SUV (Sport Utility Vehicles) and their Variations

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Hello, GTP. Quick intro, but you can expand with your replies.

Do you favor or dislike SUVs? Do you think all their variations are wonderful or horrible? This is a general topic as to whether SUVs are good, or if they are trying too hard to be different from other cars.

The reason I wanted to give a quick intro is because I didn't want to go overboard with me ranting on them. Well, the "5 Second" board is down, the lights are coming on... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... all five lights on, and the lights are off, your replies are underway! Am I right?
 
I want to know how one distinguishes "SUV's" from genuine Sports Utlilty vehicles?

For example, the Touareg and Cayenne have blistering performance and - by most motoring magazine accounts - great offroad* ability. That makes them genuine offroaders in my book.

Alternatively one has American creations like the Navigator, Tahoe and revoltingly styled Envoy which cannot boast either the onroad or offroad performance of their European rivals.

Then one has "softroaders" like the Land Rover Freelander, Toyota RAV4 and Nissan X-Trail that have average on- and offroad abilities and poor luggage storage to boot.

In my book "American style SUV's" (if I can call them that) are simply over-weight, over-sized relics. They offer no more room then a large, luxury European sedan and offer no offroad performance to justify their 'Utility Vehicle' tag.

The likes of the Cayenne, Touareg, Range Rover and X5 offer 'Sports' like performance and genuine offroad ability. The 'softroaders' offroad ability most likely matches or surpasses the SUV's offroad ability and matches their onroad performance.

Then one gets the likes of the Nissan Patrol, Toyota Prado Landcruiser and Pajero. All with established offroad abilities and onroad performance matching or exceeding that of the SUV.

All in all, I think the over-sized box's wafting around American highways are hardly "Sports" or "Utility" vehicles at all.


* Offroad performance in terms of approach and departure angles, ground clearance, electronic off road aides such as climb-assist, descend-assist and low ratio gears.

** No, this is not an attack in Americans, rather SUV's ;)
 
I have an SUV and I rather like it, while its considered a compact SUV it still fits me just fine. I can throw my crap in there and not have space issues. I can haul 3 other people with no problem, and I sit up higher then I would with a car.

Yes my SUV is not made for off road, but why would I need it to do that. There would be no point. My Blazer is 2wd so its not like I even bought it with off roading in mind.

And just to throw it out there Jeep was the first to create the SUV and the off roading segement. Just in case any one was wondering...the only reason I know this is because I watched it on the History Channel last night.....yes I said history channel.
 
Originally posted by Mike Rotch
I want to know how one distinguishes "SUV's" from genuine Sports Utlilty vehicles?

For example, the Touareg and Cayenne have blistering performance and - by most motoring magazine accounts - great offroad* ability. That makes them genuine offroaders in my book.

Alternatively one has American creations like the Navigator, Tahoe and revoltingly styled Envoy which cannot boast either the onroad or offroad performance of their European rivals.

Then one has "softroaders" like the Land Rover Freelander, Toyota RAV4 and Nissan X-Trail that have average on- and offroad abilities and poor luggage storage to boot.

In my book "American style SUV's" (if I can call them that) are simply over-weight, over-sized relics. They offer no more room then a large, luxury European sedan and offer no offroad performance to justify their 'Utility Vehicle' tag.

The likes of the Cayenne, Touareg, Range Rover and X5 offer 'Sports' like performance and genuine offroad ability. The 'softroaders' offroad ability most likely matches or surpasses the SUV's offroad ability and matches their onroad performance.

Then one gets the likes of the Nissan Patrol, Toyota Prado Landcruiser and Pajero. All with established offroad abilities and onroad performance matching or exceeding that of the SUV.

All in all, I think the over-sized box's wafting around American highways are hardly "Sports" or "Utility" vehicles at all.


* Offroad performance in terms of approach and departure angles, ground clearance, electronic off road aides such as climb-assist, descend-assist and low ratio gears.

** No, this is not an attack in Americans, rather SUV's ;)
Click to expand...

Please address Jeep's line of off road vehicles.
 
Originally posted by Mike Rotch

Alternatively one has American creations like the Navigator, Tahoe and revoltingly styled Envoy which cannot boast either the onroad or offroad performance of their European rivals.
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We've got to get this straight!

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Collective thought is that the top version, the GMC Envoy, is rather good-looking. I haven't heard anything bad about the bottom version, the GMC Envoy XL, but I personally find it to be the ugliest car of all-time, and I hate judging cars based on style. Is that what you're referring to?

