The Age Of The Supercar

  • Thread starter Thread starter 200MphFord
  • 19 comments
  • 1,175 views
2

200MphFord

Messages
460
Messages
Thisguy70
While the 60's had the Musclecar and we seem to be trying to recreate that era today, Are we now living in the age of the Supercar? From 1980 to now we've had radically designed cars from the likes of Ferrari, Mclaren, Porsche, and many more well deserved names. With a new 1000HP car popping up every few months are we not living in a new age? The 60's cars were praised for their innovative designs, with some more radical than the next. There was a new higher horse power car every few months to steal customers away from their competition. You had every manufacturer trying to come up with a reason why their car was better. AMX had the lightweight big block car and everyone followed soon after with ie. GT500's, Hemi Cuda's, SS Camaros. They were locked in a grudge match for bragging rights and quarter mile domination. You had the big three contending for sales like their cars were going out of style. We seem to be following that trend the 60's set with more innovation in technology and styling. Lamborghini made some of the most angular cars in the 70's and 80's. there are more comtemporary designs from the likes of the German manufacturers, while the Italians are still designing cars that scream look at me! Today it seems like the competition has moved from winning at the drag strip to who has the fastest car, both top speed and lap times on the 'Ring. Bugatti has ultimately claimed the title of fastest car with the SS but we still have Koenigsegg and Hennesey claiming their cars are faster but with no actual testing to prove it and im sure most of us would like to see the Bugatti dethroned. So i ask again, are we living in the Age Of The Supercar?
 
200MphFord
So i ask again, are we living in the Age Of The Supercar?
Click to expand...
No.

Late 80s, early 90s was the age of the Supercar. F40, 959, Countach/Diablo, XJ220, F1 etc will attest to that.
 
daan
No.

Late 80s, early 90s was the age of the Supercar. F40, 959, Countach/Diablo, XJ220, F1 etc will attest to that.
Click to expand...

That was an abrupt and closeminded response. I was looking for more of a discussion rather than one person shooting me down in a single response.
 
He's right though. 20 years ago, the time the world economy was so good that the startup manufacturers felt they didn't have to worry about the chance that they might not be able to actually sell any regardless of how much they cost (not the smartest decision, but fair enough that it worked initially).



In comparison, the only car built with that in mind today is the Veyron, which even now is an exception rather than the norm.
 
Today, off the top of my head, the only supercars are the Veyron, the Agera and the Huyaari new Pagani.

Yes, the 458, MP4-12C and others of that ilk are massively fast and impressive cars, but they're not, by definition, supercars. They're way too "affordable" and accessible to be supercars.
 
Toronado
He's right though. 20 years ago, the time the world economy was so good that the startup manufacturers felt they didn't have to worry about the chance that they might not be able to actually sell any regardless of how much they cost (not the smartest decision, but fair enough that it worked initially).

In comparison, the only car built with that in mind today is the Veyron, which even now is an exception rather than the norm.
Click to expand...

I agree the cars he mentioned, and a few others, were the true supercars. The purest of the breed, race cars for the road. Although if you look at todays cars they have nearly the same performance figures and are more easily obtainable and not being limited to say 25 models. You still have a variety to choose from with power and handling that will test the boundaries of grip and speed. Sure its not about pure speed or lap times but the visceral feel of the experience driving these cars.
 
daan
Today, off the top of my head, the only supercars are the Veyron, the Agera and the Huyaari new Pagani.

Yes, the 458, MP4-12C and others of that ilk are massively fast and impressive cars, but they're not, by definition, supercars. They're way too "affordable" and accessible to be supercars.
Click to expand...

I see your point about them being more accessable. Lets just throw a number out there. Lets say Ferrari builds 3500 458 Italias. Those are 3500 around the entire world. The odds of you seeing one on the road are less likely than seeing one in a dealer of course but its still exclusive. I know you might say its still too mainstream but exclusive nonetheless.
 
daan
Today, off the top of my head, the only supercars are the Veyron, the Agera and the Huyaari new Pagani.

Yes, the 458, MP4-12C and others of that ilk are massively fast and impressive cars, but they're not, by definition, supercars. They're way too "affordable" and accessible to be supercars.
Click to expand...

I group those first ones as hypercars and the latter group as supercars. I mean, most consider the ZR1 to be a supercar, no?
 
