"The Cure!"

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 2' started by gtmaster08, Mar 5, 2008.

  1. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    You know how whenever the Impreza Rally Edition reaches 6th gear and the needle reaches the red part of the speedometer it tends to reach its top speed and go down and up continuously on a straightaway? Well I was able to cure that by simply altering the Impreza's 5th gear ratio to its minimum level! That way, when the impreza reaches the 6th gear, since the gear is smaller the needle would take longer to get to the red part of the speedometer, thus curing that annoying "Redlining"! And to prove this theory right, I even did the same thing with my fully tuned [R] Skyline GTR V Spec and I got the same results as when I did it with the Impreza Rally Edition!:D
     
  2. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    You changed the 5th gear, or the 6th gear?

    Minimum means "highest" in a sense? (More wheel rotations per engine revolution). (When you change a gear ratio value to be lower, the corresponding line shifts to the right on the graph, indicating that it will do higher speeds before redlining).

    So, if you changed the 6th gear, what you said makes more sense.

    The other way to cure redlining is to make the final drive a lower number (which would be considered higher gearing).

    In all [size=+1]GT[/size] games, if you take the value shown for a gear, and multiply it by the value of the final drive, that is the number of times the engine turns per wheel revolution. So, the smaller that number, the faster the car goes before the engine redlines. But the higher that number, the more easily the car can accelerate at a low speed (generally).
     
  3. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    What I meant by changing the 6th gear is on the settings screen for gear ratios it has "1st" first, "2nd" second, "3rd" third, "4th" fourth, "5th" fifth and then "Final" last. I had changed only the "5th" gear ratio setting in turn leading to me saying that I had changed the 6th gear's speed. Confusing huh?
     
  4. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    Final is final drive. It sounds now like the Impreza has only 5 speeds, so fifth is highest. Yes, to fix an over-revving problem you can either lower the shown ratio for the top gear (making it a "higher gear"), or you can make the final drive a lower number (which is "higher", since it is actually a denominator). Changing only the top gear, in an extreme case, might make it difficult to make the shift from the second-highest gear.

    A simplified notion of a transmission has the engine driving a gear with a certain number of teeth, engaging another gear in the gearbox. The ratio of the number of teeth on those two gears will be the ratio for a particular gear. (Different pairs of gears are used to achieve the various different gear ratios ("gears")). In [size=+1]GT[/size] this ratio is shown, for each sequential gear number (1st, 2nd, etc) as the real number (with decimal fraction) which would be obtained if you divide the number of teeth on the gear "attached" to the drive-shaft (or equivalent) by the number of teeth on the one "attached" to the engine. That tells you how much more slowly the drive shaft spins than the engine. The drive then goes to a bevel gear at the differential, where there are again two gears with different numbers of teeth. (Usually the one on the axle has more teeth). In [size=+1]GT1[/size] that "final drive ratio" is again shown as the real number you would get if you divided the number of teeth on the axle by the number of teeth on the drive shaft (or equivalent).

    When you multiply those two numbers (gear ratio for particular gear and final drive ratio) together, you get the number of times the engine must turn to turn a driving wheel once in that particular gear. The larger that number is, the more times the engine must turn to turn the driving wheel once. When the number is larger, that is usually regarded as a "lower" gear, since it will have a lower top speed, and, in normal use, will be used before a gear where the engine turns fewer times (which also allows a higher top speed).

    Look at how the lines on the graph move when you change the numbers. If you change final drive, it shifts all the lines. If you change one gear only, only the line corresponding to that one gear is moved. (Note: it is the only one which moves; but the lines before and after it may change visible length because each shown line segment starts at the end of the assumed range of the previous one;in fact, all lines could be extended to the bottom-left corner, but that would be cluttered, and not show you the minimum RPM for each gear).

    If you think about it, you will realize that the precision with which you can choose these ratios in [size=+1]GT[/size] is absurd; you would not be able to produce in real life gears with a reasonable number of teeth to obtain most of the ratios.
     
  5. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    The gear ratio chart in GT1 is better than in GT2 because you can directly see how your change affects the gear's top speed from the graph. In GT2 you need to do trial and error by driving and it's very time consuming.

    And um, well done for finding the cure. Have you never been to the settings screen before? The solution to redlining is very obvious.
     
  6. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    HEY! I just found that out over the weekend! So cut me some slack!:grumpy:
     
  7. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    Alright then, I'm sorry gtmaster. Judging from your username it looks like you've been playing GT for a long time and it's just weird for someone playing for that long and haven't found out the simple solution to redlining.
     
  8. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    I'm sorry too. It's just that I'm not much of a Gran Turismo mechanic because I don't know that much about technical stuff with the cars, I just race.
     
  9. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    That's also how I am when I first started racing. I don't care about other stuffs, I just want to beat those other cars on track. But as time goes, I realize that unless I started learning how to setup cars properly I will never ever be a good racer. Fast maybe, yes, but not good. Leaning about settings can come in really useful at times, it also makes you go faster too. So good for you that you've found a way to make that already fast Impreza even faster :)
     
  10. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    Thanks! To tell you the truth, it was just an experimental theory I was working on.:) Another theory that I have is that by altering that 6th gear ratio, I could cure oversteering in FR's like the Supra RZ. But something bad happened!
     
