Sorry, but this car hacking / glitching is a gimmick.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Furinkazen
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mr_serious
which is not being violated here.
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You must have gone to a different law school that PD's lawyers then because this is the exact definition of copyright infringement.
 
Johnnypenso
You must have gone to a different law school that PD's lawyers then because this is the exact definition of copyright infringement.
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No I didn't and no it isn't. Want to show me where PD's lawyers are claiming modfying a game save is illegal?

I'd like to point out, I'm not for or against this practice. I just don't like people erroneously using the law to scare people out of enjoying themselves.
 
I see it this way: let the people, that find it fun, do it... - They'll keep doing it, until PD patches the cars, anyway. Plus, I honestly don't think PD will do anything about it.
 
Johnnypenso
You must have gone to a different law school that PD's lawyers then because this is the exact definition of copyright infringement.
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Do you really think legal action will be taken? More than just banned accounts? Which is all i'm expecting at most and am willing to deal with if that happends, I chose to get the hybrids cars if I get banned so be it, no complaining from me, But legal action?

Surely that would be the first time a game company has ever taken legal action over people modifying a game. Correct me if i'm wrong i've just never read of anything like that happening.

There might be some legal action taken against certain people as I have seen a 3287hp Civic for sale on Ebay for £10 (:lol:)
 
Furinkazen
Show me then where they say it is legal?
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This circular request is getting really stupid. You realise the law works by forbidding a subset of all possible actions, not the other way round right?

I say there is no law being broken. I cannot point you to an edict that says it is illegal. -edit I meant legal here

You claim there is but cannot tell me which one? - and no, it is not copyright infringment.
 
I have a proper replica tuned hybrid drifter.

An Toyota 86GT 587hp, tuned by my friend Slender_Man.

Wanna try?

Cheers Outeke
 
Seriously, where would one wear bell bottoms? Those things look silly! What honorable purpose could they have? I've seen blue ones, and green ones and yellow ones and pink ones and orange ones.

If you are going to wear pants, why wear those? I do not see how you need all that room at your ankles.

Bell bottom pants are a fad. I know that many of you wear them, but they are not in fashion. You may have an entire community of people who groove and jive, but I think that will get boring for you. Those bell bottoms are strange looking, and converting your skinny jeans into bell bottoms may cause you physical harm as tripping hazards and with pure embarrassment.

Mr. Travolta may set his Sweat-hogs after me now.

Joy
 
I would show you the full copyright screen that displays when you start GT5 but I can't connect on due to server issues.

I am no lawyer, but it's PD's decision and choice, they provide the servers, and there decision. I mentioned nothing about prosecution in any time either.
 
Decrypting an encrypted save game files not intended to be accessible or modifiable by users and altering a part of the software ( save files used to run the game ) without written consent/permission from PD ( as Publisher ). I think this already can be considered as breaking the terms of use / license agreement agreed by user when signing up for PSN, playing GT5 for 1st time ( these are legally binding, in which the user can be held responsible for any misuse or illegal actions )

I think the worst Sony would do is banning the user from online access, I won't get near to hacked car for sure, my moral conscience and integrity won't allow me to do it ;)
 
mr_serious
On what legal basis would someone who has modified their game save or borrowed a modified car be prosecuted?
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There is a special wing in most prisons for game save modifiers.

They don't put them in with the hardened criminals for obvious reasons.

Johnnypenso
These Hybrids affect the integrity of the game and the series as a whole. Anyone not concerned about that is not very intelligent. If you could see past your own nose, you would see the potential ramifications of this in a month, a year or more down the road.
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I would be pretty sure that PD are compiling a new eboot at the moment,
The eboot is reviewed by Sony, to make sure it wont break systems/expose vulnerabilities etc and then put on their ww.np.dl.playstation.net server for download.

That process can take weeks.

But you can be sure they will fix this, its a case of checking a car's parameters against what is possible in-game.
 
