subwoofer sound problem after patch

[bevo]

I just tried out the new patch and it almost destroyed my subwoofer(it's an SVS pb 13 ultra) when I hit the wall. What in the world did PD do to make my sub bottom out like that. I've never heard any port noise before. The only scene in a movie to even ever test it was the sound cannon scene in the incredible hulk.

What's making it worse is that the sound is under 20hz, because I can't hear it, but I can certainly feel it, hear windows and pictures rattling and hear my sub straining like crazy with it. Why in the world would PD boost bass under 20hz this loud. I turned my sub down 10db but it's still chuffing just a little, if it was with anything else the -10db would have almost turned it off.

Has anyone else with any high end subs that will play below 20hz had this problem since the update?

I'll tell you what though, this makes the damage in GT the most realistic damage I have ever seen in a game. If you crash your car, you might destroy your subwoofer. It just made me really think twice when trying to push harder through a turn. No amount of in game visual or mechanical damage could ever cost me a couple thousand real world dollars.

 

[TehFunk]

I didn't notice any change in sound, but then again i only have a 8" JBL and its probably too small for anything that low.

Shouldn't your subwoofer have a built in sub-sonic filter to prevent bottoming out? i know my car's amp has one

 

[bevo]

I didn't notice any change in sound, but then again i only have a 7" JBL and its probably too small for anything that low.

Shouldn't your subwoofer have a built in sub-sonic filter to prevent bottoming out? i know my car's amp has one

It's got a cutoff to keep the amp from blowing, but there's no way to keep the actual speaker from being damaged by moving to far. The amp doesn't know how far your speakers moving, it just knows how much juice is going to it. 500 watts at 70hz is one thing, but 500 watts at 15 hz can cause trouble. There shouldn't be anything that pushes the sub that hard that low. They've changed something with this update and must have never tested it with a decent sound system.

I was only listening at -32db, that's way below refernce level. Hopefully someone at pd figures this out, because people with real subs are going to just have to turn them off while they play if they don't fix it.

 

[gtpsuper24]

My SVS hasn't had any problems the PC 12 Plus, but i've noticed background static like noise in my center channel speaker (Axiom VP180) Anyone else notice it. I've trouble shooted it and its only on GT5 mostly Laguna Seca for some reason.

 

[bevo]

My SVS hasn't had any problems the PC 12 Plus, but i've noticed background static like noise in my center channel speaker (Axiom VP180) Anyone else notice it. I've trouble shooted it and its only on GT5 mostly Laguna Seca for some reason.

Have you hit a wall after the update? Really I didn't trouble shoot it that much. It happened on the Rome GT academy race using in car view. I never noticed it on the first races track, but I don't think I ever hit anything on it. I'll try some other cars and tracks tommorow, I pretty much just turned it off after I turned my sub down and it still did it a little, because I was afraid to hurt the sub.

If you have the 12 plus though, you know that very rarely anything should make these subs bottom out, or make any port sounds. The only thing that would do it, is some poorly mixed audio that boosts really low frequency ranges really loud.

 

[gtpsuper24]

I hit a wall really hard after I read your post and nothing unusual sound wise. The only thing I can think of is your running your sub too hot. Either the gain is turned up too high passed 3/4 or the receiver subwoofer level is too high. I don't know if its against forum rules to recommend another forum non related to gaming but AVS forum is really good for audio/video questions, mostly hometheater type stuff. There are a lot of people on there that have Ultras that might be able to help.

 

[onearmbandit]

I'm running a Yamaha rack system with powered sub and have noticed no change after the patch.

 

[knavish]

this same thing happened to me. im glad im not the only one. i made sure i lowered the sub volume. it's a annoying glitch and hopefully they address it soon. it started after the update.

 

[bevo]

I hit a wall really hard after I read your post and nothing unusual sound wise. The only thing I can think of is your running your sub too hot. Either the gain is turned up too high passed 3/4 or the receiver subwoofer level is too high. I don't know if its against forum rules to recommend another forum non related to gaming but AVS forum is really good for audio/video questions, mostly hometheater type stuff. There are a lot of people on there that have Ultras that might be able to help.

