The Decade in Racing (2001-2010)

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I usually try to do a "Year in Racing" post. Well, this one involves the DECADE in racing. The good, the bad, and the ugly of the past 10 years is what's on tap. Anyone care to look back on this past decade of racing?
 
Good topic idea:

The good:

Two new British Formula 1 world champions (Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button)

The revival of the British Touring Car Championship after the Super Touring era.

Sportscar racing gradually revived with Peugeout now giving Audi a run for their money. Also and increase in class and depth in Endurance GT racing.

NASCAR in 2010 and onwards. More good drivers, plenty of competition despite Jimmie Johnson's dominance.

And of course motor-sport became safer than ever before.


The Bad:

Ferrari team-orders in F1. Their attempts to bend the rules blatantly in Austria 2002 was an abuse of power.

US Grand Prix 2005. Michelin tyres start falling apart, so they can't race, cue the biggest farce in F1 history. 6 starters, all on Bridgestones.

World Rallying's decline. From an amazing shoot-out in 2003 in Rally GB, and six manufacturars, to just the two left, Citroen and Ford. Lets hope the new 2011 reg's encourage them back.

NASCAR's decision to bring in a wing instead of a spoiler. When Carl Edwards started heading towards the stands at Talladega, some-one must have realised they had made a mistake.

Stephen Ratel's re-organization of GT racing, or more specifically, GT1. Why have all the categories seperate? Only two hour events? Where's the challenge for sportscar's reliabilty? It's now like bumper cars, and to be honest I have given up watching it.


The Ugly:

The constant scandals and fighting at the FIA under Max Mosley - thankfully Jean Todt is levelling the ship.

Although Motorsport is safer than ever, the danger still exists of course. But even then, it is of course sad to see people injured seriously, and unfortunatly fatalaties still occur. A reminder was Felipe Massa's Hungary F1 accident. He cheated death, which had sadly claimed F2 racer Henry Surtees a week before at Brands Hatch.

Finally, I have reservation's about the state of rallying, but if the IRC and WRC could merge... the glory days would return.


That's my lot for now.
 
The good:

Porsche 911 GT3-R Hybrid
Sebastian Vettel becomes World champion.
The 2010 Formula 1 Season in General.
Ken Block enters the WRC.
Jimmie Johnson wins the NASCAR Sprint Cup for the 5th time in a row.
Schumacher returning to F1.
Lewis Hamilton becomes the 2008 F1 Champion.

The Bad:

Deaths of many well-known drivers, such as Dale Sr., Scott Kalitta, and Tom Walkinshaw.
Jimmie Johnson wins the NASCAR Sprint Cup for the 5th time in a row. (gets old after a while)
As stated above, the decline of the WRC.
The World economic crisis' extreme effect on all motorsport.
The current state of the Nurburgring.
The Stig incident.

That's all I've got for now.
 
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My good and bads:

Good

Formula 1

Highest quality grid of drivers ever.
Margins between teams become even closer.
Widest range of Grand Prix in different countries ever.
UK coverage switches to BBC, who promptly remove James "The 🤬" Allen from our commentary.
Return of "The Chain" as intro music on the BBC.
Several very close season finales, with multiple drivers being in contention for the title.
Jenson Button and the BrawnGP story.
McLaren 2007.
Jarno Trulli's 2004 season.
Ralf "Third best driver" Schumacher retires.
Giancarlo Fisichella, on one of those days.
Sebastien Vettel's debut, first pole and first win.

Touring Cars
BTCC, quality of racing stays high, despite the decline in grid numbers and quality of drivers.
WTCC returns.
No dominant driver or team combinations, or at least nothing as bad as Rossi, Schumacher, Kristensen and Loeb. Priaulx comes close in WTCC.
James Thompson in a Lada.
Alex Zanardi's return to racing.

Rally
Several new countries.
TV coverage improves nearer the end of the decade.

GT/Le Mans
Manufacturer support stays strong throughout.
Quality of drivers continues at a similar standard as before.
No visible decline, though several national series achieve varying degrees of success.
Great new series towards the end of the decade (GT1 WC) and vastly improved TV coverage.
Close battles for LMP2, GT1 and GT2 throughout.
Prodrive/Aston Martin's return to GT and later debut in LMP1.
Peugeot's return to Le Mans.
Bentley's (albeit gifted) victory.

