SUGGESTION BOX: How to structure GTP races for GT5

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stig's helmet
^ok i'll do that ragardless then
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I am not completely subjective, but this is the best place to find races concerning GT. Every other site is not English speaking, or is not worth one's time. Bad attitudes are almost always left in the speculation forums--like this one!-- and the forums where competition happens is usually all good fun. :cheers: :gtpflag:
 
Yes, I know the process involved in switching and making PSN accounts, but really, it doesn't matter.
It's a waste of time, for instance what if I want to be able to use my main PSN for GTP races too, for stat tracking etc... and trophies, if there are online ones.
If it's something I'm going to do every weekend for example, why shouldn't I use my main account?
 
I'm 999.99999% agree UN_CO especially the color dot part. Wheel user vs controller user aren't fair to race to each other, because precision driving is the number one problem in GT5 prologue. I've raced with a bunch of pad user and only a small percentage of them got it right to race fair and smooth without hitting other car (Maybe just a small tap), so I hope Kaz and PD add the feature to restrict pad vs wheel user to race each other. It's like saying you can use a mouse and keyboard in a fps game with pad users and make the k/m user take the advantage.
 
Actually, I find it easier to play shooters with a pad. Mousing is not a big advantage, or sometimes not an advantage at all.
But anyways, is it really necessary to make a whole new PSN to race against other people? Seems very silly and picky to me. Why is it that you would have to do that in order to join the league?
 
that means i have to get a new email as well though don't it?....and then i wouldn't have trophies...mm. I'll have a thunk:cool:
 
Lasdul
Actually, I find it easier to play shooters with a pad. Mousing is not a big advantage, or sometimes not an advantage at all.
But anyways, is it really necessary to make a whole new PSN to race against other people? Seems very silly and picky to me. Why is it that you would have to do that in order to join the league?
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Actually it does make an advantage when you play fps, especially CSS or any fast pace shooters.
 
ralph89
I'm 999.99999% agree UN_CO especially the color dot part. Wheel user vs controller user aren't fair to race to each other, because precision driving is the number one problem in GT5 prologue. I've raced with a bunch of pad user and only a small percentage of them got it right to race fair and smooth without hitting other car (Maybe just a small tap), so I hope Kaz and PD add the feature to restrict pad vs wheel user to race each other. It's like saying you can use a mouse and keyboard in a fps game with pad users and make the k/m user take the advantage.
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I wouldn't completely rule a pad user out though. I'm certainly going to be pushing myself to get to a comparable level. Not all wheel users are brilliant at GT5.

It'll take lots of time and dedication but I'm gonna get there.
 
stig's helmet
that means i have to get a new email as well though don't it?....and then i wouldn't have trophies...mm. I'll have a thunk:cool:
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You can just make up a email address, it doesnt have to be a live one, just ending with @whatever.com.

If you play against other people online you cant guarantee how they will behave, if you race with someone with a GTP_ name, it sort of guarantees they wont rear end you. There is generally more etiquette.

People on this site generally arent 12 year old fools, bad mouthing each other, thats what COD is for.
 
Vincent Viceroy
I wouldn't completely rule a pad user out though. I'm certainly going to be pushing myself to get to a comparable level. Not all wheel users are brilliant at GT5.

It'll take lots of time and dedication but I'm gonna get there.
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People will naturally sort themselves out into clans. Older gamers will eventually have older gamers on their friends list - muscle car fans will have muscle car fans on their list - and so on...

The biggest roadblock for this will be the online experience as a whole. If it's easy, somewhat lag free, and gives people the ability to roam from race to race - then people will sort themselves out "if" they have a microphone/blue-teeth-thingy.

By early spring, most GT fans should have a big garage and a lot of $$$. Not only that, but there will only be 2-3deg of separation between everyone. So a post here, an IM via PSN, or chatting in a room will be all that it needed for a tournament/race league/beer league.

Worry about PSN integration...not how to organize races as that will come naturally.
 
Yeah I encourage people to use their GTP psn accounts. Even offline just to play through the game.

As for race structure we will just have to wait until we get our hands on GT5. Hopefully the WRS will continue. And we can have some other system, like American muscle clubs so you guys can all race together in your favourite cars.
 
still doesn't address the trophy problem...but i s'pose that doesn't matter for online racing does it?

i'm thinking of getting a g25 wheel, would like to enhance my experience. Will be fun finding out how to use the clutch :p
 
But the thing is I still don't see why it's a necessary thing to have GTP in your PSN... I want to have the same progress through one account, not two different accounts, and what about the people already on my friends list? Add them all again? No thanks...
There's no need as we will know each other through the GTP threads...
As long as it's not vital, I'm fine...
 
stig's helmet
still doesn't address the trophy problem...but i s'pose that doesn't matter for online racing does it?
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Trophies don't serve a purpose as far as I can tell. I don't think anyone will respect you more on here, infact having a GTP name is probably better than loads of trophies for GT5 online.
Lasdul
But the thing is I still don't see why it's a necessary thing to have GTP in your PSN... I want to have the same progress through one account, not two different accounts, and what about the people already on my friends list? Add them all again? No thanks...
There's no need as we will know each other through the GTP threads...
As long as it's not vital, I'm fine...
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Just for identification. Hopefully it will build a respected "brand" eventually. I think the GTP tag should be required for WRS, but of course if you have the tag it will mean you will be let in private lobbies and stuff.

