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- Croatia
I really like this topic and debate that have risen out of it. It does not belong here, but it also does not belong in General thread. However, I'll try to participate because this subject is very interesting.
I'm also above 30, I play racing games for 20 years and last 10 years I play with the wheel exclusively. I also have a small racing-community site where we gathered around 130 members interested in deeper-aspects of racing, with some really hard-core members (few of them were avid holders of top time-trial times in worldwide leaderboards in Prologue, vice-champions of national and regional leagues in rFactor, etc.).
I consider myself as a class 4 driver, I will never be class 5, nor class P (where class 1 are true beginners, class 5 are people that are faster for 1-2 seconds per lap than me, while class P are "aliens" that are fast as Holl01 and so on).
One of members on my site is of my age (33, 34) and he's definitely class P. Notice he's the guy with normal life, he has a small private company he runs, he has a family and he can spend his free time on racing same as I can. But, he's a natural talent for racing - his "skill" is much, much higher than mine.
When you give him the seat to drive a one-lap around Suzuka and watch him drive you see nothing spectacular. His lines are same, he takes the same paths on complex sections, same rhythm, same braking spots, same acceleration paths.
But then you take the seat, and you suddenly realize that before end of "S curve" section he's already more than 1,5 seconds ahead, while at the end he has more than 3 seconds lead and his ghost crosses the start/finish line with 3.5 seconds advantage. How is that possible? Because of his skill/talent.
He just "feels" the pedals and the wheel, he maintains perfect speed through corners no matter what, his wheels always have perfect grip and he gains around .100 to 0.300 per every corner/turn compared to us. When you watch his online race replay of our races - which he always wins, no matter what - his concentration, consistency and overall skill to cope with everything that happens on the track (duels, chases, slipstreaming, etc.) just adds to equation.
Other P class friend is much different. He spends hours in training, learning every bit of track and such in order to maintain his P-status. But in race, he makes mistakes because his skill/talent is just not that high, and despite his effort and training that "forced" knowledge does not allow him to actually compete with the first guy.
While some of the License tests and Special Events races are based on "sequence" that you have to master (One Lap Magic Challenges, Mission Races in GT4, etc.) it is not just pure "overtake sequence" you have to take into account.
New F500 race in Seasonal Events is my best example of above. I have read various description of it all over the internet and I realized how big is the difference in may aspects of approach to GT5/driving genre among different type of players (people). While I managed to win by no problems with just basic Air Filter and 5-Speed-Short-Gearbox, people are struggling to win even with the car fully-modified and tuned to insane level of details (some discussions are seriously considering altering the camber and toe which is almost unbelievable to me).
While some of them achieve the lap-time needed to win (approx. 1.20.xxx margin per lap), they obviously can't "catch" the "overtake sequence" in the same time and catch the Audi A2. Their lap-time is achieved on exits and acceleration instead of tackling the track and corners in approach and they lose valuable hundreds needed to accomplish "fusion" of lap-time and "overtake sequence".
That is where the skill takes place. It is not just "learning" and step-and-repeat process, it is matter of praxis and subconscious understanding of inputs needed in order to achieve your goal. Some can "understand" it better because they just know what needs to be done. Some can learn it through time and practice and make themselves better. While some will never learn because their brain is just not "made" to comprehend it.
It is the same with drawing. I can draw very good, but my sister is natural born artist. I can never draw as she can. But majority of people can't draw even close to me. Same as I just can't understand advanced mathematics, no matter how hard I try. My brain just can't comprehend it.
Skill is definitely important part of driving genre at this point of time. In the early days where there was no analogue and force-feedback inputs (Atari Test Drive for example) it was matter of "Super Mario Bros" praxis, but with development of physics engine/visuals/sound/effects/input devices, it became matter of skill. Individual comprehension of all above makes a difference amongst the actual skill-levels of players noticeable than ever before.
I'm also above 30, I play racing games for 20 years and last 10 years I play with the wheel exclusively. I also have a small racing-community site where we gathered around 130 members interested in deeper-aspects of racing, with some really hard-core members (few of them were avid holders of top time-trial times in worldwide leaderboards in Prologue, vice-champions of national and regional leagues in rFactor, etc.).
I consider myself as a class 4 driver, I will never be class 5, nor class P (where class 1 are true beginners, class 5 are people that are faster for 1-2 seconds per lap than me, while class P are "aliens" that are fast as Holl01 and so on).
One of members on my site is of my age (33, 34) and he's definitely class P. Notice he's the guy with normal life, he has a small private company he runs, he has a family and he can spend his free time on racing same as I can. But, he's a natural talent for racing - his "skill" is much, much higher than mine.
When you give him the seat to drive a one-lap around Suzuka and watch him drive you see nothing spectacular. His lines are same, he takes the same paths on complex sections, same rhythm, same braking spots, same acceleration paths.
But then you take the seat, and you suddenly realize that before end of "S curve" section he's already more than 1,5 seconds ahead, while at the end he has more than 3 seconds lead and his ghost crosses the start/finish line with 3.5 seconds advantage. How is that possible? Because of his skill/talent.
He just "feels" the pedals and the wheel, he maintains perfect speed through corners no matter what, his wheels always have perfect grip and he gains around .100 to 0.300 per every corner/turn compared to us. When you watch his online race replay of our races - which he always wins, no matter what - his concentration, consistency and overall skill to cope with everything that happens on the track (duels, chases, slipstreaming, etc.) just adds to equation.
Other P class friend is much different. He spends hours in training, learning every bit of track and such in order to maintain his P-status. But in race, he makes mistakes because his skill/talent is just not that high, and despite his effort and training that "forced" knowledge does not allow him to actually compete with the first guy.
While some of the License tests and Special Events races are based on "sequence" that you have to master (One Lap Magic Challenges, Mission Races in GT4, etc.) it is not just pure "overtake sequence" you have to take into account.
New F500 race in Seasonal Events is my best example of above. I have read various description of it all over the internet and I realized how big is the difference in may aspects of approach to GT5/driving genre among different type of players (people). While I managed to win by no problems with just basic Air Filter and 5-Speed-Short-Gearbox, people are struggling to win even with the car fully-modified and tuned to insane level of details (some discussions are seriously considering altering the camber and toe which is almost unbelievable to me).
While some of them achieve the lap-time needed to win (approx. 1.20.xxx margin per lap), they obviously can't "catch" the "overtake sequence" in the same time and catch the Audi A2. Their lap-time is achieved on exits and acceleration instead of tackling the track and corners in approach and they lose valuable hundreds needed to accomplish "fusion" of lap-time and "overtake sequence".
That is where the skill takes place. It is not just "learning" and step-and-repeat process, it is matter of praxis and subconscious understanding of inputs needed in order to achieve your goal. Some can "understand" it better because they just know what needs to be done. Some can learn it through time and practice and make themselves better. While some will never learn because their brain is just not "made" to comprehend it.
It is the same with drawing. I can draw very good, but my sister is natural born artist. I can never draw as she can. But majority of people can't draw even close to me. Same as I just can't understand advanced mathematics, no matter how hard I try. My brain just can't comprehend it.
Skill is definitely important part of driving genre at this point of time. In the early days where there was no analogue and force-feedback inputs (Atari Test Drive for example) it was matter of "Super Mario Bros" praxis, but with development of physics engine/visuals/sound/effects/input devices, it became matter of skill. Individual comprehension of all above makes a difference amongst the actual skill-levels of players noticeable than ever before.
