The Future of Drifting

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Der Alta

Der Alta

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Yes, someone will note that this belongs in the Opinions forum and it will get there.

It's lulled a bit, but still under the surface. I just need to post my thoughts on it.

I'm seeing a good amount of anti-drifter sentiment around here and it's been irritating me. Why are people so against the drifting culture? What is the reason that the drifters who come here get virtually spit on whenever they come out of the drifting forum?

This attitude is not helping the experience nor is it moving the sport forward.

I have to ask how many of you have ever used a snowboard? How many of you have ever been skiing?

I have. In fact, I still do both. Some days I ski, some days I snowboard. I grew up in Southern Vermont, and was a skier when snowboarding was just coming into being. The resentment that many skiers had towards snowboarding was simply amazing. I saw snowboarders get jumped in a parking lot and nearly hospitalized. Skiers did not want snowboarders on their mountain. I saw snowboarders get run off trails and forced into the woods. I saw skiers fly by snowboarders and swing a ski pole at them. The outright hatred that some skiers bore towards snowboarders was astounding. It reached the point where some mountains evicted snowboarders and wouldn't allow them on the mountain. Other mountains segregated the snowboarders to a few trails.

Then someone had the great idea of building a halfpipe for the snowboarders and restricting it to the just snowboarders. The beatings then changed. I would see a skier slip into the half pipe and grind a few edges off the top. There'd be snowboarders at the bottom of the pipe waiting to beat the crap out of the skier. Then someone got the bright idea of running amuck with a halfpipe maker. He made jumps and ¼ pipes, and all sorts of obstacles. Thus the park was born. Now skiers were really jealous. All these cool obstacles and they were restricted from using it.

In that time, snowboarders had grown in numbers to reach a point where any mountain that denied them, was nailing their coffin shut. It was evolving into a full fledged sport.

And from what? Someone had taken a double wide ski, attached binding sideways instead of facing forward, then went swooping down a mountain, carving long smooth turns in a way that hadn't been done before. From a small idea, a world wide Olympic sport had been borne.

The Olympic sport is another comparison. What do skiers do in the Olympics that Snowboarders don't? Nothing. The skiers will always be faster down a mountain. It's the inherent design that makes it so. The aerial aspects of each are equal. So the real distinction is how fast you get from point A to point B. The resentment has subsided into respect for each individual sport. Both see growth and interaction and evolution. Each is its own, and only similar because of where it's done. On a snow covered mountain.

Much can be said for drifting and Racing. After all, track racing is getting from point A to point B as fast as you can. Drifting is still point A to Point B but done with a different intention and style. Can a Half pipe competition in snowboarding be judged the same way a Giant Slalom race can?

The biggest problem that I see is related to attitude. Much like Snowboarding in it's fledgling years, Drifting will have it's share of detractors. It always will, and it's these people that can't see it as anything more than "some stupid kid burning his tires up taking a corner." It's only the attitude of the drifter that can change that.

Am I saying be the bigger man and let the drifters do what they want? No, because the attitude apparent in a majority of drifters is the same that was apparent in the early snowboarders. "I'm here, it's your problem to deal with it" Which is the completely wrong attitude to have.

Racers have to realize that drifting isn't going to fade away, and drifters have to realize the speed of acceptance into the motor sport world will progress faster with a better attitude. Do racers have to accept it? No. Do they have to respect it? Yes, because it is a sport and will evolve into a life of its own. Do drifters have to stay cordoned off in their area? No, because drifting will become a sport of its own and develop its own followers. But the drifters that strut around the show will be given a reception based on their attitude and it's only their attitude that will hinder their progression.

Thoughts?

AO
 
I've got no problem with drifting, in fact that's basically all I do on GT3 anymore, because it's fun.

The only drifters I have a problem with is the ones who's IQ rivals that of a rock. I think that's one of the problems most people on here have, and I can't really blame them.

It hurts my eyes and brain to try to read sentences that are 60% abbreviations, alternating caps, random numbers thrown in instead of letters, or have no sentence structure whatsoever.

Other than the above complaints, drifters are just fine with me.
 
I didn't think people still bashed them. I don't care if they do. I've gotten it all out of my system.

I doubt their marginalization has as much to do with their driving style as it does their immaturity and illiteracy. It's just one of those true stereotypes, most drifters are idiots. Anyone who can read will agree.

