The definitive GT5 transmission tuning guide.

[articzap]

So what's the race? Point 2 Point, track marker on replay?

Typical tunnel drag.

 

[Adrenaline]

Typical tunnel drag.

I have a really dumb question, that really isn't that dumb at all.

What is the 'typical tunnel drag'?

Yesterday was the first time I've played around with drag racing (in GT5 anyways). I Went to SS7 just to play around with some testing out of curiosity after reading this thread. Anywho, is the 'typical' mean you start at one end of the tunnel and the exit of the tunnel is the finish? Which way do you go?
I was using an entire straight away to just see the ultimate top speed I could get in my Z.

So, let me know what the 'official' start & finish are for online, so I can play around.

Also, for you drag racers, how(if) do you heat the tires before you start?

In offline practice, My first 2 launches bog down like crazy, but my 3rd one bounces off the limiter. No happy medium that I've found so far. I spent most of my time just trying to tune 1st gear for the launch.

Since I assume you'll never know how long it takes to line up, you want to focus your launch tuning, for completely cold tires?

Online, is tire wear on or off?

 

[TT3AZ]

I have a really dumb question, that really isn't that dumb at all.

What is the 'typical tunnel drag'?

Yesterday was the first time I've played around with drag racing (in GT5 anyways). I Went to SS7 just to play around with some testing out of curiosity after reading this thread. Anywho, is the 'typical' mean you start at one end of the tunnel and the exit of the tunnel is the finish? Which way do you go?
I was using an entire straight away to just see the ultimate top speed I could get in my Z.

So, let me know what the 'official' start & finish are for online, so I can play around.

Also, for you drag racers, how(if) do you heat the tires before you start?

In offline practice, My first 2 launches bog down like crazy, but my 3rd one bounces off the limiter. No happy medium that I've found so far. I spent most of my time just trying to tune 1st gear for the launch.

Since I assume you'll never know how long it takes to line up, you want to focus your launch tuning, for completely cold tires?

Online, is tire wear on or off?

I play with tire wear off, since your goal is maximum grip, not reduced grip. Warming your tires doesnt help that much, the most important thing if you want to jump of the line, is suspension. You want as much weight as posible to transfer to the rear wheels while launching. Then you can try to play with your gears. Read the entire thread, and you get some good examples.

Depending on how good traction the car has from "factory", you can determine how long your first gear should be. To short = to much output torque to the wheels = wheelspin. To long = less outpout torque = slow acceleration.

We usually start in the beggining of the tunnel, where the colour shifts from dark grey to light grey on the road, and the exit is when the tunnel is gone. Just look at some drag racing and you will see where people start and stop.

 

[TT3AZ]

That picture makes me laugh. How can first gear create more power and torque then any gear above it?

Maybe you haven't been around a dyno to see the results for yourself.

Huh, first gear always generate more output torque to the wheels. You wont accelerate as fast in 2nd or 3rd gear, as in 1st gear, thats because the torque transfered to the wheels is less, due to the transmission. Look at my chart, and you see good examples, where shortening your gears (higher number) will give you faster acceleration (in my case).

Second, this so called drag racing, is a little more complex than just the transmisson. Even if you have the same car and same settings, the performance can differ a bit, depending on how many miles tha car has put down. Second, how will you launch? Will you launch by telling the time, which can result in jumping, late launch etc? Or will you be using a "tree", where the reaction time matters.

If you really want to prove which setup is better, you need to race like 10 or 20 times back and forth, to make a conclusion which setup is better.

In most cases, you can encounter the same results, even if the tuning differs slightly. Why? Well, thats because its the whole picture that matters when it comes to gearing. I doubt you will see any revolutionary results, and if you do, something is wrong. Feel free to tell me the cars you are´using, the parts you are going to use, and HP.

Third, i really doubt you can gear tune a car in 20 minutes. As far as i know if you want to be fast, and have a setup that blows all the competitors away, you need to spend atleas 20 hours. Why? Well, to se which gear ratio that gives you the most output torque to wheels, while balancing the other gears aswell, you need to do mathematics and stuff. This numbers you cant see by testing the car alone. Gear tuning, is about practical and theoretical work. If you dont have anything to compare with, how do you know? As far as i know, we havent come to a conslution which technic to use, since the torque/HP curve differs for the cars. While my examples maybe work for the supra, the same thing doesnt work for the camaro z28, where the torque peak at 3400rpm, and hp like 5000??

