SUV's are obsolete

  • Thread starter Thread starter Poverty
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You won't get a good representation for a couple reasons.

- One you are asking 1000 people at the max, and since there are 250 million people in America that's not even 1 percent. You can't even make a Bell Curve.

- Two you are asking people on a video game forum who are mostly between 14-20.

- Three if you ask someone from say Arizona if they have a boat they will probably say no, you ask someone from Michigan they will say yes.

So your study will pretty much suck.

The Escalade is going through deep mud and down small woodland trails. If you don't see it then I believe that's your problem. Read the article and look in the gallery. Not bad for some that you consider to be un needed. So me a A6 wagon going down a woodland trail in the mud loaded with gear.
 
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What this?

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audi allroad
The adaptive system offers five modes, the on-road options ranging from Dynamic, which lowers the body to a ground clearance of 125mm for minimal drag at motorway speeds, to Comfort, which positions the car 140mm above ground level for optimum cruising refinement. The allroad mode for off-road use increases ground clearance to 175mm, and for particularly tricky manoeuvres at speeds of up to 22mph a Lift mode is also available giving total clearance of 185mm.

Customers wanting to take the off-road capabilities of the new A6 allroad quattro to even greater extremes can opt at extra cost for purpose-built all-terrain tyres and a reinforced engine under-guard.
 
LOOK AT THE PHOTO GALLERY!!!

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And words aren't a picture.
 
BlazinXtreme
You won't get a good representation for a couple reasons.

- One you are asking 1000 people at the max, and since there are 250 million people in America that's not even 1 percent. You can't even make a Bell Curve.
Well, just to set the record straight, the number of people in a sample needed to get an accurate result is independent of the size of the population. If we want 5% precision and 95% confidence (pretty standard for political polls), in the worst case we need to poll 400 people (actually the statisitical minumum to achieve those results is 385 people)--regardless of population size.

But that is assumming we get a random crossection of the poplation. Which, as you correctly noted, is going to be pretty hard on a video game forum:

- Two you are asking people on a video game forum who are mostly between 14-20.
 
That picture is tiny and its hard to see, so me an actual size picture.
 
Water is different then mud, my little lowered Blazer can drive through a puddle on a dirt road.
 
BlazinXtreme
Water is different then mud, my little lowered Blazer can drive through a puddle on a dirt road.


The audi allroad would also make mincemeat of what that escalade just drove through. A lowly BMW X3 could do that.

lcto_01_04_12a.jpg
 
Well since you have 0 exprience with Michigan back woods I'm going to have to call you an idiot on that one. Michigan backwoods have insanely deep pockets of mud that are marsh and lake fed. The Audi would get stuck trying to go through mud like that I would think. I've seriously seen Hummer have problems with it. You need to know what the hell you are doing when you attemp Michigan back woods.

And all you've shown me is an Audi driving down a dry hard packed road.
 
Ooooo I get called a idiot by the streetracer.

What is the ride height of the escalade?

Also which car do you think has more traction and the overall better 4wd system?
 
You are an idiot because you don't know what you are talking about, you live in England and I'm guessing have never been to Michigan.

Streetracer? I don't street race.

The ground clearence of the Escalade is 9 inches or 270mm, which beats the Audi by quite a bit, like 3 more inches...which is helpful.

The car with the best traction system in a 4wd? Not entirely sure but I've seen the traction systems on the Subarus and I was impressed. But with cars I have no idea. With trucks the Hummer H1 is still the best thing out there if you want to drive through and over anything.

But the system only does so much, I can swap the tires on anything and have an entirely different vehicle.
 
BlazinXtreme
You are an idiot because you don't know what you are talking about, you live in England and I'm guessing have never been to Michigan.

Streetracer? I don't street race.

The ground clearence of the Escalade is 9 inches or 270mm, which beats the Audi by quite a bit, like 3 more inches...which is helpful.

The car with the best traction system in a 4wd? Not entirely sure but I've seen the traction systems on the Subarus and I was impressed. But with cars I have no idea. With trucks the Hummer H1 is still the best thing out there if you want to drive through and over anything.

But the system only does so much, I can swap the tires on anything and have an entirely different vehicle.


Look mate I couldnt give two flying ****s about michigan. You dont see me saying " yeah but in england". We are talking about the world in general. It doesnt matter if your from timbucktwo or sweden, a good offroader is still a good offroader. And the H1 hummer is the best for deserts. If your talking off roading over rocks and mud its far from the best.