In my book "American style SUV's" (if I can call them that) are simply over-weight, over-sized relics. They offer no more room then a large, luxury European sedan and offer no offroad performance to justify their 'Utility Vehicle' tag.
Click to expand...

They might offer no more leg room than most large sedans, but they certainly have more room for everything else. And with a few exceptions, American SUVs are very capable off-road - in nearly all cases, more capable than Japanese rivals.

All in all, I think the over-sized box's wafting around American highways are hardly "Sports" or "Utility" vehicles at all.
Click to expand...

Living in South Africa it might be pretty easy to make this statement, but here these SUVs are - in large part - no longer than our family sedans. Everyone sees our SUVs and thinks 'wow, big' but really they aren't when compared to the rest of our market. And stuff like the Navigator and downscale twin Ford Expedition doesn't sell particularly well - our top-selling SUVs are the Ford Explorer (two inches shorter than the Saab 9-5), Ford Escape (five inches shorter than the Audi A4) and Jeep Grand Cherokee (three inches shorter than the Subaru Legacy).
 
I think I said this before...SUV are stupid when they are used on road for purposes other than towing or hauling. And SUVs should be designed with that in mind. Why get and X5, no matter how well it handles, when you can get equal (or..I think...more) cargo room and handling and looks (in my opinion) if you buy a 540i wagon?

SUVs should all be full-frame, part-time 4WD brutes. They are for (a) off-roading or (b) towing. Snowy winters? Get a Legacy, or 4Motion Passat, or Quattro Audi. Home Depot? Ditto the previos chioces, and add other wagons like the Lancer. Hauling people? Get a minivan.

That said, I like the Pathfinder Armada just because it's engine sounds so muscular. If you want a big, full-frame vehicle with a V8, you choices are admittedly slim: Crown Vic or SUV. So I can appreciate the SUV choice made by some people, although I would personally take the Crown Vic over any SUV, including the X5.
 
Originally posted by skip0110
I think I said this before...SUV are stupid when they are used on road for purposes other than towing or hauling. And SUVs should be designed with that in mind. Why get and X5, no matter how well it handles, when you can get equal (or..I think...more) cargo room and handling and looks (in my opinion) if you buy a 540i wagon?
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As I'm one of very few people on Earth right now seriously looking at a Porsche Cayenne Turbo, I'll stick up for the X5.

No wagon can equal the X5 4.6is for acceleration, 540 wagon included. And of course the 540 wagon has been cancelled so unless you're intent on waiting at least eight months or getting an obsolete design, you're screwed there. Obvious exception are the high-performance Audis, but have a look at that - America never got the RS6 Avant, the S6 Avant was cancelled after just one model year, and the S4 Biturbo had just one year. The only real competitor is the new S4 V8 - and if you don't like that... X5 is the one.

SUVs should all be full-frame, part-time 4WD brutes. They are for (a) off-roading or (b) towing. Snowy winters? Get a Legacy, or 4Motion Passat, or Quattro Audi. Home Depot? Ditto the previos chioces, and add other wagons like the Lancer. Hauling people? Get a minivan.
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I completely agree, but have a serious look at what you're saying. Many people buy SUVs for two features: size and all-wheel drive. At around a midsize SUV's size, there are only eight or nine wagons with AWD - at a midsize SUV's price, just one - the Subaru Outback (Passat's $33600 is deep into premium SUV territory), which is already the best-selling non-SUV with all- or four-wheel drive. I think zillions upon zillions more people would trade in a Highlander or an Escape for an AWD wagon, even if it's just for the fuel savings and lower profile, but there are really no alternatives but the Outback. If someone can explain why there's no Accord AWD wagon or Galant AWD wagon, I'd love to hear it - but it's a segment ALL manufacturers should be in.
 
Let's take a look at all the different SUV concepts and such I've heard:

SUV, SUT, XUT, SAV (Sports Activity Vehicle, BMW), Baby Ute, crossover SUV...

Just too many of them. Now they want to make luxury SUVs more like convertibles with the retractable roof. I mean, I kind of think SUVs try too hard. And don't forget their gas consumption as well.
 
Do not look at SUV as a vehicle itself. It is also a psychological factor as well. As portrayed by Maslow's hiearchy of needs, SUVs are more potent than your typical sedan in terms of safety needs, esteem needs, and self-actualization needs. For example, your grilfriend is fed up with that Honda Civic after she has three sons and her grandparents in law come to your house every week. She don't like her grandparents in law, yet she can't tell them to drive their own car. What can she do? Buy a SUV and let them sit in the back seat. This makes them think she has class (self-actualization), the car feels safer (safety), and she will be more confident that they're not talking behind her back about her financial status because this isn't a cheap $5,000 Honda Civic, but a $50,000 Escalade (self esteem). Simple reasons other than what the car can do inside the hood, but more so inside the cargo. If you've seen the Dodge Durango commericals, this statement should support the SUV popularity further.

