STAR WARS General Discussion | Warning: Possible SPOILERS!Movies 

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MrSulu
I went for the 2D option, I am still yet to get over watching Dave Englands poo volcano in Jackass 3D.

I think an injured trained force user could dispatch an ex-stormtrooper who spent most of his time on sanitation duty trying to use a weapon he is completely unfamiliar with easily, Finn shouldn't have been able to get within a country mile of Ren before he got choked/pushed/mind tricked/chopped into little ice cube shaped bits. How Finn managed to get within melee range then score a few strikes on top of that is miraculous to say the least.

Rey thought the force and Luke Skywalker where a myth until they found the light saber. Fighting off a few scumbags with a stick on Jakku and taking on an injured sith armed with a lightsaber are not even remotely close by any stretch of the imagination. I understand they had to develop the character but it was all a bit too quick and not in the correct order for me, my suspension of disbelief was pushed to the limit.

I feel it would have been better if Ren simply escaped without the saber fights, then have Luke train Rey to be a sith beater in the next film before they actually come to blows, that would make more sense. Instead we got the equivalent of Luke kicking Vaders arse on the death star right there and then because he killed Obi-wan
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Finn was trained from a very young age to be a soldier. I doubt he spent most of his life as a janitor, he was skilled enough to be on Kylo's/Phasma's raiding party after all. There's also that stormtrooper with the stun tonfa, so it seems that lightsaber defence (which implies some knowledge of the offence) is part of the First Order's training. Kylo isn't in the best state of mind to be using his (admittedly) formidable force powers, and honestly I think Finn would be his first 'proper' duel, up to that point his main victims were little kids, bound prisoners, and the odd control panel. There's also the possibility that Finn is force sensitive to some extent as he has managed to resist being brainwashed by the First Order.

Yeah Rey thinks that initially, but she buys in once she meets Han/has the vision/talks to Maz/gets captured. She's thrown in the deep end but she knows those myths well enough to make sense of it. We're shown that Rey possesses greater power than Kylo (who isn't a sith) during the interrogation scene, and Kylo isn't intending to kill her anyway as Snoke told him to capture her so they could convert her. Rey was running away for 90% of the fight, it was only when her back was against the wall and Kylo mentions the force that she remember's Maz's advice and starts driving him back, and at that point Kylo was probably running on fumes. I agree that Rey seems too overpowered but it didn't really pull me out of the movie.

It isn't really the equivalent of Luke kicking Vader's arse, it's thematically more in line with Luke remembering to use the force for that final shot at the Death Star, even if another trench run on another base is taking place during the fight. I reckon having two 'successful' missions being completed was a way of making up for Han's death, as he is a far more beloved character at this point in time compared to Obi-Wan.
 
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Allright for those who already watching it, anyone see these actors on the film?

jk.jpg


Stars of The Raid. Kimda surprised they announce their participation just a day before the premiere. Contract, maybe.
 
So, I watched it. Loved bits of it. Felt some things could have been done better. Like the new cast. I was a bit worried about the direction they'd take, but I think the screen chemistry of the main characters is good... which means great things for the sequels.

Like others, I thought the music was okay but not especially stirring. There were some very subtle segues between bits within the scenes, but there's so much going on that the music simply didn't stand out. I suppose it will please those who buy the soundtrack, and it did contribute atmospherically to the movie, but it needed some more oomph.

Overall, I think I'd give it an 8/10. The first half was fantastic, the second half felt a bit half-and-half... if only because it felt overly familiar. But it was satisfying, at least. Anybody who is expecting more of this movie is simply judging it against a standard that is unfairly high. Honestly, stripped of rose-tinted glasses, none of the Star Wars films, except maybe for Empire, were exceptionally great in terms of plot, logic or common sense. Star Wars was, and has always been, a space spaghetti western slash civil war slash samurai flick. To expect either the Empire, the rebels or the Force users to suddenly start acting with anything approaching competence is a bit much. :D

Worth watching if you're a fan. If not, still worth it. Incredible effects. Great action. Good acting. Much better dialogue than any of the prequels. Just don't expect Fury Road levels of sophistication.

Some notes:

I am disappointed that Poe Dameron gets so little screentime between the first escape and the rescue battle. Giving him a few short shots in betweeen everything else (have him walk into town on Jakku looking to hitch a ride off-planet, for example) would have been great. I mean, it's pretty obvious he didn't die. His body wasn't in the Tie Fighter with the jacket. So why pretend that he did?

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Finn and Ray are interesting characters. It's probably pretty telling that Ray never gives anyone her last name, but it's a bit irksome that Abrams chooses to remind us at every possible occassion that she won't. Finn managing to bluff his way through the movie is rather endearing. Sort of Solo-esque. Do it now, figure it out later.

Ray is a bit more complex. She knows what she can do, but she is, at the same time, in denial of her opportunities for advancement and overconfident in her ability to get things done. That she does get things done the way she does suggests that perhaps she is of the Skywalker bloodline. Incredibly powerful and talented without really knowing it.

Finn is also possibly force sensitive. Ren suspects this. He took notice of Finn from the very start. It'll be interesting to see who or what his parents were.

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Kylo Ren is half-and-half. Pure power, but undisciplined. Given to tantrums, unlike Maul or Vader. More powerful, maybe, than Darth Maul (and at least he didn't get hacked in half in his first movie), but not as skilled. His boss, the hologram that just happens to be bigger than the Emperor hologram felt a little cheesy. I know, I know, this is how we were introduced to Palpatine at first, but that felt too much like retreading the same ground.

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On retreading the same ground, this is where the movie falls flat. The basic plot is pure Star Wars. Establishing shot: Giant enemy ship. Intro: Droid has a secret message from a captured spy. It's delivered to the Rebels. The Big Bad throws a tantrum. He captures the girl. The plucky heroes rescue the girl from the Death Star. The old guy gets killed by the Big Bad. The rebels finally blow up the Death Star with the help of a boy who hadn't even considered joining the Rebellion at the start of the movie. They do it by flying down a corridor while avoiding tie fighters and ground fire. After the battle, the new Jedi searches out the old Master for further training. Roll credits.

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Last nits to pick:

Honestly, has nobody in the Empire or the First Order learned anything about avoiding single failure points when engineering moon, errh... planet-sized weapons?

The shield refresh rate will let superluminal stuff in?

So I could like... drop an antimatter bomb with a hyper drive straight into the planet? Or, if the Empire doesn't have something like that... maybe fly an entire cruiser into the weapons array?

Phasma is awesome. Let her live.

First Order Stormtroopers can actually hit stuff. As long as they're not heroes.

I know this is a long time ago... but it's been decades and the Empire still hasn't learned to put guard rails on bridges over bottomless chasms.

R2D2 having just part of the map to Luke, rather than the full one, felt a little too Droid Ex Machina.

Poe Dameron disappearing for half the movie, and not interacting with Ray at all, even at the end, when they're both obviously fond of Finn, felt kind of off.

Not enough staff action. But the fact that Ray used a lot of straight thrusts in her lightsaber duel pointed out to her being an experienced staff fighter, and that's the kind of attack you would perform with that weapon.

BB-8 is execrably cute. Thankfully, they managed to make him seem capable but not ridiculously over-endowed (R2 in prequels). Great droid to start a new series with.

Akira AC
Finn's character is basically comic relief
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Were we watching the same guy? Finn is easily one of the most rounded characters in the movies. We see him growing from a scared, second-rate trooper into a decisive, courageous warrior. There's a lot of comedy in his lines because it makes sense that a boy trained to be a stormtrooper from childhood would know very little of the outside world. I'm surprised they didn't play the fish-out-of-water trope to the hilt.

I sort of share your sentiments on Kylo, but he's an interesting character, and it's refreshing coming upon a Sith in training rather than having an antagonist who is nearly infallible.

And do note, he was, actually, confused and troubled at the point where he took a bowcaster shot to the stomach (otherwise, it would never have hit him), and considering how powerful that thing was, it was kind of strange that he was still standing and not blown into a million bloody bits.

Ray is a pretty poor girl power trope. She spends half the movie being rescued from something or another. I think it's kind of endearing that she acts so tough yet at times stumbles and shows weakness. Makes her a more believable character than otherwise.

prisonermonkeys
I knew Abrams is a hack, but I didn't think he'd stoop so low as ripping off his own body of work.
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I think that's completely unfair.