I'm a member there, and have went so far as to buy a velodyne SMS-1 to EQ my sub. I ended up not really needing it because I found the perfect spot to put the sub. The only peak I have is at 40hz and my sub can get rid of one peak.

I've got it setup right, it's got to be some kind of glitch. I think it's at such a low frequency that most peoples subs just will not play that low. I've got a meter and everything and my sub is flat down to 10 hz, except for the house curve I have put into it. There isn't one peak over 2 or 3 db all the way through except for the house curve.

I played with it some more last night and I ended up just turning my sub off. GT5 is the only audio that causes it to do this.

 

[bevo]

this same thing happened to me. im glad im not the only one. i made sure i lowered the sub volume. it's a annoying glitch and hopefully they address it soon. it started after the update.

Thanks, I was hoping I wasn't crazy. What kind of sub are you running? If I turn mine down to where it doesn't do it, the sub doesn't even work with anything else. I bet it's a good 20 db boost at around 15-25 hz.
It really sucks because I started actually listening to custom BGM race music and started to really like it. Now I don't have any bass playing with my music.
I really hope they fix this. It's the most annoying thing ever. It could actually cause damage to my speaker. I wonder if PD would be responsible for damaging it and have to replace my sub for me?

Sorry for the double post, I don't know how to put multiple quotes in one post.

 

[Griffith500]

I've noticed a bug with the collision sounds (and sometimes the "backfire" effect) where it causes a massive DC (ish) offset, with a bit of "noise" thrown in. I recognise the hollow tone my headphones make when this happens (they're not meant to sit at large deflections, so they introduce their own "colour", as it were), and I was a bit disturbed to hear it in GT5! GT5 used to bug out, by playing the sounds with the wrong delay. That now seems to be fixed in GT5, except that I get this massive "overload", instead.

It's fairly rare for me, though, and has done it since 1.02. I wonder if you're getting the same thing? The port noise might be due to a sudden deflection to maximum. Being roughly DC with a bit of low frequency noise, it might explain why you get a "peak" so low down. Even if your sub can go down to 10 Hz, the assembly will have a natural frequency that may well be around 15 - 25 Hz at large deflections (like how my headphones ring). My headphones supposedly reproduce 0 Hz - 20 kHz, though.

EDIT: I should add, I'm running the PCM 2.1 mix over optical in Large Theatre setting.

 

[bevo]

I've noticed a bug with the collision sounds (and sometimes the "backfire" effect) where it causes a massive DC (ish) offset, with a bit of "noise" thrown in. I recognise the hollow tone my headphones make when this happens (they're not meant to sit at large deflections, so they introduce their own "colour", as it were), and I was a bit disturbed to hear it in GT5! GT5 used to bug out, by playing the sounds with the wrong delay. That now seems to be fixed in GT5, except that I get this massive "overload", instead.

It's fairly rare for me, though, and has done it since 1.02. I wonder if you're getting the same thing? The port noise might be due to a sudden deflection to maximum. Being roughly DC with a bit of low frequency noise, it might explain why you get a "peak" so low down. Even if your sub can go down to 10 Hz, the assembly will have a natural frequency that may well be around 15 - 25 Hz at large deflections (like how my headphones ring). My headphones supposedly reproduce 0 Hz - 20 kHz, though.

EDIT: I should add, I'm running the PCM 2.1 mix over optical in Large Theatre setting.

I use to run my setup at 5.1 large theater, but I changed it to 5.1 small theater, because when i switched to using BGM it was very low with the large theater settings and I couldn't get it to sound right with the ingame settings. Maybe I will switch back to the large theater settings and see if that does away with it. But I did make the switch before the update, and everything was working great.

