The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

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Mercedes going the way of Jaguar and (ironically) BAR? I got especially concerned when they hired Aldo Costa and Bob Bell. I shook my head when they got rid of Norbert Haug and brought in Niki Lauda.
Now I'm face-palming at the prospect of them getting rid of Ross Brawn and replacing him with Paddy Lowe.

One could suggest that Mercedes are building a super-team similar to Benetton '92.
But I think this is going to go the way of Jaguar - change the entire management and staff and still end up under-performing massively. Except this time Ross and the original technical team did actually give Mercedes a race win last year....

Or perhaps a better comparison would be Ferrari in the late 80s/early 90s? Or we could just say this is an example of manufacturers generally in motorsports - no patience and plenty of cash to hire new people.

Either way this team seems ridiculously top-heavy. So much for the team that claimed to be "most efficient" with a small budget.
Hamilton could well have screwed his career Jacques Villenueve style.
 
I'm kind of worried as well. Mercedes don't seem to know what they're doing at the moment. Nick Fry's probably also going to leave. I have no idea who's making these decisions but it seems they're just changing things up for the sake of change.

I also don't get exactly what Toto Wolff is supposed to be. Yes, officially he's going to be the Mercedes Motorsport boss overall, but people are talking him up like he's going to replace Brawn, that's just non sense from the way I see things now.

Mercedes are throwing money everywhere and it's backwards. First you've gotta throw more money at the car, then next year you can try shuffling up your staff to make room for new blood (which also isn't new in this case).

Unless they really intend 2013 to be a throw away season.

But hey, if Brawn does get let go McLaren it would be awesome if they replaced Whitmarsh with him, I think he's a lot of the reason Lewis lost out at McLaren so much after Ron left, things just were never the same.

But if that did happen (unlikely) what a kick in the ass that would be for Lewis. But as he's said before, he doesn't care about winning with the same team anymore, or so goes the story. So it shouldn't bother him, and he should be ready for the challenge of having to pick up all over again starting with a brand new team.
 
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Blitz24
I really think its not Brawn but Mercedes who is dropping the ball here.
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What has Ross Brawn acheived in the last three years?

I think replacing Brawn now is a mistake in the sense that it is changing too much, too quickly. A better strategy would be to stagger the introduction of new personnel, and maybe consider replacing Brawn at the end of 2013. I think this is going to be Brawn's last chance: the team has had virtually no progress since 2010, and has often managed to make their talented drivers look silly. Brawn has spend the past eighteen months building up the engneering side of the team, but if they don't deliver, Mercedes probably won't have any choice but to replace him.
 
Exactly. That's the same reason I think he should've clearly stayed. It's like getting rid of the gardener after he's planted all the seeds only for the new gardener not to know what the hell he's watering.

He should have one more go. I don't think he's any sort of magic anymore at all, but he certainly does know how to manage. I was hoping he would inherit Haug's position, but now I realize how distant he was from Mercedes HQ and Lauda in the first place.
 
Wardez
That's the same reason I think he should've clearly stayed.
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But he hasn't been replaced. There is speculation that he will be removed from his position and Toto Wolff will become the new team principal with Paddy Lowe heading up the engineering sector of the team, but it has not happened. Wolff and Lowe both say the first they had heard of it was when they read it in the newspaper.
 
Ah someone else has the same problem as me:

A group of Canadian and American investors are pushing to try and secure HRT's entry slot in Formula 1, AUTOSPORT can reveal, but they may have to wait until 2014 before being allowed to join the grid.

Sources have revealed that negotiations to purchase the HRT company and secure an entry are at an advanced stage, and the plan for a team known as Scorpion Racing appears to have the blessing of F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone.

However, AUTOSPORT understands that the FIA believes the 12th entry slot for 2013 was closed off when it was informed at the end of last season that HRT had been liquidated.

Although the governing body is aware of the plans for Scorpion Racing, it does not appear to have any intention of making a special case to allow another team in for 2013 because the entry deadline closed last November.

Autosport bumfluff.

The investors behind Scorpion Racing are hoping to complete due diligence of the buy-out plans in the next few days.

That means the viability of their plans should become clearer by the end of the week.