Bad

Formula 1

Domination of Schumacher and Ferrari.
End of the independent era, start of the manufacturer era.
End of V10 era.
The mismanagement of Jaguar.
The end of Arrows, Minardi, Jordan and Prost.
Austra 2002.
Indianapolis 2005.
Singapore 2008.
Max Mosley.
Juan Pablo Montoya's departure.
Kimi Raikkonen's decline and departure.
Jacques Villenueve's departure.
Luca Badoer's sad and embarrasing return.
Murray Walker retires.
James Allen commentates for ITV F1 in the UK.
Williams' decline.
Toyota's budget to success ratio.

Touring Cars

Decline of both national and international series, in drivers, teams and manufacturers.
Race quality in WTCC reaches a low point.

Rally
Domination of Sebastien Loeb and Citroen.
Epic decline of everything in the WRC. They really messed it up.
North One management.
Deaths of Colin McRae and Richard Burns.

GT/Le Mans
Domination of Audi and Tom Kristensen.
ACO's mis-handling of the regulations regarding diesels vs. petrols.
Pescarolo Sport goes bust.
GT1 rapidly declines after a high of success.

Thats all I can think of right now off the top of my head.
 
My good and bads:

Good

Formula 1

Highest quality grid of drivers ever.
Margins between teams become even closer.
Widest range of Grand Prix in different countries ever.
UK coverage switches to BBC, who promptly remove James "The 🤬" Allen from our commentary.
Return of "The Chain" as intro music on the BBC.
Several very close season finales, with multiple drivers being in contention for the title.
Jenson Button and the BrawnGP story.
McLaren 2007.
Jarno Trulli's 2004 season.
Ralf "Third best driver" Schumacher retires.
Giancarlo Fisichella, on one of those days.
Sebastien Vettel's debut, first pole and first win.

Touring Cars
BTCC, quality of racing stays high, despite the decline in grid numbers and quality of drivers.
WTCC returns.
No dominant driver or team combinations, or at least nothing as bad as Rossi, Schumacher, Kristensen and Loeb. Priaulx comes close in WTCC.
James Thompson in a Lada.
Alex Zanardi's return to racing.

Rally
Several new countries.
TV coverage improves nearer the end of the decade.

GT/Le Mans
Manufacturer support stays strong throughout.
Quality of drivers continues at a similar standard as before.
No visible decline, though several national series achieve varying degrees of success.
Great new series towards the end of the decade (GT1 WC) and vastly improved TV coverage.
Close battles for LMP2, GT1 and GT2 throughout.
Prodrive/Aston Martin's return to GT and later debut in LMP1.
Peugeot's return to Le Mans.
Bentley's (albeit gifted) victory.

Bad

Formula 1

Domination of Schumacher and Ferrari.
End of the independent era, start of the manufacturer era.
End of V10 era.
The mismanagement of Jaguar.
The end of Arrows, Minardi, Jordan and Prost.
Austra 2002.
Indianapolis 2005.
Singapore 2008.
Max Mosley.
Juan Pablo Montoya's departure.
Kimi Raikkonen's decline and departure.
Jacques Villenueve's departure.
Luca Badoer's sad and embarrasing return.
Murray Walker retires.
James Allen commentates for ITV F1 in the UK.
Williams' decline.
Toyota's budget to success ratio.

Touring Cars

Decline of both national and international series, in drivers, teams and manufacturers.
Race quality in WTCC reaches a low point.

Rally
Domination of Sebastien Loeb and Citroen.
Epic decline of everything in the WRC. They really messed it up.
North One management.
Deaths of Colin McRae and Richard Burns.

GT/Le Mans
Domination of Audi and Tom Kristensen.
ACO's mis-handling of the regulations regarding diesels vs. petrols.
Pescarolo Sport goes bust.
GT1 rapidly declines after a high of success.

Thats all I can think of right now off the top of my head.

I think the BTCC driver quality is higher than it has been for many years. Plato and Neal have some good competition in the likes of Shedden, Chilton, Onslow-Cole... It seems a long way away from 2005 I think it was when twelve cars lined up at Donington...

And as for the bad with F1, you missed Hockenheim 2010 and the ugly full-scale return of team orders.

"Fernando is faster than you, do you understand?"
 
