Over-powered ICE cars can achieve this just as much. Driver issue.

They got cars backing themselves into spaces & parallel parking. ICE cars can be designed to be autonomous.

You mean, the one that is currently, ironically, the central cause for high gas prices that an EV could actually take advantage of?

You voted for it though, so I'm sure you'll keep coping.
1)Of course, driving style is an issue with most people. A properly engineered car doesn't mean much if it 's driven by someone with inadequate driver's ed and no mechanical empathy. Still, different cars are good at different things. These two facts don't cancel each other.

2)You 're confusing automatic parking for full-on autonomy. While I don't support automatic parking either, I can tell for sure that making a car completely autonomous is a different story. I mean, how fast do you go when parking?

3)The two main parties in the USA are controlled by the country's MIC, so there 's no real choice. It 's like PASOK and ND in Greece, with SYRIZA being the old PASOK for a while: albeit a different party appears to govern, the policies applied usually follow the same trajectory for the worse.
 
Anyway, the biggest problem with the Afeela One was... I just didn't get who it was for. It's not really explained.

I also found the gimmicks to be pretty stupid, IMO.
It was basically for people who wanted to smugface at Tesla owners by having a shinier tech toy, but thought an Apple-branded EV would be too "mainstream".

You really have to keep in mind the time period this was conceived in. Remember that EVs were supposed to be the new normal, to the point where governments started setting hard dates to ban ICE vehicles entirely, and with existing automakers still dragging their feet on development it seemed like the perfect time for outsiders who weren't able to otherwise enter the automaking market to get in. Cars weren't going to be transportation anymore, they'd be technology showpieces that would do everything automatically and be your personal lifetstyle hub. But once the hard limits of EV technology and its associated features like FSD became apparent then the techbros and hedge fund owners went looking to AI as the revolutionary new tech to get in on the ground floor of, and projects like the Afeela became white elephants.

If we were still living in that post-Covid reality distortion bubble from 5 years ago, where the Metaverse and cryptocurrency day trading were going to be the new global standard, then maybe it would make more sense.
 
@eran0004: Just the fact that you rely on "hearing about the lobbying" is enough for me to understand you 're not ready for this sort of matter yet.
Sounds like deflection.

Also, if you don't rely on hearing about things, does it mean that you're in the habit of making stuff up yourself?

If you haven't heard about the lobbying, what makes you think it's actually a thing?
I suspect that, in the real world, you 're not even legally aged to drive.
That's a good example of why you should look things up before you form an opinion. An uninformed opinion is worthless and could easily lead you to draw the wrong conslusion.
This is also apparent in how you think it 's so easy to "design cars to be autonomous".
That's something you've made up. I never said that.
Well no, it 's been proved impossible. Autonomous vehicles rely on sensors, which are bound to have large blind angles, as well as do an awful job (or no job at all) in bad weather.
Human drivers also rely on sensory inputs (unless you're in the habit of making things up), so those circumstances that you mention does not prove that autonomy is impossible.
And then there 's the issue of social hints (if this is the correct term in english). We humans will see a loose ball and predict a kid will carelessly run to pick it up - the machine cannot do that, so it will react too late or not at all, thus killing the kid. And then you won't be able to stop. The machine will keep going at all costs.
Sounds like a problem that can be solved with machine learning. Where did you get the idea that an autonomous car would keep going at all cost, even after hitting a person?
But even if you were to disregard these safety concerns, why accept something that will over time make us lose yet another skill? Why rely on machines for literally everything? Why be so lazy?
I never said you have to accept it or that autonomous cars is even a good thing. You claimed that cars are only meant to be driven by humans and that some unspecified elites are trying to make autonomous cars mandatory for everyone. Where did you get those ideas from?
 
Sounds like deflection.

Also, if you don't rely on hearing about things, does it mean that you're in the habit of making stuff up yourself?

If you haven't heard about the lobbying, what makes you think it's actually a thing?

That's a good example of why you should look things up before you form an opinion. An uninformed opinion is worthless and could easily lead you to draw the wrong conslusion.

That's something you've made up. I never said that.

Human drivers also rely on sensory inputs (unless you're in the habit of making things up), so those circumstances that you mention does not prove that autonomy is impossible.

Sounds like a problem that can be solved with machine learning. Where did you get the idea that an autonomous car would keep going at all cost, even after hitting a person?

I never said you have to accept it or that autonomous cars is even a good thing. You claimed that cars are only meant to be driven by humans and that some unspecified elites are trying to make autonomous cars mandatory for everyone. Where did you get those ideas from?
Usually you don't directly hear about lobbying, so you have to rely on seeing its results. You know, lobbying tends to happen behind closed doors. In cases such as the EV trend and autonomous vehicles, said results are seen in how the law is changed. There has been an attempt to outright ban ICEs, whereas there has never been an attempt to do that to EVs, even now that questions about them are being asked. I 'm not against EVs being an option on the market, but trying to ban the ICE on false premises is a big nope.

