Sound Improvements for GT5?

[CoolColJ]

Can you hear the difference?

C12s vs Zonda F - different engine in real life too...
C12s sounds like regular V12, the F sounds like F1

plus a PS2 has hardly any memory and uses probably 8 bit short looped sounds for the engine to save memory

 

[Famine]

I'm able to say if it's R4 or V8 in the first second, but it doesn't mean that sounds are good.

Err... you missed a point.

She - someone who's never played GT5P - was able to tell not only the engine type but which manufacturer made it, often identifying the actual car it was in. In the living room downstairs while we were in the computer room upstairs.

She has no idea what cars are in GT5P either, so it wasn't a case of knowing what the possibilities were.


Call me odd, but I'd say that if someone can tell by ear alone than I'm driving a Chevy V8 rather than a Ford V8 (or indeed a Ferrari V8), then the sounds are good. That's not to say there's no room for improvement - there is, since I'm not exactly using a basic sound setup.

 

[craste]

C12s vs Zonda F - different engine in real life too...
C12s sounds like regular V12, the F sounds like F1

plus a PS2 has hardly any memory and uses probably 8 bit short looped sounds for the engine to save memory

I've just listened to these sounds and the Gt sounds are like a whooshing vacuum/dishwasher and the real clip was something which made your hair stand on end and makes the car sound like an animal.

The sound in a game is so important i do hope GT5 has quality recordings.

For reference i play GT5 through these bad boys.

http://www.dv247.com/invt/30743/
http://www.dv247.com/invt/30742/

 

[CoolColJ]

I've just listened to these sounds and the Gt sounds are like a whooshing vacuum/dishwasher and the real clip was something which made your hair stand on end and makes the car sound like an animal.

The sound in a game is so important i do hope GT5 has quality recordings.

For reference i play GT5 through these bad boys.

http://www.dv247.com/invt/30743/
http://www.dv247.com/invt/30742/

GT4 used short looping sounds that are pitch shifted to create the doppler effect. What do you expect with a PS2? It doesn't have much memory, and audio is memory hungry

ideally you would use a dedicated audio DSP to create the doppler effect
I just don't think recording static sounds with doppler in place is possible in games, so games will never be able to recreate reality for a long while yet

 

[RedBaron]

Ideal would be engine synthetiser, which would create sound live upon parameters like count of cyllinders, intake manifold length and diameter, exhaust length, shape and diameter, combustion sequence, valve shape etc. But there's much room for improvement even with old sample in loop layering method. It should be mainly perfectly recorded samples in the right rpm's to create distinctive sound. And under load, of course. If they won't create the right sample in 1200 rpm and let the same ugly sounding 3000 rpm sample slowed down there, the american V8 will never have the correct burble.

But we have no clue what will be the sound in the final GT5. And I am convinced it will be the same as in Prologue, which is as I've already said three classes under graphics level.

 

[VinylHogger]

The only problem I have with the sound is the tire squealing. Granted, I have only been racing this for a week, but man does that get annoying. I am still on Class C, so I have mostly been hearing four bangers around the track (Focus RS mostly).

Excellent point! I can't beileive no one has mentioned this previously. Fair enough there is significant room for improvement with the engine sounds but the tire screeching is just horrific, ear assualting amatuerish, unrealistic nonsense.

Can anyone tell me that the tire screech is in any way realistic? At least the engine noise is believable but the tires? Come on!

I kid you not, the tire sounds are exactly the same as in GT1 and have not changed since the original PS1 version. This is now 2009 and GT5p tire sounds are no different.

I pray the gull GT5 release will changet this.

Check his video of GT for PS1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEMIS5uoWyE&feature=related

 

[Bogie 19th]

I was at Road America last weekend. During a 1 hour break between races, you could take your personal vehicle out on the road course ($75). The only car that squealed around the corner in these production cars was a Mini. Everything from a Hyundai Santa Fe to Ford Contours, to Vettes and more, never had their tires squeal around corners like it does in this game.

 

[Famine]

They weren't trying hard enough then. I've been to more than one trackday and cars less potent than a Mini were chirping up on every turn.

 

[dakster]

I only just started playing Gt5 prologue, running it through a new onkyo and diamond 9.1's and to me the cars sound amazing. The tyre noises can be a bit reptitive though.

I can see how listening to the you tube videos above, seasoned GT or sim racers aren't quite happy though.

 

[sejtur]

I was at Road America last weekend. During a 1 hour break between races, you could take your personal vehicle out on the road course ($75). The only car that squealed around the corner in these production cars was a Mini. Everything from a Hyundai Santa Fe to Ford Contours, to Vettes and more, never had their tires squeal around corners like it does in this game.

You should listen to that Covette video in the nurburgring thread... squealing in almost every corner. It's just the way you drive. If your tyres have friction with the road, and when the g-forces kick in, you definately hear the tyres I think.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

And don't forget, that the engine noise was used for many a more cars later on in the series.