Also audi's 4WD system is better than that of subarus.

You said in your blog that you streetraced.
 
Ok that's better, but you don't consider that an SUV? Looks like an SUV to me now that I see it jacked up like that. But looking at it I'm going to pretty much say that thing isn't stock since there is sponsorship decals on it.

But what it boils down to is, the Audi isn't an overly expensive station wagon with a little bit of off road capabilities, while the Escalade is nothing more then a reskined Tahoe. A car will never be as good as a truck off the pavement when you look at them stock for stock.
 
BlazinXtreme
The car with the best traction system in a 4wd? Not entirely sure but I've seen the traction systems on the Subarus and I was impressed. But with cars I have no idea. With trucks the Hummer H1 is still the best thing out there if you want to drive through and over anything.
The 4WD in my Civic was far superior to the Subaru I drive now becasue it had a low range for creeping. That seems like the most important thing, at least in a stick shift 4WD/AWD car. Autos might be different, I have never owned one...
BlazinXtreme
Ok that's better, but you don't consider that an SUV? Looks like an SUV to me now that I see it jacked up like that. But looking at it I'm going to pretty much say that thing isn't stock since there is sponsorship decals on it.
Thats the standard air suspension...
 
Poverty
Look mate I couldnt give two flying ****s about michigan. You dont see me saying " yeah but in england". We are talking about the world in general. It doesnt matter if your from timbucktwo or sweden, a good offroader is still a good offroader. And the H1 hummer is the best for deserts. If your talking off roading over rocks and mud its far from the best.

Also audi's 4WD system is better than that of subarus.

You said in your blog that you streetraced.

First off don't swear, I'm pretty sure we can do this with out swearing. But really I don't have much to compare to since I live in Michigan. I'm not going to say that its better for Africa because I just don't know and neither do you.

The H1 can go over rocks with no problems. They are built to do anything and everything.

desert_hummer-lg.jpg

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Like I said though tires make the different, whether you care to see that or not.

And I don't street race, I drive a Blazer.
 
First off, let's take off the gloves and chill.

Second, you can't compare "apples and oranges".

Michigan is indeed different from England.

In England, not as many "regular" folks have two residences, or recreational water-craft.

The cars built in Europe consider European needs.
The cars built in the US take into account what we need.
As those needs are very different the cars are different.
So, let's bury this particular "hatchet" (not in each other's heads by the way) and agree to disagree on this point.

In the US, the Big Three, make credible SUV's and Trucks meeting our needs.
The SUV's from Japan and Europe are fine for "simple" bad weather and light to moderate off-road duty. Heavy duty if fairly unencumbered.
Remember the old Land Rover and Toyota Land Cruiser could, would and did serve as the off road vehicle of choice before SUV's were ever thought of.
And Detroit learned a lot from those old off-roaders that has been incorporated into what we drive today.

And as for the original question No, SUV's are not obsolete. As long as there is a demand, the automakers will continue to build stuff to meet it.
 
Gil
First off, let's take off the gloves and chill.

Second, you can't compare "apples and oranges".

Michigan is indeed different from England.

In England, not as many "regular" folks have two residences, or recreational water-craft.

The cars built in Europe consider European needs.
The cars built in the US take into account what we need.
As those needs are very different the cars are different.
So, let's bury this particular "hatchet" (not in each other's heads by the way) and agree to disagree on this point.

In the US, the Big Three, make credible SUV's and Trucks meeting our needs.
The SUV's from Japan and Europe are fine for "simple" bad weather and light to moderate off-road duty. Heavy duty if fairly unencumbered.
Remember the old Land Rover and Toyota Land Cruiser could, would and did serve as the off road vehicle of choice before SUV's were ever thought of.
And Detroit learned a lot from those old off-roaders that has been incorporated into what we drive today.

And as for the original question No, SUV's are not obsolete. As long as there is a demand, the automakers will continue to build stuff to meet it.

Fair enough Gil, I can fully respect what you are saying and I can do the agree to disagree thing.
 
BlazinXtreme
Well since you have 0 exprience with Michigan back woods I'm going to have to call you an idiot on that one. Michigan backwoods have insanely deep pockets of mud that are marsh and lake fed. The Audi would get stuck trying to go through mud like that I would think. I've seriously seen Hummer have problems with it.

