The Formula 1 calendar development threadFormula 1
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
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- Hammerhead Garage
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- ijp420uk
- martinp1987 (it's my brothers)
It's already a dud then
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- Hammerhead Garage
I love the way you judge it based on a single two-dimensional planograph - and that you write it off as terrible the moment you find out it was designed by Tilke, despit having received it so well when you believed someone else had penned it. If you actually looked at the circuit, you'd see that the bulk of it is high speed, with a lot of the corners being taken flat-out.
- 12,514
- Ireland
- The__Luke
I'm thinking that track is brilliant.
But seriously Tilke is good at his job.
I'll do a list of his good tracks and his bad tracks.
Good: Sepang
Shanghai
Turkey
Hockenheim
Abu Dhabi
Singapore
Bad:Bahrain
Valencia
Fuji(only the part he did, the rest is brilliant)
You may disagree but that list is pretty honest. I don't want anything about the old Hockenheim. The new one is good and safe. It did have a good race this year until the team orders incident.
Face it as well, Valencia was a good race this year. It still doesn't deserve a place on the calender. One good race in three years isn't good enough.
Bahrain is pretty hit and miss. It's probably capable of a good race. It just hasn't happened. I think a different configuration could be used.
Now, this doesn't mean that much but in F1 2010, but the new track in Korea is pretty good and challenging and it is possible to overtake.
Now this means hardly anything but India, USA and Russia all look like good tracks, but we will have to wait a while to see what they're like.
If I was in charge, you don't make a track because you have an F1 race. You should make it with the aim of getting an F1 race. Now that's a rant.
But seriously Tilke is good at his job.
I'll do a list of his good tracks and his bad tracks.
Good: Sepang
Shanghai
Turkey
Hockenheim
Abu Dhabi
Singapore
Bad:Bahrain
Valencia
Fuji(only the part he did, the rest is brilliant)
You may disagree but that list is pretty honest. I don't want anything about the old Hockenheim. The new one is good and safe. It did have a good race this year until the team orders incident.
Face it as well, Valencia was a good race this year. It still doesn't deserve a place on the calender. One good race in three years isn't good enough.
Bahrain is pretty hit and miss. It's probably capable of a good race. It just hasn't happened. I think a different configuration could be used.
Now, this doesn't mean that much but in F1 2010, but the new track in Korea is pretty good and challenging and it is possible to overtake.
Now this means hardly anything but India, USA and Russia all look like good tracks, but we will have to wait a while to see what they're like.
If I was in charge, you don't make a track because you have an F1 race. You should make it with the aim of getting an F1 race. Now that's a rant.
- 1,163
- ijp420uk
- martinp1987 (it's my brothers)
WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In what way is Bahrain bad? In what way is Fuji bad? Valencia, yeah, that track is a born dud fest
Now these are all the circuits that Tilke has done/going to do:
1998 Sepang International Circuit, Malaysia
2004 Bahrain International Circuit, Bahrain
2004 Shanghai International Circuit, China
2005 Istanbul Park Racing Circuit, Turkey
2006 Cancun, Mexico *Undeveloped
2006 Beijing International Streetcircuit, China
2008 Marina Bay Street Circuit, Singapore *concept design
2007 Bucharest Ring, Romania
2008 Swedbank kartodroms, Latvia
2008 Valencia Street Circuit, Spain
2008 Jakarta Street Circuit, Indonesia
2009 Yas Marina Circuit, Abu Dhabi-United Arab Emirates
2009 Motorland Aragón, Alcaniz, Spain (MotoGP venue)
2010 Dublin Street Circuit, Ireland
2010 Korean International Circuit, South Korea (under construction)
2010 Moscow Raceway, Russia (Planned MotoGP Venue)
2010 Kazakhstan Motor City, Republic of Kazakhstan
2010 Atlanta Motorsports Park, United States of America (under construction)
2011 Jaypee Group Circuit, Greater Noida, India (under construction)
2012 Austin Formula One circuit, United States of America (under development)
Now he has done some awesome circuits but some have been terrible. For example, Valencia and Beijing, but really, do we need Tilke?