That's been a huge failing of the GT series. Too many race, exotic and tuned car's use the same half dozen, if that, sound's.

GT5P's sound's are much improved, but there's still some way to go compared to NFS Shift and Forza 3.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

GT4 used short looping sounds that are pitch shifted to create the doppler effect. What do you expect with a PS2? It doesn't have much memory, and audio is memory hungry

ideally you would use a dedicated audio DSP to create the doppler effect
I just don't think recording static sounds with doppler in place is possible in games, so games will never be able to recreate reality for a long while yet

Watch a few video's of Enthusia Racing's Mazda 787B and compare it to the GT4 version, the difference is night and day.

PD need to realise realistic engine sound's come second only to physic's.

When I won the Sauber Mercede's C9 in GT4 I was so dissapointed with the engine sound, they used that generic crap which sound's like a vacume cleaner from the Zonda clip shown above, when they could have used the Ford GT40 or Panoz Esperante GTR sound if an original recording was not available. At least it would have had a V8 rumble similar to the real car.

 

[Grand Prix]

And don't forget, that the engine noise was used for many a more cars later on in the series.

For cars like the GT-One, yes that is probably the case. I can assure you though that this Vector M12 does not sound like anything else in the game. Every V12 in GT2 sounds a bit different, until you put a racing exhaust modification on the car! In which case, the sounds have to be synthesized, because how on Earth are they gonna know what the car would sound like with straight pipes if it doesn't have them? So they apply the Gt-One's buzzing bee sound, because it sounds cool to some people.

My suggestion? Leave the exhaust modications off in the game. 30-40 hp isn't going to help you much anyway.

i think its a very bad setting for making professional recordings and to use professional equiment does not mean that is sounds good. there are many other things you have to care about (position of the microphone, which microphone to use .....and so on). in this video it seems like they didnt think a lot about it.

I agree. I also wonder if they used the full dynamic range of the microphone, because some of the cars are really quiet in-game.

well there you have it. I could be wrong, but that video might explain why the sounds are so poor in Gran Turismo. We're listening to Dynos

Possibly. However, the reason why game developers try to record cars on a dyno is because an engine sounds completely different when under load. When you drive a car in real life, that is what you hear, the engine when under load. The question is, did they set the high-pass filter on the sound mixer correctly the minimize the sound of the dyno? If they are incompetent enough to not be able to do that, that might explain why most of the cars we see in these recording sessions, are being recorded while in neutral. Which is generally frowned upon for realism's sake.


Many years have have passed since then, recording equipment has gotten cheaper and so have excellent sound recording professionals. We know they use different sound recordists now because we've seen them in magazine pictures and PD's little documentaries. Do they still use the same audio editors? That, I do not know. There is hope yet that the sounds have improved from GT5P, which had some awesome sounding cars in it, IMO.

 

[JDMKING13]

Just hooked back up my surround sound and i must say with the settings on small theater i can hear so much sounds! Im running a reciver with 5.1 and what i notice during gameplay in the interior view, was how different the sound was with the 5.1. Ex When hitting the Zebras in a RHD car with the right tire Its is real loud on my right side so when i hit the tire on the left side of the car it was not as loud this was buggin me, im thinking somethings wrong with my speakers. Then i thought to my self O snap i get it, Its because im in a rhd car and im closer to my right tire so it would be louder then hitting the zebras with my left tire. I just moved into my apparment so i didnt hook up my surround sound til now. i also forgot to switch it to small theater from living. Small theater and living room are like day and night to me at least. living room settings stuffs all the sounds into my speakers while small theater distributes different sounds through out the speakers making the game sound more crisp and clear.

Another thing i notice whats helps the sounds In GT5P is a SUB. I was just driving the Audi R8 and it sounds so differnt because the sub brings out that deepness in the R8 im not saying its 100% correct but it sounds way better than my damn tv. With my TV it kinda sounded like a high power blender. it lacks that deepness with out the sub. Anybody else with a surround sound notice any differences?

 

[sejtur]

Ohh man, that Zonda vid at the nordschleife gives me goosebumps!

 

[Bogie 19th]

You should listen to that Covette video in the nurburgring thread... squealing in almost every corner. It's just the way you drive. If your tyres have friction with the road, and when the g-forces kick in, you definately hear the tyres I think.

Out of about 400 cars on the track last week (touring and race), I think I heard 2 that had their tires squealing. Even the drifting Mustang didn't squeal.

I personally think it's overkill.

 

[Duphman]

Another thing i notice whats helps the sounds In GT5P is a SUB. I was just driving the Audi R8 and it sounds so differnt because the sub brings out that deepness in the R8 im not saying its 100% correct but it sounds way better than my damn tv. With my TV it kinda sounded like a high power blender. it lacks that deepness with out the sub. Anybody else with a surround sound notice any differences?