Well if a Hummer has problems with it, and it's an SUV, then what's the point of arguing over what can survive there? If what is considered the best stock SUV gets stuck, then why are you arguing that wagens etc can't do it when most SUVs can't?
 
Because if a Hummer can't do it, there is no way a wagon can even get close.
 
BlazinXtreme
Traction can only help so much. And SUV's are getting much safer in terms of roll overs.
Fine. I'll agree to disagree. The fact remains though, that it is far more practical, efficient and competent than almost any SUV. Probably safer than many of them too.
BlazinXtreme
I live in Detroit where everybody that is anybody for GM lives. So you'd think they would buy them, but they don't. The Hummer is a niche vehicle that's made for things other then the road. Hummer's are far more capialbe the Jeeps.
I know no one buys them. I never said that either. But the funny thing is, no one buys them anywhere. The simple fact is that it is a horrible vehicle for anyone to own. Period. It's good off-road (but not the best, especially for the money) and downright appaling anywhere else. And about the Jeep: Is the Hummer $130,000 more capable than a Wrangler? I can guarantee you that if you spent $130,000 on it a Jeep would destroy a Hummer in every single category imaginable. Hell, you could put spacers in teh suspnsion of a 15 year old Carrera 4 and it would go anywhere a Hummer could.

BlazinXtreme
The Fusion is a sedan, the Maxx is a hatch back. The only station wagon there is the Magnum, which doesn't sell to well. Hatch's sell decently...the Golf, Focus, Matrix...they all sell decently well. And youre full size truck arguement is void...have you ever sat in the middle of the bench seat? Or better yet in the extended cab of a truck? Probably not, because it's almost impossible for anyone over 5'5" to ride back there. SUV's offer more room.
I meant the other Ford. I can never remeber what it is, so whatever. Once again, though, the fact that they don't buy them doesn't mean crap. People didn't buy Mazda RX-7's when they sold them here. What does that mean? It's a horrible car?
And by the way, yes. I have. I have sat in a normal extended cab Silverado. In fact, my mom owns one. So I sit back there almost every day. There is plenty of room. I can only imagine the room in a crew cab or Dodge Mega Cab.

BlazinXtreme
Once again a Mangum can't pull a boat, the engine can, the suspension can't and neither can the transmisson.
When did I say it could? I could, however, think of a couple wagons that could though.
BlazinXtreme
People shouldn't buy station wagons...they SHOULD buy what they like.
I like Bugatti EB110's. Should I buy one even if I could? No. It's impractical, horrible in a town, probably ghastly to maintain, etc. All I was saying was that wagons are a far better alternative to an SUV the majority of the time. Not "In Michigan, where everyone has a log cabin and a boat." Most of the time. Like in L.A., where SUV's roll with 24" wheels. Or Washington D.C., where many arelike new, despite being 20 years old.
BlazinXtreme
I can think of 5 or 6 supercars in my area (Oakland County which is one of the richest counties) and I bet none of them take it to the track. I see more Miatas at the track then anything. SUV owners around here at least drive through the snow, mud, etc.
Again, most of the time. Also, had I been more broad and just said "use the cars to near their full abilities," what would you say then?


BlazinXtreme
And I want to know one more then, what does this make me? I have a 2wd SUV that's no bigger then a four door Golf. It's also lower then one. Explain to me how my SUV is pointless.
I'm not sure where your going with this, but you just said it yourself: 2WD SUV that is the same size as a 4-door Golf. Unless you've found some magic toggle switch in your Blazer, it is slower, less fuel effiecient, less practical, more expensive, not as refined and has less space than a 4-door Golf. It better be able to tow a pretty huge boat to compensate for all of that.
BlazinXtreme
LOOK AT THE PHOTO GALLERY!!!
The day I see any privately-owned Escalade doing that is the day I will commit a felony.
 
BlazinXtreme
Because if a Hummer can't do it, there is no way a wagon can even get close.

If a Hummer can't do it, it's a moot point. Closed.

Those pics of the Escalade are sick! The problem with the Escalade is that once it's dirty you can't open the doors! My dad looked at Escalades but went for the Yukon because the interior on the Escalade didn't match what he wanted. The rear of our truck is pretty damn stained with mud as it is now :lol:

I'd like one of those new Yukons, though, and it was nice to see an Escalade dirty for the first time...ever. Ditto on what Toronado said about a privately-owned one...
 
