The DFP...Can it help you obtain a REAL drivers license?

[Velocity]

"Takin' it back to the old school , cos I'm an old fool who's so cool."

Whomp there it is?

 

[capnlarge]

Man, GT5 needs parallel parking.

 

[Jmac279]

+it taught me to draft to save gas on the highways .

Stop driving ... please ...

If you're getting close enough to actually get into the low pressure area behind the vehicle in front of you at highway speeds, you're just stupid ...

Odds are, you're not drafting, you're just needlessly endangering your life and the lives of others because you played a game and tried to apply it to real life ...

As far as GT4 helping you be a better driver, maybe on a race track ... Racing games are NOTHING like day-to-day driving in real life unless, of course, you drive recklessly like many people I know/have known ...

 

[gman07]

Man, GT5 needs parallel parking.

Believe it or not, I actually tried parallel parking in GT4.

However, while learning to drive, my driver's ed instructor informed us that brake lights turn white while backing up. Makes me feel extremely confident in the other information he's giving us...

I think GT4 is a totally different thing than real life. Sure, it can teach you a little about racing and improve your reaction time, but there is no substitute for real life experience.

 

[I6-4-eva]

If gran turismo had city streets,traffic lights,with traffic,pedistrians and all the other wonderful things and if i was a drivers ed teacher sure I think it would be helpful.

 

[arkos]

I remeber playing ridge racer once at a timezone in qld once in a real convertible car with a big flat screen in front, clutch and all. and that was like 10 years ago almost, and that was awesome, imagine that with gt4, if they could get a basic chassis and seats so you have the feel that you are in a car. And make it so theres screens on all windows front rear and sides. I have seen that done before also. That with some body roll. Then when u look at it like that, i think gt4 would help you alot in real life racing situations and maybe in genral driving situations too. Im sure all this could be done if you had the $$$$$ what yas think?

 

[Shafted]

Simply put, no.

Since there is no clutch, you can't learn clutch control which i'd say is the most important and aspect of driving.





Unless you're a wuss and you have an automatic

 

[mariniam]

It definately wont help you obtain the license but.... I remeber last year driving very fast down a twisty mountain road with S beds and I was imitanting my driving from GT3 (with DF). I took the S bends much faster than I normaly did and during a slightly stressful moment, when I hit the brakes too hard while entering a turn, I managed to save the car from loosing its back end just like I had learned to in GT3!

 

[hitman146]

come on really it cant help you drive there is no x o square or triangel button in a car

 

[Mooman117]

I drove a Formula Ford car round a track for the first time today. GT4 or any other driving game doesn't come anywhere near to preparing you for driving a race car IMHO. These are some of the differences that I noticed.

1. (as mentioned many times in this and other threads) no clutch. It might seem an obvious point, but in the car I drove there was no syncromesh meaning you really have to ram them into gear and be careful when reengaging the clutch plates.

2. H shaped gear box with no springs! It makes it much harder to get the gear you want.

3. Bumps. (even with a DFP) the feedback you get from driving about 2 inches from the floor goes through your whole body.

4. Sensitivity. You are alot more aware of the balance of the car as you can feel the cornering forces and the grip levels. In games all you get really is the slight change of viewing angles as the car starts to go side ways.

5. Steering. The car I drove was far more responsive than any game I've played. Also the sterring made the DFP feel like the easiest to turn wheel imaginable. I only did a few short stints of 10 laps but you could really feel your arms afterwards.

6. Pedal Travel. The accelerator had about 2 thirds the travel of a DFP whereas the brake could only be pressed down about 2cm and needed quite a bit of pressure. The brake and throttle where really close together meaning I had to angle my foot to avoid hit both the brake and accelerator. You could not left foot brake as the steering column is inbetween clutch and the brake and there is not room to get your foot round it.

6. SENSE OF SPEED (This is main difference hence the captial letters). The feel of acceleration powering out of a bend in 3rd gear is incredible. The Track I drove on had an expanding radius curve going onto the back straight which meant you could floor the throttle whilst turning and keep it going till you get to ~100mph (I had to ask one of the drivers at the track about speed as there is no speed gauge in the car, just a rev counter). It took me a few laps to do this flat out and it was quite scary. I can't imagine the guts needed to do similar things in Le Mans or F1 cars which have nearly 10 times the power.

