StarCraft 2 - Season 7 is live. Someday I'll ladder, honest

  • Thread starter Thread starter Azuremen
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Neither of you play Zerg and it is showing. Zerg macro just works completely differently, and you will often float resources for timings, like Broodlords. Which normally come out at around 17 minutes I'd say. Which means your mech pushes are incredibly late and you are not doing enough harass to scare them into making other units.

Though everyone at Silver and Gold has pretty bad macro anyhow.
 
I'll try and post a replay of it. I think I killed his spawning pool twice, denied him from getting a forth up (while I had 4-5). To be fair I could have played better and I made a few mistakes, but its kinda annoying how someone can average 6k unspent resources and still get up...

Need. More. Practice. And I should have scouted better...

I'll still be in the next GSL season though, as long as they only do kinda sucky 3 gate robos...
 
I've actually been fooling around with zerg against A.I., though I've only played about 15 games. I have gotten to being at 10 mins floating 3k, to 10 mins floating 500-1000 mins, and gas for mutas. But I know right now about 40-50 apm average is not enough to play zerg near competancy. I may start playing random in 4v4 to practice as other races, so I dont get killed all the time if I was 1v1'ing

I find that a zerg who does not go for mutas in silver is rare, so I always play defensive, make turrets, and hold a squad of marines in my base for rapid response. once the mutas are out of the way, I usually have an adequate force for a push.

In personal news, my TvP has fallen away quite badly. I have lost about 10 in a row, going for Marine/Maruder, with late-ish medivacs and ghosts. I am seriously getting (excuse me for this) roflstomped. my main issue is response time to attacks and consequently losing the first engagement, and semi fear of 4 gates. I usually end up expanding just as the 4 gate hits, thus losing the expo, or if no 4 gate, expanding way behind the opponent. I just end up raging at myself for playing badly. It's sad that this used to be my best matchup 4 weeks ago, now it's my worse by far (and selecting a worst from me is difficult enough).

I have had a game balace thought recently, that Mutalisks should lose 25 of their 125 HP, making them less effective against protoss en mass, whilst still retaining their harrasment unit status. Any thoughts?
 
granturismite
I have had a game balace thought recently, that Mutalisks should lose 25 of their 125 HP, making them less effective against protoss en mass, whilst still retaining their harrasment unit status. Any thoughts?
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No, that isn't the issue here at all, and it would just make them even worse against Marines.

Just start practicing 1 rax expand against Protoss and simply drop 3 bunkers and have SCVs ready to go for repair when the Protoss pushes out.
 
Muta's take 1100 shots to kill a stalker anyway. Get a sentry with guardian shield in your little stalker ball and no muta wants to attack that ****.

A good Muta player is brutal in 2v2 though..
 
Casio
Muta's take 1100 shots to kill a stalker anyway. Get a sentry with guardian shield in your little stalker ball and no muta wants to attack that ****.
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Umm. Mutas eventually become cost effective against Stalkers, assuming you've made Zealots to deal with the Zerglings.
 
Azuremen
Umm. Mutas eventually become cost effective against Stalkers, assuming you've made Zealots to deal with the Zerglings.
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I was mainly thinking about the early-mid game, maybe 8-12 mutas.

By the time the Zerg player reaches a critical number of mutas, shouldn't the toss have a sufficient amount of death-ball to just go and kill the zerg? Particularly as Protoss ground unit upgrades should be much ahead of Zerg Air Upgrades.

Also saw this image the other day. Which I thought was kinda interesting. WHERE ARE ALL THE BRONZE ZERGZ AT.

BQUO8.jpg
 
Eh, you go to kill the zerg and lose whole base. Just watch high level games, I swear every time a Zerg goes Mutas it turns into a base race.

And there are no Bronze zergs because they gave up because its less intuitive than Terran or Protoss and its the only race you don't play in the campaign, so even less familiar to them.
 
Zerg requires micro that i'm not accustomed to. So, I actually am impressed when I watch a pro Zerg player play.
 
Blackbird.
Zerg requires micro that i'm not accustomed to. So, I actually am impressed when I watch a pro Zerg player play.
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Zerg actually doesn't require that much micro at all, in terms of combat units. But it really is key to get the injects timings down.
 
