SUV's are obsolete

[Poverty]

The DIY business in the UK is absoluetly huge. Biggest in europe I belive. Tradesmen over here use vans for 2 reasons, you can stick more stuff in the van, and because they drive about all the time, they choose vans with economical engines. They have 1.9 diesel engines in the van to haul about tons of equipment. I dont see our white van man driver needing a V8 to tow a a couple tons of tools.

And when you buy furniture usually you get it delivered to your house and placed where you want it. Even then your houses are made mainly out of wood. Wood is light, compared to some of the materials we use.

 

[Swift]

...nobody's arguing that you're going to use your SUV to move all of your belongings once every 10 years. Give me a break.

There's always helping friends move or having them leach your SUV

 

[Famine]

Then you havent seen the world. Just come to Surrey, BC and you will see that many tradesmen use pick-ups.

No, I'm not saying that you guys are lazy, but thats not the way you guys do things at some places. That way, you dont need SUVs. But here, we have a lot of people who do things themselves, and to transport a furniture, you will need a pick-up truck, for sure. Don't tell me that you're going to carry your new closet in a E500 Estate AWD!

This all went into this.

 

[Danoff]

There's always helping friends move or having them leach your SUV

Oh sure. In college I moved every year and every year I used my SUV to move myself and help when friends needed to move (seemed like every weekend). There are more cases than that too. Like when I needed to load up with a dozen bags of concrete, or move 5 mattresses for the Boy Scouts that I stacked to the ceiling, or when I shoved 9 people in the car to cart them around on a tour.

There are lots of cases that spring up suddenly where you'd wish you had more room than you do.

I dont see our white van man driver needing a V8 to tow a a couple tons of tools.

V8's are rarely about need, they're about luxury.

I can say that if that was true, then why do our tradesmen not use SUV's either and provide a reason why that is the case.

Yea, the tradesmen where I lived couldn't get to my house either because they couldn't manage the dirt road. It was a pain and I'm glad I don't live there anymore. Cab companies over here are starting to use SUVs so that they can take more people and luggage.

It's all about compromise between needs, wants, and availability. People have to take a lot into account when they buy a vehicle. You don't know them, you don't know their situation or what they'll use it for - so don't be so quick to judge.

It reminds me of a story I heard about a lady who picked up her handicapped mother on a regular basis in her vehicle. She'd routinely park in a handicapped spot, get out of the car and have people yell at her that she shouldn't be using the parking spot and that she's abusing the system etc. etc. Then she'd come out with her mother in the wheelchair and they'd eat their words (if they were still around).

Things aren't always as they appear. I'm sure when I drove my SUV most of the people that saw me figured I didn't use it. If you see someone driving an excursion, don't be so quick to blame all of pollution on them. They may live so close to work that you and your hybrid use more gas than they do.

I'd still like to see some sort of survey on the subject.

 

[Joey D]

No, that's actually an insult saying were all lazy,

So Europeans call Americans fat and lazy all the time, don't you think we get offended by it?

And when you buy furniture usually you get it delivered to your house and placed where you want it. Even then your houses are made mainly out of wood. Wood is light, compared to some of the materials we use.

The only thing I've ever had delivered to my house was out old piano and that's because it was free to have it delivered. But everything else we've ever bought has been picked up in a truck or SUV.

And I'm going to guess you've never picked up anything in your house, WOOD IS NOT LIGHT. My bed alone weighs in at a lot, my shelves weight quite a bit too. There is no way when we moved they would have fit or been good for any car.

But with the van comment, my dad owns a 98 Cargo G Van and it's decent, but you can fit as much in it as you could a pickup because it's still enclosed and there is still a roof to worry about. But it'll put things with little problems and it will haul a lot of weight barring it fits.

But really try to put 10 ft. sheet of drywall or big preeboard sheets in a car and see what happens. You'll be layin frame in no time.

And no in the UK I can't even see you guys doing the same kinda of home improvement things we did here in the USA, for starters you live on a lot less land. I live on 3/4 of an acre in a neighborhood...we have some breathin room. So doing stuff like that isn't a problem. But once again, it's a culture thing.

 

[Poverty]

Europeans arent fat and lazy. Americans and brits are fat and lazy. Well not quiet but were catching up with you guys.

And I'm going to guess you've never picked up anything in your house, WOOD IS NOT LIGHT. My bed alone weighs in at a lot, my shelves weight quite a bit too. There is no way when we moved they would have fit or been good for any car.

Ive done my fair share of labouring work (the simple physical work on a construction site for you americans) and me and another guy replaced the entire roof including the beams of garage in one days work. Most of it consisted of wood. I think I have fair knowledge to say as building materials go there are alot heavier things than wood.

Also we have what we call Ikea over here. You buy your furntiure and you can either stick it in your car or pay to get it delivered. Most people just stick it in their care. People manage to get whole dinning room into the back of their car and a couple cabinets. All thats needed is to fold down the rear seats.

And no in the UK I can't even see you guys doing the same kinda of home improvement things we did here in the USA, for starters you live on a lot less land. I live on 3/4 of an acre in a neighborhood...we have some breathin room. So doing stuff like that isn't a problem. But once again, it's a culture thing.

LOL this comment is funny. Firstly your houses are made out of wood. Secondly if you live in inner city london your house will be small and you will have a small plot of land. However we have plenty of space outside of London and if you dont live in a major city you could buy acres of land a nd a great big house for the same price of a 2 bedroom flat in London.

Also the Germans tend to have massive houses. Hardly any of them drive SUV's. And theyre a big DIY nation too. I very hard working nation were the lazy get seriously frowned upon and those without jobs feel embarressed. Germans belive in working hard and efficiently with evidence of that coming from the second world war. Tiny army yet a formidable force. So if SUV's or pickups are the best way forward why dont the super efficient germans use them? Or all the scandinavian countries were they have masses of snow most of the year round?

I also dont see how you need "breathing room" to do a bit of DIY.

If anything the DIY jobs that you guys do arent all that big as otheriwse you would need a hell of alot more than just SUV to get all the materials back to the house. Unless DIY for you means building a shed.

 

[Dave A]

So Europeans call Americans fat and lazy all the time, don't you think we get offended by it?

No onein the debate has even attempted to insult anyone, so why start now. But to clarify, I don't hear loads of Brit's saying that about American's, I have heared it and I have heared a lot of similar things coming from the US, any times you hear that is meerly a joke, a sterotypical poke, something known outside of the US as humour, something we very often use ourselves as the basis for. I assume the same when I hear Americans making snide remarks about us, This is all depending on context ofcourse.

The only thing I've ever had delivered to my house was out old piano and that's because it was free to have it delivered. But everything else we've ever bought has been picked up in a truck or SUV.

Most of the bigger items we buy here get free deliveries as part of the deal, but besides that it's not every day I go out and buy a new double bed, fully built wardrobe and dining table. I could happily live with a lower expense of a small car and pay for the delivery, that'd be a far more economical choice, than to buy an SUV.

And I'm going to guess you've never picked up anything in your house, WOOD IS NOT LIGHT. My bed alone weighs in at a lot, my shelves weight quite a bit too. There is no way when we moved they would have fit or been good for any car.

Certain types of wood are very light, other typers are very heavy, typically a denser wood is more expensive but lasts longer. I've got a Mahogany table downstairs, it's very old, very heavy, very expensive. On the other hand I've got an old wardrobe that actjually in the garage now, I turned it into a unit to store tools, that's expensive but not very expensive and I could pick it up on my own if it wasn't for the size of it, I life heavier weights put it that way. Wood isn't the heaviest material you will come across in DIY.

But with the van comment, my dad owns a 98 Cargo G Van and it's decent, but you can fit as much in it as you could a pickup because it's still enclosed and there is still a roof to worry about. But it'll put things with little problems and it will haul a lot of weight barring it fits.

I've never had any problems moving houses with people in a van, you can fit a double bed in a Transit no problem, I don't think space is much of an issue when you have that much of it anyway. You r right, in theory a truck could hold bigger items, but it won't keep them as dry, which is a big concern over here with our weather.

But really try to put 10 ft. sheet of drywall or big preeboard sheets in a car and see what happens. You'll be layin frame in no time.

No, but I'll put them in a van.

And no in the UK I can't even see you guys doing the same kinda of home improvement things we did here in the USA, for starters you live on a lot less land. I live on 3/4 of an acre in a neighborhood...we have some breathin room. So doing stuff like that isn't a problem. But once again, it's a culture thing.

Somehow I don't think every home in America has 200 sq/ft plots of land next to them, you do have cities too you know. Try comparing how someone who lives in a city with someone who lives in a city and someone who lives in the country side likewise. But now were well off the initial point about SUV's.

 

[Joey D]

No onein the debate has even attempted to insult anyone, so why start now. But to clarify, I don't hear loads of Brit's saying that about American's, I have heared it and I have heared a lot of similar things coming from the US, any times you hear that is meerly a joke, a sterotypical poke, something known outside of the US as humour, something we very often use ourselves as the basis for. I assume the same when I hear Americans making snide remarks about us, This is all depending on context ofcourse.

I hear it all the time, people sterotpye America quite heavily. I don't apperciate it so I try not to do it to others. I was just pointing it out, that is all.

Most of the bigger items we buy here get free deliveries as part of the deal, but besides that it's not every day I go out and buy a new double bed, fully built wardrobe and dining table. I could happily live with a lower expense of a small car and pay for the delivery, that'd be a far more economical choice, than to buy an SUV.

Well maybe I grew up differently but as I've said before I'm more upper middle class, lower upper class then anything (so we have money) and my mom is constantly buying new things that require a big vehicle to go and get it...like can't even fit in the Blazer. I remember last summer she bought 1200 pounds of bricks that made my dad's van cringe. But I was brought up in a home where things were constantly being bought.

Certain types of wood are very light, other typers are very heavy, typically a denser wood is more expensive but lasts longer. I've got a Mahogany table downstairs, it's very old, very heavy, very expensive. On the other hand I've got an old wardrobe that actjually in the garage now, I turned it into a unit to store tools, that's expensive but not very expensive and I could pick it up on my own if it wasn't for the size of it, I life heavier weights put it that way. Wood isn't the heaviest material you will come across in DIY.

Everything we own that has wood as the main material is heavy. But most of the stuff we own in Oak, Mapel, and some Mahoganey.

I've never had any problems moving houses with people in a van, you can fit a double bed in a Transit no problem, I don't think space is much of an issue when you have that much of it anyway. You r right, in theory a truck could hold bigger items, but it won't keep them as dry, which is a big concern over here with our weather.

It won't keep them dry...well there is a point for the SUV need. It keeps things dry. But really there is no difference between a van and and SUV...a G Van is very much like a Tahoe. Same V8, same basic fram, same suspension, same dash, etc. Also you can get a G Van with 4WD...so you make an arguement for a van, but not for an SUV? I'm confused.

Somehow I don't think every home in America has 200 sq/ft plots of land next to them, you do have cities too you know. Try comparing how someone who lives in a city with someone who lives in a city and someone who lives in the country side likewise. But now were well off the initial point about SUV's.

Any home in the suburbs is going to have a decent yard, I've never lived in the city so I don't even know where to begin there. But there is a decent sized yard to most house, and in Michigan everyone works in there yard...it's like some sort of right of passage if you own a home. Every weekend from May to September I work in my yard.

Firstly your houses are made out of wood.

No my house is made out of brick and has inner walls with wooden frames and covered in drywall.

However we have plenty of space outside of London and if you dont live in a major city you could buy acres of land a nd a great big house for the same price of a 2 bedroom flat in London.

I've always been told housing in Europe is smaller and more expensive then it is in America. This is what I was going on.

 

[Dave A]

I hear it all the time, people sterotpye America quite heavily. I don't apperciate it so I try not to do it to others. I was just pointing it out, that is all.

Fair enough.

Well maybe I grew up differently but as I've said before I'm more upper middle class, lower upper class then anything (so we have money) and my mom is constantly buying new things that require a big vehicle to go and get it...like can't even fit in the Blazer. I remember last summer she bought 1200 pounds of bricks that made my dad's van cringe. But I was brought up in a home where things were constantly being bought.

Do you not sometimes think, not everyone is upper middle class though and might not have been brought up where things are getting bought all the time because their parents can afford it. Don't get me wrong, I don't hold it against you at all, but I'd struggle to think of 10 people I know who had so much coming in they would need to own a large vehicle not counting tradesmen and farmers is it that different in Michigan?

Everything we own that has wood as the main material is heavy. But most of the stuff we own in Oak, Mapel, and some Mahoganey.

I'm guessing most of the stuff you own is expensive as well, a lot of thoes wood's are hard to come across these day's, Mahoganey in particular is very hard to find, and increasingly expensive whenever you do.

It won't keep them dry...well there is a point for the SUV need. It keeps things dry. But really there is no difference between a van and and SUV...a G Van is very much like a Tahoe. Same V8, same basic fram, same suspension, same dash, etc. Also you can get a G Van with 4WD...so you make an arguement for a van, but not for an SUV? I'm confused.

Van's doesn't mean the G-Wagon, if theres such little difference between the G-Wagon and the Tahoe I'd say the G-Wagon is pointless as a practical van, simply because it's a SUV, trying to be a van, straight away the engine is not needed. I'm guessing though the G-Wagon can carry more than the Tahoe but seat less. But let's talk about other vans as well, because theres a lot of well packed vans around over here, we've got Transits that can carry crap loads, and can carry a full load without overbearing anytihng mechanical and they don't have a V8, because a V8 isn't needed to haul things, torque is, and you'll get the best results from a 4 or 6 cylinder diesel.

Any home in the suburbs is going to have a decent yard, I've never lived in the city so I don't even know where to begin there. But there is a decent sized yard to most house, and in Michigan everyone works in there yard...it's like some sort of right of passage if you own a home. Every weekend from May to September I work in my yard.

Well done, and good luck, I hope whatever you have planned for it, how you want it to turn out ends up just how you ant it.

I've always been told housing in Europe is smaller and more expensive then it is in America. This is what I was going on.

Until I've been to America I suppose I shouldn't agree or not. It could be true but I've never looked into it I guess.

 

[iceburns288]

The proof? Totally absent.

Actually you should pay a visit to my school. It's a private school. Not only do you have to see the amount of soccer moms in SUVs every day... you just HAVE to see the student parking lot here. It's insane. 60 percent or more of the vehicles are SUVs because they're 'in'. They're cool, they're hip, whatever you wanna say. People drive them because they think it makes them look good. THAT is a fact. Most non-commercial SUV owners buy them to look good or fit in.

 

[Poverty]

Blazing by any chance are you a only child?

 

[Omnis]

Nah, he has a brother named Dietrich.

 

[Danoff]

Actually you should pay a visit to my school. It's a private school. Not only do you have to see the amount of soccer moms in SUVs every day... you just HAVE to see the student parking lot here. It's insane. 60 percent or more of the vehicles are SUVs because they're 'in'. They're cool, they're hip, whatever you wanna say. People drive them because they think it makes them look good. THAT is a fact. Most non-commercial SUV owners buy them to look good or fit in.

I'm sorry that doesn't cut it for proof. That students drive them (I drove one when I was a student and used it constantly) or that parents drive them does not establish that they aren't used (not that it's really any of your business how they use their vehicle).

 

[Dave A]

Let's not go too far off topic here guy's, it's heading a bit away from SUV's and more into Mahoganey's and Pine's.

So back to SUV's and who need's them and why or whatever your next port of call is.

 

[Poverty]

Arnold shwarzenegger loves SUV's. It wins him votes. What does that tell you about needs and wants.

Next prius is set to reach 100mpg.

 

[Swift]

Next prius is set to reach 100mpg.

If that's ANYWHERE near true. Then there's going to be even more demand for the prius. But still, the way they calculate MPG is so old and out of touch with new cars today it's not even funny.

 

[Famine]

Arnold shwarzenegger loves SUV's. It wins him votes. What does that tell you about needs and wants.

Absolutely nothing.

Next prius is set to reach 100mpg.

Current Aigo already does.

 

[Dave A]

The problem with the current Prius is that the extra ammount you pay for the car over a similar but less economical rival (even though the Prius isn't as economical as they would have you think) would take the average man something like 12 years of driving to make that extra cost become a benefit. I remember reading/hearing that in a magazine or on TopGear. Especially considering, as Famine pointed out, you can actually get more economical cars for less.

 

[Poverty]

If that's ANYWHERE near true. Then there's going to be even more demand for the prius. But still, the way they calculate MPG is so old and out of touch with new cars today it's not even funny.

In the sense that its worse or better than they suggest?

When im on owner forums they always say that they get alot better mpg than the manufacturer lists it as.

 

[Swift]

The problem with the current Prius is that the extra ammount you pay for the car over a similar but less economical rival (even though the Prius isn't as economical as they would have you think) would take the average man something like 12 years of driving to make that extra cost become a benefit. I remember reading/hearing that in a magazine or on TopGear. Especially considering, as Famine pointed out, you can actually get more economical cars for less.

Actually, I believe it's closer to 6 years, but yeah it takes a while.

In the sense that its worse or better than they suggest?

When im on owner forums they always say that they get alot better mpg than the manufacturer lists it as.

In the sense that cars usually do worse.

I assuming that you mean on "other" forums. Well, your MPG is directly related to how quickly you accelerate and how fast you drive. So if you drive really soft and slow, then I'm sure you can get that kind of mileage. The average American isn't that kind of driver though.

 

[Joey D]

Do you not sometimes think, not everyone is upper middle class though and might not have been brought up where things are getting bought all the time because their parents can afford it. Don't get me wrong, I don't hold it against you at all, but I'd struggle to think of 10 people I know who had so much coming in they would need to own a large vehicle not counting tradesmen and farmers is it that different in Michigan?