7.The Oh **** Factor. I accidently braked late a couple of times leaving myself watching the tyres or escape road approach much to fast for comfort and praying that the brakes would slow it down enough to turn in time. In games you can just graze them without any problems or even slam straight into them and you and your car can start the race again. On a track its game over.

I have driven fast road cars before but even though the Formula Ford only had 115BHP it was ludicrously fast (due to the low weight about 440KG). There was a Ferrari F355 there that couldn't stay anywhere near the Formula Ford cars.

Having said this though GT4 and other games do give you a good appreciation of the racing line and where you should be on the track. Along with this they give you a part of the excitment of driving fast, without this I probably would never have had the idea of driving on a track (that I would put up there with some of the best things I've done) so even if they can never get anywhere near fully recreating a driving experience they do give you a hint of what motor sport is all about.

 

[chameleon2]

I suppose GT4 helps a lot.....to a certain extend. I'm not stupid, I'm not comparing the two together, just looking how one can help another. If you bear in mind it's limitations and understand the physical and mental differences I guess a lot can be learned from the game, however racing IRL should be learned from the beginning. Once you understand the differences even more is to be learned from GT. Here's an piece from an interview with YK:

What car did you drive when you were young?
Well, of course I’ve driven a racing car but I don’t have an experience of stepping up gradually in order to improve my driving skill. The first car I drove was a light vehicle, a tiny car. The next one was a [Toyota] Corolla. I started driving cars with little power but I didn’t have any special experience such as racing drivers have.

You didn’t learn to drive by racing at a track day?
In that sense, I learnt to drive with Gran Turismo.

I can't understand everyone here thinks nothing can be learned from it. Of course there's no clutch, but you can see the GT shifting right? You understand the mechanical changes happening and physics changing when you dump the clutch. And who cares the throttle is different....half throttle is half throttle....Brakes and steering same thing. No G-forces? That's why you have this bar, so you could see what you otherwise would feel... Of course there are a lot of limitations but again: I am not talking about everyday driving, purely racing on a track....
edit: basically how I see it is the two are totally different but one can help another ? No one agrees with me???

 

[PMental]

Hey Moonman...

I drove a Formula Ford a couple of years back on the Mantorp track in Sweden, all points valid there... that gearbox really is a pig unless you use the right twitch when shifting (having driven manual in a standard car really is no help at all!) and I think even with a H-pattern shifter (like ACT Labs stuff) and clutch you won't get even close to the real feeling.

All valid points, really have nothing to add, just that I agree with about everything in there about the experience of a Formula car on track (even such "lowly" things such as the Formula Ford cars).

The feeling of passing two cars on the long straight, then breaking so hard that you're basically your own manual ABS before the corner is nothing but a huge adrenalinerush

 

[XCNuse]

i use live for speed to practice my parallel parking, on the autocross, live for speed can be pretty usefull for learning lessons as such

as some of yall have said about a physical and mental connection, that is true, with as many cars as there is in GT4, you can learn about how cars can react in a real life situation. It's not totally real, but it will lead to knowing what to do in certain situations.

like PMental said above, i have a full setup for my computer for live for speed, all i need is a driving force pro to make it better and more fun, but right now i have 3 pedals (well.. actualy 4, but dont use brake on other set, just use gas for clutch), ACT Labs H shifter (discontinued sadly), and a momo racing... and i swear... at first, that thing ruined my driving. In all racing games that you use a wheel, you will find yourself correcting every little move you make, trying to save time... which in life, all that does is make you a worse driver, because the car is going back and forth and making everyonein the back... well like this:


either way, a DFP can and cant help. the problem with GT4 is that you have no mirrors, and you really arent driving all that close, if anything, Live for Speed will make you a better driver compared to GT4, GT4 may have all these nice options and such, but it isnt directed to real life driving like LFS does.

anyways, the one HUGE difference is G-Forces as mentioned several times.. it does make a HUGE impact on the way you drive, because you can learn your limits and the cars limits, whereas in GT4, you can brake so hard just sitting in one spot, in life you would be squished against the window

so.. if you want to learn some things about driving, go for live for speed, GT4 isnt so much of a "learning" tool as LFS is. Sure it may teach you a few things, but there are many more things you need to know about driving in life compared to racing.

sorry for long post

 

[the real 6c]

I have alot of thoughts on this topic after reading all the posts. I am going to keep it short because a couple of the people sad it very well. I will just put in my 2¢ on what i think is most important to keep in mind.