It didn't do this at all before the update though, so I'm sure they have changed something to do with the audio. I just don't know why they would boost that low of a signal all of a sudden. If someone has a sub that will play that low, then they probably have it setup right, and don't need PD to boost the low frequencies to help them get the floor rumbling bass that they are going for, when you hit the wall.

As far as the sub playing that low. I actually only have it tuned to play down to 20 HZ. It's possible to tune it, by blocking the ports. As low frequency as this problem is, I could probably mess around with some tunning options on the sub and see if I can't get rid of it that way. I hate to do it though, because that would mean having to redo my whole system, and that is a real pain.

 

[Griffith500]

I use to run my setup at 5.1 large theater, but I changed it to 5.1 small theater, because when i switched to using BGM it was very low with the large theater settings and I couldn't get it to sound right with the ingame settings. Maybe I will switch back to the large theater settings and see if that does away with it. But I did make the switch before the update, and everything was working great.

It didn't do this at all before the update though, so I'm sure they have changed something to do with the audio. I just don't know why they would boost that low of a signal all of a sudden. If someone has a sub that will play that low, then they probably have it setup right, and don't need PD to boost the low frequencies to help them get the floor rumbling bass that they are going for, when you hit the wall.

As far as the sub playing that low. I actually only have it tuned to play down to 20 HZ. It's possible to tune it, by blocking the ports. As low frequency as this problem is, I could probably mess around with some tunning options on the sub and see if I can't get rid of it that way. I hate to do it though, because that would mean having to redo my whole system, and that is a real pain.

Well, if it's doing it consistently on every impact, then something is surely up. I just hope you didn't get one of these DC moments I described and it's damaged your set-up in some way, so is only coincidental with the update.

Now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure I'm running a "hardware" 10 Hz high-pass myself, so theoretically I shouldn't be getting DC at all... but nothing's perfect.
I also wondered why my user BGM was so quiet - I assumed it was the dynamic range setting, but couldn't be arsed to test it. Thanks 👍


Anyway, we do need someone else with a proper sub unit to test this, too. My headphones don't really have the "power" to fully reproduce much below 75 Hz anyway.

 

[HurlingDervish]

Doesn't surprise me.

The audio production outside of them recording exhaust sounds has been lackluster.

Another contributing factor may be the dynamic range settings (living room, small theater, large theater), and the way they implemented them.

For starters, everything besides large theater has a dB limiter squashing everything down to size. http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/processing/limiter/ for info on what limiters are doing.

Instead of controlling the overall volume of some sounds to match each dynamic range setting, they lazily just relied on limiters. This creates distortion, and distortion can have an effect of adding frequencies that weren't originally there.

On top of this, should you decide to turn off the limiters and change to the large theater setting, everything save for the engine sounds environmental sounds stay at a quiet volume. There's no way to balance the volume levels then, everything is "stuck" because they relied on limiters to achieve their lower dynamic range settings.

Where this comes back to you, is that there are numerous different unwanted side effects that could be affecting the sounds that are causing your woofer problems. Distortion, sharp changes in volume levels, artifacts, etc. I really wouldn't be able to tell for sure unless I saw how they actually controlled all the sounds in the game. They need to learn from EA's use of the HDR mixer.

 

[lalaurentide]

If you play with your sub at lower level and your sub isn't bottoming out, then it's your setup not the game that is square signaling.

 

[bevo]

If you play with your sub at lower level and your sub isn't bottoming out, then it's your setup not the game that is square signaling.

My sub works fine, even at reference level with every other thing I have tried with it. Even the sonic cannon scenes from the hulk, and the cannon scenes from the russle crow movie(can't remeber the name of it) which are movie scenes that are used to test subwoofers and how hard they can be pushed.
Everything is setup correctly,I ha ve a DB mic, and the calibration tools for it. I also have several frequency sweep tracks, and all of them have came back fine. My denon also does a pretty good job at building a house curve for the sub. I used a velodyne SMS-1 also with this system, and ended up not even needing it. I only have one peak and it's at 40hz, but my sub can take care of 1 peak and that's what I did.
Trust me, I have went out of my way to setup my system as best I can, without using any kind of reflection pads on the walls. The only audio that has given me any trouble at all is now in GT5. It has to be the game, there's no way for some reason my sub would only screw up on GT5 and nothing else I have tried. Trust me, the SVS pb 13 ultra can handle almost anything. There is no way that hitting a wall in GT5 should even make it hardly move, let alone do what it is to it.

