The Essence of GT

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Sven

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I've seen lots of people complain about having certain cars and race types and such in GT, because it doesn't fit the "essense of GT." But what is the essense of GT? People say it's supposed to be a Grand Touring simulator, which is understandable, but it has moved far beyond that lowly beginning.

Some people don't like rally races, some people don't want F1s, some people don't want drags, some people don't want drift races, some people don't want visual customization aside from race mods...but who are we to dictate what GT should be? Shouldn't we be ok with it as long as they don't force it on us (i.e. require it for 100%) and/or stray from the simulation core of Gran Turismo? Sure it started out as a Grand Touring type game, but isn't it a good thing that it's moving beyond that to become an all out general car simulator, embracing all forms of 4 wheeled motorsport and aestetics? What will we lose if they include "fluff" like drifting and customizing?
 
i already made a thread about people complaining about what will and wont be in gt4 and it seemed to piss some people off so dont be suprised if u get some pointless comments pretty soon.
 
I've also seen many topics like this one. But any way. The "essense" of GT has little to do with real GT racing. Its mostly about the vision of Kaznori Yamauchi. Many people dont know or realize that so they complain.
 
Well what happens if the Fluff is required to hit 100%?

A Drifting course that totals your points, and you need a certain percentage to get there? What doea that mean? Will you still aim for 100%? Isn't that the same as requiring us to run all the rally races to reach 100%?

Just pointing out a small hole in your theory.

AO
 
All I have to say is that you can't stick to the same things and expect to get a better and more enjoyable game overall (for most). I see no problem with drift, visual enhancement etc. under the condition that they add to the overall experience of the game.
 
I think the essence of GT is being able to drive cars the way they are meant to be driven. To drive cars you may not be able to drive in real life at places you may not be able to visit in real life. GT is all about enjoying driving and the cars you drive.

If you add body kits or drifting competitions to GT, you invite an unwanted crowd of posers and wannabes who think nothing more than of what kind of nitrous oxide bottle they have in the trunk.
 
But isnt that still a legitimate form of an automotive enjoyment? If this is a true "simulator" all areas must be covered.
 
Installing a NOS bottle and replacing your hood with a carbon fiber one is not "automotive passion".
 
If NOS was in Gran Turismo 4. that would completely suck.

The essense of GT is bringing your dreams on your T.V screen. Driving a Shelby Cobra on Laguna Seca. That's what dreams are made of. Atleast mine are. :embarrassed:
 
Whoops didnt mean to use such strong a word. And i agree that NOS would be dumb, I was referring to drift visual upgrades.
 
Personally i dont play GT3 for the sake of beating it, but to enjoy it. That's what i think the game should be all about.
 
Agreed, that's why certain elements must be included for an enjoyable experience for all who choose to play GT4.
 
Viper Zero
Installing a NOS bottle and replacing your hood with a carbon fiber one is not "automotive passion".
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So says you, but not to the person doing it. Automotive passion is about having a car, and loving everything it brings you. If you have a Jeep CJ, automotive passion to you might be going out mudding, or hill climbing. Or, you might have an old Fiat Spider. Then, automotive passion to you would possibly be just taking a weekend drive or trip. Its all about what you like to do with your own car. Now, I'm not saying I want N20, lighted washer nozzels, and giant wings in the game, but that might be what someone likes and is passionate about.

I think the game is about taking various cars from many different eras and companys, and learning their little differences, and how they handle, and then learning how to extract the full extent of its speed out on various race courses. Those accessories and things like that have nothing to do with that or what the game is about, but you can't say its not automotive passion, because it probably is to someone.

Hilg
 
Everyone hate'n something, Just enjoy what you like and dont care for what you dont. Nos? big deal, carbon fiber hoods, big deal. Someone likes those and something for eveyone is the best way to go. I'm a true automotive enthusist. Visual mods are "automotive passion" to the person the likes them. If GT4 had a 3 wheel'd electic powered fork with a carbon fiber cylinder painted too look like a NOS bottle you still wouldn't hear a peep out of me about something being wrong about it.

I never got pass 56% in GT3 and 74% in GT2, playing the games means more than beating it just to unlock an ending video I can down load :).
 
Well said man, everyone's love of cars can be different and however different it may be from your own you still have to respect it.
 
What are "Visual Mods" exactly?

Stickers? LED lights? Vinyl? That all sounds like rice to me.

This is what I meant by attracting the wrong crowd. These people will whine all day long why their panda Corolla or Civic hatch just got blown away by a finely tuned car. They will blame it on the lack of "visual mods", body kits, and nitrous oxide bottles.
 
What makes them the wrong crowd? Because you dont like these people? I'm sure they like racing games too. Oh wait, you're talking about real life right?
 
