Sub-3 Around Nurburgring Nordschleife

[nijalninja]

I dont quite know if this thread should be here or in the Time Trials forum, but I am just curious about something...

... Has anyone ever managed to complete the whole Nurburgring Nordschleife track in under 3 minutes (legitimately)? I have managed to do it in under 4 minutes before, and I know from the SRT VGT Tomahawk X Seasonal that it can be done in around 3:10.xxx by hardcore drivers, but has anyone ever done a Sub-3? And if not: What is the fastest anyone has ever done it?

Video links would also be nice if these laps were ever recorded.

 

[Thematic]

Have you watched a 3:10? If you are 0.1 seconds faster per corner that's still not under 3.

 

[ImmalovemaGTR]

Now that's a good question. But I don't think so, as that would go beyond human's reaction time I think.

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

The 3:10 was done with stock settings and no Skid Recovery Force, so I would guess a good tune and SRF could make under 3 minutes doable.

 

[nijalninja]

I just wonder of there are like some super drivers out there that just never get noticed, and I was wondering if perhaps one of them has done one before?

 

[LeGeNd-1]

With the cars in the game currently, I don't think so. If someone manages to hybrid the Red Bull's fan + Tomahawk's active aero/DRS + X's engine + nitro the final straight then it might be doable. In any case, I don't think human reflexes allow a laptime much faster than 3 minutes flat or thereabouts.

 

[FussyFez]

Interesting thread.

The 3:10 was done with stock settings and no Skid Recovery Force, so I would guess a good tune and SRF could make under 3 minutes doable.

Considering the above, I'd also say sub 3 minutes is possible, but it would be very close to the absolute limit.

 

[Pseudopod]

Now that's a good question. But I don't think so, as that would go beyond human's reaction time I think.

True, but you don't need reaction time if you can learn the exact inputs by heart. Unforseen events don't happen in time trials.

 

[jimipitbull]

True, but you don't need reaction time if you can learn the exact inputs by heart. Unforseen events don't happen in time trials.

Well, if it's by heart, then pushing it's reaction time past say, 190bpm for a fit and healthy 20 year old, and with unforseen events, by definition, they can't be seen.

I'm pretty sure you would feel it though, and then your other senses would start to fade away.

 

[jimipitbull]

Well, if it's by heart, then pushing it's reaction time past say, 190bpm for a fit and healthy 20 year old, and with unforseen events, by definition, they can't be seen.

I'm pretty sure you would feel it though, and then your other senses would start to fade away.

That said, I think Podracer on N64 was faster than a tomahawk.

Sorry, must have hit quote instead of edit. Mark it down as an unforseen event.

 

[Griffith500]

I declare a new unit of measurement for time: the maxite (pron. max-it). It is approximately 190/180 times the length of a minute, or sixty three and a third seconds exactly. Therefore, a 3 minute and 10 second run is 3 maxites, dead.

Units! Such fun.
In other news, I turn 21 for the 19th time this year. Base-ten is so passé...


Of course, I support any and all efforts to go faster; to probe the limits of human experience. Even if it's just sub 190 seconds around the 'Ring in some silly computer game; the "189 Club" awaits!

 

[nijalninja]

Well, I started thinking on this topic when I firstly completed a Sub-4 in the X-2014 Fan Car, because it only took me about 200km of practice to do it, and I get the feeling that a car like the X-2011, which is faster, with the perfect setup for the track and driver and all the power possible, and probably over 1000km of practice. However I also thought about what it felt like at the pace I was going: I was pushing myself quite hard, but the car was just cruising, so I get the feeling that the driver would not just have to be good, but they would also have to know the limits of a car that is incomprehensibly fast, and then learn push it to as close to that limit as possible, which is insane.

The reaction time problem as mentioned before is only a problem if the driver makes a mistake, and lie most people know: Very fast laps dont have mistakes. This in turn would mean the driver, for just about 3 minutes, would have to perform flawlessly, hitting apex after apex, one after the other, at ballistic speeds.