BTCC is no where near the dizzy heights it had at the end of the 1990s. Go watch any race from 1998 or 1999 and then check the same driver names today, almost all are touring car legends who are doing very well for themselves in other series and categories.
I really can't put more than a third of the current grid at the same level as Rydell, Tarquini, Menu, Muller, etc etc.

Plato and Neal come from the 90s era anyway, and only serve to prove the point as they far and away best of the field. Shedden is fast but not consistent at all. Chilton is also inconsistent and Onslow-Cole has yet to prove himself as best of the best. I rate Steven Kane, Mat Jackson and Paul O'Neill over those three, they are in my opinion the best we have of the new crowd who could put up a good fight with the oldies.

Hockenheim 2010 is overblown, really a non-event and not worthy of mention at all. I would actually put it under "good" because we finally got rid of the stupid stigma of "no team orders".
 
BTCC is no where near the dizzy heights it had at the end of the 1990s. Go watch any race from 1998 or 1999 and then check the same driver names today, almost all are touring car legends who are doing very well for themselves in other series and categories.
I really can't put more than a third of the current grid at the same level as Rydell, Tarquini, Menu, Muller, etc etc.

Plato and Neal come from the 90s era anyway, and only serve to prove the point as they far and away best of the field. Shedden is fast but not consistent at all. Chilton is also inconsistent and Onslow-Cole has yet to prove himself as best of the best. I rate Steven Kane, Mat Jackson and Paul O'Neill over those three, they are in my opinion the best we have of the new crowd who could put up a good fight with the oldies.

Hockenheim 2010 is overblown, really a non-event and not worthy of mention at all. I would actually put it under "good" because we finally got rid of the stupid stigma of "no team orders".

I agree. O'Neil has worked wonders with an old, but the standard is still very high, though not quite comparable to Super Touring... If in 2011 Turkington and Fabrizio get rides back it could be a classic.

Also I'm going to agree with you on the ACO's treatment of trying to equalise the cars at Le Mans. It hasn't worked and as a result it is really two classes in LMP1 - diesel and petrol.
 
And I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with the idea of the best Formula one grid. The grids of the mid to late 80's were in my opinion the best. How can any grid without the names of Senna, Prost, Lauda be considered the best?
 
Maybe not the best grid, but certainly the most competitive.

Speaking of which, a certain M.Schumacher's comeback is probably one of the lows of the decade. When he didn't have the speed - he just tried bending the rules (again). Ask Barrichello at Hungary...
 
The first thing that sprang to mind was the bad of the very first F1 race of the decade - the most recent death in F1, of Graham Beveridge, a marshal in the Australian GP. The debut of Mark Webber the following year - scoring points on his debut for Minardi - was a definate good.

Alex Zanardi's near-fatal accident - bad. Alex Zanardi winning on multiple occasions in the WTCC - good.
 
RANDOM GOOD COMMENTS:
* Perhaps my favorite moment of this past decade was when Tom Kristensen surpassed Jacky Ickx for most all-time outright wins at Le Mans. It wasn't just getting #7 in 2005, but HOW he's done it. His winning percentage will surely be tough to top. I think he won Le Mans 7 out of 9 or 7 out of 10 times.

* Also, let's not forget the only non-VW/Audi make to win Le Mans this past decade- Peugeot. Their first Le Mans outright victory since their triumphs in the early 1990s.

* Another great moment- NASCAR in the rain at Circuit de Gilles Villeneuve. I thought NASCAR did a pretty damn good job racing in the rain. I was glad rain tires were actually utilized rather than just be left there to rot. They can still use some work helping NASCAR better take on rain conditions on road courses, but I thought they did a very good job.

* I think Toyota's arrival into NASCAR in the three major series is a good deal because it offered some diversion. Toyota is more than credible in the Trucks more so than in Nationwide or Cup. Toyota had been no stranger to NASCAR because I remember a stock car version of the old Celica GT-Four back in the late 1990s.

* Two words- Danica Patrick. She arrived and really became fun to watch. I've always loved watching Danica race. I think she'll find her stride in NASCAR and perhaps even be a consistent contender to win. Her performance at the 2005 Indy 500 really resonates for me. But more than ever- winning at Motegi. Danica did what I thought all along she would do- win a race. Maybe you can nit-pick that she hasn't yet won in the United States, but at least she won a race. My favorite race of hers that she didn't win was that great drive she had at Texas in 2010. Just up there and mixing it up almost all race long.

* Then too, I'm pleased not only for Danica, but also for more women racing. I'm probably one of few guys to be so pleased to see many more women race. Maybe one of the best moments was when there was that all-female driver lineup at Le Mans 2010 for the #61(?) Matech Ford GT. Too bad their effort was halted due to a fire or a serious crash.

* The return of Trans-Am is definitely a highlight. I LOVE Trans-Am and was glad to see this series return. By the way... the 2011 season of Trans-Am begins sometime in May.

* One last GOOD moment from the past decade- Greg Murphy's epic lap around Bathurst in 2003(?).


The WORST moments-
* all the deaths. Three deaths stun me the most- Dale Earnhardt Sr. (10th anniversary coming up in this year's Daytona 500), Colin McRae, and Peter Brock.

* I'd probably even add the Dakar Rally to this (as far as no longer racing from Paris into Dakar). It's still a tough rally raced in South America now. And yes- the US Grand Prix in 2005 was a farce. The thing I hated most, though, was how people were like, "hate the French." Like... is that the best you can do? I know some of us Americans had beef with the French in the mid-2000s, but this was clearly Michelin's fault for bringing a crap tire set to Indy.

* I don't usually take shots at Japanese cars and companies, but I'd have to nominate Honda and Toyota as failures in F1. For Honda's sake, it was really back-breaking when Braun GP went from Honda power to Mercedes-Benz power... and ended up winning a championship. Toyota just never hit its marks in F1. It wasn't until Fast Lane Daily's Leo Parente talked about how Toyota has been a world stage racing failure- competitive cars, but not enough in winning major races and championships.

* I love her, she's beautiful... but Milka Duno has been vastly disappointing in the IndyCar Series. Her biggest highlight has been that epic spat between the Venezuelan and Danica Patrick. I didn't know it was possible to be under probation for poor performance. It certainly is possible to be considered a moving chicane on the track.


I don't have any candidates for ugly... except maybe the V8 Supercar race around the narrow streets of Canberra. The best lighthearted moment was that "control tire" that came off of one car.


Those are some of my highlights and lowlights for 2010. Surely many more ideas may come in future posts.
 
And I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with the idea of the best Formula one grid. The grids of the mid to late 80's were in my opinion the best. How can any grid without the names of Senna, Prost, Lauda be considered the best?

Why are you sorry?

And I can say with some ease that Hamilton, Alonso, and Schumacher at the very least are equals of any other driver combination from any era.
But, I was actually referring to not just the quality of the drivers at the front, but the quality of the entire grid overall. We have never had it so good, the pay driver is now an experienced driver who may not have had amazing results, but he isn't some joke driver. Yamamoto, Badoer, etc are really no where near the lows we got in the 80s and 90s.
I'd be happy to say that Vettel, Button, Kubica, Barrichello, Trulli, Kovalainen, Webber, Massa, Raikkonen, Montoya, Heidfeld...etc are more than a match for drivers like Berger, Arnoux, Patrese, Laffitte, Warwick, Cheever, Watson, Mansell, Piquet, etc etc.

I think drivers today are more focused, fit and experienced than ever before. Don't let finishing positions fool you, it takes far more effort to finish 10th today than it did in 1988 or any other year. Qualifying is far closer than ever, the "worst" team is a professional outfit who also run a LMS team (albeit with budget/financial management issues). The "worst" drivers have many years experience in single seaters, far more than the "worst" of the past have had.

How can you not think we have the highest quality F1 grids ever? Rose-tinted glasses much?

* Two words- Danica Patrick. She arrived and really became fun to watch. I've always loved watching Danica race. I think she'll find her stride in NASCAR and perhaps even be a consistent contender to win. Her performance at the 2005 Indy 500 really resonates for me. But more than ever- winning at Motegi. Danica did what I thought all along she would do- win a race. Maybe you can nit-pick that she hasn't yet won in the United States, but at least she won a race. My favorite race of hers that she didn't win was that great drive she had at Texas in 2010. Just up there and mixing it up almost all race long.

* Then too, I'm pleased not only for Danica, but also for more women racing. I'm probably one of few guys to be so pleased to see many more women race. Maybe one of the best moments was when there was that all-female driver lineup at Le Mans 2010 for the #61(?) Matech Ford GT. Too bad their effort was halted due to a fire or a serious crash.