They are the wrong crowd because they will see GT differently.

They see Japanese imports in GT and they (the wannabes, posers, ricers, etc.) automatically think street racing, drifting, rice, body kits, "visual mods" (whatever the hell that is), etc. They will demand (like some people at this forum) that GT should have these things. That is not what GT is about.

It's like asking EA to implement Basketball into Madden Football, just for the sole purpose of me liking Basketball. :rolleyes: Sorry, it just doesn't work like that.
 
Viper Zero
They are the wrong crowd because they will see GT differently.
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But, everyone will see the game differently. You can't MAKE people see the game the same way. I have a friend that just doesn't care for cars. He just wants something to get "a to b" and thats it. But, he loves to play GT3 and race with me using 2 GT-Ones on the High Speed Ring. Couldn't care less about the rest of the game, or anything car related for that matter, but you get into a drafting battle with him on the HSR, and he's hooked. So, should he not be allowed to play because he isn't a 'true' car enthusiast???

Thats my point. Everyone who plays a game, ANY game, will have something they like in it that could be different than everyone else. You can't just make a game, and say "Play it this way and LOVE it, or we HATE YOU!!" I don't like those gimicky visual things people do to their cars, but its their car, so who cares. If that person wants to play GT and drive Civics and Neons all the time, who cares. I don't want to, but they can. This isn't Augusta National, we don't have membership requirements, we can't kick you out. If someone plays the game, and has a complaint, they are allowed to do that. We can't just tell them to get lost. Everyone will differ, you just have to know that.

Hilg
 
Let me tell you something, Sven. Having been a Gran Turismo veteran, I've grown fond of Gran Turismo for what the essence of GT is all about. Here's my rendition.

The essence of GT is being car crazy (hello, Barry Meguiar!). I mean, it doesn't matter if your car is a Fiat 500R from the 1970s or a Toyota GT-One or even a McLaren F1, you have a car, a track, no limits, almost unlimited tuning, and there are several million ways to make your car work better. Don't want to be technical? You can always add a serious Stage 4 Turbo, Stage 3 NA, tune for "grip," tune for "drift," I mean, contrary to popular belief, there are several ways to win in Gran Turismo. And as far as rally goes, I have always had fun drifting around Tahiti Circuit and Smokey Mountain. These are two wonderful race tracks I've enjoyed through the series. The Swiss Alps was fun. And when it comes to road racing? I love buring rubber starting on a street called Aoyama-Dori in Tokyo, and all the way around with a serious sense of speed in Tokyo. The lights of the city sparkle off of my Toyota GT-One from SSR11. A Mini is can be fun to race around almost anywhere, even if I can have a 1275S Mini Cooper to rally or road race. That car can be pushed to 239 hp in GT2, but still make for a fun little car with a nice engine note. Plus, you can race Kei cars and small cars. Because after all, pure performance doesn't come in race cars and sports cars. The joy of driving. The passion for racing. Almost anything goes. THAT, is the essence of Gran Turismo.

Was that enough for you, Sven?
 
The essence of GT is to escape from the real world for a couple of hours, just drive around with cars and their computed-like-real-life physics.

The essence of GT is to race Yaris's (I am on Pal) against each other, where your racing line is more important than how hard you can hit the accelarator or brake.

The essence of GT is to race the cars you want.

I agree with sven that trying to cover every aspect of 4wheel motorsports can be getting away form that essence of the first GTseries. But the essence from GT is perhaps that there might be too much in (drifting etc,, what to expect in GT4), however you can always go and pick a car/race that will give you that feeling of, just driving...
 
"It's like asking EA to implement Basketball into Madden Football, just for the sole purpose of me liking Basketball. Sorry, it just doesn't work like that.
"

Thats a terrible analogy. In real life you can't incorporate basketball into Football. But you can incorporate visual mods into all kinds of cars. You buy a car you dont have to alter the looks unless you want to. I'd rather be able to and not. than not be able to and not. Many people see alltezza lights and yell out rice not knowing if the car is running 18psi of boost under the hood.
 
Another thing I find weird is how people always call japanese cars japanese imports.. it's true they become imports just like any other foreign product when brought over to your country, but somehow I've started to take it offensively :confused:
Maybe it's to blame all ricers and people who hate them and their cars and believe every single japanese car is a bad thing :D
 
Very half-assed, Speed Drifter.

Japanese cars are imports if you live in another country besides Japan, duh. Same goes with German imports, Korean imports, British imports, etc.

Unfortunately, ricers tend to rice out Japanese imports more than any other vehicle.

