Sony in serious trouble?

[Famine]

I appreciate you might be unfamiliar with the AUP:

If you question someone, it must be done in a reasonable and semi-friendly manner.

 

[LaBounti]

Wow magburner. Sony is not in any kinda of trouble. 3rd place does not mean things are bad. With the most expensive systems its going to be that way for a while. The order of the big 3 is all based on their strategies. Cheapest, Earliest, Most Expensive.
The gap between the ps3 and 360 is virtually the same number of 360 systems that were on the market before the Ps3 launched.

Not being interested in the games is your own issue.

 

[Peter]

Sony is planning a crapload of new stuff next year. The ps3 is getting a price cut, home will be released, maybe GT5 might sneek up on us and loads of other stuff. Sony is far away from trouble, theyre just waiting until 2009 to kill Microsoft and Nintendo.

 

[Joey D]

Sony is planning a crapload of new stuff next year. The ps3 is getting a price cut, home will be released, maybe GT5 might sneek up on us and loads of other stuff. Sony is far away from trouble, theyre just waiting until 2009 to kill Microsoft and Nintendo.

- Source on the PS3 price cut?

Sony: No PS3 price cut on way - Praise for Xbox 360 and Wii
Whether you believe Sony and the PS3 are in trouble or not is personal opinion. But the one thing everybody seems to agree on is that the Playstation 3 needs a price cut and quick. Unfortunately it’s not going to happen for a long time to come, as SCEE President David Reeves has now confirmed. However, he did have praise for the PS3’s rivals.

I don’t believe the PS3 is in trouble at all. Sure, it’s currently third in the sales rankings this generation and sure, there’s a good chance that’s where it will remain. But all three consoles have sold enough to ensure a three-way next gen, and all three home consoles have done the industry some good.

However, the PS3 is too expensive. I know you get a lot of kit for your money, such as a Blu-ray player, a state of the art games machine, Home, and some brilliant exclusive games, but it’s still too expensive, especially compared to the Xbox 360 and Wii.

There were rumors of a price cut on its way in the Spring but Sony has already denied it. And now SCEE (Sony Computer Entertainment Europe) President David Reeves has confirmed Sony’s commitment to the current price point.

In an interview with MCV, he stated quite categorically:

No, we are not going to go down in price on PS3 – neither are we going to go down in price on PS3 in spring time either. Absolutely not, whatever you might have heard to the contrary. Our strategy is very much value added.

I can’t help thinking that’s a mistake because although many people have already bought a PS3 or are going to regardless of the cost, it’s miles away from that mainstream consumer sweet spot that the Wii launched at and the Xbox 360 has recently been reduced to. I know it’s a business but man, that’s surely cutting your nose off to spite your face.

However, David Reeves did please me with some of his comments.

I know it’s natural for competing companies to dismiss each other’s products and try to besmirch their rivals’ reputations, but I must admit to growing tired of the petty squabbling. Can’t we all just get on? The games industry is notorious for marketing efforts and interview comments that focus as much on the competition as the company doing the talking.

But Reeves eschewed the nasty talk and actually praised Nintendo and Microsoft, saying:

Nintendo have only done good things. They have expanded geographically and dramatically extended demographically. They have never been afraid to try new products, be that hardware, or software or peripherals. In a way, they have strength in silence as they don’t have to say too much. That’s really good, and it works for them.

For Microsoft, again, I can understand that, again, they have put money into the market and have initiated growth. In some ways what they have done is brought forward consumers from next year into this year.

By bringing the price down they are trying to establish themselves quickly, as they did with the first Xbox. But they have built online in a meaningful way and the competition they have brought to the market place is great.

Now that wasn’t too hard was it. Reeves may have disappointed millions of people hoping for a PS3 price cut in the near future but his comments on the competition have at least given me hope that there are some decent bods left in the cut-throat world of gaming.

Source: http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/12/19/sony-no-ps3-price-cut-on-way-praise-for-xbox-360-and-wii/

Action ‘Station (excerpt)

Does that mean once you’ve broken even you will reduce the price of the hardware to stimulate more sales?

No, we are not going to go down in price on PS3 – neither are we going to go down in price on PS3 in spring time either. Absolutely not, whatever you might have heard to the contrary. Our strategy is very much value added.

That doesn’t mean we are going to add pieces of software – we might add original ideas to the machine. What we want is to make the machine value for money.

The long-term objective of the company is the growth of the industry. During the 12 to 13 years we have been in the market, the handheld and static console market has grown by over 350 per cent, which is hugely dramatic. Software has gone up even more, and our objective is to grow the industry to bring it into credibility.

Full interview: http://www.mcvuk.com/interviews/394/Action-Station

Also...
- Home is already released even though it is in a beta phase. As long as you own a PS3 and have internet access you can be on Home.
- GT5 is a maybe at best.
- I doubt there will be any killing involved, especially since we have not heard everything being released for next year yet. I agree the PS3 is coming on strong in terms of sales though.

 

[Dave A]

I've read though the whole thread and seen what has and hasn't been replied to so I'll start with this..

No. If you look at the title of this thread, I asked if Sony was in trouble, that's what the question mark at the end of the title thread signifies, a question. I will admit that I have stated a case that they might be, but the purpose of this thread was as much a statement as a question.

That is a fair comment, I appreciate that yoour argument leans towards Sony being in trouble but you are not stating that they are. So that's fair enough.

It is not an exaggeration! The only advert I have seen on TV is for LBP (the one where the dog blows up), and nothing Else.

In that case it is an exaggeration, you said non-existant. Nnon-existant would mean that there would be absolutely no adverts at all. Personally I know that there are more adverts than just that one. I've seen other adverts for LBP and I can recall thatI've seen adverts for Resistance 2 as well, and I rarely watch TV.