You did say that cars can be designed to be autonomous, and positioned this statement in a way that showed little to no concern about what could make it impractically difficult or outright impossible. Machine learning isn't as much of a cure-all as you appear to think. We do rely on sensory inputs as you say, however we don't have as much of a blind angle as sensors, we can see a lot further and again we can predict things a machine never will (without making stuff up, mind you). Now if I read wrong the positioning of your statement, I 'm sorry.

Autonomous vehicles causing accidents and leaving have been repeatedly documented. I remember reading about this a while ago, so despite all effort to keep it hidden, it is a very real issue. Maybe you follow your own advice and do some research on it.

You didn't say that I have to accept it or that it is a good thing, but you don't seem to know about how companies that make those sensors are trying to bind the market on themselves by lobbying upon governments to make autonomous systems mandatory. I 'd not be against having them as an option on the market despite the dangers they pose, but making them mandatory? Come on now...
 
I don't really understand what these companie sare thinking outright cancelling this stuff instead of reformatting it to lower volume production.

Honda has already shot itself in the foot in F1 by quitting for no good reason then deciding to start again. It's going to be at least two years until they're competitive again, at which point new engine regs come into play anyway. And they've already started the marketing campaign for the Afeela, I've seen commercials on Youtube lately. They're gonna cook all the work they've done.

Is this because Donut might have developed new battery technology and now these cars need to be redesigned to be compatible?
 
2)You 're confusing automatic parking for full-on autonomy. While I don't support automatic parking either, I can tell for sure that making a car completely autonomous is a different story. I mean, how fast do you go when parking?
No, I'm pointing out to you that you can make an ICE car autonomous; a car backing in/parallel parking itself fits the description of autonomous.
A self-driving car, also known as an autonomous car, driverless car, or robotic car (robo-car), is a car that is capable of operating with reduced or no human input is a car that is capable of operating with reduced or no human input.

The goal for what you're describing in autonomy in cars has also existed long before EVs became popular.

Audi.
January 2013
First publically demonstrated in an Audi A6 Avant as part of this year’s International Consumer Electronics Show, when a driver encounters stressful driving conditions such as heavy congestion or major traffic jams, an autopilot system can take over and guide the vehicle with perfect lane discipline at speeds of up to 37mph (60 km/h). Using ultrasonic and radar sensors as well as video cameras, the car can maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front and reduce speed or apply the brake if necessary. It is also aware of blindspots and of distances relevant to crash barriers and highway markings and can even react cooperatively to other cars attempting to change lane or overtake. All of which allows the driver ultimate peace of mind and a chance to relax when those around him or her are becoming more and more stressed.

Cadillac
April 2012
Self-driving cars this decade? Could be. Super Cruise, a suite of General Motors technologies that lets a car drive itself on some roads, could be ready by the middle of the decade, Cadillac says. It's now 2012, so that means as little as three or four years from now. This is, GM suggests, a Cadillac that "is capable of fully automatic steering, braking and lane-centering in highway driving under certain optimal conditions." It uses adaptive cruise control and lane-centering technologies that rely on an array of radar, ultrasononic and camera sensors, plus precise GPS map data.
Side Note: It still exists & GM's website lists that it is available on a wide arrange of vehicles, ICE & EV, sedans & full sized trucks.

It does require driver attention at this moment, but their goal specifically outlines "Hands-Free", "Eyes-off", & "Full autonomy" with it.

Mercedes
March 2013
One of the big enablers here is a stereo camera mounted in the windscreen behind the rear view mirror. It essentially gives the car a 3D, 500 metre view of the road ahead.

Everything from other cars to road signs and even pedestrians are detected and fed into the system. Add in all-round radar sensor data and you have a car that's almost omiscient in terms of what's happening around it.

But what does that actually mean? A lot of things, actually. The E Class can now almost drive itself on motorways, thanks to Distronic Plus with Steering Assist and Brake Assist Plus, for instance.

Nissan
February 2013
Nissan Motor Co. opened a research center in California’s Silicon Valley that the Japanese carmaker plans to make its hub for research on self-driving vehicles and Internet-connected auto technology.

Volkswagen
July 2006
Now, however, Volkswagen is offering those resigned to the seemingly inevitable outcome of The Rise of the Machines™ - the complete subjugation of humanity and its hideous enslavement to the CyberDyson Corporation - the chance to get it over with as quickly and painlessly as possible: the self-driving VW Golf GTi.

According to The Daily Mail, the souped-up Golf deploys "electronic 'eyes' that use radar and laser sensors in the grille to 'read' the road and send the details back to its computer brain", while a sat-nav system "tracks its exact position with pin-point precision to within an inch".

It gets worse: "On a race circuit, it drove itself faster and more precisely than the VW engineers could manage - and can accelerate independently up to its top speed of 150mph," the Mail notes with admiration*.

Volvo
December 2012
The company is preparing to release an initial batch of autonomous vehicles, capable of speeds of up to 31 miles per hour, in 2014. We know from the SARTRE project that the automaker has been able to achieve autonomous speeds of 53 miles per hour in traffic for long distances, though they aren't disclosing when those higher-speed prototypes would be publicly available.

