Suspension settings glitch! (Reversed settings)

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phil_75

phil_75

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phil_75
I was reading this earlier and decided to try it myself.
It is actually true!
I can't believe the game has such a big mistake and no one has noticed in 7 months since the game released.

It explains why the car never acted like I thought it should when tuning.

PD really dropped the ball on this game.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=202692
 
I was going to say that you should bump that thread instead... but then noticed it's in a much less-visited part of the forum.

Those posters have a LOT of tuning experience so I think they're probably right - and in that case a fix should definitely be implemented.
 
GTP_Plato
I don't really need to test to see if you are right as it has already been proven that everything is backwards when it comes to tuning, you just have to watch replays to see how stupid the ride height of the car is on the seasonal time trials, we talked about this with Maz and a few others in the "hello from team skills thread" and all came to the same conclusion.

In my opinion you are 100% right Stotty 👍
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As this guy said (from the other thread) - this has been known for months, the 'SKILLS' guys confirmed this month's ago.

I've been running my race series since the start of Feb, since the start the guys who tune according to the game have very different setups compared to those who tune according to the 'official tuning guide' or 'real life'.

Yes, it's all 'screwed up'.

Setup your car according to what works ONLINE (NOT A spec), don't listen to anything else, even the offical tuning guide or real life.

Start with a blank sheet, then see what works for you and go with that, nothing else.

Rear ride height higher than front helps to stabilise the rear BUT causes understeer at the front, a lower ride height at the rear 'loosens' the rear end and helps the front end to turn i.e. reduces understeer.

Look at the SKILLS guys thread mentioned above, that will verify it - why?? They were faster than anyone / everyone else and all they did was look at what worked in the game, they didn't apply real life physics or the offical tuning guide 'rules'. The people who download their replays confirmed this aswell, the SKILLS guys cars were at crazy ride heights.
 
I just tested this out on the Nurburgring, I set a car up with settings that would normally give it massive understeer but it was actually oversteering to the point where I was unintentionally powersliding round every corner.

So yep it does seem like the front and rear columns in the tuning menu are swapped.
 
budious
It is not reversed, stop perpetuating the bs.
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I think it is reversed on some cars.. I spend the majority of my time playing this game tuning cars. Some changes on certain cars just do not make any sense and the only explanation that justifies the behavior of the car(s) with given changes is that the front and rear are indeed flipped.
 
I will test this again on ride height and spring rates, but dampers are not reversed! Low front settings 1/1 and hard rear 10/10 gives very soft front! The other way around the front is stiff... I find it hard to feel a big difference in the rear, at least on FF cars...
 
budious
It is not reversed, stop perpetuating the bs.
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Do a little test yourself is you don't believe this, that's what I did because I didn't believe it at first either. ;)
What I did was I got my super gt car and maxed everything on the front and lowered everything on the rear, doing this should create a lot of understeer but it was infact the total opposite, it was oversteering with the slightest input.:)
 
Don't feed into the negative comments. The best times on ALL of the TT's online have a 'high front low rear' and are backwards setups. I think it looks stupid but it works.
 
I can also do a number of other counter intuitive things that make the car faster, doesn't mean one factor is broken. Take a Integra Type R for instance and jack the front spring rate up to maximum and the rear spring rate to minimum, you'll probably run your best lap times with it and that is at ride height 0 / 0 with no offset. Spring Rates are not reversed, the whole tuning system has minimal influence on performance of the car. PD worked so hard to recreate the real world driving qualities of the cars and to virtualize their real world performance that every car is probably controlled by a greater set of constant variables that remain hidden and in the end the tuning menu was left to be minimally effective and buggy. They would either have to strip out the hidden variables hard coding the cars to a specific performance expectation or vastly overhaul their simplified physics system to accurately mimic the performance benchmarks of the cars in game while simultaneously offering fully accurate tuning options, both cannot co-exist in the current implementation.
 