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Dear aGrenadeShark

DIAF

Signed,

Diablo

 

[articzap]

Third, i really doubt you can gear tune a car in 20 minutes. As far as i know if you want to be fast, and have a setup that blows all the competitors away, you need to spend atleas 20 hours. Why? Well, to se which gear ratio that gives you the most output torque to wheels, while balancing the other gears aswell, you need to do mathematics and stuff. This numbers you cant see by testing the car alone. Gear tuning, is about practical and theoretical work. If you dont have anything to compare with, how do you know? As far as i know, we havent come to a conslution which technic to use, since the torque/HP curve differs for the cars. While my examples maybe work for the supra, the same thing doesnt work for the camaro z28, where the torque peak at 3400rpm, and hp like 5000??

I have a homemade excel sheet that figures out the gears for me. A few user inputs on my end, and then just some very fine tweaking. I can have ideal ratios in 20 minutes. Only testing I need to do is to get the final drive and first gear setup accordingly.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

I dont get it. I picked up the game yesterday, I buy a used car to save some denero only to find out used cars don't get a in-car view (crummy) So I save up and buy myself a WRX STi. I'm using the close ratio gear box while I build up the car.

Then I find GTP and this thread and begin to reuse the value in a tuned gear box to give you that extra edge

I go and drop the cash for a (what is called by the game) "Fully Tunable Transmission" Only to find I cant adjust anything but the top speed.

So I look through and don't see the "How to activate gear tuning" thread. Do I need to complete the license test? Cause I skipped right over them to get right into all that is GT.

Thanks I'd love to try some of these methods against the way I used to do it in GT4, but they are hard to follow, is there a shorter explanation, just on steps to take to tune without the long explinTion?

Thanks! No_OB

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Dear aGrenadeShark

DIAF

Signed,

Diablo

Damn, that's messed up.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I too can get my ratios done in about 20 minutes... Or less. It's a case of finding the overall 1st I want, the overall top gear I want, followed by finding a way to get both in the same ratio set... From there I break out a calculator and get my spacing set as needed by the car's powerband.

Most of my 535pp circuit tuned AWDs tend to bog like hell on launch because the initial launch doesn't matter as much as the 5-7 full laps after it on a circuit though...

 

[No_OBsT33R]

I'm having a hard time reading anything from GT's dyne graph other than peak tq & peak hp to be any use. I get a visual idea of what they look like but not clear enough to get as refined as some methods here suggest.

 

[grenadeshark]

This is a picture from the drive to win book by Carroll Smith. It shows an image of how the gearing calculator I posted earlier works. I am currently trying to recreate this, although it is a bit beyond my excel skills.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I dont get it. I picked up the game yesterday, I buy a used car to save some denero only to find out used cars don't get a in-car view (crummy) So I save up and buy myself a WRX STi. I'm using the close ratio gear box while I build up the car.

Then I find GTP and this thread and begin to reuse the value in a tuned gear box to give you that extra edge

I go and drop the cash for a (what is called by the game) "Fully Tunable Transmission" Only to find I cant adjust anything but the top speed.

So I look through and don't see the "How to activate gear tuning" thread. Do I need to complete the license test? Cause I skipped right over them to get right into all that is GT.

Thanks I'd love to try some of these methods against the way I used to do it in GT4, but they are hard to follow, is there a shorter explanation, just on steps to take to tune without the long explinTion?

Thanks! No_OB

Sounds like your game isn't updated. Get the latest version and you'll find a fair few new features and the ability to adjust individual gear ratios. 👍

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Sounds like your game isn't updated. Get the latest version and you'll find a fair few new features and the ability to adjust individual gear ratios. 👍

For-real... Crummy. I got no enet. Gonna have to bring it to a friends place, so basically I waisted that cash on a tranny I can't tune, wonderful.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Been trying to read that dyno sheet in the Tuner menu, but other than peek tq & hp, it's unclear, I have to make guesstimations.

 

[oppositelock]

That picture makes me laugh. How can first gear create more power and torque then any gear above it?

Maybe you haven't been around a dyno to see the results for yourself.

:facepalm:

 

[No_OBsT33R]

:facepalm:

I know this is funny.

Arti gears multiply power, first makes the most, last makes the least.

When you look at a dyno graph, the gear is factored in.

 

[grenadeshark]

I know this is funny.

Arti gears multiply power, first makes the most, last makes the least.

When you look at a dyno graph, the gear is factored in.

Gears don't multiply power...

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Gears don't multiply power...

Ugh yeah they do the torque is multiplied through the gears. Hp is only I figure representation of that power (torque) put to use over a period of time (rpm's)

 

[Rotary Junkie]

They multiply torque, yes...

But not power. By reducing the effective RPM, power stays the same while torque rises.

 

[bmw_e36m3]

How close are we to seeing your calculator?

 

[No_OBsT33R]

They multiply torque, yes...

But not power. By reducing the effective RPM, power stays the same while torque rises.

Torque is the power

Hp is a representation of the torque put to use.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Either way hp is directly related to torque, so if torque is multiplied then so is the hp.