Yeah i'm not talking about combat. I'm talking about microing your macro. :lol:
 
Casio
Zerg actually doesn't require that much micro at all, in terms of combat units. But it really is key to get the injects timings down.
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Well, Muta micro, ling control, using Infestors, Queens against air, etc. There is a lot of micro involved. And macro. And a lot of understanding where to engage and where not to engage.
 
I have been playing a lot of random Team Monobattles (one offensive unit for the entire game, in 4v4). I really respect good infestor play, because it is quite difficult to do well. Muta control is fairly easy for me in comparison, becuase they are so quick. if you see trouble, run, if not, kill everything. But for me the hardest part is injecting (or, more precisly, remembering). Playing with lings only requires alot of injects, and economy management
 
granturismite
I have been playing a lot of random Team Monobattles (one offensive unit for the entire game, in 4v4). I really respect good infestor play, because it is quite difficult to do well. Muta control is fairly easy for me in comparison, becuase they are so quick. if you see trouble, run, if not, kill everything. But for me the hardest part is injecting (or, more precisly, remembering). Playing with lings only requires alot of injects, and economy management
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For me it's the injections, getting used to larvae, and the necessity to expand fast and often.
 
granturismite
I have been playing a lot of random Team Monobattles (one offensive unit for the entire game, in 4v4). I really respect good infestor play, because it is quite difficult to do well. Muta control is fairly easy for me in comparison, becuase they are so quick. if you see trouble, run, if not, kill everything. But for me the hardest part is injecting (or, more precisly, remembering). Playing with lings only requires alot of injects, and economy management
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Good Muta control is more than just engage or not. It is the constantly poking at your opponents base without losing any while maintaining your macro and expanding, spreading creep, injecting, and so on. Lots of people can keep mutas alive, but they only poke once a minute. If you watch pros, the Mutas almost never stop moving around and they are quite pro- active with them.

As for injects, all my Queens go on hotkey 4, hatches on 5, and I the back button on my mouse is backspace, so I just bounce around using that after hit 4 and hold V and click hatches.
 
I just put all my Queens on separate hotkeys and do it that way. But I'm hardcore.
 
yeah man...you hardCAW! I just go queens on 3, hatcheson 4, and hit v+shift+click hatches on the minimap, or where I am looking if at a base

And with mutas, like all harrasment and engagements, you're supposed to macro behind the action. But, point taken, because they're so quick, you have to be doubly quick with macro-ing

Just found out that season 5 is closing, and season 6 is opening soon-ish. Hopefully, the 1v1 map pool changes. I would like them to lose Xel'naga caverns, and bring in Terminus (SE or RE). I dont see them bringing in Terminus, but with the huge balance complaints for XC, that may get taken out. I find that defending your natural is much harder there than any other map.
 
granturismite
Just found out that season 5 is closing, and season 6 is opening soon-ish. Hopefully, the 1v1 map pool changes. I would like them to lose Xel'naga caverns, and bring in Terminus (SE or RE). I dont see them bringing in Terminus, but with the huge balance complaints for XC, that may get taken out. I find that defending your natural is much harder there than any other map.
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They should keep Xel'Naga so I can continue to demolish Zergs on it. Really they should take it out, but the balance issues haven't changed since it was put in Season 1, so I don't know why they'd take it out now if they haven't before, it's also a relatively good beginners map.

I do like 2 player maps though so would like to see more, particularly larger ones. Get rid of Arid Plateau, that map is disgracefully bad. Put in Bel'Shir or something.
 
I'm not a fan of Bel'shir personally, but I haven't really seen it in winter that much (I don't watch the GSL). Is it better than the older, non winter version? I could probably warm to Daybreak in the map pool, especially as that is the frontrunner for non Blizzard maps in the map pool

I dont mind Arid Plateau. For me, it's a Xel'naga Caverns with easier expansions. It's ok for lower leagues, but Zerg must both love and hate the natural. Its so vunerable to run arounds by both hellions and speedlings. I have ended a couple of matches there in 7-8mins with 4 hellions from a reactor hellion FE. most of it comes down to bad splitting of drones, and bad ling surrounds, but it's very effective in the low leauges. I get this too on Metalopolis, but zergs seem to be more wary of this style on this map.
 
granturismite
I'm not a fan of Bel'shir personally, but I haven't really seen it in winter that much (I don't watch the GSL). Is it better than the older, non winter version? I could probably warm to Daybreak in the map pool, especially as that is the frontrunner for non Blizzard maps in the map pool
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I think Winter is the same as regular. But doesn't have the gold bases at the extremities.