All of this has been mostly accomplished or even further advanced. EVs may eventually fade off for good, but the goal of a self-driving car will always sit on manufacturers' white boards. Zero reason to chalk it up with any criticism of EVs.
 
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So basically you're a conspiracy theorist?
Did you read the rest of my post?

@McLaren: You 're pointing out to me something I already know. So, to make my position clear: it is possible to make an ICE autonomous, although the process of doing so is more complex than with an EV. Now regarding autonomous vehicles staying as an objective of the mentioned manufacturers no matter the powertrain, it goes to show said manufacturers are ignoring the dangers posed by autonomous vehicles. Sensors do an awful job in bad weather and apparently have large blind angles, so the goal of "hands-free" etc is outright impossible, regardless the amount of lobbying by the companies that make said sensors and whoever else. And don't anyone tell me those companies "just do business". Going as far as to push for making these systems mandatory is far beyond any legitimate business practice and enters directly into the spectrum of fascism. And mind you, EVs have also been pushed for mandatory status, so again fascism. I don't mind options existing on the market, but having one bad option and nothing else is a no-go.
 
Did you read the rest of my post?

@McLaren: You 're pointing out to me something I already know. So, to make my position clear: it is possible to make an ICE autonomous, although the process of doing so is more complex than with an EV. Now regarding autonomous vehicles staying as an objective of the mentioned manufacturers no matter the powertrain, it goes to show said manufacturers are ignoring the dangers posed by autonomous vehicles. Sensors do an awful job in bad weather and apparently have large blind angles, so the goal of "hands-free" etc is outright impossible, regardless the amount of lobbying by the companies that make said sensors and whoever else. And don't anyone tell me those companies "just do business". Going as far as to push for making these systems mandatory is far beyond any legitimate business practice and enters directly into the spectrum of fascism. And mind you, EVs have also been pushed for mandatory status, so again fascism. I don't mind options existing on the market, but having one bad option and nothing else is a no-go.
The amount of Waymos driving around San Francisco at any given moment, completely autonomously (often without anyone in the car at all), with the safety record they have, puts a lot of pressure on your argument. I'm not saying they are perfect, but "outright impossible" has already proven to be false.
 
Now regarding autonomous vehicles staying as an objective of the mentioned manufacturers no matter the powertrain, it goes to show said manufacturers are ignoring the dangers posed by autonomous vehicles.

I get being wary of autonomous cars, especially given the potential dangers. But we should also compare those risks to the ones we already accept with human drivers. Because when you take a step back, most of the dangers on the road today come from very human problems: Distraction, fatigue, impairment, emotions and simple mistakes. Autonomous systems introduce new kinds of risks, but on the other hand there is a myriad of danger sources you would eliminate by taking the human driver out of the equation. What really matters isn’t whether they’re perfect, it’s whether they can be safer than humans overall. And keeping in mind that (unlike humans) autonomous cars can be systematically improved over time, I'm fairly certain that the balance will eventually tip in their favour.
 
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I did. Didn't see anything that supports your claim.
Seriously? The changes in law making this stuff mandatory, the companies trying to get a guaranteed market for their sensors? This is all stuff you should be able to look up and judge for yourself. And again, I 'm not against manufacturers trying to create the option of autonomous cars. What I am against is making them mandatory.

@Eunos_Cosmo: This probably means the local society has somewhat managed to adapt to them. Where I live however, this is not as likely to happen. Most people I 've talked with about this absolutely hate it, to the point of suspecting that I support it! Yet the government just blindly accepts all EU mandates, as if those non-elected crooks in Brussels were the gods of wisdom or whatever. And btw please someone let your president know Belgium is a country rather than a city.

@Baka_Marimo: Humans can also be systematically improved, in a considerably cheaper, faster and less wasteful way: drivers' ed. It 's just that governments don't want to improve it and don't want to help alleviate the insane pace of life that has been caused by their faults (see for example the deteriorated working conditions and how inflation eats up wages and pensions). Those "human dangers" are all caused by these very fixable factors I mentioned. Especially distraction can be fixed if people simply put their phones and cigs down when driving. And you make less mistakes if you actually know what you 're doing. Also, machines of such complexity are bound to not last long enough - when they break down beyond repair you 'll see the point of human skill. Or maybe you 'll buy a new machine and get yourself further into debt just for the sake of showing off how "advanced" you are, making the rich richer and yourself poorer.

Overall, as a Greek, I have a piece of advice for all of you fellow westerners. Don't trust your governments that much. When they tell you something is for your own good, it usually turns out really bad.
 
Seriously? The changes in law making this stuff mandatory, the companies trying to get a guaranteed market for their sensors? This is all stuff you should be able to look up and judge for yourself.
Do you have any sources?
And again, I 'm not against manufacturers trying to create the option of autonomous cars. What I am against is making them mandatory.
Where did you hear that autonomous cars are becoming mandatory?
 
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