Sprint Nation

[JohnBM01]

This is only my second thread related to sprint cars. My last thread was about if sprint car racers are the most enduring racers in the world. The reason why I asked that question was because almost every week, you see sprint car racers going at it each week. You hear about non-winged and winged sprint cars going at it on small ovals and dirt tracks. In the interest of coming up with a variety of threads for a variety of different fans, I would like to open this thread to talk about all kinds of sprint car racing. Now it's called "Sprint Nation" since this is mostly focused around American sprint car racing, but you're free to talk about all sorts of different sprint cars. I hear about Australians into this kind of racing. So this is a general thread for you all to talk about ANYTHING related to sprint cars. It can be World of Outlaws, the SCRA, it can be about the controversial circuit-spec sprint cars by the ISC, or whatever.

I usually think sprint cars can be quite fun despite the fact I'm not an oval racing guy. I once did a forums in the GT4 forums about open-wheel race cars. A controversial comment I made was that forum posters would comment about what certain open-wheel race cars they wanted to see. The controversial comment I made was (indirect quote) "...almost any open-wheel race car except sprint cars. They don't count as real race cars." So I was treated to some counterattack comments for making that comment. I will say that some of the on-board views of sprint cars (winged or non-winged) feature some cars with awesome engine roars. One of the joys is to see the cars get sideways in the turns. I would imagine these cars are pretty light. They also have a front-engine setup which should help them get into the turns better without having to worry too much about spinning out like in a mid/RWD Indy or Champ car. The biggest hook for me is just watching these drivers wrestle these machines into the corners while making sure their cars don't get OWNED.

There's still something about Sprint Cars at the end of the day. I wouldn't race one, I wouldn't watch one of these races, but it does seem pretty fun to see these cars in action. Post on. It's your turn.

 

[kart racer]

Lets see,throwing a car that has 800+ hp and is under1500 lbs sideways then lifting the front tires when you get on the gas? This has got to be a blast.Just look at it as a rally car gone wild on roids.Yes,it is on a oval, but you really need the art of a ralley driver to control this beast.Sign me up for a ride and when it is done,I'll be the one with the mile wide grin. 👍

 

[Jim Prower]

I'd like to see some in GT5, if for no other reason to see thow those 800hp short-wheelbase, huge-winged monsters handle on asphalt. yeah, I know the Silver Crown series runs on asphalt, but I'd like to run an Outlaw.

say, there's something else, what about the unwinged Crown cars vs the winged Outlaw sprinters?

 

[Layla's Keeper]

Okay, Jim, here's the deal - A "Silver Crown" car is not a sprint car. They look similar, but they're actually two very distinct racing cars.

A sprint car has no starter, no transmission, a 410ci V8 producing around 700-800hp, and an 84in wheelbase. They use a small 28gallon fuel tank, and (by USAC rules) weigh a minimum of 1400lbs.

Silver Crown cars use a two speed gearbox and Indy-style handheld starter, have a minimum 96in wheelbase, a 355ci engine, 1500lb minimum weight, and use a 75gallon fuel tank.

The cars do have similar construction and appearance (until recently when USAC went and screwed the pooch with the "aero/safety package") but drive and handle fundamentally different. Sprints are much more violent than Silver Crown cars, requiring delicate throttle control to keep from getting out of hand. Silver Crown cars, though, are more about tire management, braking, and expert wheelsmanship.

As such, to be able to drive and win in both requires a particularly skilled driver.

Here you can see a picture of a USAC wingless sprint, and then see a USAC Silver Crown car (predating the "new" Silver Crown car, what's now referred to by its nickname, a "Big Car"). Pic to Pic, it ought to be easy to spot the difference.

Sprinter

Silver Crown

 

[Jim Prower]

Aha, thanks for clearing that up.

((gee, they are different side-by-side...))

 

[JohnBM01]

This thread would be nothing without input from Layla's Keeper. Figured he'd have sort of a field day with this deal. Does it make a difference if a sprint car has wings or not? Do winged sprints perform better in the wind and in the turns, or do non-winged cars?

