SR ranking and in-game penalties

[Cssgareth]

Hey all, happy Friday!

I wanted to open a thread around how the in-game penalties are awarded. I've sunk a fair amount of time into GT Sport from the closed beta upwards, and since launch I've noticed that the in-game penalty systems seems a little, well, um, irritating.

First off, I think it's awesome that PD are trying to penalise drivers that are out there for nothing but mayhem and on the whole, I think it's working. However, there've been a few moments in races where I've felt a penalty has been awarded rather unfairly.

For example, whilst racing on the "Yamagiwa" variant of Kyoto, I've had a number of occasions where I've mucked up mid-corner, slowed down to correct, been smacked from behind and then given a penalty. Should this be the case? Has anyone else experienced moments where they've been awarded penalties like this?

Another example I've found (on the same track) is when I've driven through the second-to-last corner complex (the right to tight-left hander before the hairpin) and a car has spun out in front of me on the exit to the corner and is on the grass heading towards the track. With the line I've taken through the corner I'm going to come out towards the right-hand-side kerb, carrying a fair bit of speed, and although I've moved over to the left (to avoid the joining car) they've collided with my rear-right wheel and I've been awarded a penalty (again!).

It seems like the penalty system cannot detect this kind of level of error, so just awards you with a penalty as if you've chosen to be reckless. An error for PD to improve on, i'm sure, over time.

Not just me, though?

 

[powerlord]

getting hit from behind and i get the penalty is the worst, always when the other person has out break themselves.
ive also had it the other way where i have hit someone and passed them and they get a 2 second penalty i get green SR WTF !

 

[Cssgareth]

getting hit from behind and i get the penalty is the worst, always when the other person has out break themselves.
ive also had it the other way where i have hit someone and passed them and they get a 2 second penalty i get green SR WTF !

Good, not just me then! On the whole, it's a great system but they have a few quirks!

 

[zzz_pt]

For example, whilst racing on the "Yamagiwa" variant of Kyoto, I've had a number of occasions where I've mucked up mid-corner, slowed down to correct, been smacked from behind and then given a penalty. Should this be the case? Has anyone else experienced moments where they've been awarded penalties like this?

This seems reasonable to me. Otherwhise people would break check while on corners just to leave the guys who are on their tail behind and come out of the corner faster.

Avoid it by nailing the corner. If you don't, you get the penalty or go a bit wide and lose / defend the position after that mistake.

Another example I've found (on the same track) is when I've driven through the second-to-last corner complex (the right to tight-left hander before the hairpin) and a car has spun out in front of me on the exit to the corner and is on the grass heading towards the track. With the line I've taken through the corner I'm going to come out towards the right-hand-side kerb, carrying a fair bit of speed, and although I've moved over to the left (to avoid the joining car) they've collided with my rear-right wheel and I've been awarded a penalty (again!).

It seems like the penalty system cannot detect this kind of level of error, so just awards you with a penalty as if you've chosen to be reckless. An error for PD to improve on, i'm sure, over time.

Not just me, though?

With your second point I agree. The penalty system should detect who's coming from outside the track and penalize those. They're the ones who have to make sure to come back on track when there's no one coming, even it that means falling back to the back of the pack. This point is even mentioned in one of the videos you have to watch to access sport mode, but of course people don't care about it.

 

[Cssgareth]

This seems reasonable to me. Otherwhise people would break check while on corners just to leave the guys who are on their tail behind and come out of the corner faster.

Avoid it by nailing the corner. If you don't, you get the penalty or go a bit wide and lose / defend the position after that mistake.



With your second point I agree. The penalty system should detect who's coming from outside the track and penalize those. They're the ones who have to make sure to come back on track when there's no one coming, even it that means falling back to the back of the pack. This point is even mentioned in one of the videos you have to watch to access sport mode, but of course people don't care about it.

I agree ref the brake checking, but with that example I wasn't even racing in a group, I was around 5 seconds ahead, but as a result of goofing the corner they caught up. If the speed difference is significant they ghost you out, so it appears theres a threshold between carrying enough speed and not on this one.

 

[JulesDennis]

The SR system needs to be looked at and get improvments.I've wrote about that need when the beta came out.
And while we are talking about the SR and since they are pretty much "copy" the iracing system they need to also copy the damage model (that would actually make people less reckless).
You hit someone really hard from behind?Not only get a "penalty" but also damage.
2 min for toe and 2 min for a fix (or similar to what iracing does).
Then perhaps people would be more carefull about going flat out when they should not.