Pedro de la Rosa, HRT, Austin 2012Scorpion is hoping to run its effort from a facility at Silverstone, using updated HRT F112 cars that will be powered by Cosworth engines and use a Williams gearbox.

AUTOSPORT has learned that discussions have taken place with Ecclestone about the idea, and he indicated to the outfit in a letter last weekend that if its takeover of the HRT assets was complete then it should get an entry to F1.

Ecclestone wrote to the Scorpion Racing investors saying: "Have you bought the HRT company? Because if you have, they [the FIA] would be accepting you."

It is not clear if there is any mechanism for Scorpion to secure a place on the grid if it can convince the FIA that it has the funding and technical capability to compete in 2013.
 
Cheers for that Rossell2! 👍 If I'm to be perfectly honest, I'm not in favour of any plans to take over the assets of what was HRT. That is unless the plans are to make a serious attempt to push the team up the grid, rather than just cruise around as rear gunners, for the sake of being there.

Oh and 100th post! Yaay! :D
 
In my mind I don't see the point other then premises and some technical stuff. If they are going to start in 2014 there's no point using any of the old HRT car stuff it'll be irrelevant.

Oh well, good luck they obviously wanna have a go.

Edit: Congrats ;)
 
Mr Fusion
Cheers for that Rossell2! 👍 If I'm to be perfectly honest, I'm not in favour of any plans to take over the assets of what was HRT. That is unless the plans are to make a serious attempt to push the team up the grid, rather than just cruise around as rear gunners, for the sake of being there.
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Do you really think the drivers, mechanics, designers and engineers at HRT were happy to come last every race?

Why is it people have this attitude on smaller or unsuccessful teams? Just because they are struggling doesn't mean they don't want to improve and don't put the effort in.

Not least because HRT is far from the most embarrassing team in the sport's history. They did turn up to every single race for each season they entered and did finish a fair amount of races. That alone is an achievement especially considering the cost of competing in this sport these days.

Andrea Moda barely managed to turn up to any races..or even put together more than 1 car properly. And they competed at a time when they needed a small fraction of the budget HRT has.

I'd support any entry as long as they conduct themselves properly. I don't want to see the remainder of HRT turned into a USF1 or "Stefan" joke but if this Scorpion group do things properly then good luck to them! The more cars on the grid, the merrier. Some of the rookies are struggling to find any seat these days so at least teams like HRT represent a place for rookies to start their career..even if it means bringing cash these days (but then, every step of the motorsport ladder requires bringing substantial sponsorship).
 
And they didn't try to set fire to themselves at pit stops.

Anyway I'm more of the opinion this is a move to buy certain gear.
 
Ardius
Do you really think the drivers, mechanics, designers and engineers at HRT were happy to come last every race?

Why is it people have this attitude on smaller or unsuccessful teams? Just because they are struggling doesn't mean they don't want to improve and don't put the effort in.

Not least because HRT is far from the most embarrassing team in the sport's history. They did turn up to every single race for each season they entered and did finish a fair amount of races. That alone is an achievement especially considering the cost of competing in this sport these days.

Andrea Moda barely managed to turn up to any races..or even put together more than 1 car properly. And they competed at a time when they needed a small fraction of the budget HRT has.

I'd support any entry as long as they conduct themselves properly. I don't want to see the remainder of HRT turned into a USF1 or "Stefan" joke but if this Scorpion group do things properly then good luck to them! The more cars on the grid, the merrier. Some of the rookies are struggling to find any seat these days so at least teams like HRT represent a place for rookies to start their career..even if it means bringing cash these days (but then, every step of the motorsport ladder requires bringing substantial sponsorship).
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Of course I don't believe the drivers, mechanics, designers and engineers at HRT were happy to come last every race. It's not them that I have issues with; in fact I feel sorry for those guys, suffering under three years of woeful management from those who owned the team. Therefore if the team is to be brought back from the dead, I want it to be brought back by owners who will not squander the efforts of the drivers, mechanics, designers and engineers. And I agree that there have been plenty worse teams in F1 previously.
 
Rossell2
It is not clear if there is any mechanism for Scorpion to secure a place on the grid if it can convince the FIA that it has the funding and technical capability to compete in 2013.
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They'd rock the grid like a hurricane, though.
 
