Starting and Parking in NASCAR: Good or Bad?

[Earth]

In recent years some teams have qualified for NASCAR races only to start them and then park the car around the time of the first pit stop.

This way they pick up a pay check but do not have to spend the $20,000 on tires it takes to finish a race and fuel.

Some people say these are just struggling teams that need to do this to stay alive and keep people employed.

Others say this is a disgrace.

When Dave Blaney headed to the garage in his No. 66 Prism Motorsports Toyota after 43 laps, NASCAR officials were waiting.

Three laps earlier, Michael McDowell drove the other Prism Motorsports car to the garage. The final race report concluded that both cars had engine failures.

So why did the sanctioning body confiscate the No. 66 car before the engine had even cooled down?

“Because they can,” said Bill Henderson, crew chief of the No. 66 team and general manager for Prism Motorsports.

Henderson, who has just two cars for the team, was told the car will not be returned until next Saturday — long after qualifying is over. However, the primary car has the basics of racing — swaybar, shocks and springs — that the team simply can’t afford to duplicate on the backup car. Without those necessities, Henderson will not be able to race.

Sprint Cup Series director John Darby said he hopes to perform the inspection at Las Vegas in order to return the car to the team in a timely fashion, but that’s hardly a guarantee

Which begs the question: Is NASCAR attempting to send the message to “start and park” teams — those that enter a race primarily to collect a check and don't always try to finish — not to stink up their show?

Prism Motorsports wasn’t the only team that ended their day prematurely Sunday at Fontana.

Joe Nemechek initially parked his car on Lap 27 then mysteriously returned to the track a short time later and ran an additional 27 laps before a "rear gear" failed.

Boris Said also went into the garage early, came back out, and then disappeared.

Even Aric Almirola, who was driving the No. 09 Phoenix Racing entry that won at Talladega last year, ended up in the garage after 34 laps with an engine failure.

But Prism might be in a different situation.

“It’s one thing to try to race each week,” said the manager of a team that generally finishes among the 40-somethings who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “But I think doing two (teams) to get a check isn’t going to sit very well with NASCAR.”

Prism Motorsports pocketed $160,070 for Sunday’s combined effort of 83 laps. Matt Kenseth, who finished seventh, ran the full 500 miles and earned a $161,696 pay day.

 

[Ardius]

Heh, reminds me of the old tactics by Arrows in F1 2002. Intentionally failing to qualify to save money.
Well, I guess its a question of where does the enjoyment for the fans and value for money begin and end? If featuring teams that are barely racing is taking away possible grid slots for better-funded teams then they should be kicked out in favour of the better teams.
But then again, are these teams really making a profit from this? In other words, are they scams?

Where does the money come from? Why are they paid money for not finishing?
If a team asked Bernie for money for not finishing a race he would shut the door in their face.

And to answer the poll, I guess I'd say its wrong, because its going against the sole point of motorsport - to provide competition. Its also possibly depriving the fans of entertainment of seeing more competitive teams.

 

[Earth]

If featuring teams that are barely racing is taking away possible grid slots for better-funded teams then they should be kicked out in favour of the better teams.

This is a legitimate concern. Every race the top 35 in points are locked in and guaranteed a spot. That leaves 8 spots up for grabs in qualifying (43 cars start each race) to usually around 11 drivers, meaning 3 have to go home and dont get paid.

Of those 11 drivers you have well funded well intentioned drivers like Max Papis and Scott Speed, who are there to run the full race distance. Then you have Start and Park guys like Joe Nemecheck who happens to be a good qualifier that could knock the more deserving cars/drivers out of the field just so he can start the race and park.

But then again, are these teams really making a profit from this? In other words, are they scams?

I never thought about this. This is another legitimate concern. Maybe the found out that they could be making alot of money for their pockets simply by just focusing on qualifying setup and qualifying for the races and then starting and parking. Instead of taking the money to fund the car further where they can run full race distances they pocket it? Thats a scam and I hope NASCAR investigates them.

Where does the money come from? Why are they paid money for not finishing?
If a team asked Bernie for money for not finishing a race he would shut the door in their face.

There is a set prize money for all 43 starters. If you start the race and park and finish dead last you still get a paycheck.