 

[zzz_pt]

I agree ref the brake checking, but with that example I wasn't even racing in a group, I was around 5 seconds ahead, but as a result of goofing the corner they caught up. If the speed difference is significant they ghost you out, so it appears theres a threshold between carrying enough speed and not on this one.

There are no ghosts on SR S, so if you're working towards the best SR, you should know that doesn't happen so it's better to avoid mistakes.

I got a 10sec penalty yesterday because I was following 2 cars around Nurb and on the corner before the Schumacher S, The guy in front broke early, then the guy in the middle (in front of me) hit him and pretty much stopped in the middle of the road. I was was already breaking but because he hit the guy in front, I bumped him and the went off track because "GT bump kart physics". In reality, at the speed I bumped him he shouldn't have a problem staying on track but sometimes the bumper kart physics can trick you.

All this to say that I got a 10 sec penalty because of no fault of my own. I ended up winning the race but it was annoying to get rid of those 10 seconds because even on straights sometimes the penalty doesn't go away if you take your foot of the throttle. :/

 

[Sean Renon]

Hey all, happy Friday!

I wanted to open a thread around how the in-game penalties are awarded. I've sunk a fair amount of time into GT Sport from the closed beta upwards, and since launch I've noticed that the in-game penalty systems seems a little, well, um, irritating.

First off, I think it's awesome that PD are trying to penalise drivers that are out there for nothing but mayhem and on the whole, I think it's working. However, there've been a few moments in races where I've felt a penalty has been awarded rather unfairly.

For example, whilst racing on the "Yamagiwa" variant of Kyoto, I've had a number of occasions where I've mucked up mid-corner, slowed down to correct, been smacked from behind and then given a penalty. Should this be the case? Has anyone else experienced moments where they've been awarded penalties like this?

Another example I've found (on the same track) is when I've driven through the second-to-last corner complex (the right to tight-left hander before the hairpin) and a car has spun out in front of me on the exit to the corner and is on the grass heading towards the track. With the line I've taken through the corner I'm going to come out towards the right-hand-side kerb, carrying a fair bit of speed, and although I've moved over to the left (to avoid the joining car) they've collided with my rear-right wheel and I've been awarded a penalty (again!).

It seems like the penalty system cannot detect this kind of level of error, so just awards you with a penalty as if you've chosen to be reckless. An error for PD to improve on, i'm sure, over time.

Not just me, though?

I've noticed that the game seems to have allowances built in for when it will apply -SR to you when you've been contacted and when it won't give you -SR.

For instance, if you are braking at the correct time and taking the normal driving line of a corner and get smacked you won't receive -SR.
If you take the normal driving line, but are bumped and somebody bumping you has caused you to bump the driver in front, you don't usually receive -SR.

However, the times I've been off the "normal" driving line (i.e undercutting corners trying to pass) and somebody else has made contact with me, I usually receive -SR.
I think this is because the algorithm that decides -SR or not isn't yet able to distinguish from drivers driving safely, but off the driving line from drivers who are driving overly aggressive who are off the driving line.
There are plenty of other things the algorithm cannot figure out yet, like for instance one time I was coming into the second half of the chicane on Dragons Tail and an overly aggressive driver decided to try and undercut the inside line on that corner (literally made no sense, his angle/speed would've put him right into the wall), so when he plowed into my drivers door the game decided that I cut him off even though I entered the chicane in front and was in front going into the second half of it, and it gave me a 10 second penalty after being plastered into the wall.

I'm sure with the extensive review and data they're getting from sport mode so far they'll make adjustments, but I totally agree one of the main things that needs to be adjusted is drivers coming in from off track.

 

[TCG]

I mentioned in another Thread about an incident where I missed my break point, ran straight into the car ahead, completely 100% my fault yet I get ZERO penalty and gain a place and the guy I hit lost his place, received an SR penalty and also lost 2 more places due to 10second time pentilty. It needs work for sure.

I get that the SR system will never be perfect but the system should at the very least be able to handle a very clear-cut situation as described above.

 

[Shottah072]

There already are a million topics about this. Just like there are on the iRacing forums.