I know no one buys them. I never said that either. But the funny thing is, no one buys them anywhere. The simple fact is that it is a horrible vehicle for anyone to own. Period. It's good off-road (but not the best, especially for the money) and downright appaling anywhere else. And about the Jeep: Is the Hummer $130,000 more capable than a Wrangler? I can guarantee you that if you spent $130,000 on it a Jeep would destroy a Hummer in every single category imaginable. Hell, you could put spacers in teh suspnsion of a 15 year old Carrera 4 and it would go anywhere a Hummer could.

But would it outlast a Hummer? Probably not. Hummers are insanely durable vehicles even in not HMMV form. They can take a ton of punishment and still be running fine at the end of the day. The reason they cost so much is because they are way over engineered. Jeeps are built cheaper and could not withstand the punishment the a H1 could.

And if I put 130 grand into anything I could make it awesome...I bet fot a 130 grand I could make a Civic an off road beast.

I meant the other Ford. I can never remeber what it is, so whatever. Once again, though, the fact that they don't buy them doesn't mean crap. People didn't buy Mazda RX-7's when they sold them here. What does that mean? It's a horrible car?
And by the way, yes. I have. I have sat in a normal extended cab Silverado. In fact, my mom owns one. So I sit back there almost every day. There is plenty of room. I can only imagine the room in a crew cab or Dodge Mega Cab.

Why does you mom own a truck? Does she use it? Does she go off road, pull boats, drive over God and Creation? If not why didn't she just but a Honda Ridgeline? As you can tell I'm just using the same arguement back on you because a Silverado is no different then a Tahoe...a Tahoe just has seats instead of a bed.

And sitting in the back of those things suck.

When did I say it could? I could, however, think of a couple wagons that could though.

You might not have but it's was said quite a bit in this thread.

I like Bugatti EB110's. Should I buy one even if I could? No. It's impractical, horrible in a town, probably ghastly to maintain, etc. All I was saying was that wagons are a far better alternative to an SUV the majority of the time. Not "In Michigan, where everyone has a log cabin and a boat." Most of the time. Like in L.A., where SUV's roll with 24" wheels. Or Washington D.C., where many arelike new, despite being 20 years old.

Let people do what they want, if they want an Escalade with 24's then more power to them. I personally don't care what you drive. Which is my whole basis for argueing for SUV's.

Again, most of the time. Also, had I been more broad and just said "use the cars to near their full abilities," what would you say then?

Use a car to it's full ablities? Then every person who owns a BMW better take corners as fast as they can, everyone who a Viper should drive 180mph, everyone with a Civic should drive to and from work, everyone with an SUV should pull 8,000 pounds, and everyone with a German tune car should never leave the Ring.

I'm not sure where your going with this, but you just said it yourself: 2WD SUV that is the same size as a 4-door Golf. Unless you've found some magic toggle switch in your Blazer, it is slower, less fuel effiecient, less practical, more expensive, not as refined and has less space than a 4-door Golf. It better be able to tow a pretty huge boat to compensate for all of that.

The Blazer is not slower for sure, it's cheaper 17,000 vs. 21,000. I doubt it has less space. So the Golf gets better mileage...then engine is also half the displacement and doesn't have 2 cylinders.

But lets let the number talk:

Blazer 2x4 Xtreme package: 190hp, 250lb.ft., I average 21mpg with mixed driving, 100 inch wheel base, and can tow 2,000lbs.(more if non Xtreme) I also have 60 cubic feet of space.

Golf: 115hp, 122lb.ft., 28mpg with mixed driving, 98inch wheel base, and can tow nothing, it has no tow rating. It has 40 cubic feet of space.

It gets better mileage and but it's more expensive.
 
iceburns288
If a Hummer can't do it, it's a moot point. Closed.

Those pics of the Escalade are sick! The problem with the Escalade is that once it's dirty you can't open the doors! My dad looked at Escalades but went for the Yukon because the interior on the Escalade didn't match what he wanted. The rear of our truck is pretty damn stained with mud as it is now :lol:

I'd like one of those new Yukons, though, and it was nice to see an Escalade dirty for the first time...ever. Ditto on what Toronado said about a privately-owned one...


It's not that you would do it with an Escalade, it's the fact that if one so desires they can. Just like the Cayenne can go off road but you'll never see one there.
 