According to the article I posted it looks like NASCAR is going to start clamping down on them though

And to answer the poll, I guess I'd say its wrong, because its going against the sole point of motorsport - to provide competition. Its also possibly depriving the fans of entertainment of seeing more competitive teams.

I agree. I'd rather see less cars in the race then a full grid with a few start and parkers.

If you dont have the money to run a full race you shouldnt be out there. Hopefully NASCAR institutes some rule where you have to finish a certain portion of the race to get prize money unless you truthfully broke down or crashed. Or perhaps whatever percentage of a race you complete is whatever percentage of the prize money you receive. Finish the whole race and receive 100% of your prize money. Start and park after the first pit stop (around 15% race distance)and you receive 15% of the prize money.

 

[Ian Poole]

It is so wrong it is unbelievable

There are teams of the go and go homers that have bigger budgets than some of the teams that get into the race and they could run the full race distance. They are being prevented, either because their driver is too slow or because a go or go homer with a start and park budget is faster than them.

Dave Blaney is a brilliant example because he qualified 5th i believe, 5TH! And yet his team on't want to run the full distance which could have meant an even bigger payday.

i really hope NASCAR clamp down on this because there are other teams that could do the full race but cannot do so.

 

[Ardius]

There is a set prize money for all 43 starters. If you start the race and park and finish dead last you still get a paycheck.

According to the article I posted it looks like NASCAR is going to start clamping down on them though

Why? Was this an attempt to intice teams to join? Surely they don't need such a system if its a popular sport like NASCAR?
I mean, its the opposite for almost all other motorsports - the teams pay for the priviledge of racing in the series and they make their money back from sponsorship mainly, rather than prize money. And none of that prize money is ever for anyone that doesn't make the podium at least...but maybe this is an American thing like the points-scoring systems in IndyCar? Where everyone gets a point just for taking part?

I think its a bit silly to award everyone money just for racing, it encourages participation but this shouldn't be needed in such a high-coverage sport like NASCAR.

 

[Earth]

Why? Was this an attempt to intice teams to join? Surely they don't need such a system if its a popular sport like NASCAR?
I mean, its the opposite for almost all other motorsports - the teams pay for the priviledge of racing in the series and they make their money back from sponsorship mainly, rather than prize money. And none of that prize money is ever for anyone that doesn't make the podium at least...but maybe this is an American thing like the points-scoring systems in IndyCar? Where everyone gets a point just for taking part?

Heres a good article about prize money in NASCAR

http://www.nascar.com/2004/news/business/07/21/follow_money/

I think its a bit silly to award everyone money just for racing, it encourages participation but this shouldn't be needed in such a high-coverage sport like NASCAR.

This sure is a clash of cultures, lol, I grew up watching racing series where you win prize money and everyone got points, now your saying its silly and teams should be paying to race and only a select few should get points. Thats a big difference

 

[Ardius]

Heres a good article about prize money in NASCAR

http://www.nascar.com/2004/news/business/07/21/follow_money/

This sure is a clash of cultures, lol, I grew up watching racing series where you win prize money and everyone got points, now your saying its silly and teams should be paying to race and only a select few should get points. Thats a big difference

Thanks for the article, good explanation 👍

Indeed, its a different culture entirely. Motorsport in Europe is more of a cut-throat business with very few start up teams and drivers making it past their first race or season. Although this potentially stops young talents making it very far, it also tends to reward those that actually have potential (because a sponsor is having to spend a lot of money, they do want to ensure they are getting their money's worth). Its downside is that it favours "pay-drivers".

I don't really like the American style of giving everyone a badge for taking part. It kind of takes the shine off the higher positions compared to the popular European scoring methods of top 10 or top 8 finishers. Saying that though - its daft, because in racing, every position counts. So I guess its just a preference thing.

 

[Sharky.]

If you can't afford to run an entire race you shouldn't be in the series. Simple as that.

 

[LSX]

I think it's lame, considering the team won't make enough money off three car's start and parking to build one race car. Then if they are wrecked out, what happens? You've got to pay to play, can't afford it don't do it. And it makes the drivers look bad as well. Like they don't want to compete or something, even though it may not be their choice, that's the way I see it.

 

[Pescara for GT5]

When a driver who finishes 43rd and completes 6 laps can earn more money per lap than the winner of the Daytona 500, there is then a problem.