The system is not perfect.

But the simple truth is that if u are a capable driver u will have no trouble at all to get to SR S. I did it within 20 races while battling cars all the time. Sure u might get tapped or will be given a penalty sometimes when it was not your fault. But in the long run, if u are as capable and clean as u might think you are, you wil get there easy. If you are having trouble getting there that just means you are not as good as you might think. Instead of blaming it on the system you should be more aware of your own mistakes. This might sound harsh and you could disagree but is the truth, im sorry.

 

[Sean Renon]

There already are a million topics about this. Just like there are on the iRacing forums.

The system is not perfect.

But the simple truth is that if u are a capable driver u will have no trouble at all to get to SR S. I did it within 20 races while battling cars all the time. Sure u might get tapped or will be given a penalty sometimes when it was not your fault. But in the long run, if u are as capable and clean as u might think you are, you wil get there easy. If you are having trouble getting there that just means you are not as good as you might think. Instead of blaming it on the system you should be more aware of your own mistakes. This might sound harsh and you could disagree but is the truth, im sorry.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you, but the more this is publicly spoken about, the more it will go back to the dev's and the more the system will improve.

 

[RotorHed]

For example, whilst racing on the "Yamagiwa" variant of Kyoto, I've had a number of occasions where I've mucked up mid-corner, slowed down to correct, been smacked from behind and then given a penalty. Should this be the case? Has anyone else experienced moments where they've been awarded penalties like this?

Another example I've found (on the same track) is when I've driven through the second-to-last corner complex (the right to tight-left hander before the hairpin) and a car has spun out in front of me on the exit to the corner and is on the grass heading towards the track. With the line I've taken through the corner I'm going to come out towards the right-hand-side kerb, carrying a fair bit of speed, and although I've moved over to the left (to avoid the joining car) they've collided with my rear-right wheel and I've been awarded a penalty (again!).

For both of these you deserved the SR degrade/penalty with the descriptions you gave.

First for screwing up and not being out of the way while slowing down, second for not anticipating the incident and slowing down a bit.

Not sure what else to tell you. If you can win and be incident free you'll get to S/S. If you can only do well by getting into these incidents then your SR won't be S.

No one cares about SR anyway, so just enjoy yourself.

 

[Cssgareth]

For both of these you deserved the SR degrade/penalty with the descriptions you gave.

First for screwing up and not being out of the way while slowing down, second for not anticipating the incident and slowing down a bit.

Not sure what else to tell you. If you can win and be incident free you'll get to S/S. If you can only do well by getting into these incidents then your SR won't be S.

No one cares about SR anyway, so just enjoy yourself.

The second incident I had moved out of the way, but they still managed to make contact. I did write that in the first post

 

[RotorHed]

The second incident I had moved out of the way, but they still managed to make contact. I did write that in the first post

First post you just said "slowed down" - that's not always safe on a race track... or even on normal roads.

 

[Shottah072]

The second incident I had moved out of the way, but they still managed to make contact. I did write that in the first post

Just moving out of the way aint good enough and is the classic rooky mistake. When things go wrong in front of u u slow down giving you more control of your own car and more time to react. Sure u cant avoid everything but most of the time u actually can if u just slow down. But by just keeping the throttle down and not reducing your speed your setting yourself up for trouble. You might lose a couple of seconds or positions but you will gain consistency amd SR by slowin down when thing go wrong in front if u.

 

[Shottah072]

I don't think anyone disagrees with you, but the more this is publicly spoken about, the more it will go back to the dev's and the more the system will improve.

They might inprove some stuff thats fine. But it is a no fault system. Meaning that when 2 cars colide both should get penalised.

 

[Shottah072]

To add to this i really recomend watching this youtube series about getting out of rookies (E in GTS) in iRacing. It is more oval focused but apply's exactly the same to road tracks.

 

[Sean Renon]

They might inprove some stuff thats fine. But it is a no fault system. Meaning that when 2 cars colide both should get penalised.

Totally disagree, you can't write rules in black and white.
There are racing incidents where both parties share blame relatively equally, then there are accidents caused solely by 1 person driving erratically or overly aggressive.

If somebody dive bombs a corner of the last corner because they're annoyed they aren't winning and cause a collision how can you punish the driver in front for driving the driving line.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

The system certainly needs some work. Right now, it seems both drivers get a penalty after most contact. Both drivers don't always deserve a penalty.