I don't know how game progress will affect online play though.
 
I mean, you have to make a new profile to have a new PSN account, and if the game has copy protection that means I will have to play GT Life on my GTP account to get anywhere.
EDIT: I always thought online cars and tuning etc. would be affected by your GT Life.
 
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I have had quiet some time to think about this and how I would run a competition or racing franchise around Gran Turismo. The clean and dirty runs and rules are great for TT (Time Trails) but there has to be some better rules and regulations when it comes to racing on Gran Turismo.

If anyone comes out with what ever becomes the norm. I think the main issues are:
  1. Connectivity.
  2. Controls

Connectivity has a few sub categories but are basically summery in not just region, but time zone. Even an Eastern time zone person is going to have problems with someone in the central time zone. There are several variables to consider.

Controls are another big issue and I can not see any type of real solution unless Polyphony Digital has something in store for us to combat that problem with online match making.

Competition Racing in the sim becomes a matter of likes and dislikes from everyone in regards of rules and regulations for each type of racing.

For GT racing and Endurance racing I believe an adoption of the AOC and/or ALMS CODE should be adopted. With the introduction of the improved damage physics of the sim, I think taking a corner and hitting the wall or cutting the grass can be acceptable now and only hurts the car and driver within that race. A full adoption would not be a viable aspect but taking from those rules, and using the most important parts, I think, would be a wise thing to do.

The same thing can be done with the NASCAR aspect. Adopt the most important rules.

Where do you place?
Getting the sim and going online to race right off the bat would be fun to do, but in a type of racing for leagues or groups there has to be some type of qualifying before the actual race. (be it NASCAR or GT racing)

Right now it is hard to guess how this can be done. There are [again] a lot of variables to consider to make it fair. A qualifying run can be done, saved, and reviewed, but what is stopping someone from using their best times for that track, that was made 2 weeks prior?
We are just limited on the information at this point, about the sim, to combat this problem. In any case, I believe that qualifying runs are something that has to be looked into. Even if its only 16 people racing at one time.

Substitution.
You have more that 16 people wanting to get into one race. What do you do? You can take the top 16 qualifiers and run the race! What do you do when Bob can not make it to the race for any given reason? Allow a substitution! Take an extra top 5 qualifiers and use them as back ups for the 16th place. If place 9 can not make it. Everyone else moves up. and a back up moves to 16th place.

B-Spec
I really think that B-Spec should be included somewhere in all this mess. If this mode of racing is going to be anything like GT4 then there are some real opportunities here for some great casual races, that are actual competition. Its not about telling your car how to race, its picking the right time to over take, take easy, go fast, when to pit, how much gas to give and a slew of other dynamics.

I think if your going to create or maintain any type of racing league, you need to keep EVERYONE in mind. Utilize GT5 with all it has to offer when it comes to different types of racing.

Everything from Kart Racing to B-Spec racing needs to have a place in your league, or how ever you want to name it.

To post or not to post?
With all of this in contrast, I can not see how running something like this will work on a forum? It seems to have worked well for GTP but I do believe that, with the limitations of GTP, not a whole lot needed to be done for displaying results. For the number of advances that PD has talked about up to this point (9-5-10). I think a more involved website set up will need to be constructed for this.

For myself, I will be dabbling into the NASCAR and Kart Racing a little bit, but the Endurance Le Mans series is where it is at for me.

I'm going to end this here. I could go on and on about my thoughts on this and the complexity of the sim when it comes to all the different types of racing, but I will let it go at this for now.

Thanks for reading
 
GyverX
I have had quiet some time to think about this and how I would run a competition or racing franchise around Gran Turismo. The clean and dirty runs and rules are great for TT (Time Trails) but there has to be some better rules and regulations when it comes to racing on Gran Turismo.

If anyone comes out with what ever becomes the norm. I think the main issues are:
  1. Connectivity.
  2. Controls

Connectivity has a few sub categories but are basically summery in not just region, but time zone. Even an Eastern time zone person is going to have problems with someone in the central time zone. There are several variables to consider.

Controls are another big issue and I can not see any type of real solution unless Polyphony Digital has something in store for us to combat that problem with online match making.

Competition Racing in the sim becomes a matter of likes and dislikes from everyone in regards of rules and regulations for each type of racing.

For GT racing and Endurance racing I believe an adoption of the AOC and/or ALMS CODE should be adopted. With the introduction of the improved damage physics of the sim, I think taking a corner and hitting the wall or cutting the grass can be acceptable now and only hurts the car and driver within that race. A full adoption would not be a viable aspect but taking from those rules, and using the most important parts, I think, would be a wise thing to do.

The same thing can be done with the NASCAR aspect. Adopt the most important rules.

Where do you place?
Getting the sim and going online to race right off the bat would be fun to do, but in a type of racing for leagues or groups there has to be some type of qualifying before the actual race. (be it NASCAR or GT racing)

Right now it is hard to guess how this can be done. There are [again] a lot of variables to consider to make it fair. A qualifying run can be done, saved, and reviewed, but what is stopping someone from using their best times for that track, that was made 2 weeks prior?
We are just limited on the information at this point, about the sim, to combat this problem. In any case, I believe that qualifying runs are something that has to be looked into. Even if its only 16 people racing at one time.

Substitution.
You have more that 16 people wanting to get into one race. What do you do? You can take the top 16 qualifiers and run the race! What do you do when Bob can not make it to the race for any given reason? Allow a substitution! Take an extra top 5 qualifiers and use them as back ups for the 16th place. If place 9 can not make it. Everyone else moves up. and a back up moves to 16th place.

B-Spec
I really think that B-Spec should be included somewhere in all this mess. If this mode of racing is going to be anything like GT4 then there are some real opportunities here for some great casual races, that are actual competition. Its not about telling your car how to race, its picking the right time to over take, take easy, go fast, when to pit, how much gas to give and a slew of other dynamics.

I think if your going to create or maintain any type of racing league, you need to keep EVERYONE in mind. Utilize GT5 with all it has to offer when it comes to different types of racing.

Everything from Kart Racing to B-Spec racing needs to have a place in your league, or how ever you want to name it.

To post or not to post?
With all of this in contrast, I can not see how running something like this will work on a forum? It seems to have worked well for GTP but I do believe that, with the limitations of GTP, not a whole lot needed to be done for displaying results. For the number of advances that PD has talked about up to this point (9-5-10). I think a more involved website set up will need to be constructed for this.

For myself, I will be dabbling into the NASCAR and Kart Racing a little bit, but the Endurance Le Mans series is where it is at for me.

I'm going to end this here. I could go on and on about my thoughts on this and the complexity of the sim when it comes to all the different types of racing, but I will let it go at this for now.

Thanks for reading
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You have made some good points here, and I certainly agree that many of the barriers in place will be the actual members themselves; some wanting to run on R3's others wanting R1's or even S tyres.

Personally I think it is important that members contribute to the thinking behind future GTP official events, but at the same time if there are a bunch that want to comete on N3's againts the majority then it is up to them to go off and arrange there own little championships. I will certainly arrange my own comps with friends and other GTP'ers but at the same time I will particpate in official GTP events as they are presented.

I think the mods and admins are keeping a close eye on this thread, and I am certain they all have there own ideas of what sort of official GTP events we should have but the more we contribute the better compromise we can have for all, hopefully limiting any exclusion due to events not being to everyones liking.👍
 
PAPPACLART
I think the mods and admins are keeping a close eye on this thread, and I am certain they all have there own ideas of what sort of official GTP events we should have but the more we contribute the better compromise we can have for all, hopefully limiting any exclusion due to events not being to everyones liking.👍
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If you are right., and the mods are watching this thread, then I will put these other pennies of thought in…

Hopefully someone can help me out here. To undertake something of this magnitude then you have to start somewhere. What types of racing are there? And what, of those types of racing match or can be matched to GT5?

Start with the Cars! How many types of different cars are there?
Stock (NASCAR), Touring car, open wheeled, ect, ect…

Then take the tracks that these different types of cars match.
Stock (NASCAR) = Talladega Speedway
Rally Cross = Knockhill Track

Then take all these figures and categorize them. Separate sections for each different type of racing. Le Mans, Stock, Standard Street Racing, Ect.

This is a huge undertaking and should be separated and if you can categorize them in specific names other than just “Racing”, then you can apply the real world rules for those racers, from the actual series, e.g. NASCAR, ALMS.

With what I said Earlier “Hopefully someone can help me out here”. With what we know so far, What different types of racing are there in GT5, in correlation of real world racing? And what are there names? E.g. NASCAR, Road Racing?

Thanks Again.
 
Lasdul
But the thing is I still don't see why it's a necessary thing to have GTP in your PSN... I want to have the same progress through one account, not two different accounts, and what about the people already on my friends list? Add them all again? No thanks...
There's no need as we will know each other through the GTP threads...
As long as it's not vital, I'm fine...
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I'm really hoping they drop that GTP_ tag requirement as well come GT5. It's not so bad when your game data can just be copied over but I really don't think that will still work in GT5, which leaves those of us who play other games / have big buddy lists / trophy collections kind of up the creek. PSN accounts are not meant to be used for just one game.
 
CerealKiller
I'm really hoping they drop that GTP_ tag requirement as well come GT5. It's not so bad when your game data can just be copied over but I really don't think that will still work in GT5, which leaves those of us who play other games / have big buddy lists / trophy collections kind of up the creek. PSN accounts are not meant to be used for just one game.
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Exactly my point. I fit that category well.👍
 
I think if GT5 allows us to change ID tags within the game then that will solve the multiple PSN account.
 
A few thoughts.

If we really can set-up "track days" or whatever, and you pick a play-list of tracks, what happens to the 16 players in the lobby if one of them is a rally track (seemingly 2 cars maximum) or one of the smaller courses with an 8 car limit?

Secondly, if the "host" quits, the race shouldn't end, it should transfer hosts to another person. They have to implement this feature.

Would really love more concrete on-line info.
 
CerealKiller
I'm really hoping they drop that GTP_ tag requirement as well come GT5. It's not so bad when your game data can just be copied over but I really don't think that will still work in GT5, which leaves those of us who play other games / have big buddy lists / trophy collections kind of up the creek. PSN accounts are not meant to be used for just one game.
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It isn't a requirement, it was used just to separate who is from GTP from who isn't in the public and messy online rooms of Prologue, of course you'll be able to enter GT5 GTP competitions with your usual PSN tag. Where did this "GTP tag requirement" nonsense came from? :confused: People are getting things wrong and thus making erratic assumptions by themselves, don't buy that.
 
Dan_
It isn't a requirement, it was used just to separate who is from GTP from who isn't in the public and messy online rooms of Prologue, of course you'll be able to enter GT5 GTP competitions with your usual PSN tag. Where did this "GTP tag requirement" nonsense came from? :confused: People are getting things wrong and thus making erratic assumptions by themselves, don't buy that.
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All due respect Dan, but from the link Dapper just posted:

"All drivers must create a GTP_PSN tag."

"Required GTP_PSN Name Tag Format: All registered GTP_PSN ID's must follow the required format: GTP_YourName."
 
Dapper
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=115424

"To be eligible to race here you must follow the three steps detailed below."
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CerealKiller
All due respect Dan, but from the link Dapper just posted:

"All drivers must create a GTP_PSN tag."

"Required GTP_PSN Name Tag Format: All registered GTP_PSN ID's must follow the required format: GTP_YourName."
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The link is aimed to regulate GT5P races, so my point stands folks. ;)

Yeah, I'm aware of the clean racing rules, as I have agreed with them to enter GTP GT5P competitions, the main point in creating the rules and the GTP official tag, was to separate clean racers from dirty cheaters and punters in the public rooms of Prologue, however, in GT5 we'll be getting the private rooms, so you just need to enter your regular PSN tag and agree with the rules, the whole effort of creating a new tag and readding all your friends won't be required just to enter GTP controlled and private competitions, at least this is my opinion, though.

My point stands on the fact that with private rooms, the competitions will be more clean and fair, so creating a PSN tag apart just to separate the punters from the racers seems a little bit of a pointless effort. ;)
 
Dan_
The link is aimed to regulate GT5P races, so my point stands folks. ;)

Yeah, I'm aware of the clean racing rules, as I have agreed with them to enter GTP GT5P competitions, the main point in creating the rules and the GTP official tag, was to separate clean racers from dirty cheaters and punters in the public rooms of Prologue, however, in GT5 we'll be getting the private rooms, so you just need to enter your regular PSN tag and agree with the rules, the whole effort of creating a new tag and readding all your friends won't be required just to enter GTP controlled and private competitions, at least this is my opinion, though.

My point stands on the fact that with private rooms, the competitions will be more clean and fair, so creating a PSN tag apart just to separate the punters from the racers seems a little bit of a pointless effort. ;)
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Yes, the comment was we "hope they drop" this requirement for GT5. The only way to convey this wish to the admins is by making the request here, which is *not* "nonsense" or making "erratic assumptions".

I've raised the issue in the GTP forums and gotten responses stating that they will be requiring the tag in GT5 as well, as well as responses saying there may be a new registry. (so there is no clear answer yet)

I agree it would be a much less valuable requirement, we have to assume most GTP racing will take place in private rooms and thus you should know you can count on them racing fair just by being there. Here's hoping.
 

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