  11. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    By making the gears longer you get less power-on oversteer because the wheels spin less. That's why your Supra oversteer less, but it will make the acceleration slower.
     
  12. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    Really? I guess that's good to know for my next US vs. Japan race!

    Last night, I was working on a new theory is to see which car will go faster; a fully tuned car with all 3 weight reduction stages, or a fully tuned car without weight reduction! And guess what I found out as a result!:D
     
  13. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    The fully tuned car with 3 WR's is definitely faster. Doesn't need a rocket scientist to figure that out.

    On a sidenote though, if the car is already very light before you apply any WR (Trueno, Demio, NSX) then probably the one without WR is faster. Overly light cars bounce around too much and that slows it down.
     
  14. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    By the way, would a racing modified only car weigh the same as one with all 3 WR stages on it?
     
  15. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    I'm not sure what you're asking, but in [size=+1]GT1[/size] doing WR3 before race modification is sort of "optional". The weight of a race-modified car is the same whether or not weight-reduction had been done before race-modification. (If you intend to race-modify a car eventually, weight-reduction for it is arguably a waste of money). It's just an odd feature of the game.

    In contrast, in [size=+1]GT2[/size], WR3 is required before you can do race-modification.

    Or is there a particular model of car whose race-modified weight vs WR3 weight you are asking about?
     
  16. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    That's all true, but I thought RM also does more WR, so RM is like WR Stage 4 + aero kits. I forget about this in GT1, but in GT2 it's definitely like that (RM also does WR).
     
  17. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    Guess what? I'm working another new theory! But this time, I will tell you what my theory is ONLY when I prove it to be 100% true!

    Well, I managed to prove my theory 100% true! And that was by changing the Impreza Rally Edition's 6th gear ratio setting to 0.730, (or something like that) I was able to give the Impreza awesome handling when cornering on the SS Route 11 track WITHOUT reducing acceleration or speed! Cool huh?:D
     
  18. daan

    daan Moderator

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    So you gave your car "awesome handling" just by changing one gear ratio? That's some trick.

    Close the tuning forums. We don't need them anymore.
     
  19. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    So you are claiming to have somehow improved every aspect of a cars handling, balance, acceleration and speed with a single tweak to a single gear ratio.

    I will be rather blunt about this. I don't believe you. The only effect changing the sixth gear ratio will have is in regard to the in gear speed and acceleration for that gear. It can't and will not have any influence on a cars handling or balance at all, nor will it effect speed or acceleration in any other gear that sixth.

    Please don't post up nonsense and certainly don't post up opinion as fact.


    Scaff
     
  20. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    Dude, that isn't nonsense. Believe it or not, the Impreza had bad handling before I tweaked it! So that's what I meant by my theory.
     
  21. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Then explain to me exactly how changing a single gear ratio can have an effect on the handling of a car!

    What you are claiming is something that no one else on this site has ever reported before, including those of us who have been tuning cars with the GT series since its launch (and that would include me).

    Define exactly what the handling issues you were having before were and how trhey are after your magic 'tweak', try and explain what effect this tweak has had to make these improvements.

    Changing a single gear ratio can not have the effect you have described, but I'm game for a challenge. I have GT still so post up the exact car details, along with all the settings and the before and after 6th gear ratio and I will give it a go.

    Scaff
     
  22. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    <scratches head> well, I guess I can't explain it that well. After all, I'm not much of a mechanic in Gran Turismo. I just found out about the positive (and negative) effects of altering gears last night.
     
  23. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    So in other words you claim to have stuimbled across a magic tweak that people who have spent hundereds of hours tuning in GT, and who have an in-depth knowledge and understanding of how it relates to real world tuning have failed to find.

    On top of that your in-depth testing of this is the result of one nights worth of work. I'm sorry but it is far more likely that you carried out the change and the second time you drove the car you took a different line, had a different braking point, different gear for the corner, etc and that was the cause of the change in feel to the car than the gear ratio change.

    Unless every lap when testing is driven consistently you will get false results when tuning, now unless you are going to post up your settings and soem slightly more detailed information so that your claims can be checked and reviewed by others, then the have no place here at all.

    Scaff
     
  24. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    Ok, thanks for telling me that.
     
  25. SportWagon

    SportWagon Premium

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    gtmaster08, I'm not sure how old you are. But I think you should spend some time reading a book or two about the mechanical principles of cars. Then you would have more complete theory to apply to your experimental tweaks.
     
  26. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    I'm 18. So I'm in the 12th grade. Also, I never took Auto Tech 1 or 2!
     
  27. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    Your driving skills improved, that's all. Not because of the gear ratio. Or you're imagining it.
     
  28. gtmaster08

    gtmaster08

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    You really think I have gotten better?:O Well thanks for the kind words!:) After all, I thought that the gear ratios could affect my car's handling and ultimately make cornering easier!
     
  29. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

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    I thought this thread was going to be about Robert Smith.

    I'd better put down the red mod-phone, then.
     
  30. Parnelli Bone

    Parnelli Bone Premium

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    Yes..GT1 has the best charts for gearing and horsepower/torque plots. Better than gT4 by far. Not sure how GT5 will look though.

    I never understood why GT1 has the best looking charts. I've always theorized its' because the game designers didn't think anyone cared about hard-core technical data like we do as we discuss this, so they slacked off on making the graphs better in later GT's. :grumpy:

    Pupik: :lol: