T500 RS - 1.09 Update (Discussion)

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Kaelsberg

Kaelsberg

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B-Jorgensen
For a long time i think the FFB of the T500 RS has been...Uhm.. Not as powerfull as it should/could be (atleast on Comfort or Sport tires) nor with its spinning speed at oversteering or while transitioning in drift.

The FFB been re-altered in "Ninja" updates during this ~half year GT6 been around.
Personally i prefered the "original" forces than what came during stealth updates.
So I got quite exided when i saw this in Undocumented Changes for 1.09 - "T500RS Sync fixed".

First time on track: I must say that they finally given the Wheel some of the power it deserves, as i imitiatly feelt the need to turn FFB Down EVEN on CH tires.

Sadly (as im a bit of a driftguy), this update has some serious oversteer/countersteer fails! Sure there´s alot of power from the T500, but its not possible to be smoth in a oversteer - the Wheel simply snap-back to center or stops its counter-steer before Lock and then giving a snap-back. Don´t know how to describe it, but its definetly uncomfteble, and smooth (counter)steering is not there at all. I went from FFB 8 - FFB 3 so it´s certanly not the force numbers that creates this oversteer issue.

I´m really glad they buffed up the forces on the T500! Unfortunely - The issues above makes the update a problem.

On a site-note the GT5 2.09 update included this:
"Improved the force feedback control of the Thrustmaster TS500RS Steering wheel controller to improve steering feel. This improvement will allow more precise countersteer on dirt and while drifting."

[2. day Morning EDIT]
Ok, maybe i made a minor mistake. It "might" be possible I *forgot* to pull the power-cord on the T500rs and have been switching between PC and PS3. The last couple of days. Soo DO NOT change between PS3/PC without turning off the power supply completely - just switching/pull USB connection will only mess up your wheel behavior. Crossing fingers this fixes some of the wierd feel i´m expirencing. Will test tomorrow.



Keep on sharing your opinion(s) regarding this update for T500rs.
 
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I agree with your statement oversteer/countersteer now feels like it'll snap your wrist off! Every other part of the FF feels great though.
 
I´m soo happy they (finally) unleashed some of the power with-in :bowdown: T500!

But these overstering issues 👎 Lets hope for a quick-fix from PD :gtpflag:
 
I personally like it more this way.

However I do not know enough to say if this new way is more realistic or not, or if it has bugs or not.

I also think some people confuse "bugs" with "don't like it", leaving out the correspondence with reality criteria.
(Not pointing the finger to anyone, it's my general feeling upon reading the other thread).
 
I'm not saying i like the org. Ffb over this, but the oversteering fail is really buggy and glitchy. So i'm very releaved that we in GT get those T500 forces, but really dont get why PD are realeasing (another) update thats not thought thru - especially when they had to fix a similar related issue late in GT5 (witch was no way near as bad as this)

That said i cannot wait for this to be adressed, so GT6 can be enjoyed as it should, with greater forces than ever before!
 
It's a nice improvement, but too much(dynamic) feel for me.
I ran a Viper Oreca at Lemans last week.
I tuned the car to eliminate any jerky(soft springs/firm shocks)movements on the Mul straight. It ran great(for me).
Now it feels like I'm slamming the floor board against the track. I used to get the same feedback with the DFGT wheel.
Turning, I don't need to adjust the camber angles. Every car I have will turn without any effort.

Hopefully the improvement can be throttled back(hot fix) a little or an option to adjust for player preferences.
 
I only ran one online race tonight after the update, and I now have about 3/4 inch dead spot on the wheel. Prior to the update it was 1/8 max.

I had it set FFB-3, tried it at 10, 7, and 5, no difference on the dead spot.
 
It feels quite a lot like Assetto Corsa now, the wheel snaps and pulls when you catch a slide in exactly the same way. But the wheel also feels dead sometimes. I will give it time. I might come to love this new FFB setting.
 
The centering spring changes and the going-straight oscillation makes it feel like a more powerful equivalent of the DFGT, indeed. It's like they regressed the interestingly different T500RS FFB to be more similar to their Logitech wheel support but didn't tune it for the fact that the T500RS is so much more powerful with snapback.

On the other hand, the wheel getting light and moving faster to follow the direction of momentum of the car is handy for racing and correcting minor oversteer: I'm pretty sure I could be faster like this than the previous FFB, although it definitely feels strange.

@nasanu the SnapBack is like AC before the 1.15 patch, however centering forces feel very different to me. Are you using any centering spring set in your PC drivers?


One question: I had a go at Spa with the Nissan GT3 (single player time trial) and the FFB was doing something very weird reacting to forces at the bottom of Eau Rouge. Can anyone else confirm similar behavior?
 
I don't like the new FFB for some reasons already mentioned. In addition, it's way too heavy. I had it on 1/10 before the update which was already too strong. :/

Also, before the update the fan would come on after around 45 minutes. Last night it came on after 10.
 
skazz
@nasanu the SnapBack is like AC before the 1.15 patch, however centering forces feel very different to me. Are you using any centering spring set in your PC drivers?
Click to expand...

I have the center spring set to zero and in game I am using the preset t500 profile.
 
I noticed the improved forces right away, and so far I like them. At the moment it is a bit more difficult to drive, because the wheel finally countersteers a bit by itself (much better self-centering) - and the effects when driving on the rumblestrips is vastly improved.

I do need to do some more driving when I get the time soon though, as I agree that countersteering/drifting was more tricky in the first half hour of player, but I do think that it is something I will just have to get used to.

The point is that I'm just happy that they seem to have unlocked some of the forced and liveliness in the steering, that the T500 had all along! 👍

EDIT

Aderrrm
I don't like the new FFB for some reasons already mentioned. In addition, it's way too heavy. I had it on 1/10 before the update which was already too strong. :/
Click to expand...

For me the actual force required to turn the wheel seems lighter, but the force applied by the wheel itself (shaking, self-centering etc.) however, seems a lot more powerful and life-like.
 
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Driving the BMW VGT at the 'ring last night, I noticed when you get up on the curbs, the wheel just goes totally light, no feel or feedback at all... didn't have time to investigate further.
 
I can't don't drift, so I can't comment on that, but the first feel using the T500 RS after the update was interesting. You can feel the limit of the grip better as the drop off when the tire starting to give up is more pronounced. There is a weird kick back sometimes on certain track that I haven't felt before though, sorta makes me need to smooth out my input more. Driving the TS030 down Mulsanne was positively violent, sorta reminds me of when GT4 was on my Driving Force Pro. But actual handling of the car in corner isn't that bad, in fact Porsche curves you can really balance the car on the limit better. Though TBH I haven't played that track in a long time to see what the difference was.
 
The way the wheel remains easy to turn (once you start turning) and how light it gets means it's actually tricky to lock down a good setting. I started on 2 from before the patch, had it up to 5 (which only made a small difference) and eventually back down to 3 which seemed good for road cars and slower race cars.

Out of curiosity: do we have a split between GT, GTE and F1 rim users finding different results?

(I've only tried the GT rim since the patch and still haven't decided whether I prefer before or after and what parts of the feel are intended or bugs)
 
I've tried both GTE and GT wheel and they are similarly affected by the new physics. But I tend to drive different kind of cars between the 2 wheels.
 
I just took the T500 for s
skazz
The way the wheel remains easy to turn (once you start turning) and how light it gets means it's actually tricky to lock down a good setting. I started on 2 from before the patch, had it up to 5 (which only made a small difference) and eventually back down to 3 which seemed good for road cars and slower race cars.

Out of curiosity: do we have a split between GT, GTE and F1 rim users finding different results?

(I've only tried the GT rim since the patch and still haven't decided whether I prefer before or after and what parts of the feel are intended or bugs)
Click to expand...

Ran into the same with all three rims here.
There are things I am both happy and unhappy about...
...will post in greater detail after I spend a more time on T500.
 
Soo, i decided to try it out some more today and maybe shoot some vids about whats going on. I dont know what have happend, but its not as glitchy as yesterday! It still seems to have some self-centering issues and maybe a touch of "dead zone". Something really has changed tho, as its definetly more drift and counter steer friendly - its not perfect atm, but its actually possible to get a feel for drifting with the new found power! Also the wheel actually wants to pull out to full Lock like a G6!(ok, G25/G27). I still mess quite abit up due a wierd feel and response, but man this is (going to be) a game changer.

As i´ve said its still not perfect nor working as it should, altho something seriously changed for the better!


[Edit] Gloves are recomended for drift - even on FFB Strenght 5 now!

[Morning EDIT]
Ok, maybe i made a minor mistake. It "might" be possible I *forgot* to pull the power-cord on the T500rs and have been switching between PC and PS3. The last couple of days. Soo DO NOT change between PS3/PC without turning off the power supply completely - just switching/pull USB connection will only mess up your wheel behavior. Crossing fingers this fixes some of the wierd feel i´m expirencing. Will test tomorrow.
 
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MRTeam
It's a nice improvement, but too much(dynamic) feel for me.
I ran a Viper Oreca at Lemans last week.
I tuned the car to eliminate any jerky(soft springs/firm shocks)movements on the Mul straight. It ran great(for me).
Now it feels like I'm slamming the floor board against the track. I used to get the same feedback with the DFGT wheel.
Turning, I don't need to adjust the camber angles. Every car I have will turn without any effort.

Hopefully the improvement can be throttled back(hot fix) a little or an option to adjust for player preferences.
Click to expand...


Ok, I took my old Dodge back to Lemans. Stiffen the springs considerably and the jerking was almost unnoticeable.
So I'm happy with the new feel.
 
Besides the adjusted FFB settings i came across some very very weird and annoying bug(?)...

I started a TT in the new seasonal LeMans event in the TS030 Hybrid. Going onto the first straight i was the fastest off all my psn-friends. All ghost-lines were behind me, 2-3 seconds after going down the first straight, my topspeed did NOT go over 275km/h and my psn-friends ghost-lines zoofed past me as if they were using nitrous... At the end of the first straight i couldnt even see my psn-friends' ghost-lines at all... At the end of the lap i managed a 3:52.8xx which is horrible to my personal abilities. Something was not right at all.

After messaging with a mate of mine about this issue, he suggested i tried setting a laptime using a DS3-controller. I did not unplug the USB-cord of my wheel in my PS3 but i did unplug the power-cord and went for an attempt on a DS3-controller. Having not more than 1-2hours of DS3-experience in both GT5 and GT6 combined i failed miserably at my hotlap using the DS3-controller. I then shut down my DS3-controller and plugged in the power-cord of my T500RS again to give the TT another go using my wheel.

Guess what... I still can't believe it myself and I'm baffled as to what might have caused this:

Going onto the 1st straight i was again ahead of all my psn-friends and this time my car went over 310km/h with ease... In my first attempt i took 10seconds off my previous time in my 1st lap. I am still baffled by this because I can't explain what caused this at all. From a 3:52.8xx to a 3:42.6xx in 1 lap that's just rediculous.

Prior to powering off my wheel and using a DS3-controller, i checked all connections (pedals, power supply) on my wheel and i even unplugged/powered it off and tried a 2nd lap, but still i wasn't able to reach a higher speed than 275km/h untill i swapped from T500RS to a DS3 and then back to my T500RS. (For your info, i only use my T500RS on PS3, i do not use it on PC).

There is something really buggy going on in GT6 with the T500RS since the introduction of the latest patch. I'm liking the "heavier" FFB when cruising with friends or trying to set a TT-laptime BUT it has ruined drifting for me bigtime. The way the wheel responds when in the middle of a drift, is just a pain in the ass.

Edit: Standaard wheel and GTE-addon both feel thesame with the new patch to me.

Zero7159
It feels fine to me. I have my T500 on 10. It feels strong, but not as strong as what I get on PC.
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You must've got pretty big arms then lol, i had FFB on 10 prior the update. FFB felt at least twice as heavy after i updated GT6. I'm using FFB 5 atm and it still feels heavier than FFB10 before the update.
 
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It's a totally fail update!! Did anyone try the TT with the Toyota TS030 Hybrid in Le Mans? When you go straight at high speed, the wheel goes completely crazy. It is:
UNREALISTIC
UNCOMFORTABLE
MAY DAMAGE THE WHEEL (I even have the ffb=1)
AND FURTHERMORE, NOT PLEASANT AT ALL TO DRIVE

PD, please FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY!!!

(When you are turning, it feels great though, even at high speed.)
 
I hoped that with T500RS it doesn't have that shaking nonsence like with my logitech G25 wheel. This update has failed in that regard. Why isn't dead zone and other things customisable in wheel settings menu?
 
Oyashiro-sama
It's a totally fail update!! Did anyone try the TT with the Toyota TS030 Hybrid in Le Mans? When you go straight at high speed, the wheel goes completely crazy. It is:
UNREALISTIC
UNCOMFORTABLE
MAY DAMAGE THE WHEEL (I even have the ffb=1)
AND FURTHERMORE, NOT PLEASANT AT ALL TO DRIVE

PD, please FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY!!!
(When you are turning, it feels great though, even at high speed.)
Click to expand...
Letting aside the subjective part, how do you know it is:

1.Unrealistic
2.May Damage the wheel
3.There is something to be fixed

I understand that one thing cannot please everyone, some people will not like it and others will. But to leap from something subjective like an opinion, to something objective like you did, takes at least a justification.
 
Divinus
Letting aside the subjective part, how do you know it is:

1.Unrealistic
2.May Damage the wheel
3.There is something to be fixed

I understand that one thing cannot please everyone, some people will not like it and others will. But to leap from something subjective like an opinion, to something objective like you did, takes at least a justification.
Click to expand...
1. It's unrealistic because I drive and my car's wheel doesn't shake like that at 200kmh. At 200kmh my T500 is already going crazy (trying to push left and right).
2. May Damage the wheel because the motor is applying stronger forces. It won't make it last longer, that's for sure.
3. Needs to be fixed because of the previous reasons.
 
Personally I think the update brought by 1.09 has completely ruined the wheel.

There doesn't appear to be any force feedback any more on the Red Bull Standard championship - apart from a few random bangs and crashes - I don't like that championship, but just do it to get credits to buy cars - unfortunately for me the update added 5-10 seconds to my lap times - which meens its now unwinnable.

There seems to be a reduction in steering lag - noticeable at Trial Mountain - which is good.

I used to use the FFB at 5, but have now started testing it at 10. I don't have any feel for the cars any more and the steering is ridiculously light.

There is random banging and crashing when going straight on some tracks like I used to get with my old DFGT on GT5.

Oh PD what have you done? Please change it back - why keep changing stuff that isn't broken or worse still break stuff that wasn't broken.

Like a previous poster said, the best feel with the T500 was when GT6 was first released - it got slightly worse and this update has now ruined the feel completely.
 
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RedBaron
I hoped that with T500RS it doesn't have that shaking nonsence like with my logitech G25 wheel. This update has failed in that regard. Why isn't dead zone and other things customisable in wheel settings menu?
Click to expand...

It has thesame shaking nonsence issue. Did PD even test this update on all of the useable wheels in this game?
I seriously doubt they tested this patch with any wheel... Someone screwed up bigtime at PD.
Oyashiro-sama
It's a totally fail update!! Did anyone try the TT with the Toyota TS030 Hybrid in Le Mans? When you go straight at high speed, the wheel goes completely crazy. It is:
UNREALISTIC
UNCOMFORTABLE
MAY DAMAGE THE WHEEL (I even have the ffb=1)
AND FURTHERMORE, NOT PLEASANT AT ALL TO DRIVE

PD, please FIX THIS IMMEDIATELY!!!
(When you are turning, it feels great though, even at high speed.)
Click to expand...

Yes, read the post above your own post. My wheel did thesame as yours, but it added another "bug" as well. My TS030 didn't even get to 280km/h on the straight and all my psn-friends overtook me on the first straight as if they had a nitrous-button on their LMP1 car. After i unplugged the power-cord of my wheel, tried with a controller, and then reconnected my T500RS, i was finally able to utilise the full power of that LMP1 car and i was 10seconds faster over 1 lap on my 1st attempt.

PD has dropped the ball bigtime. GT6 should have never been released on PS3 and GT5 should still be driveable online with friends. PD should have put another 6months into GT6's development and turn it into a PS4 game because there is not one good race-game on PS4 out yet and the console is already 7months old. Lose-Lose situation for Sony & PD at this very moment.
 
Oyashiro-sama
1. It's unrealistic because I drive and my car's wheel doesn't shake like that at 200kmh. At 200kmh my T500 is already going crazy (trying to push left and right).
2. May Damage the wheel because the motor is applying stronger forces. It won't make it last longer, that's for sure.
3. Needs to be fixed because of the previous reasons.
Click to expand...

1. I will bet that your car is not the TS030 and that you didn't drove it down the mulsanne. The comparison you made must be analysed carefully then. And let's not forget correlation is not causation. The effect you describe does not happen in all tracks, or at least in every situation where you are driving in a straight line. I didn't had the time to do the appropriate testing, but some members here will. Although it appears to me that the car in question has a stiff suspension and is light and the track is bumpy so it is expected some kind of feedback (more than in your normal car). Now I don't think you have enough data (at least within your justification) to conclude it is unrealistic. Maybe the spring rate is to strong and there is nothing to do with the wheel. There are other hypothesis that will render your conclusion wrong. What I see in your post is that you don't like it, and regarding that there is nothing to discuss. You are entitled to your opinion. But I cannot see a strong argument to claim that it is unrealistic. I am not stating that this effect is realistic in any way, I am just advocating to not jump to premeditate conclusions without adequate testing and reasoning. And writing with bigger letters won't give more strength to your argument.

2. With that chain of reasoning the best to you is if you don't use the wheel at all. Because every use applies stronger forces than with the wheel stopped and therefore "won't make it last longer". If it can damage the wheel you must explain why this level of forces may do it. There are reports PC gamers that state the wheel has more ff in the PC because it unleashed its full potential. So you must have an idea of the point where a marginal force applied has passed the appropriate level that the material can support.

3. For the reasons above.
 

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