Star Trek Actor Anton Yelchin Dies In Accident

[Famine]

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration concluded that the Chrysler shifters "appear to violate basic design guidelines for vehicle controls.

I find this whole thing quite interesting.

I don't follow what's specifically wrong with the Cherokee's shifter. I've driven a number of cars recently where the auto shifter centres after selection and the only indication that it has done something is a light. This includes the Cherokee, but also the Infiniti QX30 and Mercedes C-Class Coupe and GLC.

From what I understand, Yelchin didn't put it in park - which seems to be a process of pressing the button and pushing the shifter as far forwards as it will go until "P" lights up on the shifter itself and next to the fuel gauge in the instrument binnacle.

On the QX30, P is an entirely separate button, behind the shifter. It also lights up and displays a "P" in the dash.

The Mercedes system is on a stalk behind to the wheel. Park is a button on the end of the stalk and does nothing except the "P" indicator in the dash.

Why is the FCA/Jeep system being held up as particularly confusing?

 

[ryzno]

Why is the FCA/Jeep system being held up as particularly confusing?

Because 'Merica?

Edit: I also seem to be the only American that uses a parking brake. Guess it's habit from driving big trucks/vans. We were taught not to trust a 1/4" piece of steel to hold 10k+lbs on a hill.

 

[Famine]

Because 'Merica?

I imagine that Mercedes is quite a popular brand in the USA (particularly California), and Infiniti is probably marginally less rare than in Europe too. All four cars I named can be bought there and are arguably no less confusing or vague.

 

[ryzno]

I imagine that Mercedes is quite a popular brand in the USA (particularly California), and Infiniti is probably marginally less rare than in Europe too. All four cars I named can be bought there and are arguably no less confusing or vague.

Have they had any incidents like this one?
I don't mean a well known person. But the actual problem with users leaving it in gear.

 

[Famine]

Have they had any incidents like this one?

I have no idea. But to repeat, I don't know why one system is being held up as vague in amongst a sea of similar systems:

I don't follow what's specifically wrong with the Cherokee's shifter.

Why is the FCA/Jeep system being held up as particularly confusing?

... which is why I asked the above.

If the answer is "America", why is America not finding itself as confused by a system that could be considered equally vague (Infiniti) or one that is more vague through fewer indications (Mercedes)?

 

[CodeRedR51]

On the QX30, P is an entirely separate button, behind the shifter. It also lights up and displays a "P" in the dash.

Ditto on the Audi Q7 I drove this week.

 

[ryzno]

@Famine For starters we're sue happy.
But sadly we're also a country were someone in the lime light, has to die for things to happen. Remember Dale Earnhardt Sr. I don't recall the Hanns device being mandated internationally until his death. If there are safety concerns with this style here. I'm sure it will flow through the international auto industry.

 

[Famine]

For starters we're sue happy.

Which I entirely understand, but it's not related to the question:

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration concluded that the Chrysler shifters "appear to violate basic design guidelines for vehicle controls.

I don't follow what's specifically wrong with the Cherokee's shifter.

[discussion of similarly-designed systems]

Why is the FCA/Jeep system being held up as particularly confusing?

If NHTSA reckons the FCA system 'violates basic design guidelines', why don't the other similarly-designed systems from Mercedes and Infiniti (and Audi) get the same rebuke? They are, after all, similarly-designed and the design is was NHTSA is criticising...

 

[Blitz24]

Which I entirely understand, but it's not related to the question:

If NHTSA reckons the FCA system 'violates basic design guidelines', why don't the other similarly-designed systems from Mercedes and Infiniti (and Audi) get the same rebuke? They are, after all, similarly-designed and the design is was NHTSA is criticising...

I'm even more surprised that the NHTSA won't even certify the shifter design before it's sold. America loves regulating cars so this is a surprise to me.

 

[ryzno]

@Famine

- April 22nd, 2016: Fiat Chrysler started recalls on 1.1 million of the above named cars and the 2012-2014 Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300 and the 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee after more than 100 crashes and at least 41 injuries was directly attributed to the faulty shifter. I think it was on or shortly after that time that Anton Yelchin bought one of the recalled Grand Cherokees seemingly without knowing of the recall.

Last time I checked a vehicle under recall can not be sold after the recall until it has been repaired.
That being said.

- June 28th, 2016: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration concluded that the Chrysler shifters "appear to violate basic design guidelines for vehicle controls." The recall that was conducted on 22/4/2016 was only done to update software, however, the NHTSA report says that it found problems with the electronic gear shifters that use monostable electronic (shift-by-wire) gearshift assemblies. The updated stats on the number of complaints reached 700 complaints, 266 crashes and 68 injuries, and may have directly contributed to the death of Yelchin, but the investigation was ongoing.

This is all I can find. My only guess is the other system you have to manually put it in park(hold button)?
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...-position-sequence-starter-interlock-and#p-93

 

[Sanji Himura]

Last time I checked a vehicle under recall can not be sold after the recall until it has been repaired.
That being said.