 

[Earth]

Thanks for the article, good explanation 👍

Indeed, its a different culture entirely. Motorsport in Europe is more of a cut-throat business with very few start up teams and drivers making it past their first race or season. Although this potentially stops young talents making it very far, it also tends to reward those that actually have potential (because a sponsor is having to spend a lot of money, they do want to ensure they are getting their money's worth). Its downside is that it favours "pay-drivers".

I don't really like the American style of giving everyone a badge for taking part. It kind of takes the shine off the higher positions compared to the popular European scoring methods of top 10 or top 8 finishers. Saying that though - its daft, because in racing, every position counts. So I guess its just a preference thing.

Didn't Lewis Hamilton want to quit a race last year to save the engine when he was deep in the running order because there was nothing to gain? Thats a downside of only rewarding points to only the top finishers. He was criticized for wanting to "quit" but what did he have to gain?

On the other hand because NASCAR gives all 43 drivers points with each position scoring more then the next drivers and teams are encouraged to go out there and gain as man positions as they can.

A good example is when Jimmie Johnson crashed on lap three at Texas last year with two races to go and holding on to a big points lead. If NASCAR had a European style points system the team and driver would have packed up and gone home. But because every position get points the team spent an hour to fix the car and go back out and pass other cars that had DNFed after Johnson had crashed. As a result Johnson went from 43rd to 38th, a difference of 15 points.

The way NASCAR scores points now puts more emphasis on winning then any other motorsport out there. You could be 500 points in the lead at the end of the 26 race "regular season" but when the playoffs start (the chase) whoever has the most wins is seeded first with the most points. Whoever has the 2nd most wins is seeded 2nd, 10 points behind and so on.
\

 

[Northstar]

I'm not a fan of them. I understand doing what it takes to survive but when you go out there and only run a few laps it really takes away from the sport. It gets really annoying when you consider the fact they are taking spots from upstart teams that are just trying to get experience. For instance if it weren't for the offseason deals(which is another issue I have a problem with) Front Row Motorsports(A team just trying to improve) would have missed the race because of some people just in it for money.

I think the best thing NASCAR could do is make the teams provide proof that they have the funds and equipment to run the entire race.

 

[Cale]

I don't mind it. It gives jobs to people and they aren't going to get sponsors if they aren't at the track anyways.

I guess I'm the only yes?

 

[TS]

If you can't afford to run an entire race you shouldn't be in the series. Simple as that.

This.

There are other teams with funding to run the full race waiting for a spot in the race.

 

[vaporvortice]

If you can't out qualify Dave Blaney who can Q a car into a race 90% of the time then you need to hire Dave Blaney as your driver. Simple as that. But no, ever since team owners started letting sponsors have a say, or dictate, who the driver is then they get what they deserve. A D.N.Q. against a S & P team with a better driver.
Nobody and I mean absolutely nobody wants to run a full race more than Dave Blaney but because he won't play Nascar's game and talk the talk, or sign over his naming rights, etc, etc, then he gets overlooked by sponsors for some reason. I wonder why.
All the sponsors are migrating toward the top 25 teams. Many of those teams now have 3 or 4 major sponsors leaving the the lesser teams to fend for themselves. All I have to say is look for the same practice of S & P in the future, or Nascar only having 30 or so teams.

Nascar brought this on themselves.

 

[Northstar]

If you can't out qualify Dave Blaney who can Q a car into a race 90% of the time then you need to hire Dave Blaney as your driver. Simple as that. But no, ever since team owners started letting sponsors have a say, or dictate, who the driver is then they get what they deserve. A D.N.Q. against a S & P team with a better driver.
Nobody and I mean absolutely nobody wants to run a full race more than Dave Blaney but because he won't play Nascar's game and talk the talk, or sign over his naming rights, etc, etc, then he gets overlooked by sponsors for some reason. I wonder why.
All the sponsors are migrating toward the top 25 teams. Many of those teams now have 3 or 4 major sponsors leaving the the lesser teams to fend for themselves. All I have to say is look for the same practice of S & P in the future, or Nascar only having 30 or so teams.

Nascar brought this on themselves.

The whole sponsorship thing isn't new and isn't unique to NASCAR, it basically effects every form of motorsport especially when the economy is down. Really the only thing that has changed is that there are fewer companies looking to be in motorsports and those that do want the most for their money so they will naturally go for the top teams and the young drivers as they are what sell the best.