Yesterday, on Kyoto, I was accelerating out of the apex in the last left turn. I was in the racing line. Running a great lap. BAM... another driver overshot the corner and speared me into the wall. I got a 10 sec penalty! For What? I did nothing wrong.

 

[Shottah072]

Totally disagree, you can't write rules in black and white.
There are racing incidents where both parties share blame relatively equally, then there are accidents caused solely by 1 person driving erratically or overly aggressive.

If somebody dive bombs a corner of the last chicane because they're annoyed they aren't winning and cause a collision how can you reasonably punish the driver in front.

Because if the one in front was a clean driver he wil rank up SR despite being punted and loosing some this time. The one making the divebombs wil never rank up. Thats how the no fault system works. This isnt real racing with stewards and racing rules. If it were i'd totally agree with you ofcourse. But this an online racing simulator, people or gonna screw other people, by accident, by lack of skill or knowledge or because they just dont care. To sort that problem the no fault penalty system is the best option out there. iRacing uses it as well and it has the best online racing there is.

 

[foxtrotonfire]

For example, whilst racing on the "Yamagiwa" variant of Kyoto, I've had a number of occasions where I've mucked up mid-corner, slowed down to correct, been smacked from behind and then given a penalty. Should this be the case? Has anyone else experienced moments where they've been awarded penalties like this?

I had a 10 second penalty for going inside of the hairpin and slightly brushed the other car to my right. In my defence, I gave the driver enough room for him to turn but he squeezed me and I had no choice but to hit him as my car understeered massively. I guess it is my fault but what I don't like is that my SR instantly dropped from A to B after that race. I raced cleanly after the incident and the SR symbol is green for the remainder of the race. It takes few clean races to gain an SR, but it only took just one slight hit for my SR to drop.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

Because if the one in front was a clean driver he wil rank up SR despite being punted and loosing some this time. The one making the divebombs wil never rank up. Thats how the no fault system works. This isnt real racing with stewards and racing rules. If it were i'd totally agree with you ofcourse. But this an online racing simulator, people or gonna screw other people, by accident, by lack of skill or knowledge or because they just dont care. To sort that problem the no fault penalty system is the best option out there. iRacing uses it as well and it has the best online racing there is.

I understand your reasoning. However, why should my SR go down and I get a 10 sec penalty when I'm speared in a corner? I was in a race with DR B drivers.

 

[Shottah072]

I understand your reasoning. However, why should my SR go down and I get a 10 sec penalty when I'm speared in a corner? I was in a race with DR B drivers.

Its a shame. Sometimes that happens. But you need to understand that the system is not to work per race but over the course of many races. Like i said if u drive clean and well u will gain SR in the long run. The guy that ruined your race probably never will if thats how he always drives and he wont improve.

 

[Sean Renon]

Because if the one in front was a clean driver he wil rank up SR despite being punted and loosing some this time. The one making the divebombs wil never rank up. Thats how the no fault system works. This isnt real racing with stewards and racing rules. If it were i'd totally agree with you ofcourse. But this an online racing simulator, people or gonna screw other people, by accident, by lack of skill or knowledge or because they just dont care. To sort that problem the no fault penalty system is the best option out there. iRacing uses it as well and it has the best online racing there is.

iRacing using a simplistic system, it doesn't mean you HAVE to have it that way.
It just means that it'll take time for PD to fine tune the system they're trying to put in place which doesn't penalize players who were at 0 fault.

iRacing is also a subscription based game, which almost immediately caters to a different type of driver, being on PC means it's mostly wheel setups whereas GT:Sport more than likely is trying to tap into a more casual market.

A casual racer who might get a race or two in every day isn't going to be very pleased if an accident he/she is totally not at fault for is punished for it.
And while yes I agree a zero fault system in the end will eventually get everyone to the correct ranking, it will take the most time.

Think of this from a mathematical point of view. Drivers have an SR, which essentially makes them numbers, these numbers are shifting right now, but in the long run they will eventually even out.
PD's job is basically figuring out how to sort these numbers using an algorithm.
iRacing uses the slowest algorithm, it's tried and true and really doesn't have much thought put into it, but it works.
PD is attempting to create a faster algorithm, something they obviously have't mastered yet, but with continued work I highly expect they could figure out.

