Strut Tower Brace: Merits?

[EA11R]

I've been thinking I wanted a strut tower bar for my car (99 Nissan Altima) since it's felt rather... delicate when going over bumps. I found this one on eBay at a good total price of $35, and I want to know: is it worth it, buying a strut tower bar? A quick search of eBay revealed only that bar, sold by a few various people.

I understand the basic physics behind it, and so it should help the car feel more solid, but does it make that much of a difference? And, if it is worth it, is this one any good? And finally, is there any way this could harm my car?

I haven't bought anything for my car up until now, so I may be a bit too uncertain, but I just thought I'd see what GTPlanet think first. Any replies would be appreciated!

 

[Perfect Balance]

I didn't do any research, but assuming a 99 Altima's front suspension is a McPherson strut setup, the strut tower bar should make a clearly noticeable difference, I've felt it personally on multiple cars.

EDIT: Of course, that ebay one probably won't make a huge difference, but a good bar will. Generally it will just feel more solid pulling into entrances and stuff like that, as least from a daily driver standpoint.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Just get a welded 1-piece design, not the screw-type ones. It is much stiffer, and it doesn't come with any niggles like screws and washers:

This one: (1-piece)

Not this one: (3-piece)

 

[Perfect Balance]

For some odd reason, it's difficult to find a solid bar for a car with a McPherson strut suspension.

For cars like your S2000 with a double wishbone setup, the bar becomes nothing more than a chassis stiffening device. In a McPherson strut suspension, the objective of the strut bar is to keep the strut towers from flexing in relation to each other and causing dynamic alignment change, since the strut towers are directly related to any forces acted on the suspension, not just up and down like in a double wishbone setup.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I had a factory bar on my 2000 Sentra SE, and decided one day to drive around the block with it off of the car to see what it felt like. Truly a noticeable difference.

Never installed one on my Miata, since there is little to no benefit to installing one on those cars.

 

[niky]

Actually, it should do well on the Miata, considering how flexy the car is... but since most of the flex is from the middle of the chassis and not the engine bay, the effects won't be as dramatic as the Flyin' Miata butterfly brace.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4538&parentid=0&stocknumber=13-69920 90-97

Wonderful piece of kit. I'd buy a Miata just so I could order one.

While there are no negatives to buying and installing a strutbar (though buying a cheap-ass one with poor rigidity won't do you much good), the big question is... will it address the root cause of your problem? How do you know your Altima's response to bumps is from chassis flex? Could it be from shot shocks? Worn out tie-rods? Bushings? A strut brace does great things, but so does having a generally good suspension underneath.

The best suspension modification you can make for your front-driver is a good rear anti-roll bar. With the generally soft rear tuning of Japanese cars, this does wonders for tightening up the handling. Next is a front anti-roll bar, which ties together the looser end of the McPherson system, and is usually of more benefit than a strut-brace on front-drivers... since your strut towers are closer to the firewall than on rear-drivers.

You can get single piece strutbars for cars that come with them as stock.

 

[EA11R]

So, by the sound of things, budgetbar would make a noticable (if not massive) difference?

I looked all over the place, and it seems that only this bar and a $200 Nismo bar are the ones available for my Altima. Considering that I have very low income, it seems that I'll want that eBay bar. If I can make a noticable improvement in my car for $35 (shipping included), then I would surely want that. Not to mention, I -conveniently- like my car, so perhaps I would even *prefer* a slight change to a drastic one.

Sure, the eBay one doesn't have a fab Nismo logo, but I can do without the fancy if it means I pay 20% Nismo prices. Thanks for the advice!

 

[nk4e]

EA11R, how low of a income?

 

[homeforsummer]

Actually, it should do well on the Miata, considering how flexy the car is... but since most of the flex is from the middle of the chassis and not the engine bay, the effects won't be as dramatic as the Flyin' Miata butterfly brace.

*pic*

Wonderful piece of kit. I'd buy a Miata just so I could order one.

To be honest there are cheaper and simpler ones that probably do the job almost as well on the MX-5. Something more along the lines of this. Frog arms are supposed to be great on MX-5s too and very cheap too.

