The Front Wheel Drive *gasp* Appreciation Thread

[Bones Brigade]

The first great (maybe it was just good) car I had was a 350z. As an introduction to rear drive cars it was excellent. Despite every 18 year old who's ever driven one getting killed, the 287hp isn't a lot to handle if you don't try and show off. A Miata or S13 may be a better first RWD car, but the Z was engineered so that even without traction control (which my base model lacked) anyone could drive it. But it definitely wasn't dull or boring and even without trying to turn the streets into a race track I learned to respect, and appreciate a rear drive car. To be totally honest, I didn't want to go back to the "inferior" platforms ever again.

I won't bore you with the story of why I got rid of the Z, but in it's place now is an S60R. It has gobs of torque, handles well and is damn comfortable. But it's a 3700lb Volvo with a 95/5 AWD system. And that 5% to the rear goes up to just 30% when the front slips. Dynamically, it just doesn't feel right. When I picked up a Ford Focus I found it amusing that I had gone backwards from RWD to AWD back to FWD. What I found more ludicrous was how much I enjoyed the Focus and how it actually made me think less of the Z.

Even with friends and coworkers still in the world of VQs, and monthly dealership trips, I still am in love with my front wheel drive hatch. When I thought for sure I'd be picking up a Miata, the car it was supposed to replace was the Volvo, not the Ford. Now that my better half drives the Ford to work I find myself asking if it would be silly to have two of the same car.

The point is really this; FWDs reputation in a lot of places, this board included, is not deserved. Of course there are terrible front drivers, as there are terrible cars in general. But what's really so bad about a 2500lb, quick, nimble, tossable car? There aren't many options in the automotive world that tick all of those boxes. And some of the rear drive options' only ability that a FWD won't have is power on oversteer. And even that may be questionable if we're talking low powered cars. Yes, I would take a Miata over a Focus if I could choose just one to take to the track. And yes, I think things like the Mazdaspeed3 are...fun in a straight line, to be nice. But there are some epic performing front drivers that won't understeer until you're going faster than you would in some rear drivers. There are FWD cars that will spin you around with a simple lift off the throttle. There are some that have slalom speeds faster than super cars, steering more precise than modern sports cars, more grip than AWD. Potential be damned, there are some RWD that just don't have it. And at the end of the drive, what matters is how much fun you had, and not whether or not your cars layout has more potential as a track star.

 

[nick09]

I drove a 2001 Ford Escort for half of a year and I hated it. The 2.0L i4 engine(108HP) shook the steering wheel, glove compartment, and the seat next to me. The only two things I liked was the aftermarket speakers I added to the car and the car's ability to turn. Then one day the car stalled while I was driving out of my friends neighborhood and would not turn over on a winter day. Car got towed back to the house and the car ended up punching a hole in the cylinder when my dad touched the gas while testing it. A pity that it died only at 65k-some miles(The car cost about $2100).

After two weeks of car hunting I now have a 2003 Chevy Malibu. Great condition with 82K miles(one single owner) from a mom & pop dealer and the engine and brakes were fantastic as I drove the car out of the small dealership. This car came with the 3.1L V6 which is a FWD engine and produces 170HP! I still enjoy the softer suspension, more powerful, smooth(escort's engine was ruff as putting sandpaper on your face. Wait, sandpaper is softer than that engine!) and quieter engine compared to the escort, decent stock speaker system, more trunk space, nicer interior, and a lot more so I don't nitpick about everything. I normally get 24-25MPG with this car(40 minute highway trips is a normal for me) and up to 27MPG if I have long highway trips. I even surprised my friend that there is a hidden cup holder to the left of the steering wheel(I was amazed that he did not know it since he worked on a Malibu similar to mine).

Every different car has a bad point or a good point and it's up to user opinion at times what is good and what is not. I don't know about you but when I see a last gen-escort on the road I have the impulsive action of pointing at the car and shouting "Die!!". During the 2 week car hunt, me and my dad stayed away from 1st gen-Focus since the basic model had that same devil-like engine from the Escort. I knew for a fact that I was not gonna touch that engine again. I will be driving my Malibu for a long time before I even consider getting a newer car or I will have to due to gas prices in the future.