* I love her, she's beautiful... but Milka Duno has been vastly disappointing in the IndyCar Series. Her biggest highlight has been that epic spat between the Venezuelan and Danica Patrick. I didn't know it was possible to be under probation for poor performance. It certainly is possible to be considered a moving chicane on the track.


* I don't usually take shots at Japanese cars and companies, but I'd have to nominate Honda and Toyota as failures in F1. For Honda's sake, it was really back-breaking when Braun GP went from Honda power to Mercedes-Benz power... and ended up winning a championship. Toyota just never hit its marks in F1. It wasn't until Fast Lane Daily's Leo Parente talked about how Toyota has been a world stage racing failure- competitive cars, but not enough in winning major races and championships.

First of all - may I say that it is good to see people still pushing for women in motorsport and that, yes this decade has been a little better for providing opportunities. However, its really not been much to shout about is it really? Danica is by far the most over-rated driver I've read on the internet. Sure, she is decent, but I think women should try and aspire to be better than that. Just being "good" isn't going to change people's opinions, just like any new country to motorsport, women need their own Senna, Rossi, Schumacher or whatever.
I fear people are sometimes a little too praising of people like Danica, to the point where the fact she is a woman is elevating what are otherwise mediocre results. I feel I just need to point out that while Danica's (and other women this decade) results have been a nice thing to see, it should be considered just the same as anyone else's results. I don't think Danica should get better opportunities than say male drivers who have won championships. If she (or any other woman) is hired, it should be for results, not her sex if we really want to see motorsport change its stance. I've read far too many people saying she should be given far better chances simply to help the cause of women in motorsport, but I personally think its detrimental to glorify what is really a mediocre driver.
Anyway, Danica is good, not amazing, but good. Hopefully it points to signs of greater participation of women and therefore a greater chance they will find their "Senna".

Milka Duno is a shining example of pure marketing, no talent.

As for Japanese companies, this decade, I'd say yeah, they have kind of flopped. Unfortunately for them, its all due to the big increase in manufacturer interest and control in motorsport, which led to management boards taking decisions, rather than racing teams. For both Toyota and Honda in F1, their failure is rooted at their organisational structure and work practices. For Toyota, they took too much personal control away from TTE, and then firing anyone who dared suggest different, more European methods (Mike Gascoyne). For Honda, again, too much personal control, not allowing the race team to make the decisions and forcing a complete aero design novice onto the team.
For Japanese companies to return to the top, they really need to either alter their way of work or allow the European teams they purchase to do their jobs like they did in the 90s. That or simply just return to engine supply.
That said, mismangement of race teams and meddling by manufacturers is not solely a charateristic of Japanese companies, as Ford and BMW also messed up. Its just it appears the criticism is far more directed at the organisational structure, rather than any particular people taking decisions or particular mangement decisions. It was always going to become a problem once those companies started taking a greater interest and control in the decision process, whereas Ford and BMW's greater influcence on the race teams could have led to victory (and BMW almost had it right).
You may say that had Honda not quit for 2009, they would have been successful, but by 2008, they had already stopped meddling with the team, finally letting Ross Brawn make the decisions and sort the team out. Perhaps Honda at least recognised that it didn't need to meddle so much, perhaps they would have meddled again in 2009. Sadly for Honda, it didn't succeed, but it was close. Toyota never showed signs of sorting out their management issues.
 
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bad: bernie ecclestone and max mosley
everything to do with british motorsport (btcc ect)
everyone bar 2 manufacturers leave wrc
ken block enters wrc
loeb dominates wrc

ugly: colin mcrae's death
 
Agreed on Duno. She's a mobile chicane and actually got told to drive faster or lose your license by the IRL... must be the Venuezuealan Oil Money slowing her down...

Since when did Trans-Am even disappear? I missed that one.

And for good, bad, and ugly - the birth, rise and demise of A1GP.
 
Oh yeah. Thanks! Forgot all about including the A1GP. Of course, everything was off the top of my head anyways. COMPLETELY forgot. That was a great concept with some wonderful racing. Just too bad it didn't last too long.
 
