Sutil to Ferrari?

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There are new rumours that Sutil is on his way to Ferrari to replace Massa. With Massa seemingly unhappy at Ferrari because he knows he is their number two driver even though they have stated that they have no favourites. This has paved the way for Sutil to join or may be Kubica. But both of these drivers will have to put up with being number two.

Failing this Sutil could also move to Mercedes as 7 time World Champion Michael Schumacher looks to be quitting F1 for the second time after an awful return.
 
There are new rumours that Sutil is on his way to Ferrari to replace Massa. With Massa seemingly unhappy at Ferrari because he knows he is their number two driver even though they have stated that they have no favourites. This has paved the way for Sutil to join or may be Kubica. But both of these drivers will have to put up with being number two.

Failing this Sutil could also move to Mercedes as 7 time World Champion Michael Schumacher looks to be quitting F1 for the second time after an awful return.

Hasn't this been talked about before?

Also, I highly doubt Massa is going anywhere sometime soon as he can quite frankly outshine Alonso but hasn't been able until most recently and even then he's still having an off-season...everyone has them. On top of that, I'm not really sure where you've gotten the impression that Schumacher might be retiring again as he's signed a 2 or 3 year (I forget which) contract with Mercedes GP, so, yeah...
 
What about Vettel,Rosberg,Glock,Heidfeld and Webber? Even Barrichello and Kovalainen are better than Sutil IMO.
 
Hasn't this been talked about before?

Also, I highly doubt Massa is going anywhere sometime soon as he can quite frankly outshine Alonso but hasn't been able until most recently and even then he's still having an off-season...everyone has them. On top of that, I'm not really sure where you've gotten the impression that Schumacher might be retiring again as he's signed a 2 or 3 year (I forget which) contract with Mercedes GP, so, yeah...

Firstly with Schumacher he will not want to tarnish his reputation of being one of the greatest F1 drivers by having 2 or 3 poor seasons and to be out performed by his team mate. Also the length of a contract barely means anything look at footballers.

Secondly Massa may be able to outshine Alonso on his day but really Alonso is the better driver and that is how Ferrari see it. A double World Champion versus a Brazilian who nearly won it. Massa knows it and he will want to get out of there which is where sutil comes in.
 
That's just silly season nonsense IMO. Ferrari no better than to replace Massa (a downgrade IMO) with a guy who hasn't really proven himself yet and still makes some rather questionable mistakes at times.

If anything, Sutil may have a shot at a Renault or Mercedes GP seat in the next year or two, but I doubt that Schumacher will be throwing in his hat come the end of this year, as some of the rumors are saying. I personally think that if Mercedes can supply Schumacher a car which suits his driving style and something he feels very comfortable in, he is still likely just as fast as just about anyone on the grid (and he probably knows that in his head). Unfortunately he just doesn't seem as adaptable as he used to be or maybe as adaptable as some thought he was to begin with...which is why he is doing so poorly with the current car (which is a bit of a handful due to it's rather inconsistent balance).
 
What about Vettel,Rosberg,Glock,Heidfeld and Webber? Even Barrichello and Kovalainen are better than Sutil IMO.

Vettel and Webber won't want to change teams because they have a great car at the moment which is doing better than Ferrari.

Barrichello well he is not going to go back to Ferrari to be number 2 again.

Heidfield has not driven this season so Ferrari are not going to want him.

Glock is not as good as Sutil

Kovalainen failed at Mclaren so he is unlikely to succeed at Ferrari

Finally Rosberg is a better driver than Sutil and could be a possibility if Massa did leave but he seems happy at Mercedes and is easily outperforming Schumacher
 
Firstly with Schumacher he will not want to tarnish his reputation of being one of the greatest F1 drivers by having 2 or 3 poor seasons and to be out performed by his team mate. Also the length of a contract barely means anything look at footballers.

Secondly Massa may be able to outshine Alonso on his day but really Alonso is the better driver and that is how Ferrari see it. A double World Champion versus a Brazilian who nearly won it. Massa knows it and he will want to get out of there which is where sutil comes in.

Ridiculousness.