 

[Layla's Keeper]

A winged sprint is undeniably faster in the turns than a non-winged sprint. The combination of the downforce AND the braking/cornering force of those huge canted endplates means that a winged sprint can hold between 30 to 50mph more in the turns than a non-winged sprint.

This is especially critical on dirt. On dirt, non-winged and winged sprints run entirely different lines with different corner entries to maximize speeds. A winged sprint gets "backed in" (basically, the driver performs a variation on a Scandinavian flick that loads the left rear suspension, the weight transfer is performed by a device called the Jacobs Ladder that takes the place of a panhard bar) and rides the cushion.

The cushion is the mound of kicked up dirt on the edge of the track that's the result of many laps run. It forms a little ridge that's perfect for a right rear tire to follow. What a fast winged sprint driver will do is rush the corner flat out, flick the wheel hard right to transfer weight to the right rear, which through the Jacobs Ladder is transferred to the left rear (yes folks, a sprint car's rear suspension is engineered to perform a feint drift instantly, and the hardware to do this has been on the cars since the late 40's!).

The car begins to slide at max speed and the drive guides the car out to the cushion, where he can use the least countersteer and hold the most momentum. The wing's endplates are offset to act as a sort of windbrake to keep the car on line and sideways, while the huge surface area of the wing keeps the car planted.

It's through all of this that World of Outlaws sprints are able to have lap AVERAGE speeds in excess of 130mph on 1/2mile dirt tracks.

In a wingless car, the entry cannot be so severe, so the Jacobs Ladder enters less into the equation and the cushion is a difficult place. The drivers hold more to the bottom of the track and use the throttle more gingerly to get bite off the corners. The suspensions are engineered instead to put the weight on the right rear for maximum forward traction, instead of the left rear for maximum lateral grip. This leads to wicked wheelstands on wingless cars like this....

while a winged sprint wheelstand happens later on the straight and looks like this.....

On asphalt, the cars are actually a bit more even, with a slight edge to winged sprints. A non-winged asphalt sprint has much less drag, so it's faster down the straights, but the winged car corners a ton better, so it holds more speed around the turns. And since you tend to spend a lot more time turning on a short track than going straight, wings win.

Net result, sub 13second lap times on a paved 1/2mile for the Auto Value Super Sprints, the premier winged asphalt sprint sanction.

 

[JohnBM01]

So the "cushion" is more like marbles on an asphalt course, right?

 

[Schrodes]

The controversial comment I made was (indirect quote) "...almost any open-wheel race car except sprint cars. They don't count as real race cars." So I was treated to some counterattack comments for making that comment.

My counter attack was (indirect quote) "They are as real as any racing car you have ever seen".

So the "cushion" is more like marbles on an asphalt course, right?

Kind of, but the cushion is your friend and the marbles are your enemy.

 

[kart racer]

So the "cushion" is more like marbles on an asphalt course, right?

In a way,yes.All the loose dirt and mud gets thrown up there but instead of a slippery patch it acts more like a berm that will hold you in the groove and allow you to get on the power earlier. Sort of what you see in motorcross.Now if you jump the berm,you will loose control and spin out.

 

[YSSMAN]

Wow, I don't hear this sport come up too often outside of some of the racing magazines my Dad buys. Last time I was at a Sprint-Car race, I belive it was 1999 or 2000 for the Outlaw series at the old I-96 Speedway. What a wild night that was.

Granted, it isn't my favorite sport. I usually prefer the Saturday Night Special late-model and ASA racing on the local tracks, as stock car racing is in my blood. But, this is exciting stuff, and you can see some wild racing and crashes happen with it. But I suppose that can be expected on dirt tracks with that much power and that much speed.

 

[Jim Prower]

Don't they run Sprints up Pikes Peak? what sort of modifications would that require?

 

[JohnBM01]

Sprints on Pikes Peak (oval course)? Sure! Sprint cars up the Pikes Peak Hill Climb? I think they do run sprints up the course. I'll have to get back with you if I do find something interesting.

Meanwhile, here is a website about America's Hall of Famers in sprint car racing: { http://www.sprintcarhof.com/ }. This will be a good read for devoted fans.