I even tried turning of the dynamic eq and that only tamed it down a little bit. It's getting a 30 or more db boost at around 15-20 hz, and that shouldn't be happening.


I never started having any trouble at all until the first lap I ran after the update. No other media, has given me any trouble except for GT5, and it only does it when I hit a wall. Something on the game has changed, and they didn't test it with a decent home theater.

It's not actually bottoming the sub all the way out, but it is moving enough air to make it look like there are 20mph winds blowing my curtains around. This is with my sub at about 1/4 gain on the sub, and turned all the way down to -12db on the receiver, with the listening level at around -30. Anything else I can watch with my sub at around 0 level on the receiver, and the listening level at around -15 or so, and I could actually go to 0 if I wanted, but refernece level is very, loud.

 

[Solomon73]

I have a Velodyne 15" (servo sub). paid about 2 grand in the early 90's and I'll never touch another sub. I hit a couple walls prior to 1.05 while I was messing with the standard/medium/large theater settings in the game options. Never heard anything that made me worry about the sub. I will definately give it a listen with the new update.

 

[lalaurentide]

If there is a +30dB boost at 15-20hZ it's your setup without a doubt, this would be way above the dynamic range and would create a massive square signal at the source itself, don't know about 96kHz, but certainly at 44/48kHz, and everyone would have blown subs and/or speakers without question, square signal will destroy a speaker at their reference SPL (1 Watt) fairly quickly, at peak within minutes. So far the impact sound of barriers, cars and jump landings is the same as it was, louder than the rest but far from being a speaker killer in relation to the range it's being played in, check your setup, don't set dynamic range to large theater unless you have a theater, don't set GT5 sound to 120 unless you are using 48kHz. Also, your 40Hz peak is a standing wave most likely.

 

[bevo]

I have a Velodyne 15" (servo sub). paid about 2 grand in the early 90's and I'll never touch another sub. I hit a couple walls prior to 1.05 while I was messing with the standard/medium/large theater settings in the game options. Never heard anything that made me worry about the sub. I will definately give it a listen with the new update.

It's only happened since the update. Everything was fine until the minute after the update. I came really close to a velodyne, but the SVS ultra is really hard to beat, and is kind of the "new" sub on the market. Really the only thing that comes close to it is the Seaton sub, or one of the JL audio 12,000$ subs. There's no reason it should be doing this, and since it only has done it with GT5, I can't see anything else being the problem.

Here are my settings
5.1 linear pcm

small theater

entire sound system is calibrated to 75db reference level and all the distances are correct.

sub is calibrated flat and then denon does it's own thing for the house curve. I have checked the curve though with an SMS-1 and it's so good I sold the SMS-1 because I couldn't see the need for it.

 

[bevo]

If there is a +30dB boost at 15-20hZ it's your setup without a doubt, this would be way above the dynamic range and would create a massive square signal at the source itself, don't know about 96kHz, but certainly at 44/48kHz, and everyone would have blown subs and/or speakers without question, square signal will destroy a speaker at their reference SPL (1 Watt) fairly quickly, at peak within minutes. So far the impact sound of barriers, cars and jump landings is the same as it was, louder than the rest but far from being a speaker killer in relation to the range it's being played in, check your setup, don't set dynamic range to large theater unless you have a theater, don't set GT5 sound to 120 unless you are using 48kHz. Also, your 40hZ peak is a standing wave most likely.

I've got a theater. And here is the sub http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb13ultra.cfm If you know anything about these subs, you will know that it should be able to take anything that comes at it. It's arguably the best sub on the market, no matter how much money you spend.

