The Arrogance of an Elitist Player

[PirovacBoy]

Hey Folks, as you can see in my Op, I would like to discuss your thoughts about this Theme.
I‘ll give you an example what I mean.
Since I stopped playing Sport Mode because of some Clowns, I completely switched to race in Lobbies and get my daily fix in racing.
I have lots of good Guys in my friend list and racing is very clean and respectful. I appreciate that the most, regardless if I race slower Guys or faster ones.

But lately i‘ve Been in some lobbies with the very best of the best i‘d say, and this is what gave me to think and led me to open this thread.
I‘ve noticed that they disrespect slower drivers like me and race with two things measure. While they race amongst them they pretty much keep it clean and respect themselves and give room to overtake and in general behave honorful. They want to cleanly set up a pass and impresse with their skillful driving, whilst slower drivers don’t deserve this treatment as they are just obstacles in their way which need to be passed, regardless if clean or not.
And if a slower driver like me gets in their way, they simply take in account that if their „Move“ ruins my race it just doesn’t matter. A move which they would not attempt amongst themselves, but amongst a slower driver it seems to be justified and worth a try.

At least a small minority of them have the ballz to apologize after they did, which brings me to the Conclusion that it couldn’t have been bad racecraft from my side. They know it wasn’t fair, which again in my opinion doesn’t justify it.
And some of them simply can’t take it to loose. They spin out and start blaming their Pets or whatever reason to explain why they messed up.
All of that is very weak, and no big Sportsmanship.

So, my question to the Elite Players or so called Extraterrestrials, am I right? Am I wrong?
Tell me from your perspective how you see it racing against slower drivers.
And keep in mind, this is NO RANT.
Just a honest question hoping for honest answers

 

[Nuschel01]

If I encounter people like that in a lobby I'm the boss at they get kicked, easy as that.

Also please tell me more about how you are slow?!

 

[NJ72]

I guess it depends on which way you look at it.

If they are lapping you, then race ettiquette (and rules in a lot of series) is that the slower driver should move off the racing line to let the leaders pass - thus while they are not justified in their behaviour, you are the one technically in the wrong.

Likewise, if you aren't being lapped, then there is no excuse for bad sportsmanship, regardless of whether you are much faster or slower than the other cars.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I guess it depends on which way you look at it.

If they are lapping you, then race ettiquette (and rules in a lot of series) is that the slower driver should move off the racing line to let the leaders pass - thus while they are not justified in their behaviour, you are the one technically in the wrong.

Likewise, if you aren't being lapped, then there is no excuse for bad sportsmanship, regardless of whether you are much faster or slower than the other cars.

Just my 2 cents.

Perfect. I fully agree. Good statement 👍

 

[zaxs]

@PirovacBoy Great thoughts!

I'm often watching streams of some YT/GT stars well known here and I can say (my opinion) that only @Tidgney is example of racing superstar and sportsmen in one!

Slower drivers DO exist and if they are in front, they aren't only ghosts, like many of aliens are imaging them...

 

[PirovacBoy]

If I encounter people like that in a lobby I'm the boss at they get kicked, easy as that.

Also please tell me more about how you are slow?!

It’s something different. If i‘m Hosting, the E.T‘s don’t feel to step down to my Lobbies. If I encounter Clowns I friendly ask them to leave, if they regret i have to make use of my House right. It’s the same like in my Job as a Security Staff. Although I make it funny, you know me
Well I didn’t say i‘m slow, I said slower. But i‘m definitely slow in the Elites Eyes

 

[ghostrider135]

If I encounter people like that in a lobby I'm the boss at they get kicked, easy as that.

Also please tell me more about how you are slow?!

He isn't slow I raced him once in sport mode and I really really had difficulty keeping up.

As an aside though I think the problem is ego for alot of people, Yes it's great to beat people I mean that's the ultimate goal in racing, I just reckon that some of the faster guys are so used to the ego trip that they have a genuine disregard for people who are still learning or simply just aren't as naturally gifted or have the optimal setup.

 

[bmxmitch]

Welcome in the 21st century, where it is always "me first"

 

[Nuschel01]

He isn't slow I raced him once in sport mode and I really really had difficulty keeping up.

I know he isn't slow, we race quite a lot if he manages to not knock me off into the gravel

 

[polizei]

If they want to hotlap they can find their own space, of they want to race then they need to change their behavior.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I know he isn't slow, we race quite a lot if he manages to not knock me off into the gravel

Hehe, the best is I do not even have to touch you to knock you off into the Gravel, it’s my sheer presence that does the job for me

 

[nuu1212]

Their thinking might just be this:
This guy is slow(er), so I cannot waste time overtaking him. I have to take the first opportunity. Even if it's bad.
He should also know I am faster and not fight back.