Aventador, Huayra, Tuatara, 599 GTO, Agera, Veyron, LF-A (slow in this company for sure, but that bespoke, immense V10 and the fetish-level attention to detail puts in for me)

In recent years:
Mclaren SLR
Enzo
Carrera GT
Zonda
Ford GT (this one is difficult to define)


Those are the supercars I can think of. There are others just as fast, but they don't seem to represent the 'essence' of supercar to me. Just really fast sports cars. Supercars have to be a bit compromised I think. They should also be indefinably 'special.' A 599 GTO is special in a way the 458 Italia isn't. I think a supercar, too, should be defined above all else by it's engine. It has to be the defining characteristic of the car. Cars like the Noble M600 could probably outdrag quite a few of the above, but it's not finely finished enough, there isn't enough attention to detail to qualify it as a supercar. It's just a tactical weapon.

edit: I want to say that the Veyron transcends the supercar. It's somehow in a different league, or perhaps not really playing the same sport. It's more of a Super GT if you will; the difference between a Bentley Brooklands and a Porsche 911. Both are probably about as fast, but they aren't really designed for the same purpose. Come to think of it, why aren't there more Super GTs?

edit2: I also wan't to put the (forsaken) Caparo T1 in there. It definately isn't a typical track-day racer, even though that is it's intended purpose. It's not really even a new concept (see the LCC Rocket for example) However, it is intensely special. There's never before been anything that looks so extreme. Still, like the Veyron, it doesn't quite qualify. A supercar needs to make at least a presumption of practicality, as laughable as it usually proves. The Caparo doesn't even attempt this.
 
Last edited:
Eunos_Cosmo
Aventador, Huayra, Tuatara, 599 GTO, Agera, Veyron

Those are the supercars I can think of. There are others just as fast, but they don't seem to represent the 'essence' of supercar to me. Just really fast sports cars. Supercars have to be a bit compromised I think. They should also be indefinably 'special.' A 599 GTO is special in a way the 458 Italia isn't. Cars like the Noble M600 could probably outdrag quite a few of the above, but it's not finely finished enough, there isn't enough attention to detail to qualify it as a supercar. It's just a tactical weapon.
Click to expand...

Thats an interesting concept. I do agree the 599 GTO being more of a supercar than an Italia. I only used it as an example. I did also mention a supercar having a visceral experience to driving it. To me the Pagani Zondas would deliver that feeling quite well as well as the Carrera GT. I'm not claiming in any way that i've been behind the wheel of these cars but its pretty obvious after watching video and reading reviews that these sort of cars are truly my kind of car to drive.
 
Now, you mention compromise...what compromise does a Veyron have. Apart from its ridiculous operating costs, its probably a better daily driver than any of us have. To me a supercar is about a level of performance, not a price, or whatever else you're using with those (as you could buy a few Aventadors for the price of a Huayra)...
 
Age of the Supercar...hmmm

I can see that. While some are trying to degrade the 458 and others into some sort of nebulous "not a supercar" group I think that is flawed. While they aren't the top of the field (at least by specs) if think they a definitely supercars. I look at a supercar as being something special. They are fast, exotic looking, they push boundaries and get attention. Their are attitude can be greater than their performance. When you drive one you feel special, and when people see one they feel special. One ride in a “not a supercar” and that person will change their thoughts.

That taken I'd bet more supercars have been made in this decade than that 3 before it. Lamborgini made more than 10,000 Gallardos, Ferrari made tons of 360 and 430s. Porsche, Ford, Audi and even Toyota have been in the ring. The idea that this is a supercar era is pretty legit.

But I would say rather that this is the era of fantastic cars. Leave the late 80's and early 90's as the Supercar Era, perhaps most of all because that is the Era that sort of launched the idea of the Hyper car (which in all honesty is an extremely weaky defined). In many ways that era showed us what a car could be. It gave us and idea of what cars could be with further application of science.

As I said this is the Fantastic Era. Computers didn't ruin the car, rather they made cars amazing. Aerodynamics gave us better shapes. Now we have cars on the dealer floors that not only don't generated lift, which was the big supercar thing in the late 80's, but actually make downforce. This was unheard of outside of racecars 30 years ago. Large cars are now making 30MPG+. Horsepower is through the roof, reliability is too. Cars are safer than ever. Across the a broad range of performance topics todays car blow everything out of the water.

So age of the supercar? I'd say there has been a second coming. But really the most amazing thing has been the crop of cars that has risen from the ashes that remained of the car industry 30-35 years ago. Today is the best time to be a car guy. Enjoy the Fantastic Era.
 
