The case agaisnt online leader boards, credit rewards and the like.

[Zychon]

I'm actually not in favor of any automated credit reward for online racing. Look at any multiplayer game with a sort of adversarial economy and you'll find it is a testimony to the fact that it's too easy to exploit (especially if it lets your buddies have alternate accounts). I'm okay with people pooling up their own credits and racing for the jackpot, because you aren't creating credits from thin air. Trusting someone to race honestly on that bet is up to you, though.

For the same reasons, I really could care less about leader boards. Pure time trial boards make sense, but online race lap times and points rankings are positively hopeless. You can implement handicapping systems, strength of opponent systems, whatever you want. People will always find a way to team up and sandbag or stat pad. If you insist on one, be my guest. Just know that the rankings are meaningless.

The only way this type of online competition really works without cheating or exploitation is to have some type of human moderated system with sanctioned events such as CAL/CPL, TWL, MLG, etc. The community effort is the one that always works, and it is the one that always means something.

If you tell people you are the best CoD:MW2 player alive and point them to a website that tracks stats from multiplayer servers, people just laugh. If you show someone a stack of QuakeCon awards, they still laugh ...And then ask if you've ever kissed a girl ...But the other 28 year old virgins in your audience will be impressed.

Anyhow, it's a terrific idea, but it is best left to the community that cares enough to do it right, and not some automated system. It looks like the people here on GTP are ahead of the game on that front and I wish them the best.

 

[roomisonfire]

You know I have to agree about the leaderboards, it makes me think of the MAG tournament before the game came out. Granted, I'm not the best MAG player, but since the winner was based on most XP gained, it was impossible for someone like me to ever win due to people teaming up to play round the clock and the like, and the same concept applies here. As far as earning credits go though I'm all for it I could use the extra cash

 

[EnD22]

I have to agree on this, online leader boards have been killing a lot of games online experience. People choose to put in time for points that mean nothing then to invest in actually getting better at the game.

 

[MEATHOLE1958]

there are ways to do it, battlefeild has a system where your rateing goes up and down depending on your performance, it would need thought though.

 

[klondike]

I disagre a lot with this.

I think its a major fail there is no credit award, exp earn, or time trial leaderboards.

I dont think it should be such high credit prizes as it was in Prologue, but something that gives a reward for playing online would give the game much more longevity.

I enjoy playing online, buts its stupid that i dont go anywhere forward in the game unless i force my self to play against the AI.

Also its part of the human nature to compete against eachother. and you know what any competition without a reward is flawed due to the fact that people care less when there is nothing at risk.

 

[P1]

Not everyone wants to spend forever in A Spec mode doing races over and over again to buy the cars they want and leaderboards are needed in racing games, i wanna see what the fastest lap times.

 

[Ghoa$t]

Seems like a lot of people didn't play prologue. Leaderboards and an online credit system are needed in this game.

 

[Spyder-Si]

Seems like a lot of people didn't play prologue. Leaderboards and an online credit system are needed in this game.

Fully agree, GT5 is so far behind Forza online it isn't even funny. There's no hope of building a community of tuners and racers if there isn't a P.I. Index to tune to, if it doesn't get sorted I'll be back on Forza after I've golded single player ....

 

[MattNasty]

Yeah I played froze online myself and I have to say that I loved the way forza 2 was set up. I think it sucks that I have to choose when to play online and when to just rave online. Like in froze 2 I would make all my money playing online and that was lots of fun. As of right now. I have to go sorry, gotta get offline so that I can race a.I. For a few hours to build some cars to then play online. We need money for playing online ASAP. Btw no money for playing online won't stop me from loving gt5

 

[Rocket Punch]

Credits and xp are coming, like it or not.

If you think online is bad now, when they start giving money and xp it will be unplayable. So I hope you enjoy crash fests, cause that is what you are gonna get every race.

Online leader board is and always will be an incentive for cheating. Just look at every single game with an online leader board.

 

[Exorcet]

Cheaters lose to room kick.

And if you think money is the devil, there is an easy fix:

PD sanctioned online races
-Credit rewards
-Stats

User created rooms
-Same as now

 

[Dapper]

Seems like a lot of people didn't play prologue. Leaderboards and an online credit system are needed in this game.

It kind of sucks not knowing how fast you are really going...

 

[Egghead43]

Seems like a lot of people didn't play prologue. Leaderboards and an online credit system are needed in this game.

I'm on the fence with this one. One one hand, I don't want to have to grind away at boring AI races to get money to buy cars for online racing. On the other hand, I don't want there to be so much at stake that it's just going to promote a "win at all costs" type of competition.

Prologue was different in the fact that most people racing online had every available car, and was maxed out at 2M credits. It was essentially racing without rewards as it is now in GT5.

If PD can sort out a performance point and penalty system that actually works, then sure, throw some money at the online events. I'm a bit surprised that in some ways GT5 is a step backwards from Prologue in the online department. Sure we have private rooms, and user created public rooms, but little in the way of leveling out the field with a points system.