Abrams obviously ripped off Star Wars itself. Maybe it would have worked better if it wasn't obviously an over-the-top homage to the original films. Maybe not.

It's still better than most of the other Star Wars films, and was a very pleasant way to spend a Christmas evening.
 
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FrzGT
Allright for those who already watching it, anyone see these actors on the film?

jk.jpg


Stars of The Raid. Kimda surprised they announce their participation just a day before the premiere. Contract, maybe.
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images


I think the middle one was the bartender?
 
SlipZtrEm
It's a little unbelievable Rey could hold her own against Ren in a lightsaber battle, even taking into account he was injured, and she's obviously experienced with her staff. But, if the major theory of her being Luke's daughter is true, then I'd be willing to overlook it. Luke won against overwhelming odds a few times in the original trilogy too!
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It's something that I was also wondering. Not only that, but Fin wasn't doing terribly in that scene, either. It seems like Fin had a harder time with the Trooper that yelled "traitor!" Hell, the only reason he left that scene alive is likely because of that laser's that blasted the trooper away. I'm wondering how that Trooper would have fared against Kylo Ren, because he was kicking some major ass :lol:

Back to Kylo Ren; After that scene I all but wondered how "powerful" Ren really is. He seems to let his anger take control, and instead of feeding him, it seems to make him more prone to fault(More than likely has to do with his lightside pull). I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, considering his injuries going into that battle, but the idea does linger. However, Snoke does make note at the end, that Kylo Ren must finish his training.

Is Kylo Ren the padawan that Luke took under his wing, that fell to the dark side and pushed Luke into his self-made exile?

McLaren
During her fight with Ren, as she was running away until she once again, calmed down & "used the Force", I think is what tipped the odds in her scale. Once she accepted she was gifted with it, it allowed her to "tap" into her inner strength to defeat him. After all, she also learned to fly the Falcon solo the amazement of Han himself (which also could be a clue to Luke's daughter; he was an incredibly gifted pilot).

My only issue with her was her first experimenting with the Force, and how she knew exactly to phrase her words, "You will untie my restraints and let me go". It was said in a very similar tone & phrase to how Luke would use it. All of this leading me to the same speculation as you; she is Luke's daughter & the Force is something that will come "natural" to her allowing her to accomplish feats she hasn't yet understood how. Otherwise, Episode 8 may have to do some back story on why Rey is so gifted otherwise, unless she is pure as Yoda might say.
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There was that scene when she first found Luke's Lightsaber, that triggered the memories of Luke. Afterwards, that one orange lady( I forgot her name :lol:) comes out and explains that it's calling to her, like it called to Luke and his father before him.

It probably doesn't have any link, but I if you look back they've all had the same upbringing. They being Anakin, Luke, and Rey. Poverty-stricken desert backworld all salvaging parts for cash for a living. Likely doesn't have anything to do with it, but I thought it was interesting.
 
niky
Were we watching the same guy? Finn is easily one of the most rounded characters in the movies. We see him growing from a scared, second-rate trooper into a decisive, courageous warrior. There's a lot of comedy in his lines because it makes sense that a boy trained to be a stormtrooper from childhood would know very little of the outside world. I'm surprised they didn't play the fish-out-of-water trope to the hilt.

I sort of share your sentiments on Kylo, but he's an interesting character, and it's refreshing coming upon a Sith in training rather than having an antagonist who is nearly infallible.

And do note, he was, actually, confused and troubled at the point where he took a bowcaster shot to the stomach (otherwise, it would never have hit him), and considering how powerful that thing was, it was kind of strange that he was still standing and not blown into a million bloody bits.

Ray is a pretty poor girl power trope. She spends half the movie being rescued from something or another. I think it's kind of endearing that she acts so tough yet at times stumbles and shows weakness. Makes her a more believable character than otherwise.
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Most of the problem I have with Finn was the whole "clumsy but effective" thing, in the general arc of the story he shows actual "growth", however most of his scenes consisted on comic relief actions, the character arc is not shown enough IMO (but he does have it, I like the character but it's annoying that he mostly acts as a comic relief).