A1GP was a flawed idea from the start, the organisers seemed to forget how motorsports have made money since 1968. Preventing sponsorship liveries due to national flags for the cars killed the series before it even started.
I also didn't think we needed yet another spec-series that "competed" with F1, yet again missing what makes F1 great and focusing on "driver skills". :rolleyes:
 
Preventing sponsorship liveries due to national flags for the cars killed the series before it even started.
The irony is that a solution was simple - designate a certain percentage of car space that had to be given over to a national flag. Like, for example, the engine cowling or the sidepods. Large enough so that a flag can be clearly visible and distinguishable on each car, but with plenty more space left over for sponsor decals on the rest of the car.
 
Good:
- Me getting into motorsports, prior to 2003 I wasn't really into watching racing.
- NASCAR visiting more road courses(even if it is just the Nationwide series)
- Indycar and Champcar re-uniting ending one of the stupidest feuds ever.
- Ashley Force Hood proving that women can be competitive against the top drivers.
-Indycar returning to semi-relevance
-Introduction of the new Nationwide car
- The 2010 F1 points battle

Bad:
- Drivers dominating. Michael Schumacher(F1), Tony Schumacher(NHRA Top Fuel), Jimmie Johnson(Sprint Cup) and Sebastian Loeb(WRC) among others all won at least 3 consecutive titles.
- NASCAR introducing the chase and COT.
- Scandals in F1(no, not just Ferrari, there were plenty of others).
- Milka Duno(need I say more?)

Ugly:
- The death of some of the top drivers: Dale Earnhardt, Colin McRae, Scott Kalitta among others

bad:
ken block enters wrc

How is that a bad thing?
 
NASCAR's decision to bring in a wing instead of a spoiler. When Carl Edwards started heading towards the stands at Talladega, some-one must have realised they had made a mistake.
No.

If Ryan Newman wasn't there Edwards' car woulda hit the fence with the rear of the car.

Notice the car is already coming back down towards the ground when he gets hit by Newman.
 
I also didn't think we needed yet another spec-series that "competed" with F1, yet again missing what makes F1 great and focusing on "driver skills". :rolleyes:

What is it you feel that makes F1 great?

A1GP at least had identity, I'd take it over most of the other open-wheel series under F1, it had it's own identity and focused on something which F1 seems to have lost in courtroom battles, scandals, and massive amounts of money being shuffled from large faceless investment corporations to large badly run international banks... and that was an entertainment factor.

It tried to be entertaining ... the race format (sprint & feature), push to pass, the fact the most people could automatically switch over to it and cheer for someone (their country), which was a great idea, how many people become football, rugby or cricket fans, just when England are playing?

And also, because of hugely different skill levels, there was some entertaining racing too.

GP2, F2, whatever they are now, FBMW, FPA, Formula Renault... are dull as death...

I'm not much of a fan of F1 these days, it's loosing what I liked about it in the first place, the sense of it being the pinnacle, the ultimate form of race car... these days, they are fast, but we all know they could be alot faster...
... that, and the pointless, endless politics and the fact it is now just a thin veneer of a sport, wrapped around a money making machine.

..and also PAY drivers? Your ticket to driving the "best of the best" is just how much money you can bring? It's a joke, an utter joke.

.. grrr, it makes me mad..

/rant...
 
What makes F1 great is that it accepts that its a team sport and doesn't pretend that its all about driver skill. A1GP and other spec series attempt to convince everyone that because everyone has supposedly the same car, they are given a fair chance. Its not at all the case. Firstly, obviously everyone has different mechanics still and in some series, different teams - which can vary in ability themselves. Secondly, it ignores the fact that some drivers will prefer certain handling charateristics over others, so the although the car is the same for all, it will favour some driver's styles over others. This is why you see people like Kobayashi surprise in different series.
Also, A1GP was supposedly meant to compete with F1....not with GP2 or lower series. In the end, it was a little like Superleague Formula or Indycar is today...just another open-wheel series that doesn't really compete with F1 but it isn't a feeder/junior category.

I also don't see why A1GP was great because it promoted nationalistic ideals. I prefer the more character-led ideal of F1, where teams generally hire drivers based on talent not where they were born.
I like how you criticise F1 for being too much about politics and marketing and then suggest A1GP is better because it panders to the typical casual viewer just to watch "Great Britain". What does any of that have to do with the racing?

Pay drivers are in all motorsports, get over it. The term is over-used these days in a negative sense, today's "pay drivers" are far more qualified and skilled individuals than they were when that term was coined by the press.