Plus, he's planning on overhaulling Monza AND Nurburgring AND Catalunya, now Nurburgring and Catalunya yes but if he destroys Monza.......
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- The__Luke
Overhaul Monza. Don't even think of it Tilke. I do admit that he probably isn't the best, but I'm just saying that to stop people saying that he is terrible. He is heavily confined by the regulations. I really like the Nurburgring though. If he cuts in to the first part of the nordschliefe I will give him a smack. That's a really fast part of it.
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That's the first I've heard of overhauling Monza. And if it is to happen, then it's likely to be a case of reprofiling the first chicane.
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- The__Luke
F1 is digging it's self into a massive hole by getting tracks built just for f1. We have no idea if it's good or not until the big day. They should be signing up stuff like donnington park and Aragon and phillip island instead of getting new ones. It's not as if we can drop these tracks either, otherwise the track owners would be angry because they lost lots of money. If I was in charge I wouldn't sign up a single un-raced track.
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- Hammerhead Garage
Except that most of those circuits you just listed do not have the right licence to host Formula 1 and some of them - like Aragon - aren't interested.
- 630
- New York City
- albtifosi
Suzuka and Spa are the ones we will most likely lose. They have been negotiating spa for quite some time now actually. The problem isn't actually attendance. These circuits just don't have enough funding to host the gp and they are losing a lot every time they run one. I know if they drop Suzuka, we will probably not have a japanese gp because fuji already said they can't afford it.
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- The__Luke
No Japanese grand prix would be slightly more practical for me as I wouldn't have to get up at 6 in the morning. Has motegi ever declined a grand prix there? That's japan's last track realistcally able to host a grand prix and I hope it doesn't. Suzuka should stay.
Spa off the calender would be tragic. It would just prove what a money business that f1 is.
Spa off the calender would be tragic. It would just prove what a money business that f1 is.
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- Hammerhead Garage
Uh, what about Fuji? Unlike Motegi, they've actually hosted the race.
Motegi is rubbish, anyway. It's more of a bike circuit, I think.
Motegi is rubbish, anyway. It's more of a bike circuit, I think.
Peter
(Banned)
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- lol not happening
If Tilke designed Spa tomorrow, would you hate it?
Likewise, if anyone else designed this track, would you think it's a dud?
What's up with all this hate for Tilke? He's done the best he can with what he's been given. He has his very boring tracks, like Valencia, but then there's Istanbul, Shangai isn't too bad either, Abu Dhabi was fine, and some others that have provided good racing.
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People blame Tilke because it's easy to. He's the most visible person in the process, and therefore attracts criticism. Never mind that when he designed the Abu Dhabi circuit, he was given a reclaimed island to work with. If Tilke had his way, he'd build a dozen Nurburginrgs, but he has to work with what he's given. Take Hockenheim, for example: it's fairly obvious he was told to treat the old circuit as a perimeter. Given the shape of the infield, he was never going to be able to do much about it. The fans might hate the new circuit, but look at what Martin Brundle said this year: from a driver's perspective, the new Hockenheim is much better because the old one depended on who had the best engine. No matter how good a driver you were, if you had anything but the best engine in your car, you weren't going to win.
It's the same with the management of the sport. If something happens that people don't like, then Max and/or Bernie must be to blame for it. People don't bother looking at what caused the problem, they just cast the blame. It's gotten to the point where people have the mentality that "Bernie/Max = bad, so anyone who opposes them = good". Never mind that the teams screw things up just as badly as Max did, and that if left to their own devices, the teams would destroy the sport becaue they only care about themselves (we all know that if given control of the technical regulations, individual teams would try to manipulate the rule book to suit their strengths and make it easier for them to win, even at the expense of everyone else and good racing).
