The DS3 advantage

  • Thread starter Thread starter chuyler1
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-raVer-
I´d like see some proof of this other (Pad) "steering help"
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You can see it by yourself: check out the front tires on the external view by looking back and watch how they behave with pad steering input in varying conditions. Sometimes at full lock they will turn just a few degrees, other times more; when you're countersteering they'll turn to the opposite direction very quickly, way more than at zero speed. Also in general, the higher the speed, the less they will turn at "full lock" on a straight line.

With a pad there's no fixed relationship between in-game steering angle and controller direction input. With it you can never apply too much input, because the game will limit it for you to prevent under/oversteer due to excessive steering angle.
 
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-raVer-
The only known "existance of some kind of steering help" is Active Steering.
The rest is rather speculation.
I´d like see some proof of this other (Pad) "steering help"

Try it out with D-Pad and X/Square for gas/break and tell me your findings. ;)



raVer
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Look up...there's your proof...check it out and tell me what you find...
 
Rotary Junkie
I do all of that with a wheel.

I was quick with the pad in GT4 but GT5 loves good throttle control... Though one thing I will hand to the pad is that the quick lock-to-lock steering means you can have a much more oversteery car be relatively drivable whereas with a wheel you'll either loop it, get snapback, or it'll just feel like a ton of work and you still won't be particularly fast.
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Yes definate;y the quick lock to lock is a great advantage. Take a look at the leaderboards for drifting. Most of the top seeded players if not all use a controller. In my opinion it is much better for drifting, as you would most probably bust up your wheel trying to turn it at that rate.
 
It's not really the "lock-to-lock" speed per se, as there normally is some sort of input buffer. Pressing the left and right directions quickly does not necessarily cause wheels to turn at full lock as directed, except in certain cases. One of those is when countersteering.

The advantage in drifting of the DS3 is that its built-in steering assist makes countersteering much easier than with a wheel by applying when needed optimal steering angle at the right speed. This makes very hard to spin inadvertently a car with a joypad. With a wheel it's all up to the driver, making countersteer management much more complex and easier to quickly lose control. This is the main reason why most of the top players in the drifting leaderboards use joypads.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
It's not really the "lock-to-lock" speed per se, as there normally is some sort of input buffer. Pressing the left and right directions quickly does not necessarily cause wheels to turn at full lock as directed, except in certain cases. One of those is when countersteering.

The advantage in drifting of the DS3 is that its built-in steering assist makes countersteering much easier than with a wheel by applying when needed optimal steering angle at the right speed. This makes very hard to spin inadvertently a car with a joypad. With a wheel it's all up to the driver, making countersteer management much more complex and easier to quickly lose control. This is the main reason why most of the top players in the drifting leaderboards use joypads.
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Are they using the directional arrows or the analog sticks?
 
I think the advantages in using the controller while using a steering wheel - is the provision of more delicate/slight steering which makes it easier to turn slight corners in narrower place - surrounded with barriors and mostly blind to expect in which direction to go, whereas with a steering wheel you're more likely to be put in case where you've swerved too much to lose control.

On wider track, less corners such as the Fuji the wheel comes above the controller in that the oversteering can be suppressed by half-throttle in acceleration, which is hard to do with a pad.
 
That brings up a good point. Some tracks obviously favor one over the other. Fuji, Daytona Road Course, and Cape Ring Periphery are difficult with a controller because careful modulation of the steering and/or throttle are necessary.

Tracks like London, Eiger Short Track, and Autumn Ring Mini appear to be easier to negotiate with a controller because you can negotiate the sharp turns with greater precision by just mashing the turn arrows down and letting the game decide what angle is necessary to make the turn.