What could possibly be wrong with my setup that the only thng that makes it do this is GT5 after the update. Like I said everything else still sounds fine. Any reference piece I have tried with it works just like it did before. All sweeps I have ran down to 10hz have been fine. The speaker is in the same spot, and the room hasn't changed. The only change is the GT5 update.

If you can think of anything else I can check I'll give it a go, but I have done all I can think of to rule out GT5 , but everything points to GT5. If anything else gave me this same problem I would understand, but GT5 is the only thing doing it, and it's at a frequency that almost shouldn't even be in the game.

 

[xSNAKEx]

see, dont you wish you got the real changelog of an update instead of the public press relaease one. I want everything to be included in a chnagelong, not just easy to understand dumbed down stuff.

 

[yakapo]

Ive noticed the bass on crashes has been increased 5-10 fold. This was on my computer sound system with a Polk 10"' sub. It actually startled me the first time.

Meh. Let me know when the engine sounds half as good as rfactor or iracing.

 

[ki11abee]

I have a 6.1 setup and my klipsch subwoofer didnt experience this. Maybe the only thing i notice was on the new seasonal SSR map when you use the GTR Skyline car, i kept hearing a thump every 2 seconds as if i was hitting a wall, but i wasnt. And only in that map. I even thought it was a song (since i have msic kinda low) that had a thumping bass, but nope. Weird..

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I first thought the 1.05 patch lowered the bass when I hit the road section (expansion gaps?) in SSR5 since I didn't feel the bumps as hard with my Buttkicker. The engine rumble seem to be less as well. But now I think you are right, it's the contacts with other cars and wall that has increase strength which cause me to lower my volume on my Buttkicker which in turn lowered the rumble I felt from the road. I hope PD fits this as before GT5 had the best Buttkicking effects.

 

[Griffith500]

I have a 6.1 setup and my klipsch subwoofer didnt experience this. Maybe the only thing i notice was on the new seasonal SSR map when you use the GTR Skyline car, i kept hearing a thump every 2 seconds as if i was hitting a wall, but i wasnt. And only in that map. I even thought it was a song (since i have msic kinda low) that had a thumping bass, but nope. Weird..

There are "expansion gaps" in the road on SSR5 and CSR5

 

[the Interceptor]

It's got a cutoff to keep the amp from blowing, but there's no way to keep the actual speaker from being damaged by moving to far. The amp doesn't know how far your speakers moving, it just knows how much juice is going to it. 500 watts at 70hz is one thing, but 500 watts at 15 hz can cause trouble. There shouldn't be anything that pushes the sub that hard that low. They've changed something with this update and must have never tested it with a decent sound system.

This is not quite right. A subwoofer of this quality level should have a limiter which, given the developers did their job properly, should protect the driver from any kind of damage by too much excursion. You are correct in saying that the amplifier can only monitor its own output, but will not notice what it does to the driver (given there is no feedback loop), but this should be covered during development. The developers will test how much power they can put on the driver in the given enclosure before it gets dangerous and then set the limiter of the amplifier to a level which is a tad lower than that.

Either way, I suppose the problem in-game was probably generated by a PD programmer who altered the sound code and overlooked something which might be hard to notice. I don't doubt that the problem exists, but the posts in this thread show that it is not noticeable on many systems. The programmer at PD probably tested it on a standard sound system which cloaked the error and gave his changes a green light, just like you suggested. That however means that there's nothing you can do about it other than turning your subwoofer off, down, or increasing the lower cut-off frequency either by an external device somewhere between the PS3 and the subwoofer or maybe on the subwoofer itself, given it allows for changes of this kind.

 

[ki11abee]

There are "expansion gaps" in the road on SSR5 and CSR5

OMG so that explains it then lol. Thanks!

 

[ghostrider135]

I also got some weird sound about 10mins ago I was practising online at Le Mans and didn't pay attention and barrelled straight into the chicane I thought my telly might have been on the blink so I had to quit the lobby and go to practice mode and it fixed it thank goodness