I can't explain, but I have a good feeling about this. Hopefully, this effort will make it real. Another two cars on the grid would be dynamite. Hopefully, they don't stop at the top and make a real effort to improve and last.
 
I don't see this Scorpion group as any better than Thesan before it. Hopefully I'm proven wrong but this group doesn't seem to be bringing piles of cash. And piles of cash are required to get what is left of HRT anywhere.

The problem is that buying HRT only means:
-Buying two 3-year old cars with minimal upgrades.
-Buying contracts with Cosworth, Williams and the rest of the suppliers.
-Buying whats left of the small base in Spain (which lacks any assets - no windtunnel, no machinery, literally nothing there).

There are no real assets to be gained except the 2 cars and spares. So any new company is going to have to invest straight away in a new base and if they are serious about making progress, they are going to have invest in building up the chassis production.
HRT has been using suppliers and contractors to design and build their cars which is expensive (in the long term), slow and unreliable. This is why they have no assets to sell, because they own nothing.

To be honest, I think any new effort is better off contracting Dallara to make a new car instead...although Dallara charge ridiculous rates anyway.

It comes back round to the old "customer cars" idea.
 
SagarisGTB
I can't explain, but I have a good feeling about this. Hopefully, this effort will make it real.
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Well, judging by the Autosport article, they've approached Bernie Ecclestone and gotten his blessing (of sorts). I don't think any of the other teams that failed before they even began - like Phoenix and Stefan GP - ever did that much. The only hurdle seems to be convincing the FIA to let Scorpion join the grid, which Ecclestone apparently thinks is possible.

I suppose 2013 is the opportune moment to join the grid. The regulations have not changed wildly since 2012, so purchasing and competing with the HRT F112 is a viable option. The car might not be competitive in any sense of the word, but it's there - it can be picked up and raced straight away.
 
It's interesting because Razia was already in line for the seat Chilton took and he even did press a few weeks ago saying he was surprised that Chilton was announced in the seat and that he'd have to start looking elsewhere for a drive. Obviously the second seat became available and he's now taken that but you have to wonder if that means Glock was pushed because Razia was cheaper/brings in more sponsorship.
 
Razia told he doesn't have support from any Brazilian company, so i guess with support only from Europeans means he doesn't have that good budget as well... If Nasr was on the way for some seat, maybe its was a good reason because he's supported by BB and OGX (major companies here). Honestly, Razia isn't a pole sitter like Hamilton, but he's quite fast and a good finisher (like Button), so he can do a good job and look for some space next year when maybe there is no Cosworth engines.
 
Marussia said themselves that Glock was "too expensive" for them. I am trying to find the source, however they said something along the lines of
'we thought that we could run with 1 'pay' driver and 1 'payed-salary' driver, but it has just turned out to be too expensive'
 
LS2
Razia just signed with Marussia for 2013.

http://globoesporte.globo.com/motor...-e-fara-sua-estreia-na-formula-1-em-2013.html
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I, for one, don't believe it. The Brazilian media have a bad habit of trying to push their drivers by running stories that favour them. They've already tried to "confirm" Bruno Senna at Force India twice.

Didn't anyone else find it strange that Globo is running a story about a driver announcement, but they haven't asked Razia or anyone at Marussia to discuss it?
 
prisonermonkeys
I, for one, don't believe it. The Brazilian media have a bad habit of trying to push their drivers by running stories that favour them. They've already tried to "confirm" Bruno Senna at Force India twice.

Didn't anyone else find it strange that Globo is running a story about a driver announcement, but they haven't asked Razia or anyone at Marussia to discuss it?
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Nothing official.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/187619/1/reports_marussia_to_confirm_luiz_razia_on_friday.html
 
I'm still not going to believe it until it is. Like I said, the Brazilian press are notoriously unreliable.

Paul di Resta has also been confirmed as one of Force India's drivers, but there has been no announcement:

www.forceindiaf1.com/paul-di-resta
 
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prisonermonkeys
I, for one, don't believe it. The Brazilian media have a bad habit of trying to push their drivers by running stories that favour them. They've already tried to "confirm" Bruno Senna at Force India twice.

Didn't anyone else find it strange that Globo is running a story about a driver announcement, but they haven't asked Razia or anyone at Marussia to discuss it?
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My thoughts exactly! 👍
 
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