 

[UnnamedRailer]

Rewards, XP, Leaderboards = incentive to play.
and the longer people play the better for the developers specially if they have alot DLC planned/lined up for a game. Back when I was playing GT3, I got bored with the main game so I just spent majority of my time tuning cars and trying to beat times on this old website I used to go to and compete with other peoples lap times. Although it was a separate thing it made GT3 fun for me. Now I can do that again with GT5, but with this day and age and other games (not just racing titles) including that feature, it should be in GT5 by default and it doesnt matter if you guys dont really care much for it, coz theres a big group of people that does.

 

[RSection8]

I'm dissapointed with the online play. They should've put more into playing online then in offline play. They need some type of leveling system that would allow you to race with certain groups (pros or rookies), on certain tracks, online seasons would be awesome, unlocking cars, credits, or even an all NSX Event Championship. And there should be a penalty (leveling down) for not driving clean. There's so much more that should've been done. PD didn't even scratch the surface. Online is just an epic failure in this 21st century of gaming. If I had the money to fix my PC, I would be playing IRACING instead of searching around forums trying to find some ppl to link up with and race. It's not convenient and that's what matters to most ppl.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

I want another way to 'grind' credits and exp level besides A-Spec!

 

[Apollo87]

I believe the leaderboards would be just time trial boards like they were in GT5P and those were really good fun, I remember spending about 2 hours driving a TVR Tamora down Suzuka and got in the top 10, really nice way of spending 2 hours if you ask me.

 

[Zychon]

Eh... seems a few people didn't really read the original post. A time leader board makes perfect sense. A point-based, or a lap time system exclusive to actual live racing doesn't, unless you can prevent exploitation.

I suppose some type of monetary/XP reward would work, if it was based off of what you would get for similar A-Spec event. That might offset some of the time "missed" in playing online. A place to grind up credits or XP faster is precisely what it should not be, though. ...And racing should be its own incentive, no?

You guys make a good point though, I'd rather grind online, even if the XP/Money wasn't as good as single player. The fact that the first few days of online play clogged the "series of tubes" that is the Master Server tells you that PD didn't expect such a heavy demand for online play (no clue as to what gave them that idea).

Beyond that, there are tons of community solutions to online competition. They've been around since the early days of multiplayer gaming. There has never been a built in system in any game that could compare.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more tools in the game to create events and such (racing season is a great idea.... online calendar, anyone?). I'd also love to see XP/Money rewards, if a decent automated penalty system was in place. I'm with Rocket Punch, though -It's going to be a bloody mess in there.

 

[Tharain]

I disagre a lot with this.

I think its a major fail there is no credit award, exp earn, or time trial leaderboards.

same here... i wish it would be something like in Prologue...

 

[Destinkeys]

Look, if racing damages your car, and you have to PAY for those repairs, then hell yeah! We need a prize purse for racing!

Can you imagine it... one bad shunt online, and you got to grind for a day or so to pay for it all Way to kill the whole idea!

To be honest, apart from the dedicated Clean Racer Clubs, the game REALLY needs a random race mode. Lobby creator picks from the Arcade cars, sets rules, and after a set number of people join, off you go! Not EVERYBODY can afford to hang around and wait until a posted start time...

Thing is, we need some kind of Stewards, to keep the bashing to a minimum. But, here's the rub... When you go for License Tests, the game DSQ's you for cutting chicanes, driving off course, and ramming. Why the HECK can't that be enabled online, to police casual games? Weight it so that the rammer gets the penalty, not the rammed... Lurkers (those idiots that love to park around a blind corner and act as a barrier) could be booted by not keeping up at least a semi-decent average speed.

I appreciate what Clean Driving Clubs do, and all that, but surely there's got to be a way that a simple random race can be enabled without it turning into a bash-fest. As I said, if damage costs you money, there MUST be an incentive to win, and a deterrent to bashers (who usually lose), otherwise it's going to be 8 hours of grinding for ONE race...

 

[Destinkeys]

Another point. If damage is NOT enabled, then NO MONEY for winning. Make sense...

As to leaderboards, well, if they can enable auto-detection of track cutting and bumping, then any of these can nullify your race stats... Ought to make them fairer?

 

[coyote_green]

I would like to see a three pronged attack on this.

1. Let moderators of rooms set a minimum license level to compete in the room. This by itself won't stop every basher out there, but at least they will have to pass all the licenses before they are able to do that.

2. Assign players a Skill Ranking. Completing a clean race would add to your ranking while amassing penalties would lower your ranking. Make this ranking visible for all to see. Again, this doesn't stop the problem, but it gives the moderator a good idea of who is racing and who is not.

3. If winning rewards you than bashing should penalize you. Not sure if this would be possible, but I would take credits from drivers that receive a penalty. Take it straight out of their credit account. Again, this would not stop it, but as bashers grew bored of their cars and could not afford others maybe they would just move on.

The reality is that there are enough players out there that want online rewards that it is going to happen, and with that there will be those that exploit it and those that will revel in pissing others off. I think the best we can hope for is giving players the ability to see beforehand whom they are racing.