With this in mind, I get the feeling that a lap of this kind would be one in a trillion, where everything went right for no reason, and more than a small amount of it would come down to simple perseverance lap after lap waiting for that perfect run. Does anyone else feel the same way?

 

[Griffith500]

I like the thinking, but we'd have to ask the fast guys how much time they think is left in the car, and whether their ability to string 100 corners together from sheer muscle memory is anywhere near tapped out. If they think they're 99% of the way there, as with any other car / track, then it's done, I guess.

If the squishy bit is the limiting factor, it may be possible to slow the game down...

 

[LeGeNd-1]

That said, I think Podracer on N64 was faster than a tomahawk.

I raise you WipeOut Zone Mode

 

[Pseudopod]

Well, if it's by heart, then pushing it's reaction time past say, 190bpm for a fit and healthy 20 year old, and with unforseen events, by definition, they can't be seen.

I'm pretty sure you would feel it though, and then your other senses would start to fade away.

But there are no unforseeable events in GT6's hotlapping. Everything that happens is a direct result of your input. There are no random events or other cars on the track, no area of the track will have different grip from one lap to another, and your tires don't even wear out.

The only unforseeable events would be your input device losing precision, or your human body not responding as you want it to, due to fatigue, illnesses or other external factors that don't have anything to do with the actual game.

 

[Whistle Snap]

With the cars in the game currently, I don't think so. If someone manages to hybrid the Red Bull's fan + Tomahawk's active aero/DRS + X's engine + nitro the final straight then it might be doable. In any case, I don't think human reflexes allow a laptime much faster than 3 minutes flat or thereabouts.

I'm going to try this later - I'll upload a video if I'm successful

 

[LeGeNd-1]

But there are no unforseeable events in GT6's hotlapping. Everything that happens is a direct result of your input. There are no random events or other cars on the track, no area of the track will have different grip from one lap to another, and your tires don't even wear out.

The only unforseeable events would be your input device losing precision, or your human body not responding as you want it to, due to fatigue, illnesses or other external factors that don't have anything to do with the actual game.

In that case, I wonder if it might be easier to just program a B-spec script that emulates the perfect line, instead of getting a human to do it?

I'm going to try this later - I'll upload a video if I'm successful

Good luck lol. While you're at it, also try hybriding the Red Bull's active suspension system. The Tomahawk's active camber system is one of the major contributor to its unpredictability (because camber physics in GT6 is all messed up).

 

[Pseudopod]

In that case, I wonder if it might be easier to just program a B-spec script that emulates the perfect line, instead of getting a human to do it?


Good luck lol. While you're at it, also try hybriding the Red Bull's active suspension system. The Tomahawk's active camber system is one of the major contributor to its unpredictability (because camber physics in GT6 is all messed up).

If you can modify bspec in that way at all. One of these approaches requires hacking the game, the other can be done with some (a lot) of practice, if it is indeed possible at all.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

If you can modify bspec in that way at all. One of these approaches requires hacking the game, the other can be done with some (a lot) of practice, if it is indeed possible at all.

Ah yeah I'm aware that we can't program B-spec by normal means. That was just a hypothetical thought (prove me wrong PD ).

The hybriding stuff might be possible (depends on how the separate parts for the cars are coded), but of course driving the resulting monster car is another completely different matter.

 

[nijalninja]

I would be much more impressed if a human driver could do it, because of all the reasons I stated earlier.

 

[nijalninja]

Ah yeah I'm aware that we can't program B-spec by normal means. That was just a hypothetical thought (prove me wrong PD ).

The hybriding stuff might be possible (depends on how the separate parts for the cars are coded), but of course driving the resulting monster car is another completely different matter.

(sorry for the double post). See this is where come back to the thought that it would be more about simply surviving than being fast with the car. If you did it with a normal car it would be more about skill and practice rather than simple instincts of survival.

But I have never done it, so I cant really say one thing is better than another.