How many people honestly expected Schumacher to be at the front of the grid after a three year absence? Even so, for someone who's as rusty as he is, he's consistently finished in (at least) the top 10 all season, so the only thing that's being tarnished in the slightest is people's expectations and perceptions of him - which, again, is ridiculous. Again, Massa isn't going anywhere and Ferrari aren't going to let him go anywhere. The only possible way Massa would get the boot is if Raikonnen wanted to come back to Ferrari and even then...no.

No one doubts that Alonso has fantastic skill but it's really difficult to appreciate someone who bitches about everything when a race doesn't go the way he wants it to. He's been quiet for the past 2 or so races, but if I know Alonso like I do...he'll be bitching about something soon enough.
 
Glock is not as good as Sutil



Last season Glock got quite a few good results in a car that could be compared to this years Force India in terms of pace compared to the rest of the field.. Sutils best result this year is 5th.
 
That's just silly season nonsense IMO. Ferrari no better than to replace Massa (a downgrade IMO) with a guy who hasn't really proven himself yet and still makes some rather questionable mistakes at times.

If anything, Sutil may have a shot at a Renault or Mercedes GP seat in the next year or two, but I doubt that Schumacher will be throwing in his hat come the end of this year, as some of the rumors are saying. I personally think that if Mercedes can supply Schumacher a car which suits his driving style and something he feels very comfortable in, he is still likely just as fast as just about anyone on the grid (and he probably knows that in his head). Unfortunately he just doesn't seem as adaptable as he used to be or maybe as adaptable as some thought he was to begin with...which is why he is doing so poorly with the current car (which is a bit of a handful due to it's rather inconsistent balance).

I agree that Sutil has a chance for the Renault and Merecedes seat but Massa is going to leave Ferrari after that coded message earlier this year to a team where he will be number one which could be at Renault or Mercedes.

They may be able to change the Mercedes car around for Schumacher but there is not guarenteee. Will he risk another year of poor results
 
Firstly with Schumacher he will not want to tarnish his reputation of being one of the greatest F1 drivers by having 2 or 3 poor seasons and to be out performed by his team mate. Also the length of a contract barely means anything look at footballers.

Too late now...he can't erase what has already been done. Schumacher is no dumby and was well aware that success wasn't guaranteed to come over night when he signed the contract with Brawn/Mercedes. At this point he'll likely stay on the boat and ride it out, remaining optimistic that they can provide a car for him next year which will get the job done and that will suit his driving style much better. You don't become a 7x WDC by giving up easily, and I can almost assure you that this type of work ethic will be no different during his tenure at Mercedes GP.

Secondly Massa may be able to outshine Alonso on his day but really Alonso is the better driver and that is how Ferrari see it. A double World Champion versus a Brazilian who nearly won it. Massa knows it and he will want to get out of there which is where sutil comes in.

You speak as if this is some type of fact. Ferrari have made it well aware that Massa is to help Alonso for the remainder of this season, as he hadn't performed up to par early on when it mattered. Next year it is an even playing field for both drivers from the word go. So why would Massa want to leave a team which has so much strength and potential. Massa is more than aware that his biggest issue has been getting his tires up to proper tempature when it matters...when he gets his tires working properly he can go toe to toe with Alonso for the most part as we've seen during a few races this season. Also, Massa has been much more consistant than Alonso this season (which is just as important as speed) and is the ONLY driver on the grid without a DNF thus far this season.
 
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Ridiculousness.

How many people honestly expected Schumacher to be at the front of the grid after a three year absence? Even so, for someone who's as rusty as he is, he's consistently finished in (at least) the top 10 all season, so the only thing that's being tarnished in the slightest is people's expectations and perceptions of him - which, again, is ridiculous. Again, Massa isn't going anywhere and Ferrari aren't going to let him go anywhere. The only possible way Massa would get the boot is if Raikonnen wanted to come back to Ferrari and even then...no.

No one doubts that Alonso has fantastic skill but it's really difficult to appreciate someone who bitches about everything when a race doesn't go the way he wants it to. He's been quiet for the past 2 or so races, but if I know Alonso like I do...he'll be bitching about something soon enough.