Anyway, some days I truly enjoy driving in this game, and others I feel like the game is doing all the work and I am simply mashing pedals and flicking the wheel to simulate what is done with the controller.
 
esoxhntr
as you know i'm a ds3 user. i do tend to tune the suspension for many of my cars for very slight oversteer because i tend to steer with the throttle but that's just style.
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I do that also. :cheers:

No doubt there'd be some adjustments but I dont think I'd be completely retuning/thinking setups. I could be wrong.. but I doubt it.
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Completely retuning/thinking setups no...I tuned a 900hp corvette for a DFGT user...very few adjustments to be done. (i'm a DS3 user)

DS3 advantage:
Ds3 (controller) user probably have a bigger background (Hours/years)than Wheel user...
 
Advantage?
The only advantage pad has over the wheel is it can make full lock faster which in practice means that it'll only do good in drifting.
Whereas on the downside it lacks:
Precision steering;
Force Feedback;
Much, much, much better accelerator/brake control;
Better feel and easier control of the car.

Yes, in theory pad can match wheel but it's impossible in practice.
With wheel it's much easier to drive fast and the faster you go it doesn't get much harder whereas with a pad - the faster you go the harder it gets, you reach a point where it's so hard that you just can't keep control anymore.


To sum it up - pad doesn't have any advantage apart from faster steering (which is only useful in drifting).
 
The DS3 is not just faster lock-to-lock (only in certain cases), it's heavily assisted to make cars easier to handle, although as you say the drawbacks are lack of precision, feedback and unbuffered control.
 
lacks:
Precision steering;
easier control of the car.
Yes, in theory pad can match wheel but it's impossible in practice.
with a pad - the faster you go the harder it gets
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You are clearly not a ds3 user...Most ds3 users will disagree with these points-(what is quote its more about the driver than the controller)

The good point about the wheel is Smoothness! Smoothness=fast.
 
Nicktune
You are clearly not a ds3 user...Most ds3 users will disagree with these points-(what is quote its more about the driver than the controller)

The good point about the wheel is Smoothness! Smoothness=fast.
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You can be very smooth with a ds3 you just have to have that touch..I'd put my ds3 up against anyone with a wheel
 
I don't think that GT5 purposely favors the DS3 but I do think if you're experienced with it you could be a bit quicker than the wheel. I say this because for instance someone with a wheel can go post a certain steering angle and start to smoke up the front tires while someone with a DS3 can't go past that certain angle to loose grip in the front tires like someone with a wheel can. I also believe that if the tail end gets loose and you're using a DS3 you can easily countersteer with a flick of the joystick while someone with a wheel has to rotate the wheel to do so which it turn can take a lot longer therefore making for a longer tail end slide slowing you down or even loosing control. The last thing I will bring up as an example is when you're accelerating off the line or braking sharply for a turn someone with a DS3 can do so very quickly with a press of a button but for someone with a wheel it could take a bit longer.

This is just my opinion and in the long run someone with a DS3 might have a slight advantage but the wheel is still way more fun. :sly:
 
Everyone seems to forget that all buttons besides start and select are analog. So if someone is good with precision inputs they could be just as good as a stick user. As far as countering oversteer there is a point where the ds3 user can not counter the tail wobble effect like a wheel user can which makes a spinout a big possibility with high hp rwd cars.
 
Have you got a wheel?

As I've written several times in this threads, buttons on the DS3 are analog, but they're buffered/assisted, steering controls especially (you can check out that by yourself, as for how, check previous posts). This means that your inputs do not affect directly what the car is doing, but go through an additional layer which processes them. Think of it as the permanent "steering assist" that is in Forza Motorsports 3, only more effective in making the car easier to control. With a 900 degree wheel you have instead direct, unbuffered control of throttle, brake and steering (with wheels having a smaller total steering angle, there's is still some sort of steering assist, which is adjustable, although it cannot be disabled completely with a setting in the options menu).

I find that in general it's much easier to recover oversteer on a DS3 than with my DFGT wheel because of this.
 
Nicktune
You are clearly not a ds3 user...Most ds3 users will disagree with these points-(what is quote its more about the driver than the controller)

The good point about the wheel is Smoothness! Smoothness=fast.
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I am a pad user (sixaxis).
My GT3 RS is en route tho.
 