 

[BadgerVadge]

i was watching the tomahawk seasonal challenge record lap (3:11) at nurburgring nordschleife and the dude was insanely fast going full throttle almost all the time and braked and had perfect lines, he ran a 3:11 i was so blown away from how perfectly fast he was except for a few upshifts to control the rear end . i think he could possibly do a sub 3 min if he put in enough work.

meanwhile i barley managed a gold time w/out TCS and ABS, after like 40 laps haha. its too fast for me. now I could honestly say this was the hardest seasonal event ever in gt6 history, because it actually challenged me unlike the rest of the seasonals ahah.

 

[RacerPaul]

My old eyes and slowing reflexes couldn't get anywhere near the requirements for this challenge

 

[MidFieldMaven]

In that case, I wonder if it might be easier to just program a B-spec script that emulates the perfect line, instead of getting a human to do it?

I would love that. It would save me hundreds of hours spent (wasted?) testing cars.

 

[Griffith500]

I would love that. It would save me hundreds of hours spent (wasted?) testing cars.

I don't really know what the original meaning was, but since the word "program" was used, I took it to mean it would be editing the AI / driving line to optimise it for the track / car combo. Presumably this would have to be done per car, lest any modifications that work on one car cause error filled laps on another. So I can't see it saving any time at all in testing, in fact it's more likely to multiply it significantly.

You could just run one make races and see what laptimes the AI (as-is) return, for comparison's sake. Not sure how reliable that'd be.

 

[Whistle Snap]

Well, I swapped over the Redbull fan car suspension and its downforce values and man it's awful, I can't even get a clean lap in 🤬 It's a very twitchy and there's too much camera movement. I'm also having to unplug the wheel from the power so there's no FFB which makes things even more tricky, my G27 goes crazy otherwise and I'd rather keep it in working order.

My quickest invalid time is 3:14, this is with a spin and a trip through the gravel. I must have lost 6-8 seconds at best, I don't think I can get under 3 mins, but I'm sure the best GT drivers with this thing could.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Well, I swapped over the Redbull fan car suspension and its downforce values and man it's awful, I can't even get a clean lap in 🤬 It's a very twitchy and there's too much camera movement. I'm also having to unplug the wheel from the power so there's no FFB which makes things even more tricky, my G27 goes crazy otherwise and I'd rather keep it in working order.

My quickest invalid time is 3:14, this is with a spin and a trip through the gravel. I must have lost 6-8 seconds at best, I don't think I can get under 3 mins, but I'm sure the best GT drivers with this thing could.

Did you turn on Active Steering? It helps greatly with the twitchiness. Also put ASM as well if you're struggling. The slight loss of speed is negligible but it makes the car a lot easier to drive. If you can get 3.14 with a spin then the top drivers surely will be able to go below 3 minutes.

Also, try going the opposite way: mount the Tomahawk's engine in the Red Bull. Maybe it's better for stability (the RB is also lighter). Oh, and don't forget to hybrid nitrous this time (if possible)

 

[nijalninja]

Well, I swapped over the Redbull fan car suspension and its downforce values and man it's awful, I can't even get a clean lap in 🤬 It's a very twitchy and there's too much camera movement. I'm also having to unplug the wheel from the power so there's no FFB which makes things even more tricky, my G27 goes crazy otherwise and I'd rather keep it in working order.

My quickest invalid time is 3:14, this is with a spin and a trip through the gravel. I must have lost 6-8 seconds at best, I don't think I can get under 3 mins, but I'm sure the best GT drivers with this thing could.

Hey man, Wow, that is damn impressive. If you did that with a spin then I am sure you could do it on a near perfect lap. I am not saying you should keep trying, but good work.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I was feeling sciency and looked up the speed of human nerve conduction. Apparently the fastest nerves conduct at 120 m/s (around 432 km/h or 270 mph). Taking the Nordschleife length of 20.8 km, if you do it under 3 minutes you will average 416 km/h. Pretty damn close to the limit of physiology Theoretically the absolute fastest laptime a human can do is around 2 minutes 53 seconds.

Famine and other smarter people than me will probably say I butchered the science here , but it's still pretty cool to see how close the SRT guys are to reaching their goal (making a car close to limit of human reflex) 👍

 

[Dan]

Are there any videos of the fastest lap(s) of the Tomahawk on the Nürburgring?