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budious
I can also do a number of other counter intuitive things that make the car faster, doesn't mean one factor is broken. Take a Civic Type R for instance and jack the front spring rate up to maximum and the rear spring rate to minimum, you'll probably run your best lap times with it and that is at ride height 0 / 0 with no offset. Spring Rates are not reversed, thewhole tuning system has minimal influence on performance of the car. PD worked so hard to recreate the real world driving qualities of the cars and to virtualize their real world performance that every car is probably controlled by a greater set of constant variables that remain hidden and in the end the tuning menu was left to be minimally effective and buggy. They would either have to strip out the hidden variables hard coding the cars to a specific performance expectation or vastly overhaul their simplified physics system to accurately mimic the performance benchmarks of the cars in game while simultaneously offering fully accurate tuning options, both cannot co-exist in the current implementation.
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Well fortunately things are getting better as we know now more how car should be tuned in gt5.
 
pampsu
Well fortunately things are getting better as we know now more how car should be tuned in gt5.
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What are you considering good? You can use a 0KG ballast and move the ballast position from +50 to -50 to alter the car's weight distribution without adding weight and increase speed also... believe me, I've spent far more time tuning with cars in this game than I care to recount. A glitch that benefits lap times on one course doesn't necessarily apply to any other course either, adjusting damping and anti-roll bars has always been far more influent on lap times and handling than spring rates were since the initial release version and no patch has affected that behavior.
 
I have run the #11 Camry a lot online and noticed nothing wrong with reversed settings. Probably just some people are glitched, if they are at all.
 
budious
What are you considering good? You can use a 0KG ballast and move the ballast position from +50 to -50 to alter the car's weight distribution without adding weight and increase speed also... believe me, I've spent far more time tuning with cars in this game than I care to recount. A glitch that benefits lap times on one course doesn't necessarily apply to any other course either, adjusting damping and anti-roll bars has always been far more influent on lap times and handling than spring rates were since the initial release version and no patch has affected that behavior.
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Everybody wants their car to fit their glove. And who wouldn't first touch suspension settings when fixing over- and understeering. Why so negative approach?
 
budious
I can also do a number of other counter intuitive things that make the car faster, doesn't mean one factor is broken. Take a Integra Type R for instance and jack the front spring rate up to maximum and the rear spring rate to minimum, you'll probably run your best lap times with it and that is at ride height 0 / 0 with no offset. Spring Rates are not reversed, the whole tuning system has minimal influence on performance of the car. PD worked so hard to recreate the real world driving qualities of the cars and to virtualize their real world performance that every car is probably controlled by a greater set of constant variables that remain hidden and in the end the tuning menu was left to be minimally effective and buggy. They would either have to strip out the hidden variables hard coding the cars to a specific performance expectation or vastly overhaul their simplified physics system to accurately mimic the performance benchmarks of the cars in game while simultaneously offering fully accurate tuning options, both cannot co-exist in the current implementation.
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Don't agree with what's highlighted, sorry.

Reason being is the 'Ring' at Cape Ring. I run a race series for road cars, sports tyres - 384bhp. First race was at Cape Ring, we had a 'pre-season' test session, alot of people were struggling to get round the 'Ring' art of this track without the back end stepping out or snapping on FR and MR cars (No assists allowed in race series).

Making some simple changes gave these cars alot more stability at the rear, so much so, they could all pretty much go flat out round the ring, only lifting the throttle to keep car from running wide, not spinning out like before, the back end was rock solid now - but people were now experiencing understeer at the front.

4WD cars, some of these have a very stable back end, by adjusting the rear ride height it's possible to 'loosen' the rear end and make the front end turn more, especially when lifting off the throttle. This, on certian tracks, can have quite an impact on a car's performance.

I know everyone has their own terminology and opinion, but I honestly don't feel as though 'minimal influence' is correct, I feel SOME changes in the suspension can have quite a big impact.
 
budious
I can also do a number of other counter intuitive things that make the car faster, doesn't mean one factor is broken. Take a Integra Type R for instance and jack the front spring rate up to maximum and the rear spring rate to minimum, you'll probably run your best lap times with it and that is at ride height 0 / 0 with no offset.
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You just completely contradicted your whole argument here. Stiffening the front and loosening the back should make the car understeer like crazy, but you yourself just said that it will run it's best laps like this. With the settings being reversed, your set up is really soft in the front and hard in the back, making the car turn extremely well.