This could be tangentially the gripe I have about the story, because the story itself is so ... recycled, there is nothing to make it "stand out", so character based actions come across as a service to make the story work within guidelines rather character's doing "their thing" (or actions based on character, rather than actions based on the story).

IMO narrative heavily depends on characters, because the story is driven by character actions, not vice versa (i.e. in Mad Max:Fury Road you had Furiosa and Max, there was little dialogue to Max, but his actions made the setup for the story, not the other way around, and Furiosa actively makes a twist on the story based on her actions, rather than the story adapting to service her, this kind of thing).
The movie just feels so "by the numbers" that comes across as .. dull, is not boring, there are cool dogfights and scenes, but the story, the core of the thing comes evidently as made by corporate guidelines to make marketing more profitable (the necessity of having BB-8 as an alternative to R2-D2 to have a larger catalogue to sell toys and stuff, lots of people will want that for christmas, and they wrote BB-8 to be likeable enough to be marketable, which is common for Disney).

Aside that, the movie feels so "safe", so afraid of doing something new or original or interesting that could give the audience some sense of intrigue or wonder, there is nothing like that on VII because it really does feel like you already know what will happen, which kinda defeats the whole "having a new story" thing.
 
Akira AC
The movie just feels so "by the numbers" that comes across as .. dull, is not boring, there are cool dogfights and scenes, but the story, the core of the thing comes evidently as made by corporate guidelines to make marketing more profitable (the necessity of having BB-8 as an alternative to R2-D2 to have a larger catalogue to sell toys and stuff, lots of people will want that for christmas, and they wrote BB-8 to be likeable enough to be marketable, which is common for Disney).

Aside that, the movie feels so "safe", so afraid of doing something new or original or interesting that could give the audience some sense of intrigue or wonder, there is nothing like that on VII because it really does feel like you already know what will happen, which kinda defeats the whole "having a new story" thing.
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One thing I find good to remember about Episode VII is, as much as it's a continuation of a beloved franchise for those of us familiar with the original trilogy, it's also acting as a jumping off point for a whole new generation of Star Wars fans. The similarities to the original's story arc are undoubtedly intentional, and likely tied to this.

BB-8 doesn't feel solely like an introduction for marketing purposes - it's been thirty years. It'd be more unbelievable that the only droids that have been of importance in the Rebel/Resistance history books are the R2 and 3PO. That was one of the major issues I had with the original trilogy, really; Lucas' insistence that both of them be a part of every big event.

"Likeable enough to be marketable" is hardly a Disney-unique trait, and really, isn't a bad idea for any company wanting to introduce a robot protagonist.
 
Went to see the movie a 2nd time today and brought the family along with me. Seeing it a second time allowed to focus a bit more in detail on some of the stuff that's going on.

In the final fight between Kylo Ren and Finn/Rey it's so obvious that Kylo is exhausted both mentally and physically from the previous happenings. So he's hurt, confused and fighting with one hand. He doesn't go all out against Rey either because he senses an opportunity to turn her rather than kill her. After seeing it for a second time, the whole fight is even so much more epic.

I'm still not sure wether Finn is also force-sensitive or just good with weapons.

The only gripe I have with the movie is that at the second part is a bit too compressed time-wise, might have been better with a bit slower pace and 20 minutes extra.

But seeing it a second time made me like it even more. :D

My youngest one (son) absolutely loved it, though there were one or two scary bits for him. My oldest (daughter) didn't like it all, especially the bit where Han was killed.
 
ImaRobot
Is Kylo Ren the padawan that Luke took under his wing, that fell to the dark side and pushed Luke into his self-made exile?
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That part made very little sense to me. Luke knows that it's possible to cross over from the Dark Side to the Light - after all, his father did it, and Ren himself feels the temptation to cross back - so why does he run and hide at the first sign of trouble? Every potential good that he can work in the galaxy is squandered by his childish actions. Given the weakness of the Jedi Order following Revenge of the Sith, Luke allows the Dark Side to be the dominant force in the galaxy.

The whole thing feels like a contrivance based on fan service and Mark Hammill's limited availability.
 
prisonermonkeys
That part made very little sense to me. Luke knows that it's possible to cross over from the Dark Side to the Light - after all, his father did it, and Ren himself feels the temptation to cross back - so why does he run and hide at the first sign of trouble? Every potential good that he can work in the galaxy is squandered by his childish actions. Given the weakness of the Jedi Order following Revenge of the Sith, Luke allows the Dark Side to be the dominant force in the galaxy.

The whole thing feels like a contrivance based on fan service and Mark Hammill's limited availability.
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Now I'm confused. I really don't know who to believe when it comes to the force. You, or Yoda..

"A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph! Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless!"

Perhaps Luke exiled himself to better prepare for the future ? Meaning, he perhaps saw Ren and the big hologram guy as being more powerful than he could ever imagine, so going to the original jedi temple to further study the force was the best option for future force balancing.
 
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jimipitbull
Now I'm confused. I really don't know who to believe when it comes to the force. You, or Yoda..
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What's your point? Luke gives up the moment things get difficult, and runs and hides on a vaguely-defined mission.

It might inconsistent with what Yoda says, but that's the point of Return of the Jedi. Previously, the only understanding was that once you crossed over to the Dark Side, that was it. Vader proves that wrong by crossing back over. Luke, who was quite literally the only witness to this, apparently made no attempt at persuading his nephew to rejoin the Light Side, which is made even more bizarre given that the prequel trilogy showed Anakin's descent into darkness as being both gradual and stemming from hamartia rather than "he's evil".

So Luke apparently made no attempt to save his nephew, and then ran and hid when the inevitable happened. But who cares about obvious plot holes and breaking character when you can have a lens flare?
 
prisonermonkeys
What's your point? Luke gives up the moment things get difficult, and runs and hides on a vaguely-defined mission.

It might inconsistent with what Yoda says, but that's the point of Return of the Jedi. Previously, the only understanding was that once you crossed over to the Dark Side, that was it. Vader proves that wrong by crossing back over. Luke, who was quite literally the only witness to this, apparently made no attempt at persuading his nephew to rejoin the Light Side, which is made even more bizarre given that the prequel trilogy showed Anakin's descent into darkness as being both gradual and stemming from hamartia rather than "he's evil".

So Luke apparently made no attempt to save his nephew, and then ran and hid when the inevitable happened. But who cares about obvious plot holes and breaking character when you can have a lens flare?
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The point being, he didn't give up. He left a map to his location, so he obviously wanted someone to find him at some stage.

You don't know that he didn't try and persuade Ren. It might have been that he would have had to destroy him at that stage. Ren is/was not yet a sith, so Luke would have known that there was a higher power, most probably a sith lord pulling strings. Easiest way to find the sith lord is going to be through Ren. Better the devil you know, so to speak.

There are plot holes in your plot holes, no lense flare needed.
 
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jimipitbull
Ren is/was not yet a sith, so Luke would have known that there was a higher power, most probably a sith lord pulling strings. Easiest way to find the sith lord is going to be through Ren.
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And how, exactly, is he going to find that Sith Lord sitting on his backside for thirty years?

Sure, he can leave clues to his location, but why keep it secret from Leia? By sending Dameron, Finn and Rey, she completely ruined his plan because they found him first and Luke never found the Sith Lord.
 
prisonermonkeys
And how, exactly, is he going to find that Sith Lord sitting on his backside for thirty years?

Sure, he can leave clues to his location, but why keep it secret from Leia? By sending Dameron, Finn and Rey, she completely ruined his plan because they found him first and Luke never found the Sith Lord.
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We simply don't know the exact reason for Lukes disappearance or what happened beforehand and afterwards. Did he chicken out? Was he forced to flee because he was almost beaten by a gang of would-be Sith lords led by Ren (what happened to those anyway?)? Or did he foresee there would be an awakening and simply waited for the awakened one to come to him? Is Rey related to him or not? The story could still go in any direction at this point. Just accept that we don't know the whole story yet. There is no way to verify any assumption whatsoever at this moment in time, so I wouldn't put my money on any of your (or my) assumptions being even remotely true.
 
prisonermonkeys
And how, exactly, is he going to find that Sith Lord sitting on his backside for thirty years?

Sure, he can leave clues to his location, but why keep it secret from Leia? By sending Dameron, Finn and Rey, she completely ruined his plan because they found him first and Luke never found the Sith Lord.
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Rey just handed Luke the one thing that Ren really wants to get his hands on. Oh, and that Sith Lord, well apparently he wants to speak with Rey.

Think the Sith Lord do you, his lonely apprentice perhaps. Figure out Luke's plan, that quote, another one bites the dust. (Another one bites the dust.) The other one just bites from a long time ago.

"Luke, when gone am I... the last of the Jedi will you be. Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke. There is... another... Sky... walker."
 
Moving on... more of a speculation than a spoiler

The force is strong with Poe's bloodline - he has some serious piloting skills, much better skills than we have seen from Luke or Anakin. So, lets say that Luke and Poe's mum had a fling. Rey could be Poe's step sister.

IMG_0118-700x326.jpg
 
Did this effectively retcon Midichloirans with the way Maz described the Force? If so I have never been more happy with a retcon in a film before.

I'm still calming down after the initial viewing and I'm definitely going to see it again tomorrow (perhaps even Thursday as well), but it felt like a Star Wars movie all over again much like the original trilogy. I was perfectly fine with all of the callbacks to the originals as well; it all felt incredibly familiar, and as a jumping off point I'm okay with that as well because new viewers are welcomed to the (new) franchise in a way where nothing is really lost in translation, and veterans are eased back into things after Episodes I-III.

There is one thing that has me thinking at the moment and it's Kylo's makeshift vigil to Vader and his undying loyalty to "finish what he started."

He... he does realize Vader eventually undermined (and killed) the Emperor, right? And that he eventually resided with the Light? So if he's finishing what he started... is he going to ultimately destroy the First Order from within once he comes to the realization that he's being exploited?

Also, Stormtroopers still can't hit a damn thing. :lol:
 
My opinion is, we get a "directors cut" next Christmas on blu ray.

You know, to tide Disney over.

This cut will have the additional scenes/minutes that should have been in place when I saw the film on Thursday last week.

It will help to flesh out bits of character and story development that I found lacking.

Just who are Reys parents?................

I loved it and was irked by it in almost equal measures, by the way.

:irked:👍
 
VEXD
Just who are Reys parents?................
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Two more movies in this trilogy. All that may come to light eventually. In the mean time, I hear that the official book for this movie has some extra tid-bits in it. For those that don't want to read it, I'm sure someone will put a summary up shortly.
 
So I've seen it again and I have a question:

Unless I misheard the spoiler review Jeremy Jahns did he says Phasma and San Tekka are still alive? How?

I'm almost certain Kylo killed Tekka when he brutally down-slashed him, and as for Phasma... she was dumped in a trash compactor. That was on the Starkiller base. That exploded.

Also, Starkiller. I didn't catch onto that the first time around.
 
Terronium-12
So I've seen it again and I have a question:

Unless I misheard the spoiler review Jeremy Jahns did he says Phasma and San Tekka are still alive? How?

I'm almost certain Kylo killed Tekka when he brutally down-slashed him, and as for Phasma... she was dumped in a trash compactor. That was on the Starkiller base. That exploded.

Also, Starkiller. I didn't catch onto that the first time around.
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Phasma has already been confirmed for Ep VIII, so hopefully they explain her escape there. As far ask Tekka, no idea.
 
R1600Turbo
Oh please, there was like one flare in the whole movie.
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Indeed.

Instead, it seems like light saber heat haze is Abrahms' favorite new effect. :D

Terronium-12
So I've seen it again and I have a question:

Unless I misheard the spoiler review Jeremy Jahns did he says Phasma and San Tekka are still alive? How?

I'm almost certain Kylo killed Tekka when he brutally down-slashed him, and as for Phasma... she was dumped in a trash compactor. That was on the Starkiller base. That exploded.

Also, Starkiller. I didn't catch onto that the first time around.
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Considering how ineffectual Kylo's weapon was at killing Finn, anything is possible.

I think the "crudeness" of Kylo's light saber was intentionally written in to allow for these sorts of things.

So... Uh... about Han... coming back as a Platyborg?




 
Well ummm.....

Skip to 20:30....EDIT:Wait nevermind he says "curses" srry for almost giving you a heart attack
 

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