BlazinXtreme
Why does you mom own a truck? Does she use it? Does she go off road, pull boats, drive over God and Creation? If not why didn't she just but a Honda Ridgeline? As you can tell I'm just using the same arguement back on you because a Silverado is no different then a Tahoe...a Tahoe just has seats instead of a bed.
Yes and yes. Yes. My dad also uses it to carry stuff like rocks in the bed. In fact, she chose it over a Tahoe because she wanted a bed.
BlazinXtreme
Let people do what they want, if they want an Escalade with 24's then more power to them. I personally don't care what you drive. Which is my whole basis for argueing for SUV's.
Well, actually, truth be told, I drive a Blazer as well, but I do use it to go off-road quite a bit (or did, before the engine went), and also carried stuff in it.
BlazinXtreme
Use a car to it's full ablities? Then every person who owns a BMW better take corners as fast as they can, everyone who a Viper should drive 180mph, everyone with a Civic should drive to and from work, everyone with an SUV should pull 8,000 pounds, and everyone with a German tune car should never leave the Ring.
Actually, yes. Because if they don't at least once they shouldn't have bought it.
BlazinXtreme
The Blazer is not slower for sure, it's cheaper 17,000 vs. 21,000. I doubt it has less space. So the Golf gets better mileage...then engine is also half the displacement and doesn't have 2 cylinders.
Golfs start at $16k, and is a far more refined vehicle.
BlazinXtreme
But lets let the number talk:
Blazer 2x4 Xtreme package: 190hp, 250lb.ft., I average 21mpg with mixed driving, 100 inch wheel base, and can tow 2,000lbs.(more if non Xtreme) I also have 60 cubic feet of space.
Golf: 115hp, 122lb.ft., 28mpg with mixed driving, 98inch wheel base, and can tow nothing, it has no tow rating. It has 40 cubic feet of space.
It gets better mileage and but it's more expensive.
Diesel Golf: 100 BHP, 177 lb. ft. torque. 45-47 MPG mixed driving.
 
The Escalade also does NOT have a 4WD Low. I only know this cause some lady let herself get talked into a Esky, instead of a Yukon or Suburban, and was scared to drive it down her driveway in the winter cause it didn't have a 4LOW to let her "crab" it down the driveway in the snow.

Toronado, Please read my last post.
 
Holy cow, a HUGE argument erupted while I was gone, eh??

I'll make my point.

Went to auto show yesterday in Vancouver. There were several Hummer H2s. It seated 5 of my friends inside, with absolutely no discomfort; it still had huge amounts of leg room, knee room, and headroom left. And my friends are around 5'8" - 6'1". I am 6'0". My point: Hummers are spacious, they are meant for it, and people who buys those kind of cars dont care much about gas mileage. Especially when the one I got into was priced at near $70,000.

About the Hummer H1 vs. Wrangler debate: Yes, Wrangler can do things that Hummer H1 can do for fraction of price, but not everyone is sensitive to price. Some people want style. H1 looks just like a Army Humvee, and thats why they get them. Tough looks. Wrangler doesnt have the tough looks, or the gunslit window, or seats 5 with spaces to spare.
 
Yes and yes. Yes. My dad also uses it to carry stuff like rocks in the bed. In fact, she chose it over a Tahoe because she wanted a bed.

But do you use it all the time? More then likely not, which is what SUV owner do. They don't use the full potential to their vehicle all the time. Tahoe's and Silverados are the same thing, one has seats, one has a bed. They both have there uses.

Actually, yes. Because if they don't at least once they shouldn't have bought it.

Everyone will use the potential of their vehicle at least once, I've pulled trailers, put 4 people, put gear, and done other things with my truck. In fact I use the cargo room quite often...like a few time a week.

Golfs start at $16k, and is a far more refined vehicle.

Now I went out and looked at Golf's for a time and I could not find a Golf that cheap anywhere I looked. But still if they start at 16 thats only a grand less then I paid for the Blazer, and I got the Xtreme kit on mine which added to the price. As for refinement I think thats up to the person driving. A 16k isn't going to have much in it, neither is a Blazer but I actually enjoy the way the Blazer feels over a Golf. Matter of what you like I guess.

Diesel Golf: 100 BHP, 177 lb. ft. torque. 45-47 MPG mixed driving.

That's diesel, they don't sell diesel Blazers in the US...other parts of the world yes, but I'm not to knowledgeable on them.
 
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