It's the same with the management of the sport. If something happens that people don't like, then Max and/or Bernie must be to blame for it. People don't bother looking at what caused the problem, they just cast the blame. It's gotten to the point where people have the mentality that "Bernie/Max = bad, so anyone who opposes them = good". Never mind that the teams screw things up just as badly as Max did, and that if left to their own devices, the teams would destroy the sport becaue they only care about themselves (we all know that if given control of the technical regulations, individual teams would try to manipulate the rule book to suit their strengths and make it easier for them to win, even at the expense of everyone else and good racing).
- 630
- New York City
- albtifosi
Speed broadcast commented about it. If we lose Suzuka there will be no Japanese GP
Also about Tilke. He just can't design the circuit that he wants. Formula 1 has certain standards that a track needs to have. Things like corner camber and elevation slope are limited from what I hear. If any designer had a crack at it, they would have to oblige under the same rulebook and the tracks are going to end up the same as they are now.
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Now Argentina and Mexico are looking at re-joining the championship. Populous has been commissioned to design a new circuit near Zarate, outside Buenos Aires (since the Autodromo Galvez is a glorified kart track), but they stress they're interested in grassroots motorsport first and foremost and won't consider a Formula 1 bid until the project gains more momentum. The Mexicans, on the other hand, are considering a return to Hermanos Rodriguez, but would most likely have to make changes to the Peraltada because of its banking anf total lack of run-off. It would probably be cheaper for someone - like Carlos Slim, the world's richest man - to simply have the circuit rebuilt somewhere else where there is more space (since the land both around and in the circuit have long since been sold). If there are two nations that deserve a return to the calendar, it's Argentina and Mexico, given the sport's enormous popularity. However, this would mean that there would be no less than five races on between the hours of why-the-hell-am-I-still-awake and please-God-just-let-me-sleep. I can barely survive the two on the current calendar.
Elsewhere, the French have finally gotten mad enough to do something about their lack of a Grand Prix, and Renault's Eric Boullier has been commissioned to provide a report on the matter. It appears a French Grand Prix won't be revived until a French driver enters the sport.
Currently, there are twenty races on the calendar. Austin makes twenty-one, but one race - Turkey is the most popular candidate - has to go. But Russia wants in for 2014 (or '15, depending on the IOC). And if Argentina, Mexico and France are all serious about re-joining the calendar, that would make twenty-five races (assuming Turkey can be saved). So we're either going to see another massive expansion of the calendar, some races are going to get axed, or we could even see the calendar shortened with a handful of "core races" (read: Silverstone, Monza, Monaco) and the rest of the championship being made up of events that swap with one another year-in, year-out, not unlike the WRC.
Elsewhere, the French have finally gotten mad enough to do something about their lack of a Grand Prix, and Renault's Eric Boullier has been commissioned to provide a report on the matter. It appears a French Grand Prix won't be revived until a French driver enters the sport.
Currently, there are twenty races on the calendar. Austin makes twenty-one, but one race - Turkey is the most popular candidate - has to go. But Russia wants in for 2014 (or '15, depending on the IOC). And if Argentina, Mexico and France are all serious about re-joining the calendar, that would make twenty-five races (assuming Turkey can be saved). So we're either going to see another massive expansion of the calendar, some races are going to get axed, or we could even see the calendar shortened with a handful of "core races" (read: Silverstone, Monza, Monaco) and the rest of the championship being made up of events that swap with one another year-in, year-out, not unlike the WRC.
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I think we need to have a 20 race maximum for the season. Ultimately, I think the interest is good for the sport and I don't see why we need to have two Spanish GPs, why do we need a European GP when we have so many GPs in Europe anyway? It just seems a little bit of a waste. That all said, interest is one thing, implementation and having a track GP ready is another.
I can't see tracks willing to rotate for a race every year, what I see happening is races competing with each other and GP's costing more money, which will sort of equalise it.
Haven't China expressed concern over the lack of money in it, as well as Australia of late? There could be two GP's we could lose.
It's an interesting issue and a great "problem" to have.
I can't see tracks willing to rotate for a race every year, what I see happening is races competing with each other and GP's costing more money, which will sort of equalise it.
Haven't China expressed concern over the lack of money in it, as well as Australia of late? There could be two GP's we could lose.