I agree with this. Complaining about the sounds while using the standard speakers on your little TV is the equivalent of the guys that bought Dead Rising and complained about not being able to read the text when it was marketed as a high definition game.

 

[VinylHogger]

I agree with this. Complaining about the sounds while using the standard speakers on your little TV is the equivalent of the guys that bought Dead Rising and complained about not being able to read the text when it was marketed as a high definition game.

Don't need a mega sound system to realise that the tire squealing noise is pathetic and completely unrealistic

 

[Slurm]

I can hear the pagani on youtube on my laptop. It sounds very good.

 

[Slurm]

Anyway, there's no use complaining about all this. As far as I know, we have nothing to suggest that the sounds on GT5 will be handled much different to those of Prologue, in which the road cars actually sound not bad at all:

Listen to the echoes, directional noise emission and that raspy rawness that GT has lacked up until now. Judging by what others have said, it seems that perhaps earlier versions of GT were just using a very small bitrate, which they have now upped with the PS3.

In fact I'd say it's pretty good. In fact, I would say that if the race cars of GT5 follow on where the road cars of prologue left off, we will be in for quite a treat. Fingers firmly crossed.

And also, thanks Famine for the embedding tip 👍

 

[Conquerer]

I kid you not, the tire sounds are exactly the same as in GT1 and have not changed since the original PS1 version. This is now 2009 and GT5p tire sounds are no different.

I pray the gull GT5 release will changet this.

Check his video of GT for PS1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEMIS5uoWyE&feature=related

Many people say this, but no, it's not true at all. GT5P's tire screeching is much different than GT1. It still needs much improvement but it's competely different. It was already different in GT4 and it may have been a new sound in GT3 as well, but I can't remember fully. GT5P does not use PSX tire screech sounds though.

 

[JDMKING13]

The only game a can compare with GT5P is Forza2 and overall GT5P sounds better IMO. Damn i know i keep asking this question but what game has the best sound i was looking in my post and i couldnt find what you guys were saying thanks

 

[s15specr]

What about the crash sound? 👎, it sounds like your crashing into a drum

 

[JDMKING13]

What about the crash sound? 👎, it sounds like your crashing into a drum

Yea i feel you thats why i said overall and not just one department. i can only compare on what both games share.

 

[ST-2]

What about the crash sound? 👎, it sounds like your crashing into a drum

I dunno, Forza's sounds are quite good. They have the V8 rumble done pretty much to perfection imo.

 

[Terronium-12]

I'm curious, rather I wonder why PD hasn't adopted the same method of sound reproduction that SimBin uses.

I've never looked into their method, but a great deal (if not all, I've only heard 82% more or less including mods) of the included vehicles sound almost exactly as they do in RL. This isn't a "I hate this or that" response, nor is it a "Computers are better" reply, it's simply a question of sorts. If anyone knows what methods SimBin uses (GTR2 in particular) I'd appreciate the insight.

As for sound reproduction in terms of Prologue, it's definitely getting better. The GT-R sounds exactly as it does (at least from everything I've heard up until now as far as real video reviews go), but there's still a little work to be done. This is why I think games that are focused to one particular niche audience should allow "us" to modify content, whether it be sound files or otherwise, up until a certain extent of course.

 

[s15specr]

Yea i feel you thats why i said overall and not just one department. i can only compare on what both games share.

Yeah your right, but maybe since were gettin damage that will change , it would be pretty cool to hear the windows shatter after a big impact

 

[JDMKING13]

Yeah your right, but maybe since were gettin damage that will change , it would be pretty cool to hear the windows shatter after a big impact

Exactly. But the big difference to me is the way the cars sound during replays GT5p sound sick as hell with surround sound and that sub. When i hear that DB9 just growling it makes my hairs stand up the sub makes a crazy difference. Also with the exhuast the raspyness is sick and the echos!! damn i cant wait to get my new reciver with HDMI 7.1 cant wait to hear that

 

[s15specr]

Exactly. But the big difference to me is the way the cars sound during replays GT5p sound sick as hell with surround sound and that sub. When i hear that DB9 just growling it makes my hairs stand up the sub makes a crazy difference. Also with the exhuast the raspyness is sick and the echos!! damn i cant wait to get my new reciver with HDMI 7.1 cant wait to hear that

yeah man 👍, a love the sound of the mines skyline gt-r in replys , also, I was playin gt5p today and I was along side a amuse S2000 turbo before a corner and the sound of it changing down gears omg

 

[JDMKING13]

yeah man 👍, a love the sound of the mines skyline gt-r in replys , also, I was playin gt5p today and I was along side a amuse S2000 turbo before a corner and the sound of it changing down gears omg

No doubt 👍 another thing i notice with the 5.1 is when driving next to cars in the interior view the AI cars dont drown My car sounds out like with my reg TV sepeakers and in small theater set up. That Mines GTR Sounds BTW