 

[Nuschel01]

Hehe, the best is I do not even have to touch you to knock you off into the Gravel, it’s my sheer presence that does the job for me

Maybe this sunday my Aston knocks yours off Who knows?

 

[Crazy Taylor]

It not just arrogance as shows with recent FIA updates. Its the moaning because its not as exclusive as it used to be.

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

In warm-up and qualifying: if you are slower, let the faster person through so that you do not hold them up.

In a race: It is the faster persons responsibility to overtake cleanly. If you are being lapped, obviously get out of the way.

With regards to a race that you are both in contention for, regardless of who is “faster” (I say this because pit strategy and even just keeping it on the track, avoiding accumulating penalties (Monza lol) can mean you win, even if you are slower), everyone needs to race clean. No excuses.

You know something, the top guys will never treat a slower driver unfairly. It’s the ones who have something to prove that end up making the type of moves you’re describing.

Although, it is also the defenders job to make sure they are defending cleanly. It can be aggravating when you are clearly faster than someone but cannot overtake them fairly because of unsportsmanlike defending/blocking etc.

Driving is for everyone.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Maybe this sunday my Aston knocks yours off Who knows?

Yeah maybe, who knows, miracles happen but not against my almighty 458

 

[PirovacBoy]

You know something, the top guys will never treat a slower driver unfairly. It’s the ones who have something to prove

A REAL top driver with a healthy selfesteem and integrity won’t, I guess. Though the problem is when being in a lobby with many Elite drivers the so called „Noob“ must be overtaken in order to not loose the face. By any means. That’s what’s pitiful.
I also guess it’s an ego thing as it was mentioned by @ghostrider135 .
But let’s just wait until an Elite Player shows up and describes it from his View. I would really appreciate it.

 

[zzz_pt]

Speed and Sportsmanship are two completely different skills, so most people will only develop one of them (usually speed) and think that because they're getting faster, they're getting better, which is not true. Only a few people who are aliens in terms of speed are also examples of sportsmanship.

 

[bmxmitch]

Speed and Sportsmanship are two completely different skills, so most people will only develop one of them (usually speed) and think that because they're getting faster, they're getting better, which is not true. Only a few people who are aliens in terms of speed are also examples of sportsmanship.

What happened to you btw? I never see you online anymore, or at least, not in GTS...
Sick of the Penalty System? Or just tired of the same old tracks in GTS!?

 

[inri]

Its not necessarily always intentional .. I have nearly went into the back of drivers or had to go up the inside because my lap lines are so dialled in that a slower player taking an unusual line or reapplying brakes mid corner has caught me out. which would be my fault but not intentional

 

[JulesDennis]

I guess it depends on which way you look at it.

If they are lapping you, then race ettiquette (and rules in a lot of series) is that the slower driver should move off the racing line to let the leaders pass - thus while they are not justified in their behaviour, you are the one technically in the wrong.

Likewise, if you aren't being lapped, then there is no excuse for bad sportsmanship, regardless of whether you are much faster or slower than the other cars.

Just my 2 cents.

This is not true.
Tell me,in what racing series rules stats that a lapped car should "move out of the racing line" to let the leader(s) pass?
I cannot think any series that have rules like that.But to copy my post in another topic with similar talk:

"
What lapped cars should do is to keep a racing line in order for the faster car to pass them in a safe manner (rl or sim racing).
Many times it helps if they give a lot of room but that cannot happen all the time.
The main thing is that a lapped car should:
-need to use clear body language (driving a predictable line -no nesseseraly off the racing line-,no sudden moves or braking)
-pick a side and then religiously stay there until the car has passed (even try slowing a little to expedite the pass)
-be aware there could be any number of lapping cars
The lapping cars:
-be aware that the car getting lapping may have absolutely no knowledge of their presence (especially in case of 2 or more cars lapping another)
-it is their responsibility to make a clean pass as in any other case."

This is what race ettiquette dictates.

 

[R10tz0r]

If I know the guy behind me is a lot faster than I am I try my best to make sure they get past easily without losing too much time, whether I open up the inside on a hairpin and make it obvious to them or lift off on a straight.

In my eyes the speed differential is that great that we aren't in the same fight I'd much rather let them march off and follow as best as I can to either catch the field in front or use them as tool to aid me getting through too or to gap the cars behind.

holding them behind me slows us both down and often leads to an accident, I'd much rather they had an accident with someone else and capitalize on that

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The 'excuse' I've gotten in sport mode is that "I kept bumping you because you are slow and we're losing ground to first place". Of course I am slow when you keep bumping me at the apex and mess up my exit.