Maybe, I'm boiling the kettle every time the Sony adverts are on, but I can guarantee every time I sit down with my steaming mug of Joe, a 360 advert will pop up! Fable 2, Infinite Undiscovery, Gears of War 2, lips, all those adverts with a cinema in the back of a girls head, the constant £129.99 adverts featuring every game that is currently available.

I agree that the XB360's advertising campaign is a lot bigger than Sony's but that isn't preventing the PS3 from selling very well.

Uh, that is a lie. Most of the titles I have brought for the PS3 have been release practically untested, or so it would seem buy the poor quality of the games in question.

It's not a total lie but it's not a totally fair argument either. I've played rushed releases for both systems. I've played great games for both systems too. I own a PS3 and an XB360 and tbh I'm playing the PS3 far more often which admittedly is still only a small ammount of time but I'm spending more time on PS3 games than 360 games. This however is personal to me and I would expect different answers from different people.

I have no option but to be optimistic. I made a significant investment in the PS3 brand, and I have yet to see a return.

In my personal experience I've found more return form the PS3 than I have my XB360. There is nothing wrong with your opinion on the games and prices and value for money of the PS3 and it's games but don't use that as ammunition to use in this debate. This is simply your opinion and it can (and is) be countered very easilly simply with other opinions but at the end of an argument like that your left with no facts.

The proof is in the pudding, or so they say! GT5 is a great looking game, and so is MGS4. Out of the two though, I would say that MGS4 is the better game, but only just.

I'd agree, I'm a big MGS fan though. I also enjoy FIFA 09 a lot. I'm not the person to go into games though, I don't play often or own enough games. I'd assume a lot of people would put GTAIV up there too, however I don't own that game yet.

Maybe its the Christmas release schedule or something, but I have seen some super games come out for the 360 (GoW2, Fable 2, Infinite Undiscovery, Quantum of Solice etc), and they already have a superb and in-depth racing simulation. Us PS3 gamers are still waiting (for you know what).

None of thoes games interest me. At all.

Uh... The stores name Is Game! And yes, the rack is twice as big!

I've visited Game in the Trafford Centre a couple of times in the last 2 months and I saw plenty of PS3 games. The same can be said for HMV in Stockport, though the 360 rack is bigger there it's not much bigger.

Here is a good barometer for game sales in the UK check out the top 100 best sellers at Play.com:

Top 100 best sellers

Notice the 360 whitewash on the charts? Apart from all the the cross platform titles, M$ has four exclusives in the top 100, whilst Sony has none, and there is no sign whatsoever of LBP (the one game that Sony is advertising on TV!). Judging by the chart, the only serious competition M$ have is with the Wii, or is that the other way around?

I see 15 XB360 titles in the top 50 and 12 PS3 titles in there. Hardly huge. I will agree, the XB360 is likely selling more games, however there are more XB360's out there. this isn't however due to the XB360 being a better seller than the PS3, it's due to the PS3 being released over a year (well over in some areas) after the XB360. More consoles sold generally will mean more games sold, that chart doesn't suprise me at all. The PS3 has been catching up to the XB360's overall sales and the current sales of games for both systems does not suggest that there was such a big gap between the tw consoles launches.

Compare these console bundle offers at Game:

360 console bundles

The Average price for a 360 bundle is £166.62

PS3 console bundles

The average price for a PS3 bundle is £261.71

And yet the PS3 is still selling well.

Now, the hardcore of Sony fans will of already brought a PS3 by now. All of my friends that were waiting for the system to fall below the psychological £300 barrier have done so. All that Sony have left to persuade are the floaters. with a price point £100 higher than that of the 360, they are not doing themselves any favours.

Stick to facts please, they have been selling PS3's very well. This is still the case, there is no dip happening. This suggests otherwise to what you are stating.

I will hold my hand up to that, it was an uncalled for rant. This thread is hardly in the same league though. 👍

Yet more 'misleading' evidence:

Hardware Sales (vgchartz)

Check out the big chart in the middle of the page, that backs up what I have been saying (notice Sony in 3rd place).

Yes, and unsuprisingly so. No one has said or suggested that the PS3 has sold more systems overall, what is being said is that the PS3 is generally selling better than the XB360. The Xb360 launched a lot earlier than the PS3, so naturally it had sold a fair few million systems before the PS3 was launched in it's first market let alone worldwide.

Now compare the sales figures to that of the 360, and you see an almost 2:1 ratio in total units sold at that point in time, though there is a marked difference in sales per territory. In North America, the figure is clearly 2:1, in Europe, the figures are much closer, but total sales are lower also. Its pointless even comparing the PS3 to Nintendo's offerings as Nintendo are appealing to a totally different market than that of the PS3 or the 360.

The Wii is appealing to a far wider audience, I think everyone accepts that. The PS3 is a direct competitor to the XB360.

http://www.vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php...All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&start=39103&end=39803

Weekly sales figures for the Wii, 360, and the PS3 from January 2007 upto 20th December 2008 (every territory)

This is the most interesting chart of all! Throughout the last two years, Sony and M$ have traded lead regularly, with sales matched very closely. If you look at the last 6 months though, M$ have sold significantly more console per week than the PS3, proof that their 'blanket advertising' strategy is working. It will also be interesting to see the sales figures post Christmas, to see if the plan that Sony has is really working.