I can only speak for myself, making a statement based off something you've experienced holds more then something you've not. We need a vehicle like that so that's why I see a need for it.

I'm guessing most of the stuff you own is expensive as well, a lot of thoes wood's are hard to come across these day's, Mahoganey in particular is very hard to find, and increasingly expensive whenever you do.

I would wager so, although I don't ask about the price because it's my parents money and it's none of my business.

Van's doesn't mean the G-Wagon, if theres such little difference between the G-Wagon and the Tahoe I'd say the G-Wagon is pointless as a practical van, simply because it's a SUV, trying to be a van, straight away the engine is not needed. I'm guessing though the G-Wagon can carry more than the Tahoe but seat less. But let's talk about other vans as well, because theres a lot of well packed vans around over here, we've got Transits that can carry crap loads, and can carry a full load without overbearing anytihng mechanical and they don't have a V8, because a V8 isn't needed to haul things, torque is, and you'll get the best results from a 4 or 6 cylinder diesel.

Not a G Wagen, a G Van is different:

This is what it looks, in fact his looks just like that except it's white and he bought it from the Detroit Newspaper because he needed it for his side jobs. But more or less it's a truck.

Well done, and good luck, I hope whatever you have planned for it, how you want it to turn out ends up just how you ant it.

It's just one of the cultural difference. Michiganders love their yards.

Blazing by any chance are you a only child?

Yes and no, but there is a story that I'd rather not discuss.

 

[Poverty]

Most the furniture in my house is mahagony or however you spell it. Its not really a heavy wood. Dont know about price for it either. My mum designed it and some company in Jamaica built it for us. Rented a truck to get it from the port to my house. No SUV would have been able to transport them. I imagine one would be burning if they spent money just to transport and tow things but then in the end still have to get a proper truck.

 

[Joey D]

Well my dad, with working for a newspaper, he also is a general contractor...which is why he owns a van (to carry the tools and stuff). But he wishes he had a pickup because not only would it be easier to haul things, it would be more practical. But he got the van for next to nothing.

With the amount of stuff we buy its just nice to have some that will haul it. And if you are buying stuff a normal SUV can't transport, what the hell are you buying? A Sububan can take about 3000 pounds inside the truck it's self. What in God's name are you buying?

We have mahagony tabels and stuff and it was able to be transported with our van with some creative packing.

 

[Dave A]

I feel like Danny Glover when he said "I'm getting too old for this ****" . If you need one you need one, if you don't you don't, who cares anymore. That's code for, I'm off to bed so not me .

 

[Joey D]

Honestly I have nothing to do now that college is coming to an end and my summer job doesn't start till May. So debating on the internet is a good social interaction for the time being .

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

If that's ANYWHERE near true. Then there's going to be even more demand for the prius. But still, the way they calculate MPG is so old and out of touch with new cars today it's not even funny.

I read that now they have developed a new way, which includes tests where cars go I believe 80mph and with the A/C on.

 

[iceburns288]

I'm sorry that doesn't cut it for proof. That students drive them (I drove one when I was a student and used it constantly) or that parents drive them does not establish that they aren't used (not that it's really any of your business how they use their vehicle).

Now I'm sorry but that's just annoying. I know these people, and I know whether they use their trucks or not. And by the way, I'm not saying not a single one is being used, I'm just saying the majority are.

 

[McLaren]

Ice, I do agree. During my high school days, lots of kids found it cool to drive SUVs and trucks. While there were more trucks than SUVs, the SUVs got their share of hauling around friends.

 

[Jay]

Back in my High school days our student car park was full of males cars that were the fastest they could afford and females cars which were newer and more fuel efficient. Hardly any young people here get 'SUVs' they are not that popular at all over here. Most people that do get 'SUVs' here get Toyota Landcruisers or Nissan Patrols to tow boats and in the city you see Touregs, Cheyenne's, X5, X3, RX330's etc that tow nothing.

 

[GT4_Rule]

This all went into this.

Whats that supposed to mean I dont get it.

The problem with the current Prius is that the extra ammount you pay for the car over a similar but less economical rival (even though the Prius isn't as economical as they would have you think) would take the average man something like 12 years of driving to make that extra cost become a benefit. I remember reading/hearing that in a magazine or on TopGear. Especially considering, as Famine pointed out, you can actually get more economical cars for less.

Actually, one of my parent's friend, who drives a bus, calculated that with 25,000km a year (average Canadian's driving distance in a year) and gas at $1.00/L, it would take around 20 years to pay off the extra cost the hybrid accumulates when buying it new, and its extra-costly maintenance fee (think battery).