Yet I rarely see aliens unless they hit each other and have to slow down a lot. Then it's always the unfair penalty system when its between them, yet it's the other driver when they get a penalty from hitting a slower driver

 

[Lord Protector]

I appreciate that the most, regardless if I race slower Guys or faster ones.

I am offended by this @PirovacBoy .

Seriously though, I haven't experienced any of this I guess that makes me the Extraterrestrial

 

[zzz_pt]

What happened to you btw? I never see you online anymore, or at least, not in GTS...
Sick of the Penalty System? Or just tired of the same old tracks in GTS!?

My right hand wrist is not OK so I can't drive as I did. Basically I can't go fast atm... I've tried again after the last UP (because I really wanted to drive the E30 M3) but I'm still not recovered. It sucks.

 

[GhostChild]

Hey Folks, as you can see in my Op, I would like to discuss your thoughts about this Theme.
I‘ll give you an example what I mean.
Since I stopped playing Sport Mode because of some Clowns, I completely switched to race in Lobbies and get my daily fix in racing.
I have lots of good Guys in my friend list and racing is very clean and respectful. I appreciate that the most, regardless if I race slower Guys or faster ones.

But lately i‘ve Been in some lobbies with the very best of the best i‘d say, and this is what gave me to think and led me to open this thread.
I‘ve noticed that they disrespect slower drivers like me and race with two things measure. While they race amongst them they pretty much keep it clean and respect themselves and give room to overtake and in general behave honorful. They want to cleanly set up a pass and impresse with their skillful driving, whilst slower drivers don’t deserve this treatment as they are just obstacles in their way which need to be passed, regardless if clean or not.
And if a slower driver like me gets in their way, they simply take in account that if their „Move“ ruins my race it just doesn’t matter. A move which they would not attempt amongst themselves, but amongst a slower driver it seems to be justified and worth a try.

At least a small minority of them have the ballz to apologize after they did, which brings me to the Conclusion that it couldn’t have been bad racecraft from my side. They know it wasn’t fair, which again in my opinion doesn’t justify it.
And some of them simply can’t take it to loose. They spin out and start blaming their Pets or whatever reason to explain why they messed up.
All of that is very weak, and no big Sportsmanship.

So, my question to the Elite Players or so called Extraterrestrials, am I right? Am I wrong?
Tell me from your perspective how you see it racing against slower drivers.
And keep in mind, this is NO RANT.
Just a honest question hoping for honest answers

You're not slow by any means I saw you race clean and fast, with some better moments than others like all of us. I see your qualifiying times for daily races and you are usually up there even in top 10 times. Usually aliens are 1.xx seg to 3 or 4 secs faster than us, depending on car and track. I've never experienced something like feel unrespectful by the 2 or 3 aliens I encounter in lobbies, but I know what you mean. Maybe you're more respectful than other people avoiding hits everytime as posible and that's a good thing I try to do too.

If I encounter people like that in a lobby I'm the boss at they get kicked, easy as that.

Also please tell me more about how you are slow?!

Hey I saw you yesterday at the Tsukuba 20 laps with the M3. I didnt have many hopes to get a good result since I had the sound bug and cannot hear the sound of tires at all, but I decided to give it a try and test the 1.15 penalties for the first time.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Although, it is also the defenders job to make sure they are defending cleanly. It can be aggravating when you are clearly faster than someone but cannot overtake them fairly because of unsportsmanlike defending/blocking etc.

Absolutely d‘acor, the problem is how should that be handled if the difference is relative small in Combination with a track like Tsukuba?

 

[Nuschel01]

Hey I saw you yesterday at the Tsukuba 20 laps with the M3. I didnt have many hopes to get a good result since I had the sound bug and cannot hear the sound of tires at all, but I decided to give it a try and test the 1.15 penalties for the first time.

I restarted my game prior to joining that race to avoid the bug Your ID is El_GhostChild, right? Can't really remember seeing you tho

 

[Stotty]

Difficult to reply to this, as by simply admitting you consider yourself 'alien' level you sound arrogant!

I'm 100% not Alien fast, but I guess I'd be in the bracket just below, and because of this, whenever I race I'm matched against the very fastest.

I have been in races where someone who's a 'proper' alien has been behind me, and has tried passes on me that were never going to work. But these instances are very rare.