Quite a lot of people thought that Schumacher was going to be good and at least get on the podium. So you are saying top ten is good for Schumacher a guy who has one of the best race to win ratios in history. He will not be happy with that.

Massa will leave. He siad he did not want to be a number 2 driver and at Ferrari he is and he knows it.
 
Quite a lot of people thought that Schumacher was going to be good and at least get on the podium. So you are saying top ten is good for Schumacher a guy who has one of the best race to win ratios in history. He will not be happy with that.

Massa will leave. He siad he did not want to be a number 2 driver and at Ferrari he is and he knows it.

Have you read any of his interviews during the beginning of the season? He was already aware he wasn't going to come out of a three year funk and be on the podium every race, or even for one race. He seemed agitated that people expected as much from him as they did. Look at Massa, he was away for a few months and look how unlike him he's been racing up until most recently.

You really can't be serious with what you're claiming.
 
Too late now...he can't erase what has already been done. Schumacher is no dumby and was well aware that success wasn't guaranteed to come over night when he signed the contract with Brawn/Mercedes. At this point he'll likely stay on the boat and ride it out, remaining optimistic that they can provide a car for him next year which will get the job done and that will suit his driving style much better. You don't become a 7x WDC by giving up easily, and I can almost assure you that this type of work ethic will be no different during his tenure at Mercedes GP.

You speak as if this is some type of fact. Ferrari have made it well aware that Massa is to help Alonso for the remainder of this season, as he hadn't performed up to par early on when it mattered. Next year it is an even playing field for both drivers from the word go. So why would Massa want to leave a team which has so much strength and potential. Massa is more than aware that his biggest issue has been getting his tires up to proper tempature when it matters...when he gets his tires working properly he can go toe to toe with Alonso for the most part as we've seen during a few races this season. Also, Massa has been much more consistant than Alonso this season (which is just as important as speed) and is the ONLY driver on the grid without a DNF thus far this season.

I am not saying Schumacher gives up easy i am just saying i would not be suprised if his 'neck injury' reappears some time during the off seasons which means he cannot race.

Ferrari told Massa to let Alonso through at Hockenheim which was the 11th race of 19 race season. Massa was some way behind him but he had plenty of time to make this up. They were supposed to be equal at the start of this seasons apart from the injury massa had recovered from but once again Ferrari dont pick Massa to win title. So why we he stay at a team that rarely chooses him as their first team driver
 
Have you read any of his interviews during the beginning of the season? He was already aware he wasn't going to come out of a three year funk and be on the podium every race, or even for one race. He seemed agitated that people expected as much from him as they did. Look at Massa, he was away for a few months and look how unlike him he's been racing up until most recently.

You really can't be serious with what you're claiming.

I can because there were high expectations of him and you can tell this by what the pundits and commentators said at the start of the season after Bahrain and Australia.
 
If we had a thread for ever rumour, no matter how vague and obscure, this place would be overrun with meaningless threads.
 
I can't imagine what Ferrari would have to gain by replacing Massa with someone who is, at most, just as good. Massa may not be happy with things as they are now, but there is no reason to expect that things would be the same way next year.


I can because there were high expectations of him and you can tell this by what the pundits and commentators said at the start of the season after Bahrain and Australia.
Those weren't high expectations. Those were unrealistic expectations. No one paid to talk about Formula 1 should have remotely thought that Schumacher would return to the sport and instantly start racking up victories and podiums. Such an idea is nonsense, and I am quite sure Schumacher himself would have said such if he was directly asked about it.
 
Doubtful, that will be silly speak.

Granted I can see Massa being unhappy, but Kubica and Alonso are very good friends so I could see A Kubica move if any, He needs tog et into one of the top teams.


I would if there was any move on the cards for Sutil it would be to merc. As much as I love Schue I just cant see merc giving him what he needs/wants
 
GM
Last season Glock got quite a few good results in a car that could be compared to this years Force India in terms of pace compared to the rest of the field.. Sutils best result this year is 5th.