I don't think GP2, etc are dull, but I don't see what it has to do with A1GP (or the criticisms I have made of it - none of which were about how interesting it was to watch)...
 
A1 was a politics-free show, equal equipment, great sounding-cars, clsoe racing and overtaking, and attracted big crowds. As for Allmendinger's flip, the spoiler was pushing the car back down.

Also - no-one seems to cpmplain about Superleague Formula which is a similar concept. Thing is open-wheel racing has become crowded lately, with GP3, F2, Formula Master, all adding to what is an already crowded ladder. A1 earned it's place because it was something different. The decline of F3 worries me though.
 
What makes F1 great is that it accepts that its a team sport and doesn't pretend that its all about driver skill. A1GP and other spec series attempt to convince everyone that because everyone has supposedly the same car, they are given a fair chance. Its not at all the case. Firstly, obviously everyone has different mechanics still and in some series, different teams - which can vary in ability themselves. Secondly, it ignores the fact that some drivers will prefer certain handling charateristics over others, so the although the car is the same for all, it will favour some driver's styles over others. This is why you see people like Kobayashi surprise in different series.
Also, A1GP was supposedly meant to compete with F1....not with GP2 or lower series. In the end, it was a little like Superleague Formula or Indycar is today...just another open-wheel series that doesn't really compete with F1 but it isn't a feeder/junior category.

I also don't see why A1GP was great because it promoted nationalistic ideals. I prefer the more character-led ideal of F1, where teams generally hire drivers based on talent not where they were born.
I like how you criticise F1 for being too much about politics and marketing and then suggest A1GP is better because it panders to the typical casual viewer just to watch "Great Britain". What does any of that have to do with the racing?

Pay drivers are in all motorsports, get over it. The term is over-used these days in a negative sense, today's "pay drivers" are far more qualified and skilled individuals than they were when that term was coined by the press.

I don't think GP2, etc are dull, but I don't see what it has to do with A1GP (or the criticisms I have made of it - none of which were about how interesting it was to watch)...

I broadly agree with you sentiments on this one apart from the two bolded points.

First point. If a driver can''t adapt to a car or change the settings to get it working how he wants it then how good could he possibly be anyway?

Second point. Different drivers peak at different levels. I've lost count of the number of drivers who have looked great in lower formula and then run out of talent higher up and there are plenty of drivers that under perform in lower formula for all sorts of reasons and then get good when they hit the higher formula.
 
True, some drivers peak too early and others don't shine till late on. But regardless how good a driver is at adapting, if he has to adapt to something he doesn't like in the car, is he not at a disadvantage already against someone who doesn't have to adapt at all? What if two drivers are really good at adapting, but prefer opposite ends of car charateristic? And personally, I don't consider drivers who don't adapt so well to other setups as bad drivers, its just that being able to adapt is a good skill to have and usually (but not always) a trait of the greatest drivers.
The point is, simply giving the same spec car to everyone doesn't make it all fair and square and doesn't always give an accurate measure of talent. Its just not that simple and at least with F1 (and WRC, etc), where people realise the teams do have a large influence, people generally accept its not just driver skill.
 
What makes F1 great is that it accepts that its a team sport and doesn't pretend that its all about driver skill. A1GP and other spec series attempt to convince everyone that because everyone has supposedly the same car, they are given a fair chance. Its not at all the case. Firstly, obviously everyone has different mechanics still and in some series, different teams - which can vary in ability themselves. Secondly, it ignores the fact that some drivers will prefer certain handling charateristics over others, so the although the car is the same for all, it will favour some driver's styles over others. This is why you see people like Kobayashi surprise in different series.
Also, A1GP was supposedly meant to compete with F1....not with GP2 or lower series. In the end, it was a little like Superleague Formula or Indycar is today...just another open-wheel series that doesn't really compete with F1 but it isn't a feeder/junior category.

I also don't see why A1GP was great because it promoted nationalistic ideals. I prefer the more character-led ideal of F1, where teams generally hire drivers based on talent not where they were born.
I like how you criticise F1 for being too much about politics and marketing and then suggest A1GP is better because it panders to the typical casual viewer just to watch "Great Britain". What does any of that have to do with the racing?

Pay drivers are in all motorsports, get over it. The term is over-used these days in a negative sense, today's "pay drivers" are far more qualified and skilled individuals than they were when that term was coined by the press.