Personally, if I make a mistake and drop back to in to 'the pack', I treat anyone in front of me as I would expect to be treated myself... and when you're in the top group of the matching tree even 'the pack' should be reasonably fast.

Could be in the dailies that these drivers are trying to build/protect DR. But obviously that's not the case in private lobbies .

Absolutely d‘acor, the problem is how should that be handled if the difference is relative small in Combination with a track like Tsukuba?

Overtaking on any track is difficult, even if you're 1s faster over a full lap than the person you're following - and on a tight track like Tskuba, it's even more difficult.

One option to make overtaking a bit easier is to increase slipstream effect (used to be much stronger in earlier versions of the game)... but the likely knock on effect of that would be to cause more carnage in the lower DR levels as people came in to braking zones with more speed.

Fundamentally, whatever level you're at you need to respect everyone you're racing.

 

[Tidgney]

@PirovacBoy Great thoughts!

I'm often watching streams of some YT/GT stars well known here and I can say (my opinion) that only @Tidgney is example of racing superstar and sportsmen in one!

Slower drivers DO exist and if they are in front, they aren't only ghosts, like many of aliens are imaging them...

That's very kind, I try my best to race as clean as possible and be the best example I can be! However sometimes even I see frustration but let me explain a little. I think there's multiple problems or multiple views to be looked at..

Qualifying: I get a little frustrated when for example if you're not the quickest car on circuit and you aim to be the first out the pits straight away you can cause a real pile up/queue behind and that can start off a really bad atmosphere. Now I don't mean if you're 1 or 2 tenths but if you clearly know you're 1 or 2 seconds off the pace then I'd recommend you go out after the initial charge. Just leave it 10/15 seconds rather than racing to be first out. There will be much more space to give you and anyone else room. Personally if I get stuck behind someone on the out lap and I can clearly see I'm quicker (I mean significantly quicker as well here) I will go for the move (Cleanly though of course). Some may see this as aggravation but generally speaking if someone is on your tail in the out lap and it's happened to me as well I'll literally let them go. The worst thing that can happen is that your qualification lap is compromised because a car goes for the overtake, or puts on added pressure to you. If it's a hot lap generally I won't overtake and I'll sit on the bumper as I'll have caught them up in the lap, a good example was at maggoire last week when I literally sat on a bumper until I crossed the line to get my initial time in (Was a good first half of the lap and I'd given a 2+ second gap before even starting the lap which I'd caught up). But if you cause a massive queue there's going to be carnage in any lobby and I've seen that a few times.

You may think 'Tidgney you've never had that feeling' well I can disagree when I race in multi class and I'm in the lower class again knowing I would cause issues I will leave the pits 10/15 seconds later. The only exception to this would be if qualifying times tight in terms of the length of the session and then you have to really judge the map, who's close and who's in what car. Essentially qualifying smart can be sometimes better than being first out.

Race: I really don't understand anybody who thinks they can just push people or go for crazy dive bombs into corners. Even aliens get this done to them by other Aliens because they see themselves as better. It's something I really don't get, and something I really don't like. It's something I actually call people out on because there's no need for it and it's hugely disrespectful. You're not going to win every race, and there's always somebody faster! Even @TRL LIGHTNING would probably say there's always someone faster or at least the ability to go faster I imagine and I see lightening as currently the fastest GT Sport player and respect him a lot in terms of the videos and help he does bring to the community. I mean if you see me as an alien and I suppose I am I guess as I'm in the top 1%? I dunno but anyway I have people who just completely dive bomb me and I'll just avoid these players as I know in a real tournament you do that you're getting a penalty as I've been an adjudicator at live events. At the end of the day you treat people how you want to be treated... Maybe it's an age thing? Who knows, but I'll always try to race as clean and as fair as possible. Sometimes fairness is very opinionated and 50/50 again I had something like that recently but do your best, race clean and others will recognize this. If I do feel I'm faster than someone and you'll see it in my videos I still catch up to people and I'll treat them with respect in terms of the racing and I've had some fantastic races/battles with guys/girls I wouldn't normally race because usually we'd be at different ends of the grid.. Either me at the back and them at the front or the other way around.

Also nose cutting don't do it! Absolutely hate that and that happens a lot and then they blame the guy for being hit even though they were evidently on their inside!

Also just the final thing, a lot of players speak to each other so if you're an alien and your smashing and dive bombing you'll get a reputation as such and Karma can really come back to haunt people. I've seen some shocking things that people have sent me that 'aliens' have done in order for either them to win or to let their team mates win, literally actions which would result in bans or at least teams losing serious sponsorship.

Just race clean, and fair and have a good time !