I've done my own testing also, and I'm 100% sure the left side of the tuning board is backwards.
 
Hmmmm
I'm not sure what to make of this or what's actually happening.

But the fact that my bf & I often argue about certain ways I'm tuning my car, this makes a WHOLE LOT of sense.

My bf has real life experience in real racing and real life car tuning.
Obviously his knowledge of that influences his tuning choices and how he goes about choosing a set-up or adjusting settings.

See, I have NO real life expertise nor usually even rudimentary knowledge about real life car tuning!!
So when I tinker with my cars in GT5, I'm going SOLELY by my preferences, and trial & error experimentation, in the game.

Sometimes I do well with it all by myself. Some cars I mess up loads before just trying someone else's set-up online, and then just start adjusting from there.

But the bottom line is, there have been times when my bf has watched me tinkering with my tuning settings.. and he's said "WHY are you doing THAT?? you're going to make the car....." yadda yadda.
And yet it works for me!

So then there have been times my bf is struggling to tune a car in a specific way, and he's said to me, "Okay so what would YOU do here?" ANd I've told him, and he says, "That shouldn't help!" but he does it anyway, and it DOES help (sometimes).

Now to me this means that ... if gt5 was "true to life" in tuning... There's NO WAY that MY way of doing ANYTHING should EVER be better than my bf's way. After all, my bf actually knows about cars in real life!
Yet, again and again, he thinks some of my tuning preferences should be crazy... but they sometimes work!

I'm not saying that all the time I'm right & my bf is wrong. Not true at all. Many times, he's helped me tune a car, and he does way better overall than I do.

But sometimes my way works when according to my boyfriend it should NOT work.

I'd always assumed it had something to do with me tuning cars for "grip set to real", because he hasn't played a lot online yet. And some cars you really have to adjust differently for "track grip set to real".

And maybe it does... but maybe the issue being discussed here would better explain why sometimes I can use settings my bf thinks are CRAZY.
 
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I'm not so sure if it is universally backwards, but it is painfully obvious for some cars that it is.
 
budious
It is not reversed, stop perpetuating the bs.
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I think if the choice is to take the advice of some of the fastest drivers/ tuners on this board, or listen to your unwillingness to accept that PD got it wrong, I know who I am pinning my tail to.

You argument that the tuning menu 'has no effect' because 'there are hidden variables at play' is a stretch. PD cant even get text right in the descriptions of cars and you are saying they have a uber-physics engine that overrides the suspension menu to 'keep it real'..
 
I think it just changes the weight distribution.
If the rear is lower more weight is at the rear => therefore more oversteer

=> maybe its not a glitch ??

I tune my cars in standard setting (drive it with stock settings, then change my "normal" setting, after that I do some little changes) and I get almost the same "feeling".
 
watermelonpunch
maybe the issue being discussed here would better explain why sometimes I can use settings my bf thinks are CRAZY.
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Yep - as explained here by the guys who dominated some of the first few time trials. They explain what they found out and how they found it out - they didn't concentrate on 'real life' settings or previous GT settings or the guide that comes with the game.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=154708

They just looked at the game from a 'blank sheet of paper' point of view and concentrated on what worked in the game and nothing else.

Not sure if certain things are actually 'reversed', but I'm 100% sure the setups for online racing are not (currently) 100% based on what works in real life.

Some things are - but 100% of it?? Definately not.
 
mafia_boy
This is the second thread where the OP has linked to another thread in another section of GTP
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He speaks the truth. I am sure the original posters will like to hear more constructive and measured analysis in this version:

Original Thread

If you dont have constructive or measured contributions, you shouldnt be posting on this topic, here, there or anywhere.
 
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