Thank you Cloud that was a good summary of what today is. Technology has brought us some amazing feats in cars today and i didnt really wanna touch the subject of Hypercars. Your right about the 80's and 90's cars teaching us what cars could acheive. Nowadays we're able to acheive that with much better results and safer more reliable cars.
 
I see a strange issue happening with the idea of the supercar here. Supercars are special and they place performance first and that is about it. There is not a hard line between the sports car and the supercar, but I normally define this line by the cars purpose and its engine.

A sports car doesn't have to be fast; It is about the enjoyment of the driver. Miatas, Boxters, 350zs are solid sports cars. They are made to bring a smile to the drivers face. They aren't special because you see a lot of them.

If you get past that. The second part is the engine. A supercar engine is normally something outside of the norm. Most times it has a special history or cutting edge technology. Performance most commonly the focus of the power plant.

Yeah these rules are perfect. It is still not a strong definition but lets watch it work.

A C4 Corvette they are common. Too common to everyday to call a supercar. They are out right out of the supercar running. But what about a C4 ZR-1? Well it looks a lot like the regular C4, but rather than to regular LT engine, it rocks a Lotus designed DOHC V8. That engine pulls it out of the fog and into the supercar definition.

The NSX, it was made of aluminum and had (at the time) a very exotic mix of technology. If you saw one on the road in 92, you looked. Yeah they aren't the fastest now, but they were a super car in every way then, and once a supercar always a supercar.

Some cars are hard, The Lotus Exige for example it has the looks. The engine is a rather bland Toyota piece that is made special with the addition of a supercharger. But when I see one, I don't get excited much. While it is a cool car, it feel less special than cars you would call supercars. The little Loti are everywhere and are not a supercars.



As for a supercar having no compromise, that isn't true. Everything we make is compromised. Every car made has points of compromise. The Veyron is heavy. It is not a sporty car in the classical sense, it is very much a chunk of well designed equipment much like Bugattis of old. It is too much for a track; Rather it is a massively powerful tourer.
 
Eric.
Now, you mention compromise...what compromise does a Veyron have. Apart from its ridiculous operating costs, its probably a better daily driver than any of us have. To me a supercar is about a level of performance, not a price, or whatever else you're using with those (as you could buy a few Aventadors for the price of a Huayra)...
Click to expand...

How about the compromise of $30,000 tire changes? Or the fact that the interior noise level is somewhere around 100db at highway speeds? Or the fact that the engine doesn't have a cover? It's probably less compromised than the others, true, but it still is.

I consider the Gallardo a sports car and the Murcielago/Aventador a supercar. The Gallardo shares a similar footprint to most other cars. The Aventador sacrifices a practical size for high speed stability, so as a result it's wide, low, and has a long wheelbase without really any useful cabin space. It's compromised so that it's performance can be maximized.
 
Eric.
Source? Seemed quite easy to hear May at 253mph.
Click to expand...

I believe it was an issue of either Evo or Octane, I can't remember.

Quick google search returns:

It’s loud inside—and not the delicious kind of loud you get in a Ferrari. The tires moan oppressively at any speed, and the engine’s voice is mostly a white noise of whirring and whooshing.
Click to expand...

Source

At slower speeds, the Bugatti Veyron's Michelin PAX run-flat tires generate noticeable tire noise. The ride is firm, and can be surprisingly harsh on roads that are not well maintained.
Click to expand...

Source

Even at a steady, motorway cruising speed, the Bugatti is noisy. Not, I discovered, because of the engine. Slip the car into neutral at high speed and the noise level hardly drops – because it’s all road roar, most likely the sound of those gigantic, 365-section run-flat tyres thumping coarse British tarmac. With its restricted view, its wider girth, more jiggly ride and that incessant road noise, I found the Veyron the far more tiring car on a long journey. It suffers also from a serious lack of luggage space. Anything larger than the tiniest of squashy bags has to live on the passenger seat. So, if you’ve got a passenger… Well, exactly. Two people cannot go away for the weekend in the Veyron unless they DHL their luggage on ahead.
Click to expand...

Rowan Atkinson



Listen around 5:35-5:50. Very loud. Reminds me of the furthest-rear seats of a Mcdonnell-Douglas MD-80 :p

I do love the Veyron, especially the supersport. I love how they finally were allowed to violate the shape and styling of the car for maximum performance. I like the sort of 1930s-esque streamlining on the rear, it somehow doesn't look contemporary, and I like that.
 
Last edited:

Latest Posts

Back