 

[breezy]

There are penalizations for cutting track and ramming. Host chooses whether they are on or off. I like the idea. I have had some good races with them enabled. I race online because it's fun and every race is different. AI races are so boring. Even though I grind the heck out of the Like the Wind Indy race. 70k in less than 3 1/2 minutes is nice. What I don't like about racing online is I feel like it's a complete waste of my time. There is no incentive for winning. Whether it be credits or XP I would like some incentive for coming in first place in an online race. Right now the lobbies that hold races every 15 minutes..the only incentive for coming in first is that you get to start the next race in sea last. I hope something comes soon.

 

[Destinkeys]

I don't think they should be an option. How are the noobs (and I put myself in with them, at least as far as GT5 handling goes) going to develop good driving techniques if they can bypass them so easily? This doesn't JUST apply to online. While the License Tests are INCREDIBLY intolerant of contact and cutting, the A-Spec's aren't...

What's the POINT of insisting that you drive like a pro to get a license, if as soon as you have got it, you can go back to being a wanker in A-Spec?

'Wanker in A-Spec, wanker online'...

There's altogether too much inconsistency in this game...

 

[LJ]

A racing game without fastest lap leaderboards is laughable

 

[Piket]

Seems like a lot of people didn't play prologue. Leaderboards and an online credit system are needed in this game.

Why are the leaderboards needed?

 

[RzB]

Fastest lap leaderboards is redundant, whoever owns an F1 will just go set them all by making a lounge of every track then doing a few laps.. Credits and XP is whats needed. Also everyone who participates in a race should get an amount, so people don't just frickin bail when they are losing. Also bonuses for no damage/clean driving.

 

[jjohan35]

'Practice mode' in GT5 should have been the place to implement online lap times that also records the car used and its horsepower. Horsepower brackets are then used and people will have to see if they can get the best lap time on any given track within any given horsepower bracket. Even if it may promote cheating, it still gives an incentive to do something (anything) online. It would also add another function to practice mode because I often get a spectacular lap time in there that of course is purely meaningless. And 99% of the time, I would be more interested in competing against my friends rather than some random number on the leaderboard. I REALLY liked how NFS Hot Pursuit implemented the autolog feature to promote competition among friends. Even if Hot Pursuit is just an arcade racer, it really revolutionized racing among the online community. Do the same thing with our lap times in practice mode please.

Regarding actual online racing against other players, I agree that cash/xp rewards should NOT be handed out of thin air to the winners. I personally think if you want to participate in a competitive online race, there is a minimum buy-in $$ determined by horsepower (more horsepower, higher buy-in $$). And of course the jackpot is split among the top winners (in descending amount of course). The leaderboard should keep track of who has won the most $$ from these online bets, so its dependent not only on number of wins but also which races you've entered (high rollers = high horsepower races). In other words if you want money out of thin air, you'll have to grind A spec or B spec. And then take that cash to the online racing. But please no handing out of $$ or xp out of thin air.

Regardless I have no faith that PD will implement the competitive online function properly. PD is absolutely great at making a racing sim. Not entirely sure if they can turn it into a great racing game. Those of you who expect to see some level of moderation among online races are kidding yourselves into thinking that you can get that kind of service without paying for it. If you want something like that, expect to pay a monthly service.

 

[Exorcet]

Regarding actual online racing against other players, I agree that cash/xp rewards should NOT be handed out of thin air to the winners. I personally think if you want to participate in a competitive online race, there is a minimum buy-in $$ determined by horsepower (more horsepower, higher buy-in $$). And of course the jackpot is split among the top winners (in descending amount of course). The leaderboard should keep track of who has won the most $$ from these online bets, so its dependent not only on number of wins but also which races you've entered (high rollers = high horsepower races). In other words if you want money out of thin air, you'll have to grind A spec or B spec. And then take that cash to the online racing. But please no handing out of $$ or xp out of thin air.

Why? The whole point of online is avoiding GT Life. No one should be forced to play that mode. And restricting entrance to online isn't a good idea. The game is there to be played.

Online should just be its own thing. What hurts it more than anything is being linked to GT mode. Just let the burning ship sink.

 

[jjohan35]

Why? The whole point of online is avoiding GT Life. No one should be forced to play that mode. And restricting entrance to online isn't a good idea. The game is there to be played.

Online should just be its own thing. What hurts it more than anything is being linked to GT mode. Just let the burning ship sink.

Disagree. Obviously people can still race casually online without earning anything. But if you want rewards, you still need to go through A spec mode or we'll get boatloads of people who jump online without learning how to race and it will turn into a crashfest. This is exactly why everyone is afraid of competitive online racing in GT5 because everyone will treat it like bumper cars. If you want the dough to race competitively online, learn to race offline and collect enough money for the buy-in. Once you run out of money from racing online, obviously you are crappy and need to learn how to drive, so this will force you to go through A spec. This will filter out stupid racers who will crash into anything and everything while ruining it for everyone else.