The only thing that I think is absolutely unacceptable is the notion of drifting real cars on public roads, same a street racing. But the obvious lack of intelligence on the part of the average drift forum poster leads me to believe they would be stupid enough to do this. In fact, they say they do, brag about it, and then defend it.
 
Drifters are taking gt3 to something new. It's like skateboarders on the street. They take somthing not intended to skate and then are able to do tricks on it, use it as an obstacle. That's what drifters do with the courses in gt3, using creativity to make turns connect into each other and all this other jumbo mumbo. This only applies to the game. Real life, i don't really care about drifters doing it in public roads, as long as noones killed.
 
Originally posted by azndrifter318
Drifters are taking gt3 to something new. It's like skateboarders on the street. They take somthing not intended to skate and then are able to do tricks on it, use it as an obstacle. That's what drifters do with the courses in gt3, using creativity to make turns connect into each other and all this other jumbo mumbo. This only applies to the game. Real life, i don't really care about drifters doing it in public roads, as long as noones killed.
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Yeah, and I have no problem with kids playing with guns, as long as no one is killed.
 
Originally posted by Der Alta
Much can be said for drifting and Racing. After all, track racing is getting from point A to point B as fast as you can. Drifting is still point A to Point B but done with a different intention and style. Can a Half pipe competition in snowboarding be judged the same way a Giant Slalom race can?
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No, it can't, and herein lies my ultimate disinterest in capital-D Drifting. Like figure skating versus speed skating, it's a triumph of style over substance. I like things that can be measured in absolute, objective numbers, not things that are judged by subjective "style points". That runs entirely counter to what I like, what I enjoy, and what I'm interested in. Subjectivity opens the door wide and invites in politics, playing to the judges, trendiness, and fashion - what a waste of time! Objectivity cuts to the bone: you got around the cones 0.137" faster than your opponent, so you win. Period.

Should I respect that other people are interested in drifting? Yes. Does that mean I have to respect drifting itself? No.

I respect the JGTC drivers that use drifting as a way to relax and goof off, while keeping their car-control skills sharp, because I respect what they can do with those skills. I don't respect someone who mistakes the surface appearance for the significance that lies beneath the surface, and lionizes a culture/hobby/attitude into something much much more than it will ever be.

I respect the drifters who can carry on an intelligent conversation, and who acknowledge that it is pointless fun, and who do not try to inflate drifting into something it is not. I have utter disdain for the other varieties. For that matter, I don't respect race drivers who can't carry on an intelligent conversation, either.

As you say, AO, the burden is on the new kids to earn respect. If it were not for drifters who claim that drifting is the best thing ever, I would never claim that racing is better.
 
drift for me is just a way to relax. i race with grip, but the drifting just...makes you feel...i can't think of the right word (elated?). it's true...alot of the people in the drift forum are idiots...but then, there are idiots scattered all over the forum, rite? That's why i avoid the drift forum unless i need tips on my technique. i'd go to tracks to practise drift but never on streets. Even then, i couldn't go on a track to drift because i'll never have the money for a good fr car and to top that, it's like $800 for a few hours at the nearest track to toronto.

I respect both styles but people have got to stop saying drift is the ONLY style of racing. then there's the neverending arguement between the drifters on the topic of "ff drift" aka "ass drag". I'm still not very good @ drift, but there ARE rare corners where drift does give better exit speeds, but i can't seem to find them.
 
I think that proper drifting is an extremely impressive form of car control, especially when it's done in something that it shouldn't be, like a Bentley Continental.

At the moment, it strikes me that it's significant because it's different, and this is the point that Der Alta gets across in his excellent snowboard analogy. At the time, snowboarders weren't accepted by skiers, but they looked down their noses at the skiers.

A couple of threads at GTP have recently investigated the sociological phenomenon of ingroup/outgroup behaviour. The feeling is that the masses are wrong because they show no individuality. But where is the individualism in jumping to the "new big thing"? It's just bandwagoneering, and I have to say that I think the Dr1Ft1nG DOO0000DDDZZZZZ are doing just that when they're aggressively promoting themselves.

I also rather suspect that the majority of the most vocal advocates of drifting have only ever had their PlayStations sideways, but that is difficult to back up empirically.

What I have seen are a number of drifting videos where people in the most awful cars (see paragraph 1) are trying (and generally failing) to initiate and then hold impressive slides. They seem to lack any perception of the balletic quality that is required of an impressive drift.