1. I think techniques learned in real life will be more apparent in the game. I don't think it works nearly as well the other way around. They are always there, but you may not realize the true extent of your actions or how to correctly implement them. On the other hand, I do think learning how to save a car in the game would help in real life if you can keep your cool. I just think this because it is relatively the same, and the experience from the game is better than trying to remember what they told you in drivers ed. If you can just react and countersteer instead of trying to think "turn into the spin..."

2. I think the most important thing to remember is that is is a game. It isn't real life, and in the game you are racing. In real life, the point is not to take an S hitting both apex's and crossing into oncoming lanes. I had a problem when i first started driving, I was trying to use my racing experience on the road. Its quite different. Its not like driving on a race track, the soccer mom in front of you see's you coming up in her mirror 50+mph faster than her, she might try to get out of your way. then when you try to pass her(because you waited til the last minute while trying to draft her) she tries to get out of your way and you slam into the back of her SUV full of kids.

The best advice is this, even if GT4 was "real driving" with your DFP, it is completely different. you are sitting down and turning a wheel and pushing pedals...that about it.

and don't left foot brake in a street car, the DMV hates that.

All that aside, your DFP would familiarize you with the basics of DRIVING, not parking, following the laws, or how to deal with traffic that is not racing you. All of which are major parts of driving.

*sorry, I really did intend to keep it short.

 

[XCNuse]

speaking of left foot braking and how its not really "allowed" what about toe-heel downshifting? never really asked anyone about that, do you think they would allow that or no?

..i mean.. its safe(er) and better for the car

 

[PMental]

speaking of left foot braking and how its not really "allowed" what about toe-heel downshifting? never really asked anyone about that, do you think they would allow that or no?

..i mean.. its safe(er) and better for the car

It's hardly safer, as it gives the driver more to think about unless it's a completely subconcious action (used during hard breaking), which takes a lot of experience... more to think about, less reactive to environment, more prone to accident.

Neither is it really better for the car under normal circumstances... you could just as well just break to the correct speed, then move the foot to the accelerator and tap it before releasing the clutch (thus rev-matching), no need to use heel-toe, that's just for racing when you actually need to keep on the brakes while both using the clutch and the accelerator to maximise breaking power.

Would excellent heel-toe technique impress a driving teacher? Hell no... they'd think you were about to use your drivers license to drive like a madman and streetrace at every opportunity imo... unless you're in racing school...

 

[sideslider]

Also why is that right foot-only braking rule so important? I use both feet with the DFP for quicker response, and it's so much more comfortable than using heel-toe. I think I would be coordinated enough not to press both at the same time on accident, or is there some other reason?

I remember something from drivers ed that said not to use the left foot for breaking because youd end up pushing both and the gas will always over power the break.......but if you're in an automatic and you were an experienced driver maybe this rule doesnt apply.....ive legally driven on public roads since i was 14....and i dont remember ever really using left foot breaking untill i learned a little about driving techniques.. i've experimented with it a little and i dont think it made a drastic difference.....of course i never tried it in a high speed race.

 

[sideslider]

you could just as well just break to the correct speed, then move the foot to the accelerator and tap it before releasing the clutch (thus rev-matching), no need to use heel-toe, that's just for racing when you actually need to keep on the brakes while both using the clutch and the accelerator to maximise breaking power.

sorry to double post here but what exactly are you trying to say?

do you know what you're talking about? 👍

 

[maki]

heh, Im 22 years old, and I still dont know how to drive a real car.

That's crazy! Around here, kids get their license when they're 14! Living in the country, my parents pretty much FORCED me to start driving as soon as I was that old, I guess they were sick of giving me rides to/from town every day. Of course, we really don't have any public transportation at all........except for the school bus, meaning no after-school activities, and the old-person bus, which wouldn't come pick up a kid in the country anyways.

 

[XCNuse]

Would excellent heel-toe technique impress a driving teacher? Hell no... they'd think you were about to use your drivers license to drive like a madman and streetrace at every opportunity imo... unless you're in racing school...