In my defense, I did say in a later post that Yelchin could have had the recalled issues sorted, but the repairs failed to hold up because all they did during the recall was a software update, and nothing mechanical:

That, and I'm sure that some people who hear recall immediately sell their vehicles. It could be entirely possible that before the Grand Cherokee entered into Yelchin's possession, it was a one owner car. Or it's possible that Yelchin took it in, got the recall issue sorted, and it still failed him because that particular Grand Cherokee was a "shift-by-wire" system. We won't know until all the details come out.

 

[Tornado]

Yelchin was dead before Chrysler actually had the software fix put together.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Yelchin was dead before Chrysler actually had the software fix put together.

You're right:

CAS (Center for Auto Safety) says Chrysler didn't take the issue seriously because the automaker didn't tell owners when the vehicles would be fixed. FCA issued an interim notification letter that said the gear selectors would be repaired by the fourth quarter of 2016, something CAS says proves the automaker wasn't too concerned about the matter.

This alone should prove gross negligence concerning the car.

 

[ryzno]

Sorry I can't provide a link. But TMZ said Chrysler said it was driver error.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sorry I can't provide a link. But TMZ said Chrysler said it was driver error.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...elchin-deserves-blame-death-article-1.2819807

A California Chrysler dealership claims Anton Yelchin should be blamed for his own death after his Jeep rolled backward and crushed him between a metal gate and a brick pillar. The Valencia, California, car agency fired back at the wrongful death lawsuit submitted by Yelchin’s parents with a court filing of its own, explaining why it should not be liable for Yelchin’s untimely passing, TMZ reports. The dealership believes Yelchin’s death occurred because of his own “misuse, misapplication, or damage” in operating the vehicle that ultimately killed him, according to the court documents obtained by the celebrity gossip site.

 

[Grayfox]

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...elchin-deserves-blame-death-article-1.2819807

Well they might win.

After all all automatics show what gear your in on the dashboard.
PRND.
So he should have payed attention is what they will most likely say.
If car activated a ringer due to it being in a non Park gear when the door was opened it will be stronger.

But with Yelchin being famous and what not the case might be settled.

 

[Pupik]

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...elchin-deserves-blame-death-article-1.2819807

I can attest that dealerships are terrible at admitting fault in anything, they are not equipped to be laboratories for ascertaining fine flaws, and they are about as suitable in making life-and-death judgement as your local ice cream truck.

If the manufacturer had any fault, you could bet they'd probably settle out-of-court, unless they needed a third (or fourth) party to verify their claims.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Well they might win.

After all all automatics show what gear your in on the dashboard.
PRND.
So he should have payed attention is what they will most likely say.
If car activated a ringer due to it being in a non Park gear when the door was opened it will be stronger.

But with Yelchin being famous and what not the case might be settled.

I agree that the dealership might win, but not for the reason that you stated. If the dealer can prove that it was a manufacturing defect that caused his death, then the blame should be entirely placed on the manufacturer of the car (Fiat Crystler) not on the dealership. If the dealer knew that the shifter was bad, then the dealer would be responsible for selling a faulty car. That's the standard for negligence.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If the dealer knew that the shifter was bad, then the dealer would be responsible for selling a faulty car. That's the standard for negligence.

That's an interesting case in itself; if a vehicle is delivered with the appropriate factory QA paperwork then the dealer is acting reasonably in presuming that the vehicle is fit to sell. That provision is quite likely to be in the franchise/supply contracts. One would have to show that the dealership operated the vehicle in particular circumstances where the "fault" would have been clearly evident... even then the dealer might reasonably argue that their staff are "used to" that type of gearbox and that they saw the operation as being within normal design parameters and therefore outside their remit.

They might also say that the only people who operated the vehicle were a third-party delivery agent and the customer themselves during a test drive, and so on and so on.

 

[Sanji Himura]

That's an interesting case in itself; if a vehicle is delivered with the appropriate factory QA paperwork then the dealer is acting reasonably in presuming that the vehicle is fit to sell. That provision is quite likely to be in the franchise/supply contracts. One would have to show that the dealership operated the vehicle in particular circumstances where the "fault" would have been clearly evident... even then the dealer might reasonably argue that their staff are "used to" that type of gearbox and that they saw the operation as being within normal design parameters and therefore outside their remit.

They might also say that the only people who operated the vehicle were a third-party delivery agent and the customer themselves during a test drive, and so on and so on.

I was speaking more in line with the question that did the dealer know that the car was subject to a recall that wasn't disclosed by either the proper authorities or the manufacturer? Since it is illegal to sell a car that is subject of a recall, it again falls on the maker.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I was speaking more in line with the question that did the dealer know that the car was subject to a recall that wasn't disclosed by either the proper authorities or the manufacturer? Since it is illegal to sell a car that is subject of a recall, it again falls on the maker.

I see your point... but the recall would be issued by the manufacturer; the manufacturer either assessed the situation properly and issued appropriate instructions or they didn't. That ball is still in the manufacturer's court, I think (in the case you describe).

If the manufacturer acted properly but the dealership failed to follow instructions then that puts the dealership in some real trouble, certainly.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Yelchin's parents reach settlement with Fiat over the actor's death:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/ce...er-actor’s-death/ar-BBKzY8z?OCID=ansmsnnews11