That is interesting it meerely suggests that towards the end of this year Microsofts marketing has been working. It doesn't indicate that the PS3 or Sony is in trouble. As you noted, annual sales are very close, Sony we're peaking earlier in the year MS have peaked later in the year. Sony have closed ground on the XB360, ie the lead MS had in sales at the time the PS3 was launched was bigger than the lead they have now. More things point to this lead closing over the long run than consistently expaning.

Sony IS in trouble, if the evidence of these charts is to be believed. Maybe its not the 'red flag waving' trouble that you may of assumed, but the market share they once enjoyed has gone. Whether it be because if the price of the system, the quality of the games, or the credit crunch. The strangle hold that Sony once had over the console market has been shattered.

I'd wait until next christmas before I say that, I can only counter your speculation with a speculative comment of my own though.

Maybe we've been spoilt these past ten years with the success that Sony has generated, but the realities of this generation are that the market is not led by Sony.

That market is not led by Microsoft and it's certainly not led by Nintendo. Thoes sale charts do one thing, they show you overall sales. They do not show you market value. For all your though process you seem to have forgotten to add one important value into your equations and that is profit. Now it's no secret that a lot of companies, and big companies, are finding it hard to make profits at the moment. But I can tell you that Microsofts gaming division is operating at huge losses and that I read a forcast a couple of months back that predicted that unless MS could turn that around then there are very big question makrks over them creating a successor to the 360. It's wanst a pro Sony or PS3 article, it was simply dealing with the financial situation of MS's gaming division.

You say that I have minority opinions, I could say that of yours, too. We both own PS3s, so you could say that what we both say is in a minority (compared to actual sales figures).

You could say that, but take a look around you. Your opinion seems to be a minority one from where I'm reading.

I desperately want Sony to succeed, but for that to happen, they have to take on the 360, which is something Sony seem unwilling or unable to do. In a funny kind of way I can respect what Sony are doing, but like I have said, they need to be more forthcoming with the titles, and we need a certified 'killer app' to get those floaters spending big bucks. 👍

Let me go back to the finacial aspect I touched on just before. There's no doubt that Sony could spend a lot of money and make a huge push on PS3 marketing wise and drop the PS3s price and still have a healthy company in 12 months time. But if they do that would SCE be a healthy division within that comapny. Probably not. The way Sony is operating at the moment put's them in a much safer position than MS. Sales wise they are doing very well. Right now MS sales have peaked for the year, there is no evidence to suggest that they will sustain this peak beyond Christmas. Infact the peak is probably already over. Sony had a peak earlier in the year, big deal, at that time you didn't see people running around 360 bords claiming it was all over for MS, or if you did I bet the response they got pointed out they were wrong. The truth is we don't know who will win this console battle, the evidence to date to me points to Sony beating MS from a company perspective. MS are making too big a loss imo and thats even with them charing for things like playing online. I think there's as good a chance we'll see a new XB as the chances are that we won't but I think we will definitely see a PS4.

Right now as in at this point in time Sony and MS are taking two different approaches. Both can pay off. Sony will take sales as they are coming, MS are making a big push though. A big push costs a lot of money meaning you have to make a big return in sales. I think The 360 is selling well, I hope we see a new console form MS but I don't see anything that suggest that MS and the XB360 is currently doing better from a business perspective than Sony and the PS3.

 

[magburner]

Wow magburner. Sony is not in any kinda of trouble.

Well if you count being out sold by 2-1 by your main competitor, in the most important territory no trouble, then yes Sony are in rude health! 👍

Sony is planning a crapload of new stuff next year. The ps3 is getting a price cut, home will be released, maybe GT5 might sneek up on us and loads of other stuff. Sony is far away from trouble, theyre just waiting until 2009 to kill Microsoft and Nintendo.

This is all just speculation, and one of the main reasons for my rant in the first place - we've had to put up with two years of this stuff already! THIS YEAR was supposed to be the year you are claiming next year will be! What happens when next year is not? Will it be the year after that?

Also, care to explain what the 'crapload of new stuff' actually is?

In that case it is an exaggeration, you said non-existant. Nnon-existant would mean that there would be absolutely no adverts at all. Personally I know that there are more adverts than just that one. I've seen other adverts for LBP and I can recall thatI've seen adverts for Resistance 2 as well, and I rarely watch TV.

Can I insert 'almost' in there? I haven't seen an advert for Resistance 2 yet, I think I may of seem one for Motorstorm 2 a while back, but I can't be sure.

None of those games interest me. At all.

Out of all the games I mentioned, only Fable 2 really Infinite Undiscovery really interest me. Where are the PS3 equivalents? Being a fan of Japanese RPGs, I'd like to see some games like the aforementioned on the PS3.

And yet the PS3 is still selling well.

Stick to facts please, they have been selling PS3's very well. This is still the case, there is no dip happening. This suggests otherwise to what you are stating.

Here's an article on CNN Money which claims that PS3 sales are 'plummeting'. It also highlights some of the issues I have detailed here (eg poor software catalogue).

Alone among the three major videogame consoles, sales of the PS3 are down about 19% from November 2007, according to the latest stats from the NPD Group. Sony was only able to sell 378,000 PS3s this November, compared to 466,000 last year.

Sony's PS3 A Sinking Ship: Sales Plummet (full article)

My argument is also backed up with data from VGchartz.

I see 15 XB360 titles in the top 50 and 12 PS3 titles in there. Hardly huge. I will agree, the XB360 is likely selling more games, however there are more XB360's out there.

Yes, but how many of the PS3 games are cross platform? Take out the cross platform titles, and Sony would'n't have anything in the chart! Where are the PS3 exclusives? The 360 wouldn't have many more titles in the chart, but at least they have some exclusives!

I'd wait until next christmas before I say that, I can only counter your speculation with a speculative comment of my own though.