But I think it's a fad that will calm down, and that will allow the sport to mature.
 
This is a post on my thoughts about the future of drifting. Or could you not manage to read the entire post?

I'd like to know what your thoughts on the future of drifting and what it's going to take to get it there. Do you see any animosity between drifters and racers? Why does that animosity exist? Only a few drifters have posted here, and they've not done much to show what the future has to offer the world of motor sports.

AO
 
I'm a big fan of drifting, but not really of drift competitions. Actually, that goes for almost any sport that I'm a fan of that involves judges of any kind, example: Freestyle Motocross, Snowboarding, Skateboarding etc. Any time you add judges to a sport, you lose the "free" nature of that sport.
I drift in GT3 because it's fun and when I find myself a nice cheap rwd car, I'll drift in RL for the same reason (not on public roads though :) ). Isn't that why people race, because it's fun? That's why I do it, and yet people still ask all the time "What's the point of drifting?"
As for the future of drifting..it's unknown. I think it will get more and more popular in the US for a while until the ricers find something else to dump their money into. Then it will be left to the true fans. (as it should be)

I just get annoyed everytime I see negative comments about drifting that are based entirely on the grammar skills of certain members of a video game message board.


-Mark
 
Originally posted by MaN-i-CaN-dRiFt
Huh I dont get it What is this...???
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Here we have a good example of the most common inteligence level of the average drifter. However there are many drifters like myself that use grip racing as a base for drifting, and research to discover more about the sport, before posting useless topics. I think there are going to be stupid people in any forum, and all we can do is try to weed them out. We all know who the ignorant people on this site are, so if one of these people says something degrading, or just ignorant to another member, instead of talking down to them, tell them what they have done wrong and how they can go about being a better member. As for the future of drifting, I agree that it will just keep gaining momentum until it is in the same place as snowboarding is now. Furthermore, this Drift versus Grip debate has got to stop. They are completely different styles of getting around the track, and cannot be compared. Neither is better than the other, they are just different.

Thankyou for listening. ;)
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
Dis 's da only ting I don' like 'bout drftrs.... I cnt evr cmprhnd w't their trying to say......
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I agree, but there are alot of memebrs that do actually type with proper grammar, and for the most part, proper spelling. But in my opinion, drifters get a bad wrap. I admit, its the drifters that type such as, "drft'in iz coller then grap. grap is ghei" thats why drifters get a horrible wrap. You people are seeming acting like drifters dont play GT3 correctly. Its not that we dont play correctly, its just that most of us dont like gripping. Its not that we arent good at it, we just dont like it. (Speaking for myself.) What do you want drifters to do to get respect? Need one of them to get into this "Club 229" stuff? If thats what it takes, expect a screenshot from me with 100% on day 229. I can post one..in..say..8 days. If that. Later.
 
But would you expect me to create a "Drifter's Section" in Club 229?

No - because segregation is ridiculous. Do you play GT3? Then you are a GT3 player. Do I care if you grip, or drift, or do something between the two, or handbrake turn over the line, or play cone hockey? No - and it's this reason I'm fundamentally against the Drifter's Forum existing at all - unless there's also a "Handbrake Turn Over The Line" forum, and a "Cone Hockey" forum, and so on and so forth.

The perception that the drifting community exclusively is made up of pEePl HoO cAnT bE BoThAd UsEiNg EnGliSh, with a minority of "normal" people is a fallacy - just read most of the threads in the GT3 forum. A good half are posted by people who not only can't type, but seemingly can't read either and just post any old random tripe that falls into their tiny minds. And I'm sure our recent friend buzbo didn't post in the Drifters' Forum, in any of his three (and counting) incarnations, and he's easily one of the biggest bell-ends the site has ever had. Well, in my memory anyway :D The proportion of numpties to at least partially-sane people is the same in the Drifters' Forum as it is in the main GT3 Forum.


I am curious though why people seem anxious to segregate themselves - they are drifters, they will post in the drifting forum, come what may. Perhaps there's a perception from the other GT3ers that "drifters" think they're better than them?

And I agree with neon_duke.
 
Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
Dis 's da only ting I don' like 'bout drftrs.... I cnt evr cmprhnd w't their trying to say......
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Perhaps if you were to take a moment to direct your attention to somewhere other than your own ego, you will find that stereotyping entire groups of people generally doesn't go very far in making your point. The fact of the matter is that most people smart enough to type well aren't willing to put up with the bull**** that you guys fling our way, and that's why it's mostly the kiddies who are looking to prove themselves that stick around and put up with it. So you see, it could be said that the poor grammar on the drift forum here is as much a result of abuse from grip fans as it is of the stupidity of GT3 "drifters."

Anyway, as for my thoughts on the subject, there are two different kinds of drifters in GT3, and only one of these two types exists in real life, and I think this is the basis for the problem. In real life drifters don't care about speed, don't care about what other people think, they are only trying to improve their skill. We do it for ourselves, not for you. In GT3, there is another type, which is the kind of person who knows very little but tries to prove he knows a lot. These are the types that swarm the forums, and these are the type that give the rest of us a bad name, and it is you who lowers yourself to their level by pinning that bad name to the rest of us. I stay in the GT3 Drifting forum and generally don't participate in outside discussions, because nobody takes me seriously simply because I'm a drifter. Why should I go out of my way to prove myself to you guys? I've no reason. I've nothing but respect for the grip scene, and that will never change, but if drifting is never accepted then so be it. Doesn't change a thing.
 
In no way am I asking you to justify anything. I'm all for drifting becoming a sport into and of itself. Whiel some will argue it's use and non-use, the ral fact is that it's here and it's emerging as a fledgling sport.

What I would like to see is the drifters that know what the sport is like and what needs to happen to bring it into the ranks of motor sports. There are 5 drifters that just posted here, that I would like to see more of. You five are the reason why drifting will become more than a couple of kids playing around in teh city streets. It's people similar to the image portrayed by "Man can I drift" that will continually detract from the sports acceptance.

You each need to step up and take part in guiding the rest of the drifters towards a better position in the motor sports world. I'm not singling you 5 out, just going forward on what I have here at hand.

What do you think needs to be done to move drifting from a backyard sport into mainstream?

[edit]You guys post too fast.

Pergatory and others, this is exactly what I was looking for. Drifters who can speak clearly, and precisely, as well as reason behind what you are saying. I'd like to see the drifters participate on a regular occasion in more discussions around GTP. racers have't excluded Pupik just because he's stuck on GT2. Or Vat_man because he never plays GT3 anymore. And I don't think that Mike Rotch has made a post in the GT3 forum. In fact I don't think Mike ended up at GTPlaner because of Gran Turismo. I for one have never played GT1 or GT2.

I believe that Drifting will become a full blown motor sport. The judging will determine the toughest possible aspect. But just like they judge Bull riding, gymnatics, and Ice skating it will take serious people to put together and enforce a set of rules on how's it is graded.

Would you guys be willing to work with someone to get a Drifters OLR section with rules and grading laid out?

AO
 
Originally posted by Famine
I am curious though why people seem anxious to segregate themselves - they are drifters, they will post in the drifting forum, come what may. Perhaps there's a perception from the other GT3ers that "drifters" think they're better than them?
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I don't know about others, but I think the drifter forum is a good thing. I agree that ultimately drifters should be participating in all forums, but there are many things that apply to drifting that don't apply to other things and so that's why I think it should be separated. Just for ease of browsing. If there is a large enough scene for handbraking and cone hockey stuff, then they should also get their own forums. That's just my opinion, anyway.
 
The sad fact of the matter is, Pergatory, there aren't quite as many members there who are able to intelligently express themselves like you or I, because they can't be half-assed to bother typing something out. After all, why should THEY have to put in an effort so WE don't have to?

Heh... but really, when the majority of users in a particular clique fit the bill of a certain description, there's nothing you can really do about it, other than watch your favourite sport/form of driving/whatever become swamped by idiots with names taking variations on things like: takAE86/AE86fujywara/akina86takumi/takumihachiroku/ae86-legend/ae86god/MaN-i-CaN-dRiFt (which should have it's own category, as I'm noticing his notoriety is picking up for being retarded). All you can do, at most, is try to ban the idiot who goes one step too far outside of the rules, and close all the repeating topics that always keep popping up.

Now, that being said, as Der Alta put forth, if we can make a Drifters OLR forum with those rules and guidelines out, I'd be willing to put in the hard effort to try and keep it that way. Though there's, I suspect, very little I can do.
 