Uhh, the TF109 was a better car than the VJM03. Qualified 1-2 once, took a few podiums, qualified high up in Q3 a few times. Glock isn't better than Sutil. If you ignore the rookie mistakes Sutil may make, and if he had good equipment, he's up there with Hamilton. Monza 2009, anyone?
 
Interesting, but very doubtful. Sutil is going to stay at Force India or move to Renault.

On Schumacher, its not so much whether Schumacher wants to quit, its whether Mercedes still want him....like Renault with Petrov, Schumacher has been vastly underperforming compared to his teammate, is he really worth the marketing anymore?
Amusing to think a top 10 finish is good enough, its not. Why is it so hard for people to understand why Schumacher was expected to do better...I mean its not really unfair expectations, its probably the best example of when expectations can be no higher! Mercedes are a front-running team, do they really want to be spending resources and time getting the old man up to speed? I personally don't think Schumacher has much more to give, we've given him 3/4 of a season and he still isn't cutting the mustard, what makes anyone think he will be much better next year?
Mercedes have already wasted time developing two car packages this year to "better suit Michael". Time to give up the charade and focus on Nico and hire a more competitive teammate.

I'd rather see Kobayashi at Ferrari. :D
 
I'd rather see Kobayashi at Ferrari. :D

That is asking for trouble and you know it! :nervous:

If Sutil is going to move anywhere, Renault are a good possibility because Petrov had done okay but Kubica has outshone him in the same machine. Give me a race where Petrov, without a mechanical failure on Kubica's part, has outperformed him?

Red Bull could be a possibility but it is a case of would be want to be like Webber is at the moment, which is IMO, being Vettel's rear end, Silverstone anyone????

Most of the top seats are locked out, Ferrari is locked out and McLaren for next year, he might go to Mercedes but all depends on what Schumi is going to do

In all likeliness, I see him staying another year at Force India and then maybe moving next year but, if he is going to move anywhere, Renault is going to be the place. they have a habit of producing young Germans into world champions!
 
Red Bull will no doubt hire from their junior teams, probably Buemi would be next in line to replace Webber or Vettel if that ever happened.
 
Give me a race where Petrov, without a mechanical failure on Kubica's part, has outperformed him?
Hungary. Kubica might have had the screw-up in the pits, but Petrov had the measure of him all weekend.

Red Bull will no doubt hire from their junior teams, probably Buemi would be next in line to replace Webber or Vettel if that ever happened.
Buemi has admitted he has his eye on Webber's seat for 2012.
 
Uhh, the TF109 was a better car than the VJM03. Qualified 1-2 once, took a few podiums, qualified high up in Q3 a few times. Glock isn't better than Sutil. If you ignore the rookie mistakes Sutil may make, and if he had good equipment, he's up there with Hamilton. Monza 2009, anyone?


Qualifying 1-2 isn't much of a bragging right when you drive a race free of collisions and mechanical problems to finish 3-7. The two cars are pretty similar in terms of relative pace.. The Toyota was either at the very front of the grid or at the back whereas the FI this year has generally been a strong midfielder throughout the whole year, with a few stronger races and a few bad ones.
 
Interesting, but very doubtful. Sutil is going to stay at Force India or move to Renault.

On Schumacher, its not so much whether Schumacher wants to quit, its whether Mercedes still want him....like Renault with Petrov, Schumacher has been vastly underperforming compared to his teammate, is he really worth the marketing anymore?
Amusing to think a top 10 finish is good enough, its not. Why is it so hard for people to understand why Schumacher was expected to do better...I mean its not really unfair expectations, its probably the best example of when expectations can be no higher! Mercedes are a front-running team, do they really want to be spending resources and time getting the old man up to speed? I personally don't think Schumacher has much more to give, we've given him 3/4 of a season and he still isn't cutting the mustard, what makes anyone think he will be much better next year?
Mercedes have already wasted time developing two car packages this year to "better suit Michael". Time to give up the charade and focus on Nico and hire a more competitive teammate.

I'd rather see Kobayashi at Ferrari. :D

Why? So Fernando can bitch about him being too risky and not wanting to let him by?