Ricers use your excuse to justify ricing up their cars. Ricers think people hate their cars just because they are Japanese. No, we hate what you did to your cars, not where they came from. If you think I hate Japanese cars, you are dead wrong.
 
Sorry but.. that's not what I meant, I don't think any of you guys hate any kind of cars. I've just seen enough people who don't understand a thing about cars or are being so patriotic it's seems more like racism.. that's why the word "import" has bad taste in my mouth :guilty:
 
The essence of GT should be Grand Touring. If we want a testament to the history of our sport as a whole, it's the logical choice. GT is all about professionalism. "Ricers" by definition are not professional motorsport enthusiasts, they're car enthusiasts who choose to modify their vehicles. But do they do it for performance? Most of the time, no. That's the main reason we keep using to justify extraneous additions to a car being disallowed - you don't see them in GT racing, so why should they be in GT?

People in favour of personalising such cars would curry more favour if they didn't come off as just being interested in adding vinyls and other nonsense to a car but applied it to a more general audience. If you're allowed to "rice" up your vehicles, why not campaign for people being able to buy and then lovingly restore antique motorvehicles? I see questions about carbon-fibre hoods but I can't recall one asking if we can buy a second hand Model T and then set about restoring it. That's essentially the same love of cars though. But how do you go about that? People adore restoring old cars, but that joy comes from the hard work of taking something old and making it look brand new through painstaking work, hour after hour, day after day, for as long as it takes. You can't recreate that in a virtual environment and most enthusiasts recognise that. So why then is "ricing" ok for "ricers"? Doesn't throwing meaningless wings onto their FF Astra feel awfully artificial?

The modern world of GT racing gets more and more professional by the day. When you look at the budgets outlayed by top teams to develop new technologies, test cars, employ the best people at every level of their organisation, it's astronomical. They squeeze every dollar, they shift every kilo and they stretch every last horsepower. There's no room for anything that doesn't offer some advantage.

I don't hate "ricing", but I don't get why it has to be in GT. It's not like people who enjoy it are bereft of ways to express their pleasure, games like Underground should be to the "ricer" culture what GT is to Grand Touring enthusiasts. Underground 2 is in the works with even more to offer, so why don't these people go petition EA to make the game more realistic or something instead of petitioning PD to include things that in a real GT universe wouldn't exist? And that's the same basis on which people are arguing against the inclusion of F1 cars, which is perfectly legitimate. What's the difference? I don't honestly know. If it's not professionalism of the culture then it is just bias, and that's not right but will always exist.
 
Just for any one who didn't get to read the booklets to the various Gran Turismo games...

"In the begining" Grand Touring was really about racing in a car that had room for atleast 2 people and their luggage.
For real.

Now, if you were to ask me about the heart of gt racing... Well, I'm gonna need a little more time on that one.
Maybe I could come back in a few days?
Cool. 👍
 
GoKents, sir, I've mentioned that in another thread. The history of GT that is, from the Gran Turismo 2 booklet. I can't remember which thread I fully typed the booklet ver batum.
As far as Eagle goes... I really don't mind these machines you talk about in your last paragraph. I mean, just because of some kits and performance upgrades doesn't mean the machine is a miss for GT4. The cars are perchance better than what you may find straight from the dealer. A person has to have a heart, a vision, and the car to try to acheive whatever the owner wishes to acheive. I mean, don't expect to see a 350Z S-Tune try to mix it up against the Viper GTS-R, the TVR Speed 12, or even the Pescarolo Le Mans racer. Think of this has a carefully-modified car to be better than it's supposed to be, like the works Mini Cooper from GT2.

I just think Gran Turismo is trying out new things. It's always alright to do that. I mean, don't expect to see a Supra with a Veilside kit and carry the same stock horsepower. I'm pretty sure these machines can still deliver on track. I can't really recall a machine in which even though I tuned it up, it was worse than what I started with. But in all seriousness, I mentioned the essence of GT on the last page. It's all about freedom and fun. Two "F" words you can't live without with GT.
 
I look at it this way.

"IF" PD puts such distasteful stuff in GT4, It will be a gas kicking the poseurs asses. As long as there is a way to track how many races people quit out of or a way to see how careless a driver is, I will be completely happy as long as you can vote them off. It will all pan itself out, the wannabes will retreat to crap glitching rooms and do burnouts, while we race, or have a spectularly close drift competition.

I look at it this way, when I am logged onto the GT Universe, I know that I will be having fun and wasting the pathetic ricers anyway, and I will be doing it in a completely stock looking car, carefully tuned by myself. No neon lights or crap bodykits for me, for that price I could buy better shocks;). And it's late, I wish I could retreat to the GT Universe right now. :banghead: :banghead: [toself: Slowdown tiger. /]
 

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