Your suggesting to simply use the simple algorithm iRacing has developed because it works. This isn't how innovation works, Gran Turismo Sport is trying to be the next best racing sim, not a recreation of iRacing. I fully expect that the SR system will be updated constantly and will eventually be a lot more reliable than it is now, give it some time.

Here is a visual example.



Essentially PD is trying to develop something similar to quick sort, a faster way.
iRacing is using dated technology and we don't have to settle for it.

 

[dabz343]

Some good thoughts here on SR. Want to introduce how ratings in general could be improved as the FIA CUp and other Championships launch shortly.

The premise of ratings is working but the flaws are starting to show, and if the integrity of the concept becomes questionable then I'm afraid there goes the experience. The most important factor I can see having run nearly 100 Sport races is NOT how SR+/SR- is distributed, although I agree with most that currently it's erratic.

Rather, the only factor that really matters is the in-race penalties that impact the final standings. Currently, one could race aggressively, spin others off track, nudge, lean and gain a few positions only to finish a race with a slightly bruised SR and an undeserved DR+. If polyphony is serious in building the future of GTS on its rating logic then they need to start hitting bad drivers where it hurts.

At the moment, the focus is on how SR should differentiate between incidences. Once achieved, there needs to be sensible ranking of penalties that affect the ongoing race so that sportsmanship and fairplay is preserved.

 

[Shottah072]

iRacing using a simplistic system, it doesn't mean you HAVE to have it that way.
It just means that it'll take time for PD to fine tune the system they're trying to put in place which doesn't penalize players who were at 0 fault.

I never said we have to have it that way. But currently we seem to do have the no fault penalty system.

iRacing is also a subscription based game, which almost immediately caters to a different type of driver, being on PC means it's mostly wheel setups whereas GT:Sport more than likely is trying to tap into a more casual market.

True that. However GT Sport was sold as an competetive online racer. They have a huge casual market. But this edition was more designed for their competetive fanbase and an evolution of the GT acadamy. If there casual fanbase were to buy this game they may not like it, we see plenty of that on this forum.
[/QUOTE]

A casual racer who might get a race or two in every day isn't going to be very pleased if an accident he/she is totally not at fault for is punished for it.
And while yes I agree a zero fault system in the end will eventually get everyone to the correct ranking, it will take the most time.

Well if he or she is a casual driver only driving 1 or 2 races a day. They may not even be aware of being at fault in the first place. You are at fault for not anticipating a crash or spin in front of u about to happen. When it happens you are at fault when you dont slow down so you can control the car and avoid trouble. U are at fault when u brake 50m earlier every corner. Most of the times they feel it wasnt there fault they probably could have done allot more to avoid it themself.

Think of this from a mathematical point of view. Drivers have an SR, which essentially makes them numbers, these numbers are shifting right now, but in the long run they will eventually even out.
PD's job is basically figuring out how to sort these numbers using an algorithm.
iRacing uses the slowest algorithm, it's tried and true and really doesn't have much thought put into it, but it works.
PD is attempting to create a faster algorithm, something they obviously have't mastered yet, but with continued work I highly expect they could figure out.

Your suggesting to simply use the simple algorithm iRacing has developed because it works. This isn't how innovation works, Gran Turismo Sport is trying to be the next best racing sim, not a recreation of iRacing. I fully expect that the SR system will be updated constantly and will eventually be a lot more reliable than it is now, give it some time.

Here is a visual example.

Lol i have no clue at all what that video is supose to show me, sorry.

I never suggested it should be exactly like iRacing, all i said was that iRacing as well uses a no fault penalty system and it works well. In fact i agree with u that the GTS system is different and way quicker. I was SR S in about 20 races. To get to A license in iRacing takes way longer. But GTS does seem to have a no fault penalty system. I too think they will improve it but i think they will keep the no fault principal.
[/QUOTE]

Essentially PD is trying to develop something similar to quick sort, a faster way.
iRacing is using dated technology and we don't have to settle for it.

I agree. But again i believe the no fault system will stay. For the casuals theres also the ghosting effect to protect hem a little. None of that in DR S or even lower havent seen it long time. At the finals and important events there will be stewards but in the run ups it will just be the no fault system to sort it out on its own.