I don't think GP2, etc are dull, but I don't see what it has to do with A1GP (or the criticisms I have made of it - none of which were about how interesting it was to watch)...

No,, A1 GP was scheduled over the winter months to avoid clashes with F1 and other formulae. It was only hit when GP2 Asia started.

As for the whole country ideal thing, it appeals to a wider audience. That's like asking why we should have Football, Rugby, or Cricket World Cups. Also, how come no-one criticises Superleague Formula for the same reason. Also A1 had some good drivers. Nico Hulkenberg - he got to F1. Guys like Nicolas Lapierre, Robbie Kerr, Alexandre Premat, Ralf Firman, they had no drives and that has enabled them to catch people's eyes - especially Hulkenberg.

Without turning this into the A1GP Debating topic, also I'd like to ask people what they can think of the state of rallying at the moment?
 
A series that calls itself the "World Cup of Motorsports" is clearly attempting to compete with F1 and the series' boss admitted so quite proudly if I remember right.
My problem with the whole nations is thing is that its so unnecessary - sure we have Football World Cups, etc, but motorsports has never had one and I don't see why we need one. I don't feel its missing from F1 and I'm not a huge fan of nationalism....or at least excessive nationalism which it will only encourage.
I think you will find Superleague Formula does get criticsed for its bizarre football connection. Its not very vocal criticism though because its not a widely talked about series and quite a lot of people still don't even know about it.

A1 did have great drivers, it had good racing, a good format and it was moderately successful. But, its downfall was because of its whole nations idea and preventing sponsors on the cars plus the fact it wasn't marketed terribly well. Something Superleague Formula also suffers from because people still haven't heard of it.
It would have been better if A1 had done like ludes said or just completely ditched the nations stuff. Why is a pay driver any worse than a "national driver"?

F1 for the most part does not stop people competing because of their nationality. McLaren have nothing to stop them hiring the best staff available, be it English, French, German..whoever. Not true for the Football World Cup. What's the big deal about where someone is born? Why should I care more about people who were born closer to me than other people?

And yes, to keep it a little bit more on topic, WRC is totally :censored:ed. Thanks North One! :grumpy:👎
The rest of rallying is ok, the national series are still going strong, IRC is going very well too. Just WRC has really been messed up of late, they have managed to mess up pretty much every aspect except the TV coverage.
 
Good topic idea:

The good:

Two new British Formula 1 world champions (Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button)

I fail to see the relevance of them being British...

Since 2005, there have been 5 new world champions crowned.

I just don't see what nationality has to do with anything... As a matter of fact, I think it's shallow that in this day and age, people get more enjoyment seeing someone from their own country succeed... Say for example, Jenson was French. Would that have made the brawn story any less compelling? My two cents.

This coming from a scot who started watching f1 in 1990 (was so young then, I didn't really know what was going on) who was a loyal schumacher fan from the age of five. I was born in scotland. That doesn't mean I should always support scotland over anyone else. In every category and every sport, I always find myself compelled to cheer someone on. My decision is not influenced by what country someone was born in as it is so irrelevant.

Joker-GTBR
Bad: the Tilkodromes galore in F1. How could anyone forget it?

They're not all bad. Sepang stands out as the best imo. Or turkey.

Did anyone get to see the Motorland Aragon motogp race (or any other race from aragon)? That place looks very interesting... I believe it's another Tilke track. One of his better ones IMO. Shanghai's not too bad either. Neither is Bahrain (the "old" layout f1's reverting to in 2011).

Thinking about it, some of Tilke's track's aren't bad, although they are a little Samey. For obvious reason's, we want more tracks like Spa, Zandvoort, Suzuka, Mont tremblant, Ostereichring and "old" hockenheim... It's difficult to say, but those days may be over. Unless there's a major reshuffle within the FIA, FOM etc.

Ardius
A series that calls itself the "World Cup of Motorsports" is clearly attempting to compete with F1 and the series' boss admitted so quite proudly if I remember right.

The thing that always bugged me about that is that the World cup is the pinnacle of Football. So the tagline annoyed me, as A1 was clearly not the pinnacle of motorsports.

Ardius
Something Superleague Formula also suffers from because people still haven't heard of it.

At least Superleague managed it's own pc game... Never played it though, so I don't know if it's any good.

Ardius
What's the big deal about where someone is born? Why should I care more about people who were born closer to me than other people?
+1.
 

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