Suspension Patterns and Tyres

[RykketyStykks]

Hey all,

I appreciate that a lot of people spend a great deal of time setting up their car "just so". However, as I frequently change cars I tend to use the default settings; makes life a lot easier!
Riding into this, comes what suspension settings works best with what tyres?

General theory suggests that tyres with more grip require stiffer suspension. If you try and picture the weight transfer in your head as the car brakes and goes around corners this makes sense. Too soft and the car is unstable, too hard and the car lacks traction.

So, I've been doing some testing to see if the deault "Sports" suspension is actually better set up for Sports tyres than the default Fully Customised. My results indicated that this is true as I set ever-so-slightly faster laps times.

However, when racing in competition I kept finding the car feeling too soft so I had a rethink.

I observed the default suspension settings across a spectrum of road cars and noticed they fall into 2 patterns:

Pattern A:
Standard suspension spring rate is at value X
Sports spring rate value 1.5X (50% increase on standard)
Fully Custom spring rate value 1.75X (75% increase on standard)

Pattern B:
Standard suspension spring rate is at value X
Sports spring rate value 1.25X (25% increase on standard)
Fully Custom spring rate value 1.5X (50% increase on standard)

There does not appear to be any reasoning behind whether a road car follows pattern A or B. I know some road cars come with Comfort Soft, and some Sports Hard, but again, that doesn't come into it. The only observation is those that follow pattern B start with a generally higher spring rate and those cars may have been deemed too unruly if they were any softer.

I find this confusing because it indicates no specific tyres correpsond to the various suspensions as there is no consistent relationship. I was hoping to find that something like Standard for Comfort tyres, Sports for Sports Tyres and Fully custom for Racing Tyres. But I don't think that is the case and I'm trying to find a pattern that isn't there.

Now, if we look at the other end, the Fully custom suspension, it would make sense that suspension corresponds to Racing Hard tyres. After all, all racing cars come with Fully Custom suspension and Racing Hard Tyres.

But, is that the case? and if so, to adjust the suspension for different tyres, what formula would I use? +/-5% maybe?

Research from someone else indicates the grip levels on the tyres are linear, i.e the difference between Sports Hard and Sports Medium is the exact same difference between Sports Soft and Racing Hard.

Sounds like we are getting somewhere. But, notice that Nascars come with two default suspension set-ups. One goes F15.8, R14.3 the other F13.8, R11.3. The second is F-2, R-3 from the first. Which is also rather confusing.

So essentially, I'm confused as to what to do with suspension. Any ideas?

 

[MrGrado]

I use FC suspension always, some cars have just about the right spring rates with standard suspension, like ferrari 430 scudera for tyres up to say racing medium. Standard suspension however, in my opinion, doesn't have enough damping to match what I imagine the RL car would have. Also most cars, if not all cars, in RL can make adjustment to wheel alignment.

You really need to tune each car on a case by case basis, but generally I use spring values 7.0 - 10.0 for regular cars and 10.0 - 15.0 for extremely hard core race cars. I find that tuning dampers and camber gives the biggest improvements.

 

[CSLACR]

What I've found in GT games is just buying a sports suspension gives a small grip increase over stock, semi-racing gives a bigger increase, and racing gives the most, on every compound.
So a car with full-race suspension in GT5 automatically has the most cornering grip/speed, though it is bouncier and harder to drive.

 

[nomis3613]

RykketyStykks, if you have the list handy of which cars are Pattern A and which are Pattern B, it'd be great if you could post it then we'd look for trends.

What I've found in GT games is just buying a sports suspension gives a small grip increase over stock, semi-racing gives a bigger increase, and racing gives the most, on every compound.
So a car with full-race suspension in GT5 automatically has the most cornering grip/speed, though it is bouncier and harder to drive.

Hmmmm...interesting.

Do you mean the default settings for each type? Or do you mean with the same settings, so the upgrades are fundamentally grippier to start with?

 

[CSLACR]

RykketyStykks, if you have the list handy of which cars are Pattern A and which are Pattern B, it'd be great if you could post it then we'd look for trends.


Hmmmm...interesting.

Do you mean the default settings for each type? Or do you mean with the same settings, so the upgrades are fundamentally grippier to start with?

Many times it's impossible to get the same settings, as racing won't usually allow many cars to reach stock numbers.
I actually tested it before I knew much about tuning, and with stock settings the differences were pretty obvious to me.
However, sports can sometimes work fantastically in terms of control, I've found instances where the additional softness made it so much easier I ran faster on bumpy tracks such as the Ring.

But the potential increases with each from what I tested.

 

[RykketyStykks]

Thank you for your comments!

I'll compile a list of pattern A and B and post it up here. I need to much more testing it seems!

From my current observations, I've noticed that if the car is on say Sports Hard, the softer springs allow slightly more roll, thus improving cornering. The "Standard" suspension, I think is generally too soft and can make cars prone to instability.

Trouble is, it is quite difficult to completely prove anything as different tracks of course can prefer different set-ups too. What I'm looking for is a way of easily going from car to car, tyre to tyre, track to track, but without hindering myself too much.

As I test, I'll report back.


I have some cars written down in front of me now (will continue to add)...

Type A's:
Jaguar XK
Jaguar XKR
Ferrari F430
Ferrair 430 Scuderia
Chevrolet Camaro SS '10
Nissan Skyline V-SpecII Nur '02


Type B's:
Lamborghini Murcielago 640
Lamborghini Murcielago 670 Super Veloce
Lamborghini Gallardo
Lotus Evora
Nissan GT-R

 

[200MphFord]

Edit

 

[Highlandor]

Interesting thread...

I think you need to clarify what you mean by "what's best" - there can be 2 situations here - Speed and Tyre Wear.

You can tune your car to be faster, but in some situations this can increase tyre wear, so if you're doing races that require pit stops, or the amount of laps is just short of the tyre lifespan, then tuning the car for better tyre wear % may result in a faster race distance, but an individual fastest lap time would probably be slower.

If you could quote variables like jow many laps you're doing on what track, that would be of real benefit.

During a recent test at Trial Mountain with a racecar. I was testing with 4 friends, I started on a harder than stock setup, but found I could do almost the same lap times with a softer setup, but my tyres lasted better, meaning I lost less time at the end of the race through mistakes / oversteer etc etc.

I was 'slower' for my fastest lap, but faster throughout the race distance.

So what is better can be viewed as subjective - I think clarifying this in your tests would be of benefit of all and help validate your experiment

Also, give as many details of the car and setings your using, this will mean people can replicate your test and possibly add to your results or findings.

Best of luck..

 

[nomis3613]

RykketyStykks, thanks for sharing your list. Hmmmmm I'm not seeing any obvious trends either (eg R34 is Type A, yet R35 is Type B)