I find the DS3 will always steer a little too hard and will constantly screech the front wheels. It will also recover from slides that wheel users couldn't.

The wheel offers precision. I think the differences in lap times is negligible. If it really bothers you, learn to use both well.
 
MrGrado
I find the DS3 will always steer a little too hard and will constantly screech the front wheels. It will also recover from slides that wheel users couldn't.

The wheel offers precision. I think the differences in lap times is negligible. If it really bothers you, learn to use both well.
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👍
Which results in increased tyre wear.
This is the thing which prevents me from playing in online racing leagues.
I'm just unable to save tires (endurance racing).
 
DS3 requires precision. And it can work very well when used correctly. I can run with guys with wheels and run with them.
 
I have been using DS3 for the last few weeks from being too lazy to get my wheel out but just now I ran laps with my wheel to compare lap times to my hot lap save files of two of my tunes.

I was 1 second faster each time with the wheel at suzuka. I compared the laps of one tune in the data logger. Both laps were consistent, as in they were both driven fast and clean and looked much the same on the data logger but the lap I did with the wheel was slightly faster over quite a lot of the lap.

I think the wheel is faster for me mostly because of the extra information you get from the force feedback and only partly from increased precision. I can see from the brake/throttle trace that I am operating the DS3 with decent precision.
 
Pad vs wheel...the epic battle!! =) I think it depends on your experience...I used pad since ps1...I spent years playing with pad. A race like GtAcademy is the answer...the top 100/200 from all Countries is leaded by wheel users! So if you are good enough you can go faster with a wheel...but it isn't easy! I used the pad at GtAcademy first round...I qualified for the national final (8th)...I was half a second slower than the first italian! I set the 1 lap time in Italy with the pad, the 2 in all Europe! I think I can reach this goal because of my experience with pad...years and years spent playing with pad...and I started playing the GT saga from GT4 (bought 2 years ago)! Without assists "wheelers" are faster than "padders"...It's "impossible" to control the car with only few buttons and an analog stick...but I bet with tcs or skid recovery turn on, a padder is faster than a wheel user! After the first round of GtAcademy I bought the DFGT...after months using wheel, I think I'm not fast as the pad...for me It's more difficult...let's see through the years =)
In the end, both pad and wheel have advantages and disadvantages!
 
Pippo46
Pad vs wheel...the epic battle!! =) I think it depends on your experience...I used pad since ps1...I spent years playing with pad. A race like GtAcademy is the answer...the top 100/200 from all Countries is leaded by wheel users! So if you are good enough you can go faster with a wheel...but it isn't easy!
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This very true, even look at the top guys in the time trials vs drift trials, if you "master" both the wheel and ds3 you will find the wheel will give you the edge in racing, but in the drift trials it's basically mandatory to use a ds3 if you want to be as high as possible on the rankings

I use the wheel for racing...(and licenses) but I use the DS3 for drifting (and taking photos because you cant move with a wheel), because you can throw a car into a slide, lock the stick in full counter steer and then it's all up to throttle control, which is best on a wheel but if you get good not by much which definately out does the amount of time it takes to turn the wheel 900 degrees, and the handbrake is awkward on a stock dfgt, having to find the circle button in that awkward angle you may have the wheel

But there is the hks racing controller which is supposedly good too but I dont have one
 
for me its the same.. with my SixAxis its mucht easyer to run faster lap times.. all power is in your thumbs and extreme tuning, if you can control them well you can drive much faster with SixAxis controler.. I owned DFGT and now Im driving with G27 wheel.. I can say it for sure! if you do it well then your a winner!

same goes for Drift... I can do 20x times more points with sixaxis and crazy tuning!

PS.. but its nothing new or big.. this is normal! just pressing buttons is much easyer (if you know how!) and faster than do it with proper wheel.. but sixaxis dont even compare in FUN and REAL factor.. wheels are the best!
 

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