With regard to cheap strut braces, would a cheap one really be significantly worse than an expensive one? We're not talking about expensive gas dampers or a custom exhaust - a strut brace is essentially a metal tube bolted to each strut and if it's attached correctly then the difference between one that costs $100 say and one at three or more times the price will probably be negligible. Hell, I've read about plenty of people who've made their own in their garage and it's worked a treat.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Sure, the eBay one doesn't have a fab Nismo logo, but I can do without the fancy if it means I pay 20% Nismo prices. Thanks for the advice!

Nismo bar is no different from the factory bar that came on my Sentra SE. Just has a fancy logo on it. I would look around to see if any Altima's came from the factory with a bar installed. (SE models maybe?) You should be able to pick one up cheap and it would do a better job that the eBay bar.

Actually, it should do well on the Miata, considering how flexy the car is... but since most of the flex is from the middle of the chassis and not the engine bay, the effects won't be as dramatic as the Flyin' Miata butterfly brace.

I work for Flyin Miata.

We don't sell a shock tower brace anymore because we don't think it really needs one. The best way to stiffen the chassis on a Miata is to brace up the underside. (Butterfly brace, etc.)

To be honest there are cheaper and simpler ones that probably do the job almost as well on the MX-5. Something more along the lines of this. Frog arms are supposed to be great on MX-5s too and very cheap too.

Frog Arms are half the price, but they stiffen up the front cowl area and are totally different from the butterfly brace. We use the Frog Arms on our V8 swaps.

 

[EA11R]

EA11R, how low of a income?

$5 per hour, working for my dad over the summer.

Nismo bar is no different from the factory bar that came on my Sentra SE. Just has a fancy logo on it. I would look around to see if any Altima's came from the factory with a bar installed. (SE models maybe?) You should be able to pick one up cheap and it would do a better job that the eBay bar.

Hmm. How many other cars is the Altima similar to? I'll try to sniff that out, see if anything comes up.

I work for Flyin Miata.

Awesome. And frog arms are wierd.

 

[niky]

Mhmm... frog-arms... for the guy who just has to brace everything...

There are bars, and there are bars... some cheap knock-offs are actually quite soft... so they prevent tower-flex to a degree, but obviously not as much as better-built bars (better alloy, thicker gauge, whatever) will. Actually... some will flex enough that the tower deflection will be much less than the total flex you can produce on the bar!

That's probably why garage-built ones work well, since the people building them aren't likely to be using paper-thin Chinese tubes.

Yes, anything is better than nothing at all, but IMHO, the extra for a good bar is often worth it... if the NISMO bar is the only one available... heck... go for it.

 

[breakpoint]

On a car where its not going to handle really well unless you spend a ton on the suspension like an altima like that i would say just get the one on ebay there. I have had a few altimas mainly because i really like the KA24 engine, its a great engine. The cars are decent but body roll on them is fairly bad and like i was saying it would just take a load of cash for an altima not to have body roll and handle well. I had ebay suspension on my 94 and it handle fairly well, especially for how much i paid for everything ( CHEAP! ). Go with the cheap one, you will notice the diff i assure you.

 

[Picc84]

I'd say go out and buy it man, Im on a crazy budget with my Integra too, and going out and buying some cheaper stuff, makes me happy. It may not be the best, but you put your cash into it, you got what you paid for, you'll be surprised. I just bought cheap-o used interior parts (although fully jdm parts) Im very happy with the result!

 

[niky]

Body roll? Anti-roll bars are the answer. That and a nice set of shock absorbers. Should be enough for anybody not autocrossing.

 

[breakpoint]

stabilizer bars are a great upgrade for roll but he was asking specifically about the strut tower braces, which will help with body roll and overall chassis stiffness. Also his car doesn't have shocks, it has struts. If he gets them at a local auto store i would suggest Monroe Sensa-Trac struts for it. They have a tapered groove machined into the inside housing. While the piston is in the groove, a soft, comfortable ride is achieved, but when the piston travels above or below the groove, during rough roads or severe handling, the valving stiffens up. Very good shocks for comfort and handling when it comes to something that is not extreme like coil overs etc. Those alone will make your car like new again but with very good control and cornering.

 

[niky]

All cars have shocks. His are just inside the struts. Small matter of terminology. Sensa-Trac? Those available for the Alty?

 

[Perfect Balance]

which will help with body roll

No they won't, unless you're confusing chassis flex with body roll.