It's an interesting issue and a great "problem" to have.
Robin
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I agree that there needs to be less races in Europe but I don't think the maximum should be 20 per season. I personally find it annoying having to sometimes wait 3 weeks between Gran Prix and don't see why they can't do most a week apart and a few 2 weeks. With the F1 logistics being as good as they are there should be no problem to fill the calendar to the brim.
I would like Formula 1 to go to new places and although the old European circuits are good it would be nice to take a break from some of them for a decade and then come back. Ones like Valencia shouldn't even have been created, most boring track ever!
Robin.
I would like Formula 1 to go to new places and although the old European circuits are good it would be nice to take a break from some of them for a decade and then come back. Ones like Valencia shouldn't even have been created, most boring track ever!
Robin.
Tired Tyres
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Pah. The season is about nine months long. They could easily fit 26 races into that with 12 weeks available to split them up so not too many of them are back to back. 
/joke/
/joke/
Tired Tyres
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Double post when editing post!
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- Ardius_
Urgh, I hate this attitude of "well it works now, so surely it must be fine if we increase everything!". Its how people get things wrong, how companies find themselves in a mess and how we get terrible films, games, music, books and so on.
Its never so simple as saying that. Why can't more races only be a week between? Because they already struggle to get everything from Catalunya to Monaco in 2 days. Yes 2 days, its not 7 days from each, the teams have to be at the next event with all their gear by Wednesday at the latest to begin preparations and setup. That leaves Sunday night, Monday and Tuesday to move everything.
Now we are talking increasing the number of races AND moving them away from Europe? So there will be less races that are close in geography and more total races? It ludicrous, we don't need more than 20 races, I don't wish to see the sport burn itself out and I know that the mechanics and truckies do a tonne of work moving and preparing everything. It think its entirely unreasonable to expect them to do it more and for more of the year. Many of these people never go home for months on end and work flat out all year long!
I'd go with Interludes suggestion that races could start swapping each year and perhaps start giving a fairer balance of European versus every other continent's races. Perhaps we are seeing a new era of F1 being a truly international sport rather than a mainly Euro sport.
Annoying to wait 3 weeks? I'll happily wait if it means Mr Hispania mechanic can actually have some rest! Its amazing to read the work mechanics and staff put in during the 90s (Steve Matchett's book is quite revealing in this respect)...one can only begin to imagine what its like nowadays with 4 or 5 more races and longer distances and extreme schedules!
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- F1fan1
interludes
I don't imagine it taking too long. Once Ricciardo gets promoted to Toro Rosso, Jean Eric Vergne will be next in line. The question is, which track would host it?
Great news about Mexico and Argentina though.
Robin
Premium
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@ Ardius
F1 is a wealthy and resourceful sport, their abilities to handle an ever increasing calender is a judgement which will vary from person to person. I'm well aware of the real amount of time they have between races but I still personally don't see it being a problem as they already can handle week gap races.
As for being away from home, no one forced this career on them where they get to travel the world, meet interesting people and get paid a pretty penny to do so.
If its such an issue maybe they should have 2 separate pit crews which alternate between Gran Prix. As it is the FIA has ensured that no one is ever overworked with limited pit crew hours and the overall care of the workforce has improved dramatically since the 90's. Also they don't have in season testing anymore, T-Cars, endless spares etc.. which would have all been a massive burden to pit crews in the past.
Robin.
F1 is a wealthy and resourceful sport, their abilities to handle an ever increasing calender is a judgement which will vary from person to person. I'm well aware of the real amount of time they have between races but I still personally don't see it being a problem as they already can handle week gap races.
As for being away from home, no one forced this career on them where they get to travel the world, meet interesting people and get paid a pretty penny to do so.
If its such an issue maybe they should have 2 separate pit crews which alternate between Gran Prix. As it is the FIA has ensured that no one is ever overworked with limited pit crew hours and the overall care of the workforce has improved dramatically since the 90's. Also they don't have in season testing anymore, T-Cars, endless spares etc.. which would have all been a massive burden to pit crews in the past.
Robin.
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