Again, this is the crux of my argument - waiting! When I initially brought my console at launch, I expected a one or two year wait before the jaw dropping games finally started to hit the shelves, I never contemplated three years though! And that is a speculative 3 years. I think that Killzone will finally arrive next year sometime, I'm not so sure about GT5 though.

Where are any of the second generation PS3 games? M$ has plenty, and within the first two years, they were releasing second generation games for its console. Sony have been a lot slower in that respect with only two (GT5 and MGS4) being worthy of note.

But I can tell you that Microsofts gaming division is operating at huge losses and that I read a forcast a couple of months back that predicted that unless MS could turn that around then there are very big question makrks over them creating a successor to the 360. It's wanst a pro Sony or PS3 article, it was simply dealing with the financial situation of MS's gaming division.

I can well believe that the M$ gaming division is operating at a loss, but it still doesn't stop them selling units at a faster rate than the PS3. I seriously doubt that M$ would ever pull out of the console market though, they have invested too much into the Xbox brand.

I do believe in the ten year plan that Sony have often mentioned though. I don't know exactly what that plan entails, but I suspect it has a lot to do with the successor of the Xbox 360, rather than the 360 itself.

Sony has spent billions developing the PS3, in particular the CBE. I can believe that future PS's will have multiple CBEs, with only the graphics processor needing a major update. M$ on the other hand will have to go back to the drawing board for the next console if they ever make one, which of course will entail massive investment.

I also personally think that M$ are 'trying' to do their usual destroy the competition trick this generation.

Think about it. I strongly believe that the PS3 is FAR superior to the 360 (that's why I brought it in the first place), I'm sure M$ have figured that out too. So how do you beat a superior product? You flood the market with inferior ones, making the superior product look unattractive. M$ did it with Internet Explorer and look how Netscape went under.

I seriously doubt that anyone other than first party developers will ever utilise all if any of the power of the CBE, purely because the 360 doesn't have one. The 360 (because of market share), is the system to develop for at the moment. So because of this, games on the PS3 will never be that different from those on the 360 (even though the PS3 itself may be capable of much, much more).

Traditionally, the quality of the games available on each system has been the deciding factor, but this generation it is not. Don't get me wrong, Sony has some unbelievable games in development, but other than that, they are not releasing first party games at a rate they have historically (which is a shame, as I think Sony's first party games are superb). The only other area left to fight over is the price, and what do you know? M$ have Sony beat there too.

Foolkiller stated that the price drop on the 360 was due partly to the usual mid-generation price drop phenomenon. I think that he is true, but I also believe that M$ have intentionally chosen to sell the 360 at a significant loss, because it is more important to have systems in homes than it is to actually make money off them.

You could say that, but take a look around you. Your opinion seems to be a minority one from where I'm reading.

Of course, this is a forum based on a Playstation game. Look around the web though, and you will see that I'm not the only one that thinks like this.

 

[Dave A]

You know what magburner, some of what you are saying is well grounded. I dissagree with your overall view though that the PS3 isn't doing well and doesn't offer enough, but certain aspects of your post holds some weight to it. I think that getting to the stage where you want to see the PS3 at is just a matter of time, there are plenty of good games out for the PS3 now, depending on what you're into ofcourse. The 360 does have a larger library of titles, it probably is have games churned out at a faster rate too, but tbh relatively few look decent. I can say the same thing about the PS3 games though, there's only a fraction of games that I end up buying.

The PS3 has only been out for 2 years, what you want to see will come, no doubt about that. The XB360 hadn't released much in terms of quality games within it's first two years. Infact the only game I can think of is Forza 2 which came a year and a half after launch. I enjoyed that table tennis game too, but that wasn't a killer app as they say. The PS3 is two years old, it's at this point traditionally that a console starts producing, this was the case with the PS1, PS2, XB and is the case currently with the XB360. The PS3 perhaps isn't offering quite as much content as the XB360 was last christmas, but I do feel that you are exaggerating the difference. The vast majority of XB360 games that really are good came out this year.

 

[Joey D]

The PS3 has only been out for 2 years, what you want to see will come, no doubt about that. The XB360 hadn't released much in terms of quality games within it's first two years.

The first two years didn't yield very many decent games on the 360? The 360 came out 22 Nov 05 so I'll look at games up to 22 Nov 07. I'll try to keep it 360 exclusive, although something like BioShock it was on the 360 before the PS3.

PGR3 (2005) was good scoring a 88/100 on metacritic.
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/projectgothamracing3?q=project gotham racing 3

PGR4 (2007) 85/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/projectgothamracing4?q=Project Gotham Racing 4

Gears of War (2006) 94/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/gearsofwar?q=gears of war

Ace Combat 6 (2007) 80/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/pla...iberation?q=Ace Combat 6: Fires of Liberation

BioShock (2007) 96/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/bioshock?q=BioShock

Condemned: Criminal Origins (2005) 81/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/condemnedcriminalorigins?q=Condemned: Criminal Origins

Crackdown (2007) 83/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/crackdown?q=Crackdown

Forza 2, but you've already mentioned that.

Halo 3 (2007) 94/100...I think it's crap but whatever.
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/halo3?q=Halo 3

Mass Effect, released on the two year anniversary of the system 91/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/masseffect?q=Mass Effect

Moto GP 06 (2006) 80/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/motogp06?q=MotoGP '06

Dead Rising (2006) 85/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/deadrising?q=dead rising

Saints Row (2006) 81/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/saintsrow?q=Saints Row

Viva Piñata 84/100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/xbox360/vivapinata?q=Viva Pinata

That's just what I could come up with off the top of my head too. There were great games in the 360's early years and I'm sure the same can be said about the PS3 as well.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Nobody will deny that Sony is getting a hard time where the PS3 is concerned, but I hope you don't mind I don't put much faith in articles that call the PS3 'a sinking ship' based on the results of one (!) quarter. That's just the writers spicing up the headlines to get more readers, I hope everybody can see through that.