Also, getting shocks like that isn't a good idea. What happens is you end up with a shock that is never going to match the spring rate of the car, and you end up with the springs being under damped at one point, and then over damped at the other. Maybe it's fine for driving around and hauling groceries, but it's not an "upgrade," especially not over oem units assuming they aren't blown.

EDIT: Haha, you copied and pasted Monroe's description for that shock exactly as they've got it written. It almost sounds like they're clueless as to how their shocks work in the first place. So much for professionalism.

 

[breakpoint]

Yeah i did copy and paste it so i wouldn't have to try to type it all out, whats the problem with that. Also its not a "bad idea" to replace his stock ones with the monroes. They are meant to be a stock replacement but just offer a little more. They made a hell of a difference on my 70 nova when i put them on it, especially the BODY ROLL. Should i go ahead when i get home from the shop and scan my ase's and send you a .gif?

 

[Perfect Balance]

Yeah i did copy and paste it so i wouldn't have to try to type it all out, whats the problem with that.

Nothing, i was just pointing out that Monroe's description sounds like they're clueless as to what a proper damper is meant to do.

Also its not a "bad idea" to replace his stock ones with the monroes. They are meant to be a stock replacement but just offer a little more.

I'm sure they took the time to test each application on a shock dyno using factory springs to make sure the damping is correct for that particular spring rate. Right?

Well Nissan did, I'd trust their shocks a bit more.

They made a hell of a difference on my 70 nova when i put them on it, especially the BODY ROLL.

Well why didn't you say so?
This is what you wrote:

he was asking specifically about the strut tower braces, which will help with body roll

Though technically you're still wrong about the shocks, because they do nothing to reduce body roll, they simply slow down the rate at which it might happen. So in quick turns, the car simply rolls slower, so you exit the corner/stop turning before it completely compresses, but in a turn long enough for the suspension to take a set, it would roll just as much as it would on stock or blown springs.

Should i go ahead when i get home from the shop and scan my ase's and send you a .gif?

Don't bother, ASE certification doesn't really do much for a tech, especially at a dealership. In an independent shop it might be enough to earn you some customers, but the certification is not much more than a set of bragging rights. As you're using them now.

I'm a tech as well, I know.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

They made a hell of a difference on my 70 nova when i put them on it

Key bits here being 1970 and Nova.

 

[a112]

Any strut bar will to the difference,especially if the car's chassis isn't best.
Ie. most common cheap type DIY strut bar here that mounts on F128/Yugo Chassis cars costs probably about 2$ Painted.
Two pieces of wheel distancer from a Yugo and one iron bar would do the trick,car would be much more stable.

 

[EA11R]

I bought the eBay bar, and recieved it after 2 days! I like ordering local stuff!

I'll install it tomorrow with a friend, and tell you about the results. I know, I don't need help at all, but I mainly just want to hang out and show off what I bought for cheap.

And Breakpoint: Why do you like the KA24? I've certainly come to respect mine as a pretty good engine, but I can't say I'm a fan. Either way, kudos on buying a '94; Please say it had the HUD, even if you have to lie.

 

[Joey D]

This is probably common sense but have a torque wrench handy for installing the bar because you have to torque the strut nuts to a certain lb./ft. When I installed my anti-mushroom guards on the Cooper I needed one, I just went to AutoZone and through their loan a tool programme got one.

 

[breakpoint]

And Breakpoint: Why do you like the KA24? I've certainly come to respect mine as a pretty good engine, but I can't say I'm a fan. Either way, kudos on buying a '94; Please say it had the HUD, even if you have to lie.

I really liked my KA because of a few reasons. For one it made decent torque since it was mainly designed for trucks. And second was its a pretty reliable engine in general, well in stock trim it is.

And PB, you need to go to another shop to work if you don't or won't get a raise for having all your ase's. When i was at the Ford dealership i got 4 more a book hour for getting mine so its worth having, and easier to get a job for better pay. 20 an hour to 24 an hour makes a big difference when you look at your years earnings.

 

[Perfect Balance]

And PB, you need to go to another shop to work if you don't or won't get a raise for having all your ase's. When i was at the Ford dealership i got 4 more a book hour for getting mine so its worth having, and easier to get a job for better pay. 20 an hour to 24 an hour makes a big difference when you look at your years earnings.