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Johnnypenso
Who's to say the PP values won't get hacked as well? What happens to the TT's at that point? GT Academy? Online racing? They're done, period.
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I am pretty certain that this will not happen the way that hybrids and modded power cars are created now (modifying save data). To change the calculated performance points you have to access game data (which requires a jailbroken PS3), decrypt the game data, find out where the PP formula is and how it's calculated, modify the formula so it would give you a slightly lower or negative value (to make it seriously exploitable), which would be quite a lot of effort just to get your name at the top of some leaderboard (and get banned when caught).
Or you can create a ridiculous car to glitch the PP system, like that X2010 does, but again this is nearly impossible because unless the car is that extremely modified it won't happen. I've put similar power numbers into streetcars and it will show PP values of more than 900, without the extreme downforce and minimal weight of the X1 it will not fall down to negative numbers.

The first method is way too much effort to get a minimal 20PP (or something similar so nobody can prove you're cheating) advantage, the other one has to be done to such an ridiculous extent that it will be obvious.

I'd have no trouble with PD allowing engine swaps and stuff along those lines, I don't care if cars get 2000 hp, so long as it's within the parameters of the game, not in an illegal, hacked, hybrid car. I'll trust PD to set it up, not Harry Hacker.
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That's what's happening though.

GD6WRB
i have an even better idea!! just turn off the game and go outside!
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There's existing something else than Gran Turismo? :scared:
 
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Johnnypenso
These Hybrids affect the integrity of the game and the series as a whole. Anyone not concerned about that is not very intelligent. If you could see past your own nose, you would see the potential ramifications of this in a month, a year or more down the road.
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Johnnypenso
I think lots of us are purist's Furi, more than you think, but to speak out on this issue you just get labelled a "purist" or an "elitist" and shouted down.
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These two attitudes are related, I suspect.

Johnnypenso
Who's to say the PP values won't get hacked as well?
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Because we already know that the PP values are set by the game rather than the game save, and hacking the game itself and getting it to work on an unmodded PS3 and getting it to work with PD's servers is an order of magnitude different from anything that has happened in any GT game to date, despite how much has splayed open of GT2, GT3 and GT4. The closest anyone has ever gotten to doing anything remotely like that were those hacks a few years ago that put Valencia in GT4.

Furinkazen
Show me then where they say it is legal?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning


Johnnypenso
You must have gone to a different law school that PD's lawyers then because this is the exact definition of copyright infringement.
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No... no it's not. PD has a copyright on the game programming and the game content. If you were hacking the game software to get the hybrids or change PP values manually then it might be copyright infringement (but probably not even then, since that's exactly what cheat devices like the Gameshark and Action Replay did and Nintendo lost that court case in 1992), but these hybrids are being made just with hex editing a save file. The most it does is violate Sony's ToS.
 
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Johnnypenso
These Hybrids affect the integrity of the game and the series as a whole.
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Subjective.

Anyone not concerned about that is not very intelligent.
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Subjective and rude.

If you could see past your own nose, you would see the potential ramifications of this in a month, a year or more down the road.
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Subjective, rude and obnoxious.


Kaz has already said that "GT6 is just new apps that run on the GT5 system". Does this mean that hacked cars will be in GT6 from day 1?
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Does this mean it's going to stop people doing it?




I think lots of us are purist's Furi, more than you think, but to speak out on this issue you just get labelled a "purist" or an "elitist" and shouted down.
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Not really, I'm sure being called an elitist is just as much to do with your elitist attitude as it is your personal jabs. But by all mean continue talking down if you have nothing of substance to submit.

This whole 'those vs us' attitude. As if everyone who doesn't scream blue murder at the thought of other people using hybrids in private lobbies is some sort of antichrist.
 
The hacking is UNAUTHORIZED updates being applied to the game. PD have not given permission for this to happen. The game is given to us to use under terms and conditions. To be honest I don't understand some people trying to give us a quiz on the legal system when they can't cite any sources or information to back up their claims.
 
Furinkazen
The hacking is UNAUTHORIZED updates being applied to the game. PD have not given permission for this to happen. The game is given to us to use under terms and conditions. To be honest I don't understand some people trying to give us a quiz on the legal system when they can't cite any sources or information to back up their claims.
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Terms of Service agreements are completely detached from (and in fact in some cases even contradictory to) legal standards.
 
Toronado
Terms of Service agreements are completely detached from (and in fact in some cases even contradictory to) legal standards.
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And the actual online service is provided by Sony / PSN.
 