And calling the Xbox 360 inferior is nonsense. It has some drawbacks, but also several advantages over the PS3. Remember it's not just about the specs of the console, but the whole package surrounding it like content, online features, price, etc. And the Xbox 360 delivers a solid gaming experience, you cannot deny that. I wouldn't dare calling the Wii inferior either, because there are so many people enjoy playing with it.

Personally, I think the real loser in the near future is going to be the Wii (in terms of sales). Hardly any good games at all and once the novelty wears off, sales will plummet (my opinion). I see so many people selling their Wii's to get an Xbox 360 or PS3. That said, Nintendo doesn't care one bit if does, because they made plenty of money and put themselves back in console land. Their mission is accomplished. The Wiimote/Nunchuk is a masterpiece. 👍

 

[Joey D]

With the Wii you have to remember it's not for hardcore gamers. My mom plays it all the time as she loves Wii sports and she'll be getting Wii Fit here shortly as an xmas present. It's also something that can replace family game night by taking away the boring board games and adding something mom, dad, and the kids can like. Heck even my grandpa, who's in his 70's and is in a nursing home with Alzheimer's plays a Wii as a daily activity.

 

[Dave A]

The first two years didn't yield very many decent games on the 360? The 360 came out 22 Nov 05 so I'll look at games up to 22 Nov 07. I'll try to keep it 360 exclusive, although something like BioShock it was on the 360 before the PS3.

That's just what I could come up with off the top of my head too. There were great games in the 360's early years and I'm sure the same can be said about the PS3 as well.

If all you're doing is looking at review scores then I can easilly find 10 or more PS3 games with scores of 80+ or 8/10. How many of thoes are geniunely killer titles, Halo 3, PGR 3, GoW and Forza 2. Anyone can talk good review scores, there's plenty of games with thoes on the PS3, doesn't make them all killer titles though does it. Maybe I shouldn't have said the 360 didn't have much in terms of quality, what I'm talking about is first class titles, games like MGS4 and Forza 2 they were top tier games. The PS3 has had plenty of exclusives that have had decent review ratings including the likes of...
MGS4
Motorstorm
GT5
LBP
Resistance
Resistance 2
Warhawk
Valkyria Chronicles
Crash Commando
Ridge Racer 7
and Formula One Championship Edition
All PS3 exclusive titles released within the first 2 years that have gained an 8/10 or 80/100 or higher rating.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Heck even my grandpa, who's in his 70's and is in a nursing home with Alzheimer's plays a Wii as a daily activity.

Like I said, the Wiimote is a piece of art, it makes the console usable for everybody, including your parents and grandparents. Still, people call the Wii inferior because it's basically an upgraded Gamecube. Which is nonsense, because the Wii is simply a revolution in gaming. What other console has ever succeeded in getting your grandparents to play videogames? But Nintendo should put more effort in getting more quality games to the Wii. Like the PS3, the Wii has so much more potential! Calling any of the current consoles inferior is nonsense, they all have their specific strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Joey D]

If all you're doing is looking at review scores then I can easilly find 10 or more PS3 games with scores of 80+ or 8/10. How manyof thoes are geniunely killer titles, Halo 3, PGR 3 and Forza 2, if you're pushing then you could add PGR 4. Anyone can talk good review scores, there's plenty of games with thoes on the PS3, doesn't make them all killer titles though does it.

PGR3, PGR4, Gears of War, BioShock, Crackdown, Forza 2, Halo 3, Mass Effect, Saints Row, Dead Rising, and Viva Piñata all were fairly big titles for the 360. I also never said you couldn't do the same thing in the PS3's early years, in fact I said you could.

Like it or not positive reviews typically mean it's a good game or at least going to be a successful one. I hated Gears of War, Halo 3, Dead Rising, and BioShock but that does not mean they weren't great games, they just were not for me.

Like I said, the Wiimote is a piece of art, it makes the console usable for everybody, including your parents and grandparents. Still, people call the Wii inferior because it's basically an upgraded Gamecube. Which is nonsense, because the Wii is simply a revolution in gaming. What other console has ever succeeded in getting your grandparents to play videogames? But Nintendo should put more effort in getting more quality games to the Wii. Like the PS3, the Wii has so much more potential! Calling any of the current consoles inferior is nonsense, they all have their specific strengths and weaknesses.

I wholeheartedly agree. I think you'll start to see the PS3 start to be used to it's full potential this year, even Uncharted 2 is rumoured to be using 100% of the PS3's power which will really showcase what the system is capable of.

 

[Dave A]

I was busy editing my post when you replied but I'll quote what I added below.

"Maybe I shouldn't have said the 360 didn't have much in terms of quality, what I'm talking about is first class titles, games like MGS4 and Forza 2 they were top tier games. The PS3 has had plenty of exclusives that have had decent review ratings including the likes of...
MGS4
Motorstorm
GT5
LBP
Resistance
Resistance 2
Warhawk
Valkyria Chronicles
Crash Commando
Ridge Racer 7
and Formula One Championship Edition
All PS3 exclusive titles released within the first 2 years that have gained an 8/10 or 80/100 or higher rating."

So you see, it's pretty easy to pull out high scoring games for one system or another, if you concentrate on facts then, the facts point to plenty of well scoring games for the PS3 as well as XB360.

 

[LouTs337]

- Source on the PS3 price cut?