 

[ell470]

The S60R is a really nice car, takes off like a rocket (not in GT5 tho). So people don't like FWDs? I think they are superior, but here in Sweden we've got winter & snow from October 'til April & FWDs just manage to get around better when it's slippery outside.

ps. I've never driven a 4WD, but I think FWD cars are superior to RWD cars

 

[ozyran]

I've owned quite a few FWDs (wife own one now, too) and I've never had any complaints about them. In fact, my wife's little '11 Fiesta seems to handle better than my Mustang!

Still, though, one of the cars I owned that I absolutely loved was one of these:

Minus the front air dam. Man, I loved driving that thing. All except for the power Even with the 1.8 from the Rabbit GTi, it still wasn't the fastest thing on the road Handled like a go kart though, never seemed to have any trouble pulling through a turn.

 

[Perfect Balance]

That was a good opening post, but what exactly is this thread for?

 

[Shant J.]

I can certainly appreciate FWD. I drive a Honda CR-Z, and it handles better than one would expect.

 

[Keef]

That was a good opening post, but what exactly is this thread for?

Front wheel drive appreciation, duh.

 

[McLaren]

My Acura is a pretty good FWD car, imo. According to the few tests it was in, most thought it was a good handling sedan, esp. with the 6-speed's LSD. 1 compared it to a 3 Series, G37 sedan, & another car, and the final result was that if the Acura had been RWD, it would have been their choice overall because they preferred to price next to the 3.

Even with FWD, it's got enough power to surprise 350Z's & what not, as well. But, I think Acura realized it was still going to a sports luxury car & settled that FWD was sufficient enough as most people would never take full advantage of the RWD in this kind of car to begin with; most don't in the rival Nissans & Infinitis. Just not that kind of car.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

The appreciation I think people come to have with FWD cars is that it's fun to drive a slow car fast. Typically, the FWDs that people REALLY like tend to be lighter and less upscale. The Ford Focus in the OP is a perfect example.

By all means, it isn't a fast car. But, it's somewhat light weight (especially compared to an AWD semi-lux sedan) and since it isn't burdened with upscale electronic dampening, thick sound deadening, and 100s of pounds of "convenience", it's more of an analog experience that many 'sporty' cars seem to lack today.

Feeling like you're going fast is more enjoyable than going fast and feeling like you're going 55mph.

I don't think it's really a FWD vs. RWD thing; it's a weight & driving feel thing. Cheaper FWDs being both lighter & having less 'stuff' between the feel in the wheel & the tires is more of a coincidence than a design feature of a FWD layout. Minivans are not fun, yet they're FWD. A loaded Nissan Maxima isn't fun nor is a Chevy Malibu. Too saddled with weight...

But something like a Mazda3? Fun as hell. It's not fast, or particularly refined, just fun.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Front wheel drive appreciation, duh.

Oh...

Sooo.... I guess we post pictures and turn this into another "might as well be the import thread" thread?

 

[homeforsummer]

The appreciation I think people come to have with FWD cars is that it's fun to drive a slow car fast.

👍

That's exactly how I see it. The driven wheels and the outright power don't really matter to me that much as long as the car is fun. It just so happens that there are a lot of lowish-powered, great handling FWDs that are a lot of fun to punt along at perfectly legal speeds.

So yes, I do like FWDs, but then I've not driven any terrible ones yet. Thinking about it, I've not really driven any terrible cars yet of any type.

 

[Danoff]

Loved my RSX. The BMW is more refined, but the RSX really performed like a sports car in the corners. You had to be over-doing it to notice that it was FWD.

 

[nick09]

A loaded Nissan Maxima isn't fun nor is a Chevy Malibu. Too saddled with weight...

That is true but I've had more fun with the V6 engine and it is able to move it's own weight well on the highway. This is my car by the way:

This is not my car but the same engine:

This car is a heck lot easier to control and I had less to worry about. I can't help but complain if the ride is hard on my back(not to mention if the seat lacks cushion) and that ruins the experience for me.