..oh ya

well.. im pretty good at heel-toe and i never overbrake.. i've just been trying to learn it so i can use it... someday

 

[newbielives]

I dont know if the actual GT driving helps but what did help was learning to use break and gas with one foot.

I found that using one foot when driving a real car for the first time was quite un natural so I practiced it in GT3 until it was natural.

 

[MetalBMX52]

Ive been driving for 2 years in an Acura 3.5 RL and a GMC Suburban, and I have to say that the wheel from logitec that I have is NOTHING like the real thing on the premice of a couple of things, 1. Small Wheel, 2. Its force feed back is using a gear to shift the wheel left and right with no "actual" feedback, just a routine feedback, 3. Pedals are to close together, and dont stick to the ground as well as a real car, plus going 80 is nothing like driving even 230 on most of these games. Going 100 is really hard to control on turns that arent on a highway, when on the game, you have a bigger road to drive on then a real car. Basically theyre doing a good job of simulating the real experience, but it will never be the same until they make a chair, like in arcades, for these games.

 

[PMental]

sorry to double post here but what exactly are you trying to say?

do you know what you're talking about? 👍

I'd like to think so yes, don't take my comment out of context though, I meant that there really isn't any need for heel-toe in day-to-day driving... on a racetrack, certainly, but not when driving your kids to school if you follow?

And if you want to rev-match when shifting down (under normal driving conditions, like going shopping), there's no need to do it under hard breaking (which is why you need heel-toe normally, to break, use the clutch AND the throttle), you could just as well break and engage clutch, shift down and after you've slowed down sufficiently from breaking, blip the throttle and release the clutch.

Make any sense?

 

[Crayola]

"Takin' it back to the old school , cos I'm an old fool who's so cool."

Whomp there it is?

Tag team back again. Yer it is, right now Im listening to Can't Touch This by MC Hammer but it was by chance, not choice.

 

[Super Jamie]

yo, sound the bell, school's in SUCKA

 

[Mooman117]

A couple of things I forgot to mention in my previous post is the visibility and mirrors in a single seater. The only time i even thought about looking in my mirrors was on the straights and they bounce around like anything. The rest of the time your to focused on getting through the corners. They can give you an idea if there is a car behind you but not much else (like how many, how fast and which way there going to go).

On one lap there was a guy driving quite close behind me I knew he was there on the straight but after the next couple of bends he was gone and I had no idea what had happened. For the next couple of laps we where yellow flaged and there was a van recovering a car from getting stuck in the grass. It was only after when I saw a video that I realised that the guy behind me had run wide. I didn't have a clue that this had happened even though he was only a few metres behind.

In GT4 you only see cars that are right behind you and not any in the distance (a TV resolution and polygon issue probably) but its easy to see what they are going to do (pass left or right or ram you). In real life you see a lot further behind you but when cars are closer up its difficult to know exactly where they are as you just have small side mirrors that bounce around like crazy and obviously no panoramic rear view.

Of course all this might just be me needing to get used to them though.

 

[pompey88]

I ordered my DFP yesterday and have my first driving lesson on thursday

Can't wait for both! I doubt it will help my with driving though...

 

[nun0]

the point of gt4 is be the fastest and win the races and in real life is not to pass the mark and to follow the rules...
if you learn to drive in GT4 you will be a maniac in the streets!!!...

 

[stumpydino]

i wouldnt use gt4 as practice, ok so it may help a little with hand-eye coordination and steering, but thats the easy part of driving. the main things when you start drivin in real life is clutch control and mirrors, oh they love mirrors dammit you spend more time looking behind ya . i got a lesson today in bout 2 hours

 

[_kamikazefly_]

i wouldnt use gt4 as practice, ok so it may help a little with hand-eye coordination and steering, but thats the easy part of driving. the main things when you start drivin in real life is clutch control and mirrors, oh they love mirrors dammit you spend more time looking behind ya . i got a lesson today in bout 2 hours

i would say the other way round, real life driving helps to race on GT4, racing also helps greatly aswell, although i heard on some occassions that some people learned some techniques from GT3.

lol i got lesson in about a couple of houres aswell, good luck mate.