Source: http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/12/19/sony-no-ps3-price-cut-on-way-praise-for-xbox-360-and-wii/



Full interview: http://www.mcvuk.com/interviews/394/Action-Station

Also...
- Home is already released even though it is in a beta phase. As long as you own a PS3 and have internet access you can be on Home.
- GT5 is a maybe at best.
- I doubt there will be any killing involved, especially since we have not heard everything being released for next year yet. I agree the PS3 is coming on strong in terms of sales though.

a large couple of stores dropped PS3 prices to 300 euro's now for a couple of weeks here in holland, not sure if its gonna stay this way. 👍

 

[Joey D]

Are you just not reading what I'm writing?

I AM NOT DISAGREEING THE PS3 HASN'T HAD NUMEROUS HIGH SCORING OR GOOD TITLES IN IT'S FIRST TWO YEARS.

All I'm doing is pointing out that the 360 also had stellar titles even though you seem to think it didn't.

 

[Dave A]

That's fair enough Joey but with that in mind why did you pick my comment about the 360 games from my post and ignore the overall suggestion that the PS3 is in a simialr situation if you wern't looking to take sides. If you deemed that quoted comment as incorrect then simply putting it into context with the rest of the post would have saved the bother this little diversion and then you would have simply been able to agree that they are in similar situations games wise .

 

[Joey D]

That's fair enough Joey but with that in mind why did you pick my comment about the 360 games from my post and ignore the overall suggestion that the PS3 is in a simialr situation if you wern't looking to take sides. If you deemed that quoted comment as incorrect then simply putting it into context with the rest of the post would have saved the bother this little diversion and then you would have simply been able to agree that they are in similar situations games wise .

Once again I am not talking about the PS3 here, you suggested that only a very small amount of decent games came out for the 360 in it's first two years. I showed you that is not the case. I am sure the PS3 has just as many good games out currently, so yes the PS3 is in the same situation the 360 was in during it's first two years. Many good games that are often overlooked just because they came out during the system's infancy.

This is not taking sides either since I am saying that pretty much both system's early life is more or less the same in terms of quality of games.

 

[Dave A]

No Joey, you took one comment away from the context it was written in. Once again I was suggesting that the PS3 and XB360 are in a comparable situation when you take their release dates into consideration. With that in mind if I make the comment that there wasn't much in the way of quality between x and y periods about on console I am clearly saying the same about the other since I am putting them on a relatively level field here. The use of the word "much" which is what your replies have been based on can be taken differently by different people. I accept I could have been clearer as I have already said but the comment you have picked up on is not wrong as the interpretation of that one word can mean what I was suggesting as not set value is attached to it. By the time both consoles are 5 years old we will see a much higher number of qualty game than we can now.

I accept that you are not taking sides, but with that in mind I can't understand why you would take one comment about the XB360 and none about the PS3.

 

[LaBounti]

Well if you count being out sold by 2-1 by your main competitor, in the most important territory no trouble, then yes Sony are in rude health!

Being outsold and not selling at all are two very different things. Being outsold is not bad, not selling is.

I wonder how much longer this will stay open

 

[magburner]

You know what magburner, some of what you are saying is well grounded. I dissagree with your overall view though that the PS3 isn't doing well and doesn't offer enough, but certain aspects of your post holds some weight to it.

Thanks. 👍 I don't think that Sony are doomed (well, I hope they are not), but I do think that they are sailing a little close to the wind with the PS3. Sony at the moment don't seem as focussed as M$ or Nintendo, they have a lot going on, some of which is slowly coming into place, but some of it which is still speculation.

I think that getting to the stage where you want to see the PS3 at is just a matter of time, there are plenty of good games out for the PS3 now, depending on what you're into ofcourse. The 360 does have a larger library of titles, it probably is have games churned out at a faster rate too, but tbh relatively few look decent. I can say the same thing about the PS3 games though, there's only a fraction of games that I end up buying.

Time I've got, patience, well I have, but its slowly ebbing away. If Killzone is released on schedule, it will renew my faith, but I am still sceptical about when it will be released.

The PS3 has only been out for 2 years, what you want to see will come, no doubt about that. The XB360 hadn't released much in terms of quality games within it's first two years. Infact the only game I can think of is Forza 2 which came a year and a half after launch. I enjoyed that table tennis game too, but that wasn't a killer app as they say.

Forza 2 is a very good reason to buy a 360 (I'm even contemplating the idea myself), but Sony don't have a game like that. As Awesome as GT5 is, it is only a glorified demo, and demos don't sell systems. MGS4 is a superb game, but there are rumours (true or otherwise), that it will appear on the 360 sometime in the near future. Other than that, what are the PS3 system sellers?

The PS3 is two years old, it's at this point traditionally that a console starts producing, this was the case with the PS1, PS2, XB and is the case currently with the XB360. The PS3 perhaps isn't offering quite as much content as the XB360 was last christmas, but I do feel that you are exaggerating the difference. The vast majority of XB360 games that really are good came out this year.

Yeah, I will agree, I have gone a little over the top, but only as a means for stirring debate. But then again, if you knew my posting style, you would see thats how I 'do it'. 👍

Nobody will deny that Sony is getting a hard time where the PS3 is concerned, but I hope you don't mind I don't put much faith in articles that call the PS3 'a sinking ship' based on the results of one (!) quarter. That's just the writers spicing up the headlines to get more readers, I hope everybody can see through that.

I will agree that the title was a little melodramatic, but this is CNN Money, not 1up.com. You could hardly call CNN 360 fanboys. Of course, the statistics they have produced are correct, regardless the wording of the title!