 

[Sean Renon]

We don't have a no fault system. On my climb to SR:A I have been hit a few times by dive bombers and didn't receive any negative SR notifications.

That's the point I'm trying to make, no fault or zero tolerance systems are dated and can take a long time to get drivers into their appropriate ranks.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

Its a shame. Sometimes that happens. But you need to understand that the system is not to work per race but over the course of many races. Like i said if u drive clean and well u will gain SR in the long run. The guy that ruined your race probably never will if thats how he always drives and he wont improve.

I hope you're right. In other areas I have seen the system doing it's job. I was really liking it honestly, until the incident yesterday. I think it shocked me most to have that happen once I reached B B. That stuff happend a lot when I was in D and less at C. I've even noticed the system being more forgiving at B too. Little brushes from tight racing and slight accidentle nudges under braking it excuses.

 

[gh3]

I was looking for the right thread and probably I found that, I'm a victim of Kyoto track and unexpected penalty.
I started today playing with A-S rating, I finished upset with C-A.

Except for not running warmup that removed my setup letting me driving with the slower stock setup, then I managed to experience some funny situations I want to share with you. And you already know how it ended up.

• turn 1, behind driver brake too late, bumped (-Rating), pushed on the grass (penalty for me)
• turn 2, behind driver try to pass you using grass/curb, force you go wide (-R)
• turn 3 (the long one after the hill), behind driver miss braking point hit me (-R) pushing me to the grass (penalty for me)
• turn 3 behind driver have the idea to pass me on grass/curb, force me to go wide pushing (-R) and miss the exit curb (penalty for me)
• turn 4 (the quick s), behind driver brake late, push me (-R), I miss the brake and pass over the grass (penalty for me)
• turn 4 behind driver tried to overtake inside, I try to give as much room as possible, but force me out (-R) and (penalty)
• turn 5 behind driver tried to overtake, I give room, but he run on the curb, slide hit me on the side (-R) and make my car spin
• turn 5 (the second S) same as above + I was forced to go out the curb (penalty)
• turn 6 you can imagine whatever you want pushed, forced out, probably I experience all the possibilities

I'm usual to try to avoid crash and give room and loose a position instead of being too aggressive... but it doesn't help.

I also figured out that probably a lot of driver are using the game without the mirror (e.g. camera on hood) or doesn't look at spotters at all because you start overtaking and they totally close the door, but not as expected earlier to inhibit your move but at the late/middle of the turn.

That's all, tomorrow is another day to driver, I will be more careful and try to raise back my rating as it was before.

I think that some of the situation above can be better handled by the rating/penalty system to not over penalise driver in those situation, because sometimes you notice that only you are the one penalised and not the "hitter".

 

[ElFlambe]

Hey all, happy Friday!

I wanted to open a thread around how the in-game penalties are awarded. I've sunk a fair amount of time into GT Sport from the closed beta upwards, and since launch I've noticed that the in-game penalty systems seems a little, well, um, irritating.

First off, I think it's awesome that PD are trying to penalise drivers that are out there for nothing but mayhem and on the whole, I think it's working. However, there've been a few moments in races where I've felt a penalty has been awarded rather unfairly.

For example, whilst racing on the "Yamagiwa" variant of Kyoto, I've had a number of occasions where I've mucked up mid-corner, slowed down to correct, been smacked from behind and then given a penalty. Should this be the case? Has anyone else experienced moments where they've been awarded penalties like this?

Another example I've found (on the same track) is when I've driven through the second-to-last corner complex (the right to tight-left hander before the hairpin) and a car has spun out in front of me on the exit to the corner and is on the grass heading towards the track. With the line I've taken through the corner I'm going to come out towards the right-hand-side kerb, carrying a fair bit of speed, and although I've moved over to the left (to avoid the joining car) they've collided with my rear-right wheel and I've been awarded a penalty (again!).

It seems like the penalty system cannot detect this kind of level of error, so just awards you with a penalty as if you've chosen to be reckless. An error for PD to improve on, i'm sure, over time.

Not just me, though?

The idea of the SR system is a great one. Unfortunately, it's content and application have not been thought through carefully enough and so, as well as penalizing the reckless, it also punishes the victims. The SR warnings, when you get shunted in the back, for example. If someone runs into you on the open road, they are the ones who lose points on their licence. In the same way, the victim of a burglary doesn't get fined for having their property stolen.