 

[JCE]

I like the driving experience of my SVT Focus. WHEN IT ISN'T IN THE SHOP!!!

Thank you.

 

[Joey D]

I've come to rather like FWD, especially in modern cars since the components have been refined enough to make the car fun and very drivable. The MINI was a blast to drive when I had it and I could chuck in into the corners without a problem. The Focus I have now is similar to that but bigger and a lot more comfortable.

I'm sure if I wanted to race in anything other then autox I would probably be in the market for a RWD car, but with day to day use I'm fine without RWD. The Blazer was RWD and it just wasn't suited for where I live, in the snow it was a bitch to drive, especially on Michigan Lefts. I could have corrected it with snow tires obviously, but that was before I knew their benefits .

 

[Murcie_LP640]

As much as fellow Aussies would probably despise me for such a notion, I wouldn't actually mind having a FWD car as my upgrade from The Cereal Box.

Specifically though I've actually taken quite a liking to the V5 Volkswagen Bora and the Renault Clio 172 Cup which both happen to be in my price range. I've also driven my dad's Accord Euro (Acura TSX) on numerous occasions and, electric steering aside it was a pretty fun car to drive. I also test drove a Mazda 6 Lux Sports and came away surprised at how agile it is for a sedan.

I do love my Skyline and its RWD-ness but because it's from the late 80s it doesn't really have the engine, transmission nor the suspension to really exploit the chassis.

 

[Grayfox]

As much as fellow Aussies would probably despise me for such a notion, I wouldn't actually mind having a FWD car as my upgrade from The Cereal Box.

Why would other aussies think less of you for liking FFs?

I didn't hear of a rule that says Aussies must like FRs.

I like FFs and i do not like FRs(some i do like).

 

[Punknoodle]

I'd love a potent little FWD like a well set up Integra Type R. I'd love a powerful RWD like a Clubsport R8. And I love my current AWD GT-Four.

I love watching the V8 Supercars. I love watching the WRC and I love watching the likes of Production Class racing and Time Attack where there can be any of the above.

The theme here is that as long as it is a capable car that is plenty of fun to drive, sounds good and looks good, I can dig it.

This mentality is I suppose why I don't go for Holden / Ford. They are both gorgeous, fast and sound horn. So I go for my favorite teams.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I had a similar experience to the one Bones Brigade had. I used to own a Nissan 350z as well, and while it was a fun and great car, it was nowhere near as fun or great as my current car ('11 Renault Mégane RS 250, see my signature for info and pics). The Meg is simply superior in any aspect. And it understeers less than my Z did. It's nothing to be ashamed of at the track either, putting many RWD/AWD based cars with around the same HP/weight to shame. I would pick it an FWD like this over many, many RWD/AWD cars.

Like mentioned above: judge a car on the complete package, not just the layout or the label on the hood. You could be surprised in a very pleasant way. 👍

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Most fun FF I've driven: Honda Civic EE.. or was it EH.. 3-door hatchback. I never found the rev limiter, it has nice, snappy transmission, perky little 1.3l carb engine and suspension that made it feel like a go kart.

Most dreadful FF I've driven: Lada Samara. Do I even need to tell why..? *shudder*

 

[Punknoodle]

Most fun FF I've driven: Honda Civic EE.. or was it EH.. 3-door hatchback. I never found the rev limiter, it has nice, snappy transmission, perky little 1.3l carb engine and suspension that made it feel like a go kart.

Most dreadful FF I've driven: Lada Samara. Do I even need to tell why..? *shudder*

I think I know why you never found limiter on that carby'd engine I don't think a large rock on the accelerator with the thing in neutral could find the limiter... Unless you class valve bounce as a limiter I get the jist tho

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Indeed. Fun little bugger, that car. I can't help but wonder how high that thing did rev.. And, uh, it wasn't my car, but family friends. ^_^;

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Why would other aussies think less of you for liking FFs?

Because many people down here swear by Falcodores and rear-wheel-drive, and scoff at anything else. Never mind that 99% of them are bogans and our AWD WRX was smoking them left right and centre, but yeah that's the reason why.