And calling the Xbox 360 inferior is nonsense. It has some drawbacks, but also several advantages over the PS3. Remember it's not just about the specs of the console, but the whole package surrounding it like content, online features, price, etc. And the Xbox 360 delivers a solid gaming experience, you cannot deny that. I wouldn't dare calling the Wii inferior either, because there are so many people enjoy playing with it.

It all depends on what you class as inferior. Early 360 systems were indeed inferior, proof of this was in the RROD fiasco.

As I have said earlier, We know what the 360 is capable of, we also know that the PS3 is more than capable of recreating 360 quality of games. What we don't yet know, is whether the 360 is capable of recreating PS3 quality games (ie games that utilise the full power of the CBE). If I was a suit at Sony, I would be offering incentives to games developers to create games that maximise the power of the CBE. This will put daylight between both systems, and if done correctly, could potentially bury the 360. What Sony needs are killer 3rd party games that have been coded specifically for the CBE.

I will heap praise on the online capabilities of the 360 though. I wish Sony would provide a paid for service as this would give us all recourse. Last Christmas, many M$ customers had connection issues, and because they paid for their service, M$ was obligated to make ammends, which they did. Sony though have no such obligation as they are offering the service for free, on an 'as is' basis. I personally think this is a bad idea. It might win over the guys that don't want to pay a subscription fee, but it also gives us no means of accountability.

Personally, I think the real loser in the near future is going to be the Wii (in terms of sales). Hardly any good games at all and once the novelty wears off, sales will plummet (my opinion). I see so many people selling their Wii's to get an Xbox 360 or PS3. That said, Nintendo doesn't care one bit if does, because they made plenty of money and put themselves back in console land.

Your right on this one, but I don't think they will lose so much this generation, next generation yes, but not this generation. Remember its not just gamers buying Wii's, its non-gamers too. Nintendo have brought a whole new flock of gamers into the fold, in years to come though, they will be potential M$ or Sony customers. I don't know if you have noticed how Nintendo have 'Appled' up the Wii, its gone from being a console to a lifestyle accessory. Infact the whole Nintendo brand has been made over in this way.

Being outsold and not selling at all are two very different things. Being outsold is not bad, not selling is.

Being out sold in the console business IS bad! After selling games, selling consoles is the highest priority. You can't sell consoles if you haven't got any games, and you can't sell games if you haven't got any consoles - both go hand in hand. 👍

 

[Jay]

No one will spend $700 on a machine that can't play Crysis.

I max all Crysis settings out and GT5P visually still impresses me more (on a 1080P TV)

 

[FoolKiller]

That is a very reasonable argument, but what you are suggesting is a result of circumstances, as opposed to an actual market strategy.

I do agree that circumstances played a role, but at the same time it is impossible to tell if due to the cost of the PS3 and the games that have been ported between the PSP and PS2 if it would have still worked out for them. so, I am not willing to completely write it off as circumstances, just because I can't prove it without a doubt. And whether it is just circumstances or not, it does still point that Sony isn't in trouble because it is pulling in a lot of profit still.

I know I have personally purchased a PS2 game that was a port of a PSP game. Twisted Metal: Head On. Endless fun that is.

And then looking at sports titles; EA has dumbed down the Wii versions to the point of even adding a subtitle to them while the PS2 versions are just missing stuff like online features and HD graphics.

I think the issue is that everyone, particularly in gaming media, wants to just compare current gen when the bottom line is so much more. Similarly many people ignore that the 360 is in the same Microsoft division as the Zune, which hasn't done so well compared to its competitors.

The shock surprise of this generation has been the Wii, its a fantastic piece of kit for the casual gamer. It might not be the best system techincally, but Nintendo have proved that you dont need CBEs, or billions of polygons per second to make compelling games.

Fixed that to reflect my personal opinion. While they have a lot of games with very broad appeal, I have a hard time seeing Cooking with Mama, My Sims and Carnival Games as compelling. Even my wife has seen games that she wanted to play and decided weren't worth more than the rental.

Oddly, I did buy Endless Ocean and seem to only be one of a very few who found that game compelling.

 

[magburner]

I do agree that circumstances played a role, but at the same time it is impossible to tell if due to the cost of the PS3 and the games that have been ported between the PSP and PS2 if it would have still worked out for them. so, I am not willing to completely write it off as circumstances, just because I can't prove it without a doubt. And whether it is just circumstances or not, it does still point that Sony isn't in trouble because it is pulling in a lot of profit still.

I will agree with you on that, but I never said financial trouble. I did explain earlier, that I meant in relation to the PS3, and not by how well the company itself was doing.

Earlier, I mentioned that (I believed), Sony had handled the PS3 incompetently, and I was immediately shot down. Then I found this article as I surfed the web... Oh my!

Below, I have pulled a couple of choice paragraphs from the article. it relates to early Cell production, and as the title says 'How Sony inadvertently helped a competitor and lost position in the videogame market.'

When the companies entered into their partnership in 2001, Sony, Toshiba and IBM committed themselves to spending $400 million over five years to design the Cell, not counting the millions of dollars it would take to build two production facilities for making the chip itself. IBM provided the bulk of the manpower, with the design team headquartered at its Austin, Texas, offices. Sony and Toshiba sent teams of engineers to Austin to live and work with their partners in an effort to have the Cell ready for the Playstation 3's target launch, Christmas 2005.

But a funny thing happened along the way: A new "partner" entered the picture. In late 2002, Microsoft approached IBM about making the chip for Microsoft's rival game console, the (as yet unnamed) Xbox 360. In 2003, IBM's Adam Bennett showed Microsoft specs for the still-in-development Cell core. Microsoft was interested and contracted with IBM for their own chip, to be built around the core that IBM was still building with Sony.