Are you guys really arguing over how to tune gears yet not have a basic understanding of Hp and torque?

Hp = tq x rpm / 5252

If the tq in the equation is raised or multiplied through gears the hp is raised along with it.

The same goes for rpm. Since hp is a direct result of tq x rpm, changing the rpm changes the tq and that changes the hp reading.

They multiply torque, yes...

But not power. By reducing the effective RPM, power stays the same while torque rises.

Your confusing it being the same at a lower rpm in a (important part here) different gear (it's being multiplied by a different gear ratio) Argh everything in your post is wrong, like completely not even partially.

Is this a joke? Am I getting "Punked"?

 

[Nicktune]

The mass flow through the engine will stay the same at the same RPM...with whatever gearing you have...hp doesn't change. the only thing you can do now is multiply the twisting force.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

The mass flow through the engine will stay the same at the same RPM...with whatever gearing you have...hp doesn't change. the only thing you can do now is multiply the twisting force.

The hp is only a representative of TQ. Hp is nothing, it is just how you show the tq put to work....

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Hp = tq x rpm / 5252

500tq @ 5000rpm = 476hp

Tq 500 at 5000rpm x first gear 3.500 x FD 4.100 = tq multiplied 7175tq

Tq 7175tq x 5000 rpm / 5252 = 6830.7 hp multiplied

HP multiplied 68430.7hp / FD 4.100 / First gear 3.500 = 476hp

Anythings else?

 

[Adrenaline]

The hp is only a representative of TQ. Hp is nothing, it is just how you show the tq put to work....

I'm going to make this really... REALLY simple.
Find me 1 car, IN THE WORLD
That produces MORE POWER at the WHEELS than it does at the FLYWHEEL.

If the transmission 'multiplies' power, then this should be an easy task.

And for you tricksters... No multi-power-plants allowed.
Or other loop holes that I can't think of / don't know.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

I'm going to make this really... REALLY simple.
Find me 1 car, IN THE WORLD
That produces MORE POWER at the WHEELS than it does at the FLYWHEEL.

If the transmission 'multiplies' power, then this should be an easy task.

And for you tricksters... No multi-power-plants allowed.
Or other loop holes that I can't think of / don't know.

It's not about making more or less, it's the representative figure multiplied.

You see the transmission multiplies the power through the gears to a useable speed to spin the wheels, but takes power to operate, so the power multiplied through the transition has to account for a loss to operate however the final output is greater then the initial input none the less. Not as in higher figure but in power at a greater useable speed, engine speed vs speed at which to spin the wheels.

You only get the pre multiplied figure from a dyno because it divides the reading through the FD gearing and gear used, to get the un-multiplied hp at the engine.

500tq at 5000rpm making 476hp Will be putting down 7175ftlb at the wheel (but that's not how the "at the wheel" reading is made as that is de-multiplied to 500 - the power used to operate the tranny.) while putting out 500 at the flywheel.

So all of them buddy.

It seams some of you have only half an understanding, but representing an advanced level. It's not good to front.

But first gear at

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Holy nutjob math batman.

Keeping with your example of 500ft-lb @ 5000, 476hp @ 5000 it should be as follows:

500x3.5x4.1=7175ft-lb axle torque

(5000/3.5)/4.1 = 348.432 axle RPM

7175tq x 348.432rpm / 5252 = 476hp.

You've missed the fact that to multiply torque you divide operating RPM.

 

[No_OBsT33R]

Holy nutjob math batman.

Keeping with your example of 500ft-lb @ 5000, 476hp @ 5000 it should be as follows:

500x3.5x4.1=7175ft-lb axle torque

(5000/3.5)/4.1 = 348.432 axle RPM

7175tq x 348.432rpm / 5252 = 476hp.

You've missed the fact that to multiply torque you divide operating RPM.

Your post says nothing new at all, your just proving my point but wording it different ( "at the wheel" means going in the wheel from the drive axle. Or at the axel. Semantics.) and shown the same formulas I used at a different point (axl rpm vs flywheel rpm) to the exact same effect. It seams you think you have brought something new to the table, what is that exactly?.

Your showing what I already said except replacing "at the wheels" at axel.


Look I don't care how much you guys know, or don't know for that matter, it's all good.


I'm still trying to figure a useful way to use the IN GAME dyno, lots of precise info I need that is too unclear in the menu dyno.

 

[oppositelock]

I'm going to make this really... REALLY simple.
Find me 1 car, IN THE WORLD
That produces MORE POWER at the WHEELS than it does at the FLYWHEEL.

If the transmission 'multiplies' power, then this should be an easy task.

And for you tricksters... No multi-power-plants allowed.
Or other loop holes that I can't think of / don't know.

Here's an Integra Type R putting down around 1800 lb-ft in first gear. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question.