I dont mind Arid Plateau. For me, it's a Xel'naga Caverns with easier expansions. It's ok for lower leagues, but Zerg must both love and hate the natural. Its so vunerable to run arounds by both hellions and speedlings. I have ended a couple of matches there in 7-8mins with 4 hellions from a reactor hellion FE. most of it comes down to bad splitting of drones, and bad ling surrounds, but it's very effective in the low leauges. I get this too on Metalopolis, but zergs seem to be more wary of this style on this map.
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The thing I dislike about Arid Plateau is how the natural can be attacked from two sides, and one of the sides has trees so close to the mineral line, it makes it (for me) really hard to defend if you do any kind of FE, cause even if you bunker up they can just attack from the other side, and if you bunker up closer to the natural they just walk up your main. Xel'naga has a similiar problem, but in my opinion isn't nearly as bad.
 
Honestly, the biggest problems with the maps are the high yields. Arid is a bit poor, but Xel Caverns is pretty well rounded I feel, and I play Protoss...

And honestly, you guys are all in lower leagues, so am I. Balance concerns aren't really a huge issue in my opinion, most players just make a ton of mistakes at our levels of play.
 
Azuremen
And honestly, you guys are all in lower leagues, so am I. Balance concerns aren't really a huge issue in my opinion, most players just make a ton of mistakes at our levels of play.
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Yeah I'm not saying Arid is totally imbalanced, but it's just not as fun for me personally as say Shakurus or Tal'darim, I enjoy mid/longish length games a lot more and I think maps like Arid encourage 1-base play. I much prefer to play on maps with a ramped or somewhat easier to defend natural, or at the very least no stupid side passage to your mineral line with line of sight blockers.
 
Casio
Yeah I'm not saying Arid is totally imbalanced, but it's just not as fun for me personally as say Shakurus or Tal'darim, I enjoy mid/longish length games a lot more and I think maps like Arid encourage 1-base play. I much prefer to play on maps with a ramped or somewhat easier to defend natural, or at the very least no stupid side passage to your mineral line with line of sight blockers.
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So build an Engineering bay and some depots to block it. That is what I do with pylons and a gateway on Xel and it works fairly well for me.
 
If any Terrans out there want to see some awesome standard Terran play, watch Jjakji's games in the GSL last night, forget the results, it's just beautiful to watch. New favourite player for me.
 
pafdojkfdsjt

That 3-base 12-gate thing was so silly.

One of the reasons I hate this whole "We need moar bigger maps" idea is because it makes it so much easier for Z/P to get away with super-econ moves against T because of the production lag and how slow T units are ;-;

Also, getting past a 3rd on entombed is killing me in TvZ. No idea what to do on that map because every expansion pulls you away from another entrance into 3rd/nat and leaves you more vulnerable, and if you sit and turtle until you have a nice PF/Turret defense to cover one entrance, it's very likely the zerg is already on hive tech.
 
Also, getting past a 3rd on entombed is killing me in TvZ.
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Really? I find taking a third is easiest on Entombed Valley. Although I don't drop nearly as much as I should, maybe the extra units makes defending easier. But you can always wall the extra entrance of with a couple of depots/bunkers.

Anyway, I came across the infamous PvT 1/1/1 build last night on Shakuras. Handled it abysmally, and ended up evacuating 8 probes in my warp prism, and built cannons in the guys base. Turns out warp prisms make it really easy to put cannons in down quickly. Just unload a probe, switch mode to warp in, build cannons and pylons. by the time the cannons are up, the pylons are finished and ready to power the cannons. Ended up losing, but not as bad as I first though.

Next game, another T tries it against me, and I held it almost beautifully, and took a third, and stomped him with a nice deathball.
 
granturismite
Really? I find taking a third is easiest on Entombed Valley. Although I don't drop nearly as much as I should, maybe the extra units makes defending easier. But you can always wall the extra entrance of with a couple of depots/bunkers.
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Third is fine, but its a 4th that's the problem.

I've actually seen it happen a lot to Nada and ForGG while they were streaming as well ;-;

Just feels so awkward trying to take a fourthbase on entombed.

And 1-1-1's are easy to hold with chargelots
 

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