All three of the original partners had agreed that IBM would eventually sell the Cell to other clients. But it does not seem to have occurred to Sony that IBM would sell key parts of the Cell before it was complete and to Sony's primary videogame-console competitor. The result was that Sony's R&D money was spent creating a component for Microsoft to use against it.

The deal only got worse for Sony. Both designs were delivered on time to IBM's manufacturing division, but there was a problem with the first chip run. Microsoft had had the foresight to order backup manufacturing capacity from a third party. Sony did not and had to wait another six weeks to get their first chips. So Microsoft actually got the chip that Sony helped design before Sony did. In the end, Microsoft's Xbox 360 hit its target launch in November 2005, becoming its own success. Because of various delays, the Playstation 3 was pushed back a full year.

How Sony inadvertently helped a competitor and lost position in the videogame market. (full article)

 

[LouTs337]

I would have expected IBM to not backstab a partner like this, in the end its all about the money again $$$. Sony to was to ignorant clearly...

stil i think sony will win with playstation from xbox in the end as the price comes down a lot of people will buy it, xbox's prices are already down and further down will not boost that much anymore.

 

[FoolKiller]

I will agree with you on that, but I never said financial trouble. I did explain earlier, that I meant in relation to the PS3, and not by how well the company itself was doing.

Sorry, I was looking at the title of the thread when I posted that, not thinking about the PS3 only.

Still, the PS3 is a year behind the 360 and the 360 had to do a price cut to get the recent sales boost they have seen. I think it is too early to make a judgment call on the PS3's success as of right now. Most consoles hit their sales peaks at the end of their third year, due to price cuts and game library. I don't think that we can be definitive until that point in the PS3's cycle. Costs should break even at the end of this fiscal year (April for Sony) and I think that is when we will see them take on a more aggressive pricing and advertising policy, similar to how the 360 did this past year when their costs broke even.

Comparing the 360 to the PS3 date-to-date instead of cycle-to-cycle creates a doom and gloom picture for the PS3, but isn't accurate. People did the same thing to the PS2 and Xbox. In all reality the Xbox would have been a much bigger success story had Microsoft not been quick to jump generations and abandon the Xbox completely. They came out a year later and then started the 360 a year earlier than everyone else. They effectively cut two years off the life of the Xbox in comparison to the PS2. And that doesn't take into account that Sony supports their consoles for 10 years.

If Microsoft handles the next generation the same as they did this one I think that in the end the PS3 will sell more consoles.

Then a lot of the doom and gloom stories I have seen all refer to the same source; Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter. Pachter is an idiot, in my opinion. He has predicted the PS3 would overtake the 360 this year, he said Nintendo would do a price cut , and from what I can tell the only thing he has gotten correct this generation was predicting the 360 price cut after it had been rumored for months. He was also one of the people to say that the video games industry was recession proof.

Earlier, I mentioned that (I believed), Sony had handled the PS3 incompetently, and I was immediately shot down. Then I found this article as I surfed the web... Oh my!

Below, I have pulled a couple of choice paragraphs from the article. it relates to early Cell production, and as the title says 'How Sony inadvertently helped a competitor and lost position in the videogame market.'

Wait, if I read this correctly the 360 is using a Cell chip? Or is it just the core? In all honesty if Microsoft had just had a standard processor put in it wouldn't have changed anything.

And I don't think Sony could have done anything about this. IBM wouldn't have signed on to an exclusivity deal. They struggle too much on their own to limit potential profit that way.

stil i think sony will win with playstation from xbox in the end as the price comes down a lot of people will buy it, xbox's prices are already down and further down will not boost that much anymore.

I think there is a lot to this. As I mentioned above the two systems are in different points of their retail cycles. This is not an apples to apples comparison.


Besides, Microsoft will do something to shoot themselves in the foot. It is just how they work, as most recently noted by nearly all 30GB Zunes's crashing on December 31st.
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/12...b-versions-microsoft-mp3-player-all-fail-once

 

[Moglet]

No Joey, you took one comment away from the context it was written in. Once again I was suggesting that the PS3 and XB360 are in a comparable situation when you take their release dates into consideration.

What? That's exactly what Joey said...

I accept that you are not taking sides, but with that in mind I can't understand why you would take one comment about the XB360 and none about the PS3.

Once again; what? Joey's post was simply stating that the two consoles are on a level playing field after the same amount of time.

 

[nick09]

Besides, Microsoft will do something to shoot themselves in the foot. It is just how they work, as most recently noted by nearly all 30GB Zunes's crashing on December 31st.
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/12...b-versions-microsoft-mp3-player-all-fail-once

My brother has a 30GB Zune so I will see how he reacts. I use my ipod as my alarm and I'd be very mad to not be able to wake up 6 in the morning(What? I get more time on my hands this way) if it happened to me.

We are just repeating history here. The PS2 is a good example it beaten the Xbox to the gamers and now the 360 has beaten the PS3 to the gaming scene.

 

[Picc84]

The only thing that has really been bothering me about Sony's System updates, is still no in game chat with other players through the XMB like the 360. (Different games) You still need to exit your current game to have a voice chat!

 

[FoolKiller]

My brother has a 30GB Zune so I will see how he reacts. I use my ipod as my alarm and I'd be very mad to not be able to wake up 6 in the morning(What? I get more time on my hands this way) if it happened to me.

Read teh comments on that link. It looks like someone forgot to calculate the leap year in the most recent firmware and so when it reached the 366th day of teh year it freaked, but if you didn't touch it until the 1st, or didn't update the firmware, it should be fine.