However, certain negative factors I should point out:

SUVs are much more restless than any other types (more so than minivans and medium-sized trucks) due to its high height.

In general, high height decreases central stability (think of it as a piece of wood supported by a pole in the middle. The higher the wood is, the more prone it will shake/fall) and increases body roll when turning as all have a high center of gravity. This becomes more prone to accidents.

TCS, ABS, and other stabilizing jargons are now standard, even though they're more for marketing purposes. The idea is to let the driver relax as he/she feels more secured by its safety features.

Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
 
I tend to think SUVs are more of the new direction of station wagons. SUVs are more sporty and aggressive and carry more. But if you ask me, I'm only 21 years old, so if I had a family of maybe 3 by the time I'm the average age of a NASCAR Nextel Cup driver, I'd still prefer a van because they are still every bit as stylish as a car, but not bulky and overdone like an SUV. And also, I'd only have an SUV either for off-roading, or hardly ever. If you ask me, I'd rather have a van than an SUV. I don't need to carry something big if all I want to do is go around town.

The only advantage I'd say SUVs have is that they have a better chance of going through high water efficientely. And to me, that's about it. But I do love the Lexus SUV they got. The latest Lexus SUV is every bit as alluring from any angle.
 
Originally posted by milefile
Please address Jeep's line of off road vehicles.
Click to expand...

Heh. An exception to every rule. But, then again, they have a long history of offroad vehicles and if I am not mistaken, the Wrangler preceeded the Cherokee. This quality offroader would naturally influence its successors.

Collective thought is that the top version, the GMC Envoy, is rather good-looking. I haven't heard anything bad about the bottom version, the GMC Envoy XL, but I personally find it to be the ugliest car of all-time, and I hate judging cars based on style. Is that what you're referring to?
Click to expand...

True, it looks ok in pics, but when I saw one in real life, it just looked bulky and awkwardly styled at the rear :confused:

They might offer no more leg room than most large sedans, but they certainly have more room for everything else. And with a few exceptions, American SUVs are very capable off-road - in nearly all cases, more capable than Japanese rivals.
Click to expand...

I dont know this, but you can tell me as you probably know all the stats. Do SUV's such as the Navigator and Envoy (and others I dont know the names of) comes with 4wd? Landcruisers and Patrols do. Well, here anyway.

Living in South Africa it might be pretty easy to make this statement, but here these SUVs are - in large part - no longer than our family sedans. Everyone sees our SUVs and thinks 'wow, big' but really they aren't when compared to the rest of our market. And stuff like the Navigator and downscale twin Ford Expedition doesn't sell particularly well - our top-selling SUVs are the Ford Explorer (two inches shorter than the Saab 9-5), Ford Escape (five inches shorter than the Audi A4) and Jeep Grand Cherokee (three inches shorter than the Subaru Legacy).
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Conceded ;)
 
Originally posted by 19xx
Do not look at SUV as a vehicle itself. It is also a psychological factor as well.
Click to expand...

It's a psychological factor for people to tell SUV owners why they (we!) buy SUVs.

I dont know this, but you can tell me as you probably know all the stats. Do SUV's such as the Navigator and Envoy (and others I dont know the names of) comes with 4wd? Landcruisers and Patrols do. Well, here anyway.
Click to expand...

There is not one SUV on the American market that doesn't offer all- or four-wheel drive. Many of the most popular SUVs and almost all imported premium/luxury SUVs have all- or four-wheel drive standard.
 
Originally posted by Mike Rotch
... if I am not mistaken, the Wrangler preceeded the Cherokee.
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You are mistaken. :p

The full-size SJ Cherokee debuted as a '74 model as a sporty two-door version of the Wagoneer. The smaller XJ Cherokee debuted as an '84 model. The YJ Wrangler's first model year was '87.

Maybe you think of CJ's as "Wranglers"... :confused:
 
Originally posted by pimp racer
No i dont really like any SUVs really i rather have a Honda odessy or someting more room great mileage and looks pretty good.
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I agree. I recently had a debate wityh a
couple of my friends who are absoulte Cayenne freaks, and I brought up this point, but just got laughed at.

SUVs are mostly just tall wagons for insecure people.
 