I agree with Pergatory. The drifters forum, in my eyes, is a great thing. Some of the morons that post in the Drifters forum are not great. People coming into threads and saying such things as, "Half of you can't drift. You all suck." are not nessecary, but yet it doesnt seem to be taken care of. I know mods cant moderate everything, but I dont see why drifting has its own disscusion when stupid posts like the one mentioned above go un noticed and, frankly, uncared for.
 
Originally posted by XzifT
I know mods cant moderate everything, but I dont see why drifting has its own disscusion when stupid posts like the one mentioned above go un noticed and, frankly, uncared for.
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This mod, among others, is intersted in helping to improve the situation. I admit I do not patrol the Drifters' board too closely, but if a user is causing trouble there, please do not hesitate to PM me if you see I am online, or use the "Report To Moderators" button as required.
 
I'll keep that in mind. It's not like I expect mods to moderate the drifters forum (sorry if I say form, its just what comes to mind. :lol: ) super close, but it is the idiots that frequently post there that make it so that threads have to be posted about it, such as this one. I'm in no way saying this thread is useless, I've found it helpful for seeing others views, but to me it seels like drifters ARE being slightly 'profiled' if you will. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm mostly sure that if I ever went into something besides the drifters forum and said something like, "I think I can beat that time" or something to that effect, that I wouldn't be taken seriously. Thats all I ask from anyone at GTP is to take drifters seriously. I know the drifters forum has a huge amount of rambling idiots, but there are alot of drifters that know just as much as any other member here. Just my 2 cents.
 
Crap! This topic again.

I'll just say one thing. The reason most people dislike drifters is the way they speak.

Ex: loL Driftin R@ck$!!!111

Just because they write this way doesnt mean they are unintelligent. they just cant type or they want to sound cool.

Which is cool.

The internet has no rules(and neither does this site) on how they can type or express themselves. Im shocked at how many of you believe in perfect grammer over the internet. many want to shorten their words when typing, so they say lol, brb, kewl, or other things.


Also for those who cant respect or hate drifting.....


Deal With It, its going to get more popular as time goes on.
 
Originally posted by askia47
The internet has no rules(and neither does this site) on how they can type or express themselves. Im shocked at how many of you believe in perfect grammer over the internet. many want to shorten their words when typing, so they say lol, brb, kewl, or other things.
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Actually, this site have had set rules reagrding this exact topic. I suggest you review the Acceptable Use Policy and the Terms of Service (in particular bullet #3). You agreed to both of these when you registered here at GTP.
Deal With It, its going to get more popular as time goes on.
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I know this and I demostrated that with my analogy to Snowboarding. What I'd like to do is bring this a step further into GTPlanet. I don't want you all to step in unision with the other racers, but rather become a more incorporated part of GTP.

I think that your last statement is part of the problem. You tell us to Deal with your attitude. Yet you wish to gain acceptance as a legitimate piece of the motor sport or gaming world. You have no respect for others that came before you and you've no care for what is already here. That's not a way to further your cause or sport.

Thought out and supportively contrived answers to questions we all pose is a way to show that you are more than just a drifter. It shows you look forward to participating in the entire site.

AO
 
I see what you're saying now. I wasnt 100% sure, but I get it now. :lol: And I agree. GTP should be more "all involved". Insted of just having these people over and these people over here, we should mix a tad.
 
Originally posted by Der Alta
Actually, this site have had set rules reagrding this exact topic. I suggest you review the Acceptable Use Policy and the Terms of Service (in particular bullet #3). You agreed to both of these when you registered here at GTP.

I know this and I demostrated that with my analogy to Snowboarding. What I'd like to do is bring this a step further into GTPlanet. I don't want you all to step in unision with the other racers, but rather become a more incorporated part of GTP.

I think that your last statement is part of the problem. You tell us to Deal with your attitude. Yet you wish to gain acceptance as a legitimate piece of the motor sport or gaming world. You have no respect for others that came before you and you've no care for what is already here. That's not a way to further your cause or sport.

Thought out and supportively contrived answers to questions we all pose is a way to show that you are more than just a drifter. It shows you look forward to participating in the entire site.

AO
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Der Alta i should have been more clear. I mean how people TYPE

like- loL Driftin R@ck$!!!111

I didnt mean what they say when they type, i mean the style they type in.
 

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