I think over here they look at it in a more logical way. It's not like you instantly become a better tech just because you have more certification, so why do you deserve more money for passing a test?

Maybe it's just the area around here or something but a lot of techs I know simply don't bother because they don't gain anything.

Either way I don't plan to be a tech for the rest of my life, so they won't do me much good in the long run.

 

[EA11R]

I really liked my KA because of a few reasons. For one it made decent torque since it was mainly designed for trucks. And second was its a pretty reliable engine in general, well in stock trim it is.

Yeah, those are the reasons I rather like my engine; the 4-gear slushbox never feels too little, and the car survived its previous owner, so that's incredible. In addition, my car feels a bit faster than the 8.9 0-60 time it should officially have, and it gets 26 mpg under fast driving, so I'm amazed by those things. But it still just lacks a certain passion, a certain playfulnesss that would make me a fan. As it is, I'm merely content with having what seems the best of the breed.

So, I installed the bar, and OH MY GOD everything was much more than I expected. Installing was a huge hassle, and the dynamic gains of the car were huge.

Installing, it seemed that it was low-quality in every imaginable way. I installed the left 'disc' first, and it sneakily interfered with a little mount underneath it. I closed the hood to check for clearance, and viola, the bit that holds on to the bar is bent so that the screw wouldn't go through it. Worse yet, it was delicate enough that I could easily bend it back into place with a screwdriver. Uh-oh. Next it was time to install the other disc, which was warped hugely. I couldn't get all three screws on unless I did them in a specific order, and then screwed them down, forcing the plate to be flat. It got on, nice and snug, and this time when I closed the hood to check for clearance (these things look scary-tall), nothing went wrong! So, in the bar went, no real issues or troubles there. Closing the hood to check for clearance this time (It was a bloody skyscraper by this time!) took, it felt, a little more effort than it should have. Reopening the hood gave a terrific THWUNK as the hood unbent around the bar and tried to leap into the sky. Fabulous. Screw it, I paid for it, let's see if it feels any different to drive.

"Let the placebo effects begin," I say as I think I feel a difference backing down my driveway just enough so I could close the garage door behind me. But, when I reached the road, I could tell, I felt a difference. The front wheels feel so much less independent of one another, it feels as if something has been pulled really, really tight under the hood. I swerved wildly basically the whole way to my dad's house, attracting a lot of attention, but I don't care. The car feels so different, so much better than before. In the moment after changing direction, grip used to vanish as the wheels squirmed away from the road, but now it just doesn't. It's bloody fantastic, and I absolutely love it.

The part is a piece of crap, I see, but what a lovely piece of crap it is! Also, I have a question: The bar is shaped like this:

(

I mounted it with the bulge facing up, molesting the hood, because that's how I've always seen it. But the way it attaches to the mounts, it can be mounted at any angle. So I was thinking, would there be any reason not to rotate it more horizontally so the hood would fit above it? I've never seen it done like that, but I can't think of why I shouldn't.

Even with it in its current hood-bothering state, thugh, I definitely recommend it. It's possibly the best $40 I have ever spent on something other than a video game. In fact, it makes the front of the car feel so good, I now want to see if I could search for a similar brace to go in the trunk! I am a monster and I must be stopped.

 

[niky]

That's the correct way to mount it, if it's bent (bars usually aren't)... as the force acting on the bar from the towers becomes a compression force.

Mount it upside down and the force turns into a bending force.

It might not be a big deal... worst you can do is try it and see what happens.

 

[breakpoint]

That's the correct way to mount it, if it's bent (bars usually aren't)... as the force acting on the bar from the towers becomes a compression force.

Mount it upside down and the force turns into a bending force.

It might not be a big deal... worst you can do is try it and see what happens.

Nailed the answer perfect. Since your not doing roadracing then like Niky said you can flip it and see if it bends under normal type driving, which i doubt.If nothing else get a straight piece welded across the bended gap to keep it from bending any, and you will still have clearance. This is why cheap parts are cheap parts, fitment. Especially applies on things such as fenders and hoods etc. Never buy those on the cheap or you will more than likely spend more money in the long run getting the body lines and gaps fixed properly.

 

[mustangGT90210]

I am a monster and I must be stopped.

You, my friend, have just been bitten by the "Mod Bug'