Originally posted by 240Z

SUVs are mostly just tall wagons for insecure people.
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As much as I don't care what you say, I'd love you to answer this point that I made earlier:

Many people buy SUVs for two features: size and all-wheel drive. At around a midsize SUV's size, there are only eight or nine wagons with AWD - at a midsize SUV's price, just one - the Subaru Outback (Passat's $33600 is deep into premium SUV territory), which is already the best-selling non-SUV with all- or four-wheel drive. I think zillions upon zillions more people would trade in a Highlander or an Escape for an AWD wagon, even if it's just for the fuel savings and lower profile, but there are really no alternatives but the Outback.

So let's pretend you're looking at midsize SUVs for $28000 and you don't like the Outback. What do you do? According to you, nothing, because otherwise you're labeled 'insecure.' So if you're in that class you're simply out of luck. :(
 
Originally posted by 240Z
SUVs are mostly just tall wagons for insecure people.
Click to expand...

I just think it is a symptom of the attitude of society in general that vehicles are getting bigger and more intimidating. Look at the H2, for example. 90% of people will hardly ever take it offroad, it's practically a menace to any vehicle (besides another large SUV) around it, yet they are selling like hotcakes, just so people can look nice and supposedly be safer.
 
Originally posted by 240Z
I just think it is a symptom of the attitude of society in general that vehicles are getting bigger and more intimidating. Look at the H2, for example. 90% of people will hardly ever take it offroad, it's practically a menace to any vehicle (besides another large SUV) around it, yet they are selling like hotcakes, just so people can look nice and supposedly be safer.
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Fine, but you said mostly. For the H2 and every example like it, I can think of a hundred examples where SUVs are not menaces owned by insecure people. Yes, there are SUVs where people just want something larger, and those people are jackasses, but it's rarely the case.
 
I'm not saying the pople themselves are insecure. And how is a H2 not a physical menace to anyone driving down the road in a small car or a motorcycle? I'm not talking about the people driving them, just the size/shape of the car.
 
Originally posted by 240Z
I'm not saying the pople themselves are insecure.
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:odd: You sure?

And how is a H2 not a physical menace to anyone driving down the road in a small car or a motorcycle? I'm not talking about the people driving them, just the size/shape of the car.
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It is - but 80% of SUVs aren't.
 
Society as a whole is insecure. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

I was using the H2 as an example, as it is the most overtly dangerous, and it seems like everyone in my area has one or wants one.
 
80% of SUV's arn't? The Armada, the Denali, the Escalade (any model let alone the denali ripoff) or whatever it is.... The Cheyenne, the Tucson, the Durango, the Land Rover, the only ones left that are decent is the......uhhh......Well the others are....ugly..
 
Originally posted by Driftster
80% of SUV's arn't? The Armada, the Denali, the Escalade (any model let alone the denali ripoff) or whatever it is.... The Cheyenne, the Tucson, the Durango, the Land Rover, the only ones left that are decent is the......uhhh......Well the others are....ugly..
Click to expand...

The only ones that are physically menacing to me are the Dodge Durango, Chevrolet Suburban, Nissan Pathfinder Armada, Ford Excursion, GMC Yukon XL, Chevrolet Tahoe, GMC Yukon, Ford Expedition, Toyota Sequoia, Cadillac Escalade, Lincoln Navigator, Toyota Land Cruiser, Range Rover, Mercedes G-class, Lexus LX470 and Hummer H2.

The ones that aren't to me are the Saturn Vue, Jeep Liberty, Hyundai Santa Fe, Ford Escape, Mazda Tribute, Subaru Forester, Kia Sorento, Honda Element, Honda CR-V, Jeep Wrangler, Toyota RAV4, Suzuki Vitara, Nissan Xterra, Chevrolet Blazer 2-door, Mitsubishi Outlander, Suzuki Grand Vitara, Chevrolet Tracker, Chevrolet Blazer 4-door, Mitsubishi Montero Sport, Nissan Murano, Isuzu Axiom, Isuzu Rodeo, Chrysler Pacifica, Chevrolet Trailblazer, Chevrolet Trailblazer EXT, Nissan Pathfinder, GMC Envoy, GMC Envoy XL, Honda Pilot, Porsche Cayenne, Buick Rainier, Toyota Highlander, Toyota 4Runner, Pontiac Aztek, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Buick Rendezvous, Mitsubishi Endeavor, Suzuki XL-7, Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer, Mitsubishi Montero, Volkswagen Touareg, Acura MDX, Infiniti FX, Volvo XC90, Lincoln Aviator, Mercedes ML-class, Lexus RX330, BMW X3, BMW X5, Land Rover Discovery, Lexus GX470, and Land Rover Freelander.

I didn't think I'd do all of them...
 

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