Again, back to Schumacher, some of you are expecting way too much (and in some sense being unfair) from someone who hasn't been in a competitive F1 seat for three years now. If you were expecting him to jump in a seat, fail two or three times, and then outrun everyone else then I honestly don't know what to tell you. Re-evaluate your expectations is one thing that comes to mind, and this coming from someone who's seeing him race for the first time without having to watch bits and pieces from off of Youtube during his "I will win everything" campaign with Ferrari. Let's for a second assume that Mercedes actually wants to get rid of Schumacher for whatever reason, and let's also forget that Ross is there as well - they get rid of Schumacher and he goes to say, Renault (hypothetical situation) what happens? Well, there's the possibility that since he's in a better car, you know, assuming Renault is able to keep their pace next season, he could perform to his own expectations and leave everyone with their mouths gaped.

Then what? Mercedes are going to look like fools, and Schumacher is going to be on the track trying to murder people again. :lol:

He's already tried to murder Barichello at Hungary and got a 10 grid penalty for it, and still finished in eleventh. Maybe it's because I wasn't expecting much from him this year to begin with considering the circumstances, but that's damn impressive to me.
 
I personally think that if Mercedes can supply Schumacher a car which suits his driving style and something he feels very comfortable in, he is still likely just as fast as just about anyone on the grid

lolwut?

At the start of the season everyone was predicting Schumacher to be a championship contender. To be honest I laughed away those expectations as those were total nonsense.

I think it's pretty obvious in what kind of shape Michael is in by looking at the scoring tables and how Nico has so far put the big legend to shame. It's harsh to put it this way, but that's just a fact.

Saying the car was more designed for Nico is bollocks, as we all know how much Ross Brawn loves his wonderboy Schumi. And there is no way you can blame the difference in points between him and Nico on the car.

Just accept the fact that the Schumacher we saw 3-4 years back is history. Without the Brawn-Todt combination and a team-mate who serves as his pet he is nowhere near as fast as drivers like Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel.
 
Saying the car was more designed for Nico is bollocks, as we all know how much Ross Brawn loves his wonderboy Schumi. And there is no way you can blame the difference in points between him and Nico on the car..

I never said the car WAS designed for Nico, so why bring it up?

My judgement from watching Michael's onboard footage (onboard footage from the race entirity from MB) from this year shows that he may no be quite as adaptable as he once was or maybe not as adaptable as people ever thought he was to begin with...OR that he's possibly lost it a bit. It's tough to say.

So far his lack of adaptability (compared to Nico) has been a huge problem this year (as well as lack of testing - which was something he used to maximize back in his day), as the car has some inherent balance issues which he just doesn't seem to be able to drive around nearly as well, or more importantly as constistanly as Nico has. Atm, I think this is the real difference between Schumacher and say Alonso and Hamilton who have proven that they can drive the wheels off just about anything and get the most out of it.

Just accept the fact that the Schumacher we saw 3-4 years back is history. Without the Brawn-Todt combination and a team-mate who serves as his pet he is nowhere near as fast as drivers like Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel.

Who's to say? You tell me that as if it is some gauranteed fact. I think only Schumacher truly knows the level of his abilities atm, and whether or not he still has it in him.

Lets give him another year or two so he can settle in and help work with the team (which is what makes him so good - he's not just another Raikkonen who relies on on his driving ability alone) to develop a chassis for next year on the Pirreli's which will help to put him in the zone.
 
I never said the car WAS designed for Nico, so why bring it up?

I brought it up in advance should you bring it up as an excuse for Schumacher for his rubbish performance this season.

Who's to say? You tell me that as if it is some gauranteed fact. Lets give him another year or two so he can settle in and help work with the team

Are you honestly seeing a 43 year old man beating the likes of Vettel, Alonso, Button and Hamilton?

Yeah, thought so.

I'd rather invest in a new talent rather than trying to clean off the dust off of an old one in hopes it will do as good as it did 5-6 years ago.
 
Are you honestly seeing a 43 year old man beating the likes of Vettel, Alonso, Button and Hamilton?

Yeah, thought so.

.

You thought what? :rolleyes:

Ruben's did pretty damn well against Button last year(could have possibly beaten him if he didn't have the brake issues in the first half of the season)...and how old is he?
 
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