And don't even get me started on someone asking me whether I "go for" Ford and Holden and my immediate reaction is "depends" or "I dunno, I haven't watched V8 Supercars in several years." **** really goes down when I say "Nissan."

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

**** really goes down when I say "Nissan."

They're still butt hurt over R32's dominance, aren't they..

 

[stumpydino]

I consider size before layout, but it does depend on overall quality of the car. really not a fan of understeer, big and fwd doesn't work for me, with regards to getting any enjoyment anyway small and fwd seems to be a good recipe for fun though

 

[MatskiMonk]

I don't much like the FWD cars I've driven, power under steer is not as much fun as power over steer in my opinion... but I have had good times in FWD cars, my first car was a Peugeot 106, and with a combination of lift-off oversteer, yanking the handbrake, and wet tarmac it was possible to have some fun.

 

[niky]

Power understeer just means that you're going to be able to keep the throttle floored longer and in more situations than otherwise. That's why all-wheel drive cars are so much fun on the highway... no upsetting torque pushing you in directions you don't want to go.

Also, scandinavian flick > power understeer.

I don't think it's really a FWD vs. RWD thing; it's a weight & driving feel thing. Cheaper FWDs being both lighter & having less 'stuff' between the feel in the wheel & the tires is more of a coincidence than a design feature of a FWD layout.

It's not just that, though. With most rear-wheel drive cars more powerful than a Miata (and even some Miatas), you have to exercise some care when coming out of a corner. A good front-driver, you can take by the scruff of the neck, throw in with abandon, and balance on the slide out with the throttle down. Sure, you can do it in a good rear-driver, too... but that extra nervousness on-throttle presents a psychological "don't stuff it" barrier that you have to work around. A good front-driver, though, you can find the handling envelope within just a lap or two.

I do like a good rear-driver... but I also like good front-drivers and all-wheel drive cars... hell... I like good cars, in general, regardless of drivetrain layout.

 

[hemisport15]

The appreciation I think people come to have with FWD cars is that it's fun to drive a slow car fast.

I also completely agree with this. My Corrado is by all means not fast, but I have so much fun throwing it around on the backroads near my house. Everything about the car makes it that much more fun; the sound, the weight of the steering, and even the overly stiff suspension... it completely overshadows the fact that I picked one of the most unreliable cars as my first car/daily driver.

 

[JacoJa]

FWD cars are smegging awesome! I'm currently the proud owner of Five FF's (Celica, Celica, Celica, Sera, Camry), and four of those are very fun to drive. I'm never travelling fast enough on public roads to develop understeer, so I don't quite fully understand the point of a RWD car... unless I'm on a race track or very poor driving conditions, such as snow. Two things I don't need to worry about.

Anyhow. I enjoy a car which understeers. 👍

 

[MatskiMonk]

FWD cars are smegging awesome! I'm currently the proud owner of Five FF's (Celica, Celica, Celica, Sera, Camry), and four of those are very fun to drive. I'm never travelling fast enough on public roads to develop understeer, so I don't quite fully understand the point of a RWD car... unless I'm on a race track or very poor driving conditions, such as snow. Two things I don't need to worry about.

Anyhow. I enjoy a car which understeers. 👍

Any car will understeer if you're asking too much of the front tyres, whether FWD, RWD, or AWD, the differences become more apparent when the power is applied, and this does not necessarily equate to speed. At <25mph the Toyota Paseo I have the misfortune to drive sometimes, will wash out completely if a little too much power is applied during cornering (for example on a roundabout). But it's a slide that's very easy to recover, where as if too much power is applied to my 328 when cornering the nose will push, but then the back end will slide around faster, turning understeer in to oversteer, again speed is not required - just momentum and/or power. This type of slide is harder to recover from has it requires more precise steering input to control/recover. And ultimately I think maybe younger/less experienced drivers get the appeal of FWD because it makes hooning around beyond the limits more accessible and less dangerous.

It depends a lot on the car and the drivers preference, at the end of the day it's about driver enjoyment, not outright power delivery or lateral G's.