The Formula 1 calendar development threadFormula 1 

The USGP in Austin was sold out, if they made a Mexican GP then the vaccuum left by the 40% would simply be filled up with more Americans. We don't have to act like there's a finite group of people that attend F1 races, if there's seats available there will be people to fill them.
 
Wardez
The USGP in Austin was sold out, if they made a Mexican GP then the vaccuum left by the 40% would simply be filled up with more Americans. We don't have to act like there's a finite group of people that attend F1 races, if there's seats available there will be people to fill them.
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Especially with the US GP being such a success. It actually made for some good racing. Even with how skeptical I was it was actually an impressive race for a tilke circuit. If it had flopped then maybe we would have empty seats, but I wouldn't think they'd have too much trouble filling it.
 
Red Bull Ring is such a dull track.

Istanbul isn't as bad as people make out, I'd like to see Turkey come back.
 
astrosdude91
I thought Dietrich Mateschitz said F1 wouldn't race on the Red Bull Ring.
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Yeah, he did - four years ago. I can't find anything from him since. And in recent days, both Sebastian Vettel and Helmut Marko have implied that the race could happen. But I'm expecting Turkey to be on the 2013 calendar.

Unless Bernie wants 21 races. The new Concorde Agreement is said to allow for a maximum of 20 races, with a provision for 24 if the teams (unanimously) agree to it.
 
Liquid
Red Bull Ring is such a dull track.

Istanbul isn't as bad as people make out, I'd like to see Turkey come back.
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Hate to disagree*, but I actually really like the flow of the track, and the geography. The uphill turn one and the dive down into turn two are fantastic. I think the DRS/KERS equipped cars of today would work well on the A1 ring.


*Actually scratch that, I love disagreeing... :)
 
The A1 ring is very short and not particularly interesting, I hope we don't go back there although I'd have definitely said yes if they had stuck with plans of rebuilding it to the old Osterreichring layout, much better than the butchered A1 Ring version.

In other news thank christ this awful idea was rejected.
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/97011.html
 
SimonK
I'd have definitely said yes if they had stuck with plans of rebuilding it to the old Osterreichring layout
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They never planned to rebuild it. They planned to rebuild parts of it, with the finished product being a hybrid of the A1 Ring and Osterreichring:

A1_Red_Bull_Ring.svg


And before anyone points out that loop before Remus Kurve as a horrid example of circuit design, it was actually positioned right on top of a crest and was intended to be completely blind. It's modelled on the Nurburgring's Wehrseifen complex.
 
Am I the only one who thinks the A1 Ring wasn't actually that bad? What design changes were made when Red Bull took over ownership of the circuit?
 
Tom
Am I the only one who thinks the A1 Ring wasn't actually that bad? What design changes were made when Red Bull took over ownership of the circuit?
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Not much. Rebuilt grandstand and pit complex.

The Red Bull Ring and A1 Ring are one and the same. It was the Oesterreichring becoming the A1 ring that was the problem. A1 Ring was pretty boring, I thought, despite it being a blast in the games.
 
Tom
What design changes were made when Red Bull took over ownership of the circuit?
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The owners of the A1 Ring were going to build the circuit extensions I posted above when Formula 1 left Austria in a bid to get the championship back. They knocked down the main grandstand and pit buildings, and then production came to a screeching halt. I've heard that local environmental groups and/or garden-variety NIMBYs filed an injunction in the Austrian courts, trying to stop construction, and they deliberately timed it so that it wasn't filed until the owners had knocked down the key buildings, thereby preventing them from rebuilding and forcing the circuit to be abandoned. It lay that way for three years, until Dietrich Mateschitz and Red Bull acquired it. They promised to return it to an operational state, but didn't want to follow through on the upgrades.
 
m8h3r
Especially with the US GP being such a success. It actually made for some good racing. Even with how skeptical I was it was actually an impressive race for a tilke circuit. If it had flopped then maybe we would have empty seats, but I wouldn't think they'd have too much trouble filling it.
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Okay, let's assume that New York gets done on time. We would have three F1 ready tracks here in the United States that Bernie has at his disposal that he could pick any two to fill his calender, Austin, Indianapolis, and New York. Seeing as there hasn't been a F1 race in Indianapolis since 2007, and there likely never will be racing returning to the track, that leaves New York and Austin.
 
Sanji Himura
I also think that there will never be a Mexican Grand Prix as long as there is a potential US audience to be gained with the United States Grand Prix sitting right there in Austin. I think that someone brought up that up to 40% of attendees of this year's USGP race were from Mexico, if you take away that slice of the pie, there is three fifths of the fans that attended came from the US and other places, and that is a good start for the new track.

Regardless, Bernie made a stroke of genius this past season, and I hope it continues.
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That isn't fair nor convenient for Mexicans. Austin is over 1500 km away from Mexico City, with a security-laden border in between. To take full advantage of the Mexican craze for F1, you need a race in central Mexico where the bulk of the population lives and where Mexicans don't need to pay for a visa to attend. If the USGP depends on Mexicans to be successful, there should be a lot more money for Bernie to make within Mexico itself.
 
I think people are being too hard on the A1-Ring. Here's an example of the sort of racing the track could generate, which, given the era, suggests that an exciting race would be more than possible these days:
 
Liquid
Not much. Rebuilt grandstand and pit complex.

The Red Bull Ring and A1 Ring are one and the same. It was the Oesterreichring becoming the A1 ring that was the problem. A1 Ring was pretty boring, I thought, despite it being a blast in the games.
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Memories of '98's qualifying session on VHS are coming flooding back.
 
Always loved the track. First corner allows for some skill and errors to show, I like the lead up to the first corner, iconic in my mind. There's lots of inclines and drops, sweet little track.

I admit though its not attractive to gain more viewers and being in the damp forests goes against it. I love that setting but times move on.
 
chromatic9
Always loved the track. First corner allows for some skill and errors to show, I like the lead up to the first corner, iconic in my mind. There's lots of inclines and drops, sweet little track.

I admit though its not attractive to gain more viewers and being in the damp forests goes against it. I love that setting but times move on.
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I would take damp forest Red Bull Ring over ANY Tilkedrome with the exception of COTA because really its a Hellmund-drome as he sketched out out originally
But if any returning Euro GP were to be the next GP i personally would love to see the Dutch GP but that will never happen at least for a long time but I would like to see the Red Bull Ring and the Austrian GP get the nod
 
prisonermonkeys
No, the problem was that there was a string of fatalities at the Österreichring.
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Well of course (!) Same could be said of the Nuerburgring, before they added safety features like armco, and trained marshalls...

Oesterreichring produced good racing and was a good track, A1 Ring less so. That's the opinion I was imparting.

vetteman24
I would take damp forest Red Bull Ring over ANY Tilkedrome with the exception of COTA
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The A1 Ring is a Tilkedrome. Tilke was the one who redesigned the Oesterreichring.
 
vetteman24
if any returning Euro GP were to be the next GP i personally would love to see the Dutch GP but that will never happen at least for a long time
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There are no circuits in the Netherlands that could reasonably host Formula 1. Zandvoort is far too cramped to host a race (and too close to residential areas), while CART went to Assen a few years ago in a successful attempt to prove that the circuit is only good for bike racing.
 
Tired Tyres
Fixed for you. :sly:
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I think it's pretty unfair to accuse him of "butchering" it, since - as was the case with his work at Hockenheim - it's pretty obvious that he was working to a design brief. The owners clearly wanted him to retain as much of the shape of the old circuit as possible.
 
Tired Tyres
He designs the track. The Buck has to stop with him. There are no excuses for that.
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What would you have done instead if you were told that you had to redesign the circuit, but that you had to keep as much of the original shape as possible?
 
When Tilke has to redesign a track, he does well.
A1-Ring
Hockenheim
Fuji

All are still good tracks and were redesigned by Hermann Tilke. The Red Bull Ring is a good circuit and should host an F1 race.
 
Jimlaad43
When Tilke has to redesign a track, he does well.
A1-Ring
Hockenheim
Fuji

All are still good tracks and were redesigned by Hermann Tilke. The Red Bull Ring is a good circuit and should host an F1 race.
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But he's not as successful when building from scratch. Sepang and maybe Shanghai are successes.

Then again, look at any of the more popular racetracks and it's a lot more common for them to have evolved over time. It's hard to take a blank piece of land and create a purpose-built circuit which has the flows, kinks and indeed flaws of a more organic process.

Look at Brooklands, the first purpose built race track ever, it was just an irregular oval with some banking. Not as good as Sarthe or Donnington. Of course, we're talking very early 20th century so we shouldn't hold their simplicity against them.

m8h3r
Seriously? Hockenheim is horrible.
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Personally, I agree with this. Even though it was merely a test of engine endurance, I loved the old Hockenheimring.

And I hate the turn one complex at the Nuerburgring GP circuit. I thought it was a decent track with the old chicane.
 
Seconded on the old Hockenheimring. Its sad that the track is now gone (not even preserved, but completely gone). The fact that there was so limited of viewing areas though did it in.
 

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