Furinkazen
I would show you the full copyright screen that displays when you start GT5 but I can't connect on due to server issues.

I am no lawyer, but it's PD's decision and choice, they provide the servers, and there decision. I mentioned nothing about prosecution in any time either.
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Furinkazen
And legally quite dangerous for them.
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@Ridox2JZGTE - i agree it breaks the T&C's which is a legaly binding contract between parties (as long as the T&C's are not considered unreasonable under law)

But copyright would cover the format of the save data, not the actual data contained within.

Breaking the T&C's is simply a civil matter & means they no longer have to provide the service under the contract and if your actions cause damages or are illegal (under another law such as fraud or theft) you could be pursued or prosecuted.

The T&C's are intended to prevent piracy.
 
Furinkazen
And the actual online service is provided by Sony / PSN.
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No one is saying otherwise. PD and Sony are very much in perfect standing to ban you from PSN for even having someone in your friend's list that has a hybrid car. That's about as much that they can do, though, unless you start actively hacking the game code itself (and even then it might be legal depending on what you do with it after you've done so).
 
Outeke
I have a proper replica tuned hybrid drifter.

An Toyota 86GT 587hp, tuned by my friend Slender_Man.

Wanna try?

Cheers Outeke
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Yes please 👍 shoot a FR to Chuck1551 and I'll add you later.

PS how do I borrow-glitch if I want to keep it?
 
Furinkazen
The hacking is UNAUTHORIZED updates being applied to the game. PD have not given permission for this to happen. The game is given to us to use under terms and conditions. To be honest I don't understand some people trying to give us a quiz on the legal system when they can't cite any sources or information to back up their claims.
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How do I turn myself in? I used a soccer ball as a basketball, a baseball as a paperweight, my shirt as a napkin and changed the structure of my water pipes as to allow for more space under my sink. I am guilty.:nervous:

I never received specific permission for any of that from anyone.
 
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Bwootzabaa
How do I turn myself in? I used a soccer ball as a basketball, a baseball as a paperweight, my shirt as a napkin and changed the structure of my water pipes as to allow for more space under my sink. I am guilty.:nervous:

I never received specific permission for any of that form anyone.
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Now why couldn't I have said it like that in the first place, awesome :)

oh & hello Toronado :cheers:
 
Looks like some of us never read the whole license agreement or terms of use when clicking agree at 1st use of a software or online service ...:sick:
 
PlayStation TOS and User agreement; §2:7
"You must not modify or attempt to modify the online client, disc, save file, server, client-server communication, or other part of any Service or cause disruption to any account, system, hardware, software, or network connected to Sony Entertainment Network for any reason, including to gain an unfair advantage in any Service."
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(http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_tosua_en.html)

I couldn't find the GT5 Terms as an online "file", but I'm sure it says, close to, the same as above 👍.
 
Furinkazen
The hacking is UNAUTHORIZED updates being applied to the game. PD have not given permission for this to happen. The game is given to us to use under terms and conditions. To be honest I don't understand some people trying to give us a quiz on the legal system when they can't cite any sources or information to back up their claims.
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The fact that it IS possible to change these cars, the way they are changed... Who am I to say that PD is against it?

Frankly, I think it's really awesome to be able to drift cars really well, that had not enough HP before. If you can't see that... Fine.

It's like Alcohol. When drinking with consideration, who cares?
 
Bwootzabaa
How do I turn myself in?
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I've just been down to my police station.

I walked in triumphantly and exclaimed
"I'm here to turn myself in, I am no longer fit to rub shoulders with other folk"

I was immediately pounced on by about 7 large men.
They beat me for about 12 hours. Stopping only to get their breath and spray mace directly into my open eyes.

They kept saying things like "You make me sick" and
"Was it worth it... punk?"

At the end of the 12 hours one rookie cop said,
"Hang on a minute.. what did you turn yourself in for?"

I stood up, battered from head to toe and spat in his face.
"I borrow glitched my friends 3000Bhp Civic"

They proceeded to beat me for another 6 hours,
some of the police even did overtime in order to beat me.

Bail was posted at €50,000 euro. I'm looking at 25 to life.
 

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